28th January / Somewhere in High Security Space,

Greetings folks! Today the player base has received official clarification regarding whether or not the mechanic known as “Hyperdunking” is an acceptable use of the Eve Online mechanics.

For people just catching up on this, in an article earlier this week we reported on this mechanic and raised an open ended question as to it’s legitimacy in the game pending further clarification. CCP Falcon had the following to say via the official forums.

CCP Falcon: Since the introduction of the Bowhead freighter, we’ve become aware of a tactic that has been introduced which has become known as “Hyperdunking”. This involves leaving a grid where a criminal action occurs to draw away CONCORD and reshipping to continue shooting at a target. There’s been much discussion among members of the community regarding this tactic, and whether or not it is considered legitimate gameplay.

After meeting with members of the game design and customer support teams and discussing this in depth, we have come to the consensus that due to the fact no rules are being broken and any ship that is involved in a criminal act is being destroyed by CONCORD as intended, that this tactic is simply an unintended but legitimate use of new game mechanics, and is not in breach of the rules. Tactics similar to this have been used with previous hulls before the Bowhead was introduced, and have been considered perfectly legitimate in the past.

With this in mind, at this time we do not consider this tactic to be in breach of the game rules, and as such our customer support team will not be offering reimbursements for hulls lost in this manner.

Players are also reminded that if someone is criminally flagged, they are fair game to be attacked in self-defense. Feel free to use this to your advantage.

TL;DR: It’s legit.

Previously we had refrained from commenting on the particulars of the actual mechanic pending CCP’s word on the matter. Now that this has been received we are happy to publish the steps players are taking to achieve this and you may see why there was some doubt as to its legitimacy.

  • A player prepares 8 fitted catalysts in space around the target, and around 8 shuttles in a nearby safespot
  • The player then engages the target, allowing concord to destroy their ship
  • Having been relegated to a Capsule, the player warps to their safe where the shuttles are waiting
  • Boarding a shuttle attracts the attention of Concord, who move over to the safe spot to kill the capsuleers shuttle
  • With concord now off the field again, the player returns to the Catalysts, boards one and resumes his attack
  • This process is repeated until the target has been destroyed

truckers
Freighters in High Sec: Probably just about as safe as it always has been to be honest.

So there you have it folks. Undoubtedly there will be some mixed feelings regarding this, and interestingly further clarification from CCP Falcon that the introduction of the new Crimewatch system in the Retribution expansion essentially voided a previous ruling which meant avoiding concord was a bannable offence.

CCP Falcon: That ruling is from three years ago, before the release of Retribution and before the introduction of the new Crimewatch system.

Therefore, it’s no longer applicable, and the current ruling overrides it.

Thanks to CCP Falcon for the clarification and we’ll look forward to some lovely space explosions! I think as long as you don’t fall asleep at your keyboard you may just make it through this one.

  • Owen Wells

    Whiney threadnaught incoming in 3…2…1

  • Deifirtep

    Freighters may need a logi escort now.

    • Cloora

      Yeah escorting freighters carrying valuable cargo, who would have thought such a thing!

  • Bump…

    this still only works in teams. the time it takes to warp off, fit shuttle, warp back, fit dps ship should be more than it would take a bowhead w/ mwd to warp to anything remotely in front of them. I have zero issue w/ good ganks. My only problem is having a secondary toon on field bumping the bowhead out of alignment with impunity. Would like to see this addressed (suspect flag, etc.).

  • Spaceman Spiff

    It is a cheap mechanic when used right can destroy anything. It’s obvious to anyone in some systems when ganks are going to happen, but crime prevention is impossible. Concord is better at protecting the criminals then their targets. It’s a shame.

    • Ordun

      The targets shouldnt be protected any more than they already are if they arnt willing to take steps to prevent such ganks. Crime prevention impossible? Technically yes, but that doesnt mean you cant survive when you are attacked. If you re without an mwd or proper alignment mods/rigs, or have no support, you only have yourself to blame. The gankers were better prepared and you have no right to keep your ship

      • best_burek

        Just wondering how you would protect a Freighter against constant bumping since you can’t target the bumper? I don’t think any prop mods will help you. I agree the bumping is a valid mechanic but it should be limited to a certain time limit or just have bumping in high sec be an aggressive maneuver punishable by Concord. If you want to gank and use bump mechanic it should cost you a bit. Problem solved.

