If you’re tired of hearing about the big null sec war, you may enjoy the drama of Bomber’s Bar.
Bomber’s Bar is a community which for a period of time I enjoyed being a part of. I enjoyed helping grow and develop the community and did my best to further its quality in spite of some of the issues that surrounded the political structure there. While no longer involved in that community there are a number of individuals who continue to keep in touch with me and tell me things from time to time.
For those who may not know, Bomber’s Bar was an open community meant to draw together people from all over that enjoyed flying Bombers and other cloaky ships. While widely attributed as a creation of Tempelman N, the organizations most recognized individual, it was originally started by people such as Johnny Freedom and eatsbabies cienfuegos. Since it’s conception Bomber’s Bar has had a revolving door of FCs and line members that have shaped the group in various ways.
Most recently there has been a major schism within Bomber’s Bar between the self proclaimed “patron corp” Vengance Inc (VENGA) and Sanctuary of Shadows (SASH.) Although Tempelman N has taken a central role in leading the Bomber’s Bar fleets, his time away from the game had allowed for other individuals to step up and take lead. With the void left, members within SASH began taking more lead and the VENGA centered angle of Bomber’s Bar was changed. Although Bomber’s Bar touts a “no polatiks” [SIC] culture, the reality of things is other wise. While Tempelman N was away, SASH and VENGA members frequently butted heads over the direction of Bomber’s Bar. This resulted in various bans and counter bans over various reasons. With Tempelman N’s return the conflict seemed to ease off for a bit but then took a turn for the worse.
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=21288158
This is Tempelman N’s brother’s account which the two share. It’s often used by Temp to bridge cov ops for hot dropping. What seems to have happened was that SASH members found Temp’s Redeemer and destroyed it while he was afk. That’s all we know for sure. The different perspectives I’m going to allow the people more closely involved to discuss. First will be Jayne Fillon from SASH and then Myo Megas of VENGA. Tempelmen N, while asked to contribute, has refused.
Seraph IX Basarab > So when did you first start flying with Bombers Bar and why?
Jayne Fillon > I started flying with Bombers bar in October of last year, only eight months after having joined Eve. I was in a small wormhole corporation at the time, and was extremely bored with the lack of things to do and constant scanning with my subpar skills.
Jayne Fillon > Bombers Bar caught my interest because there was a lot of activity, I could sign on and not have to wait around for a fleet to join. I didn’t know anything about PvP back then and it made me realize just how much fun fleet warfare was in Eve.
Seraph IX Basarab > How long was it before you became an FC and what attracted you to that role?
Jayne Fillon > I never made a conscious decision to try and become an FC, I just sort of fell into the role. Tempelman had taken about 30 bombers out into nullsec for a station timer, but things didn’t exactly go to plan. After losing his recon and a few of the…
Jayne Fillon > bombers in his fleet, he logged off leaving the rest of the fleet in some random nullsec system. No one else in fleet really knew what they were supposed to do, some suggested self destructing, others exclaimed they were going to try and make it back…
Jayne Fillon > on their own. I spoke up on comms and basically said that if you’re all resigned to dying anyway, let’s try and make it back to highsec together. So I did, and that was my first taste of fleet commanding. No kills, but I managed to get the rest of the
Jayne Fillon > fleet back to highsec safely. It made me realize how a good FC can really enable other people to enjoy the game – from then on it was always my goal to learn all I can about the game and help other people learn about the game and enjoy it as much as I do.
Seraph IX Basarab > Now to get to the main issue, what is the history between your corp and bombers bar? Recently there has been a banning and removal of SASH membership. I imagine this was not a spur of the moment action and there’s a history. Explain that.
Jayne Fillon > Bombers Bar has always been open – no restrictions based on corporation or alliance. The one and only rule had always been not purple shoot it (NPSI), so although I joined various corporations and tried out new things, the one constant was Bombers Bar.
Jayne Fillon > Almost a year after having first joined Bombers Bar, I decided that I wanted to devote my efforts to making the community better. From that simple idea the corporation “Sanctuary of Shadows” was created.
Seraph IX Basarab > Was there any reason you did not do this through VENGA Inc, the “parent” corp of Bomber’s Bar?
Jayne Fillon > Before making it I spoke to the CEO of Renegade Alliance, Jeff Munson, and asked for his approval. I submitted a proposal to him, stating my intent and how I wanted to go about doing this.
Jayne Fillon > https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzeIUfqg5a0QTm5NTkM2TUlObEk/edit?usp=sharing
Jayne Fillon > Although Vengance Inc was the corporation that had originally started Bombers Bar, it is far from the only thing that they do in Eve. SASH was meant be very focused, and I knew that a seperate corporation was needed if we were going to be successful.
Jayne Fillon > This prediction proved correct, and after the vast majority of Vengance Inc moved to Venal, more or less deserting Bombers Bar, we departed Renegade Alliance and joined a Black Ops alliance. Broadening our scope, but still heavily involved with BB.
Seraph IX Basarab > Was your movement or idea unprecedented in its scope would you say? And how did the VENGA leadership react to it?
Jayne Fillon > It didn’t start out as anything extrordinary. It wasn’t until Tempelman N quit Eve did troubles start to arise. Until that point, Bombers Bar had always been his baby. But with him gone, and the rest of Venga up in Venal, it became the first time that
Jayne Fillon > a corporation other that Venga was running Bombers Bar.
Jayne Fillon > http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/1lki28/
Jayne Fillon > Less than a month after Tempelman quit, we left the alliance. They simply weren’t doing anything that we were interested in anymore, and had left Bombers Bar to its own devices.
Seraph IX Basarab > And when did the tension between SASH and VENGA Inc/Tempelman N begin?
Jayne Fillon > Once we left alliance, our “betrayl” was met with retaliation by those in Venga who had moderator priviledges, with two of my members being banned from Bombers Bar and myself being removed from the position of Head FC. Although the later turned out to be nothing more than a symbolic gesture.
Seraph IX Basarab > Has anything like this happened previously or was this a unique case?
Jayne Fillon > As far as I’m aware, this is the only time something like this has happened. Unlike a corporation, the owner of a chat channel can never be replaced.
Seraph IX Basarab > Were there specific people involved in escalating the issue against your members?
Jayne Fillon > Yes, the vast majority of Venga are very nice people and a lot of fun to fly with – some of them taught me how to fly bombers in the first place. However there were a few members, Myo Megas and Lak’ca Antollare, who seemed to do nothing but detract
Jayne Fillon > from our efforts to make Bombers Bar better, banning individuals and making up new and superfulous rules despite never participating in Bombers Bar themselves. That was extremely frustrating.
Seraph IX Basarab > It seems to be a common repeated aspect and I can relate to the frustration that you felt when people who you have a common interest with, fail to see that and react poorly. Now what about this latest incident?
Jayne Fillon > The latest incident is quite silly to say the least. These are the kills that are at the center of the issue.
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=21288158
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=21263308
Jayne Fillon > I wasn’t around for this, but I logged into a corp mail shortly afterwards. http://i.imgur.com/2WTehon.png
Jayne Fillon > In summary, Tempelman had moved his blops into HED-GP in order to bridge a fleet into http://evemaps.dotlan.net/map/Catch/F4R2-Q
Jayne Fillon > Apparently he left him black ops in HED-GP, either decloaked or was decloaked by someone in fleet, and went AFK for a long time.
Jayne Fillon > Nonnak Severin, a FC from my corporation, was leading the fleet. An hour or after the fleet had ended, Tempelman was still AFK in HED-GP. SASH started running our own black ops fleet, and out hunter found a redeemer on scan in HED-GP.
Jayne Fillon > Upon returning to his computer and finding his alt in station, Tempelman banned all of SASH.
Jayne Fillon > https://soundcloud.com/jayne-fillon/soundcloud-128099885-fc
Jayne Fillon > When we talked about it at the meeting, he decided to unban SASH, but three days later I got that mail and no other explanation as to why we were being banned after all.
Seraph IX Basarab > I know Bombers Bar follows a “Not Purple, Shoot it” policy. Was SASH in fleet with bbar?