        • Bantor

          Here’s the solution. You have something popping the catalysts. Eventually the bumper will give up and let you go. Because he’s not going to sit there and just keep on trying to gank something that he can’t gank. That’s how you deal with constant bumping. You beat his method to gank you. HTFU.

          • teamnodaughters

            OH yeah just call up some friends to escort someone for free and start popping catalyst like there isn’t a Concord to blow him away the moment he shoots a non-flashy red.

            Newsflash, you can bump someone and not get a flashy red, hence they cannot be legally shot

          • Bantor

            Okay, Let’s try this.
            1. Get your alt (you do have one right?) to Lock the catalysts (But don’t shoot them) to prevent him from boarding them.
            2. If he boards one, shoot that one!
            3. If he attempts to board a catalyst that he can’t board (because you’ve got it locked up) Shoot the pod!

            If you do this long enough, the permabumper will stop, and let you on your way, because we all know you’re not flying with something like 160B isk in your cargo, right?

            RIGHT???

            Eventually the Hyperdunker will give up and go for a new target.

          • Thatguy

            you realize locking doesnt work anymore?

    • Marcos Sarrafinho

      since when the CONCORD protect? if we think clearly you see that it does not serve much from the beginning, think about it> to have war you pay a fee “bribes” for the CONCORD so they will not interfere, want a corporation or institution worse than this?

    • Ming Tso

      Right. “CCP, They destroyed my Occator! Hyperdunking is a MENACE I tell you! A MENACE!”

  • Seraph IX Basarab

    “The carebear hordes…their tears will block out the sun!’

    “Then we shall smugpost in the shade!”

  • Razordreamz

    I’m surprised thought for sure they would ban it. Thinking on it though it does make sense I suppose. So #1 Never Autopilot, #2 Always have friends on standby. Seems reasonable.

  • Sorry

    Isn’t the real problem the bumping as it’s always been?

  • Silver Lining

    The upside to this green light is there should be a lot more free catalysts hanging around hi sec!

  • IKnowBetterThanYou

    If you agree that its legal then make freighters beeing able to tank them up with hull mods decently and allow to fit large/cap local hull repairers as well as a cloak you stupid piece of shit CCP.
    I have no problem with ships beeing a target who can either tank & active rep up or shot back if they want but freighters / jf are just a bad joke with the bump mechanics and stuff like the hypershit.
    Serious how retarded are you? Its same as first CCP deney titan pos bowl & titan mass cyno bump havent you learnd anything at all?

    • Codo

      A ship that cant tank or shoot back roaming solo through high sec should be safe? youre playing the wrong game

      • Tiago D’Agostini

        Anyone that think that people should be safe in high sec does not get the game concept. But. I think the catalysis itself is a problem because it has too high dps with too low cost and makes ganking TOO cheap. Effectively making concord retribution pointless.

        • nonsense

          Before it was trashers. the current highest dps dessi – or if you nerf them bc or whatever – will always be the “op” one and be used.

  • Elite Noob

    The problem is not the ganking method – it’s the second toon bumping your freighter to kingdom come! The tears are coming from the fact that many freighters can tank a catalyst or two, but if the dude has eight and his friend keeps bumping you out of alignment continuously – he will get to use all 8 of them and you will die no matter how much tank you fit. If CCP doesn’t do something about that first, soon there will be no more freighters around.

    • autz bittervet

      What is CCP actual stance on bumping…basically how long can someone bump your ship until its considered harassment or even a ‘stuck in space’? I have no problems with ganking, let alone bumping, we all try to bump people away from gates/stations/POS shields, its a valid game mechanic and I have no problem at all with it. But when does that valid game mechanic turn into a game stopping exploit which the victim has noway to stop it…is it ok to continually bump someone DT to DT?…if this was the case I dont think alot of people would be playing eve. If this info is somewhere..a link be great.

      • Tiago D’Agostini

        If you are gankign with a purpose.. for example.. hold you there until your friends that are at war with the freighter corp arrive and kill it, then youcan do it as long as it is needed. But if you start following a specific person and bumpign nonstop whatever he tries to undock even when he tries to go to other region etc.. then youmight be warned by GMs.

        • autz bittervet

          u say… “do as along as you want” basically this is harassment imo…someone is restricting you to ‘play the game’..you are basically stuck in space, and basically one guy (the aggressor) has aggressed you, you cant simply log off to try and be ‘unstuck’. Like I said…its a valid game mechanic, but i think there should be a time limit..(or something equivalent) to limit this what imo is basically an exploit. You can could argue a time frame…I would say 3-4min??..5 minutes the max…if the gankers (whoever) cant get the job done in that time..you they shouldn’t be able to complete it (or just punished in the process).

          I thought CCP cracked downed on this anyway a few years ago? (poor miners constantly bumped out of asteroids belts for hours without being able to warp). But with your comments..apparently not…esp now with the anchor rigs.

          If I ever get hit by the same exploits..i’ll give the ganker a few good minutes to kill me..if he fails..it will be a ‘stuck in space” petition..followed by a “harassment” petition.

          • Tiago D’Agostini

            CCP consider it harassment ONLY if the only possible reason youhave been doing it is to annoy that person.

            Once we found a Freighter AP traveling from a corp that would be at war with us within 2 hours. And the freighter was at 3 jump from jita.

            We kept it bumped for 2 hours until war started. Then we killed it.

            he tried to petition, but to no avail, because we clearly had a purpose on that bumping that was not harassment. It was to hold him until the war started.

          • Mariusz Trynkiewicz

            That’s kinda clever. And kinda sad.

          • autz bittervet

            Being bumped for 2 hours would have annoyed me (and basically everyone i reckon), only reason no action was taken there seems to be cause he never put in a petition..while you were bumping him. If a petition was sent while bumping..and CCP did no action….I now fully understand why they struggle to keep subscriptions….some ppl may say..HTFU….but being bumped for 2 hours without being able to do anything…while the offending party gets away with it is pretty stupid. Lets pay $15 a month to go afk…cause my ship is constantly bumped around and I cant align and warp anyway… :/

          • Tiago D’Agostini

            Nope.. he did petition. A GM contacted us to understand what was happening. We explained him that we were holding him until the war started (at that moment was merely 10 min away).. The GM cleared us since with this purpose was clearly not harassment .

          • autz bittervet

            U bumped him for 2 hours..not harassment….wow….and i bet CCP lost a subscription when u killed his freighter. You must admit…that is pretty fukked. Oh well..if it happened to me..i’ll put my petition in, if nothin happen..ill start a threadnaught on their forums..see what they say then..cause im guessing alot of ppl will back me on it it.

          • Tiago D’Agostini

            Irrelevant how many back you in the forum because its completely within the rules.

            CCP already stated several times, harassment is something that is judged on a case by case basis and the focus in is the action SOLE intention was to annoy and harass the target player. Our objective clearly was not that, it was to kill the freighter to get the 7 Bil loot it had on its belly. We were WORKING hard to make MONEY in game, all within the rules.

            If ccp had done anything they would have lost HUNDREDS of subscriptions for catering tot he hello kitty bears.

            The guy was DUMB to not scout ahead when the war was that close. That is what eve is about. Cannot take it? Then leave to a more childish game.

          • Get-out

            How the fuck do you work that one out, must have been a gm with a fucking bolt loose in his tiny numb skull to not realise that 2hrs of bumping the same person isn’t harassing someone.Wow. some real sad numptys in this game..

          • Ming Tso

            I was gonna say there’s some real sad commenters in this thread, all this crying going on everywhere it’s like my socks are getting wet

          • Tiago D’Agostini

            Considering we do it a lot of times (although never again we had patience for 2 hours, most times is under 20 minutes, because that is our own patience level) and every single time all GMs supported us as legit gameplay.. .. take your own conclusions on who is not getting the concept of the game.

          • Empire sucks bollocks..

            Being bumped for 2 hrs is just taking the piss m8t simple. And should be dealt with as harassment, That’s just utterly taking the piss and shows that rules are just fucked up in this game.

          • Cloora

            Since Bumping doesn’t put any aggro timers on for logging off, why didn’t he just log off?

          • Tiago D’Agostini

            That one I do not know. Probably he was afk most of time (since he was on AP and returned only when war was almost upon him. NEver underestiamte people lack of thinking skills.

            Even so, that would not surely save him, because when we do that usually we have a t1 frigate ready to suicide as soon as he appears as logged off from watch list. We still have several seconds then to agro him and then probe him and on worst case know exactly where he will return to space so we can instant agro him. Then we would just keep suiciding ships to keep the timer running as long as the time to war would be close enough (would not do that for 2 hours). To be clear most of the targets we find in this situation are within 10 minutes or so of war starting and trying to make that last run/mission before the war. And most of time people just forget to log off.

            When we do not do that we simply mark the player, and keep a vigilance on the spot he logged of 23/7 alternating our alts for the whole duration of war. Since until not long ago he could not get expelled from corp while in space… he was doomed anyway. We would eventually get him.

  • Chris

    Does anyone else think ‘Hyperdunking’ is a really shitty and misleading name?

    • LORD OF THE TROLLS

      ‘Globbing’

      • Chris

        Slightly better but it doesn’t really roll off the tongue very well.

    • YOLO

      #yolo420blazeitswagging

  • noeffort-bigprofit

    tbh I love ganking but this is kinda fucked up. Pretty much easymode ganking

    • Tiehaa

      You can tell Falcon is a member of Goons a.k.a. CODE. hahahaha.

      • Joseph Blade

        The tinfoil is strong in this one

      • Ming Tso

        CODE. actually had nothing to do with this, The Saviour of Highsec has said absolutely nothing on the subject of Hyperdunking. However we are certain that He approves it since it enforces concepts which were originally present in The Code. The New Order is also pleased that the attribution of this concept has been mistakenly assigned to CODE., as it serves as notice and warning to any carebear that Code Non-Compliance will be dealt with harshly and swiftly, and by methods which are not possible for you to counter.

        In short, The Code Always wins. Always.

        • GSection

          Sorry but lately Pator Tech School always wins. ALWAYS

          • Ming Tso

            Just because an Agent of the New Order isn’t in the CODE. alliance doesn’t make him or her any less of an Agent of The Code. Anyone, in ANY alliance can perform revolutionary acts and advance the cause of The Code. Especially NPC corps like Pator Tech School.

        • cfc

          Go join cva RP fags no1 cares about your highsec ganking.

  • Pinky

    I dont get it…
    They have shittons of isk for buying a freighter, but are too cheap to take an alt in logistic with webs???
    WTF is wrong with these people? LOL

    • qwero

      Math is hard, isnt it?
      Freigher costs 1x 1,2 bill. If you dont make stupid mistakes you will have that freigher for ever.
      A second account costs ~820 mill PER MONTH.

    • qwero

      Math is hard, isnt it?
      Freigher costs 1x 1,2 bill. If you dont make stupid mistakes you will have that freigher for ever.
      A second account costs ~820 mill PER MONTH.

      • Facepalm

        Most people have the second account already. After all, takes at least two characters to move a capital. So if your gonna spent $12.50-$15 per month extra anyways you might as well use it to move your freighter and insure that 1.5-2B ship.

        • lol

          except CCP dont want you to cyno your capitals around anymore, now its by gates. because fuck all the old timers that actually skilled shit up.

  • C2H5OH

    Lock the destroyers [if they hanging around you] – pilot cant board them;

    • AciD

      How you can lock something that is offgrid ?

    • qwero

      Freighters cant lock anything. They also cant do anything against bumps. A player is defenseless in a freighter, thats why they are the prime target for griefers.

      • Jesus Christ

        We’re not telling you to lock something in a freighter. We’re telling you to not fly solo. CCP is telling you to not fly solo. EVERYONE IS TELLING YOU TO NOT FLY SOLO. Get an alt, fit it up with Artillery and webs, and fucking do something about the people ganking you. I swear to god, entitled carebears…

        • Dying Bravely

          Shoot yourself you mindless goon.

          • Jesus Christ

            Fit a goddamn combat ship, undock, and do it yourself, instead of demanding someone else do it for you, you useless entitled carebear.

        • qwero

          You know how 95% of freighter ganks work? A Machariel bumps the freighter so that he cant warp, then 30+ catalysts warp in and kill the freighter before concord arrives.

          Good luck with destroying 30+ catas in less than 5s with you alt.

      • C2H5OH

        Ah right; Didn’t remember; its been a long time since I was last in hsec let alone in a freighter.

    • WelcomeTo2015

      Try again, that mechanic changed months ago. Targeting a ship no longer prevents someone from boarding it.

    • WelcomeTo2015

      Try again, that mechanic changed months ago. Targeting a ship no longer prevents someone from boarding it.

  • qwero

    Why is there such a big outcry? Griefers are using this tactic for years.

  • lolgoons

    Lets start doing this en masse I say. Death to all high sec freighters.

  • AFK

    So safari, which has an easy and realistic counter through basic recruiting process, is banned, but bumping/hyper dunking which has a convoluted counter at best through multiple alts or constant hassling of corpmates who’d rather do something other than daily escort of freighters is allowed. OK.

    • Thatguy

      or just use a MJD

  • Gsy

    I believe the only argument you can have regarding this scenerio is that a solo freighter pilot has zero chance of either through skill and planning to defend himself against this tactic. One ship on gate is all it takes when you jump into system.

    All other issues imo are just how the game rolls.

    One might be to set up pings of the gates used to travel in multiple directions so you always have a warp to in the direction you are being bumped however your sruvival is assuming you can rewarp before they burn at you and a bit of luck. Great bumps will be on the nose though.

    • Ming Tso

      Poor solo freighter pilot. They can’t scout, they can’t have an alt with artillery that can easily lock up the catalysts to prevent the pod from boarding/or shoot the pod, they can’t have said artillery-equipped alt equipped with double webs to web the freighter into warp faster, and even then, said artillery-equipped alt would probably be Concorded himself because CCP made us wait 24 hours before turning intercorp aggression on and they forgot to send a duel request to my freighterrrrrrr

      Solo freighter pilots have it so harrrrddddddd.

      • Not sure bro

        Scout in HS with tones of neuts around? Does it make sense?

        • Sieveboy

          The scout dscans and sees if there are machariels off grid. Set your graphics to high and watch to see if you get scanned by a seemingly afk frigate on a gate. Use your scout to web you into warp. These things are some simple tips to avoiding gankers.

      • Gsy

        Don’t think you get my point, Eve is not Alts Online, there should be no circumstance that is 100% undefendable. If a solo freighter gets targetted it is dead.

  • I have an idea.

    Let’s make bumping do damage, ship to ship only though for now as the signature radius thing needs more work. You’d need something pretty big to bump a freighter then, as a frigate or destroyer would die easily crashing into something so large. Make people work for it, larger ships would need to repair themselves with shield and armor reps after bumping a freighter and this would immediately aggress them. Introduce bump safety where it is impossible for you to bump anyone with the safety on, but as soon as they or you turn this off, the one who turns it off is the one who becomes aggressed after bumping or being bumped. Problem solved… lol

    • Ming Tso

      No

    • Stu Pendisdick

      There is a game out right now that has this SUPERIOR mechanic. It is
      called Elite:Dangerous. What EvE Online COULD have been if Petturson
      hadn’t gone down so hard on Gianturco.

      • NoirWolf

        Tell me Muppet what will happen when you warp to 0 on a station or gate?

        • lol

          how about they make it so you dont bump? oh yeah i know, that would take all of 15 minutes to add to the code. idiot.

    • You have a terrible idea

      No, then I’d bridge in my amarr space penis in the middle of a fleet and watch as all of them die on my golden shaft of glory.

      • Thatguy

        That sounds amazing.

  • Saisin

    It seems like a tactic that is easy to counter… If the targeted pilot targets one of the empty ship not yet used for the attack, the attacker will not be able anymore to board it, isn’t it?

    • OMGoutrage

      that’s why they’re off grid.

  • smile

    Time to scan down empty Gankalysts in system and make away with the extra stockpile.

  • Thatguy

    I take it each catalyst bumps to ensure it doesnt get away?

  • Thatguy

    First Freighters. Then Cribbas Veldnaught!

  • Sjörövar Fabbe

    Since the announcement of the bowhead, I have repeatedly stated that this ship is released solely for trolling EVE pilots…
    It just shows that the crimewatch system, which was intended as being some sort of gank timer (ganker is limited to ONE gank try every 15minutes…) fails at doing this.
    The problem is not that gankers can safley return to continue their gank, the problem is that small weapons do max damage on capital hulls, which is ridiculous, as large guns do not really hit a cata…
    Maybe aggression shaing would do the trick… spewing out a ship from hangar while a criminal is on grid should flag a bowhead/orca pilot, or maybe denying a redflagged pilot to board a new ship or a station, so that they have to sit out their timer on a safe….

    • Deadspace Hoarding Dragon

      As a Provi resident. The only use for a bowhead for me is to move fitted ships trough the jumpbridges for selling on contracts. Or move your ratting ships if your pocket is being perma camped. Now I can flip the bird to Jump Fatigue

  • Jandice Ymladris

    Y’know, this sounds like a tactic that can be brought down by one of those ‘anti-gank’ corp/arganisations around. A way to give them more visibility. Look for systems where these type of killmails emerge from, then sent a scout there to scan down the empty catalysts & take action (board em!)