Jayne Fillon > The first 15 minutes of this meeting with the Bombers Bar FC’s deals with the aftermath of the Redeemer loss.
Jayne Fillon > Bombers Bar does operate on a NPSI policy, and always has. SASH was not in fleet with Bombers Bar, or Templeman at the time. The most obvious proof of this is the pressence of the Black Ops Battleships – something Bombers Bar never uses for actual combat
Seraph IX Basarab > Playing devil’s advocate here, I could see how disgruntled SASH members may have uncloaked Tempelman N while within the bbar fleet and then allow the SASH fleet to carry out the strike. What is your thought on that?
Jayne Fillon > To put it simply, it’s entirely possible.
Jayne Fillon > I could think of a million reasons why we wouldn’t – most notably that if we really did want to go against Tempelman, Venga, or Bombers Bar itself we could have done a lot more damage than just a Redeemer.
Seraph IX Basarab > I had heard from you and others that there were some questionable handling of the ISK bbar makes from the loot which is taken by Temp as well as the money made from the raffles. Do you think your knowledge of such events contributed to your banning?
Jayne Fillon > There have been issues with the handeling of ISK donated to Bombers Bar, which was intended to pay for Black Ops Fuel and SRP, but I don’t think that contributed to us being banned from Bombers Bar.
Jayne Fillon > If anything contributed to us being removed from Bombers Bar, it was my refusal to apologize or reprimand my members for Tempelman’s Redeemer. In my opinion, we did nothing wrong.
Seraph IX Basarab > Are you still seeking a reconciliation with Tempelman?
Jayne Fillon > No.
Jayne Fillon > The vast majority of FCs who ran fleets for Bombers Bar reside in SASH. Although many of us loved our time in Bombesr Bar, all good things come to an end. We’ve decided we can do better things elsewhere.
Jayne Fillon > Yes, actually. Those of us who were banned have take the lessons we learnt from Bombers Bar – what worked and what didn’t – and created a new channel called “Spectre Fleet”. We hope to expand on what Bombers Bar started, flying fleets other than bombers
Jayne Fillon > and even running fun tournaments.
Seraph IX Basarab > Good luck to you and thank you for your time.
Now for Myo’s contribution:
Seraph IX Basarab > Alright so when did you start flying with bomber’s bar and why’d you join VENGA?
Myo Megas > i started flying with bombers bar about a year and 3 months ago, maybe a little more
Myo Megas > I joined venga because i liked the people and way the corp works
Seraph IX Basarab > Who are SASH and what has been their contribution to Bomber’s Bar?
Myo Megas > Sash is a corp that has some members that FC’d for bombers bar
Myo Megas > starting about 6 months ago or so
Seraph IX Basarab > I understand that there’s been a history of issues between SASH and Bomber’s Bar. When did this start, what was the nature of these issues and who was primarily involved?
Myo Megas > there was many members involved as their corp is like minded and seemingly tight, they did amazing things for the bar, great fleets and things like that but they also used the bar to openly recruit which is not allowed in the bar and they brought..
Myo Megas > distrust with them to the bar in some ways and had an elitest and bully attitude where they would act like the bar was “theirs” instead of just a channel for “pug” fleets
Seraph IX Basarab > Was this a group action or mainly instigated by a few individual members?
Myo Megas > all of the above. if you “punish” one sash member they would spam bombers bar with drama and anger even if the person was punished by the group of “FCs” over rules everyone had voted on
[04:14:40] Seraph IX Basarab > And what happened from your perspective that caused them to be banned this last time?
[04:16:31] Myo Megas > from reality it was the continued lies, attitude, bullying, hatefulness of FCs from sash and the ceo and some of its non FC members, they had been told in the past many many MANY times by many people things that needed to change
Myo Megas > as the bar isnt about elitism or pushing your self up but about having fun and they just felt the were above thsoe “rules”
Myo Megas > but others still needed to apply to them
Seraph IX Basarab > So what happened to Tempelman’s Redeemer? My understanding was that the loss was not on Tempelman N’s account, but his brother’s Tempelman JWH, is that true?
Myo Megas > that has nothing to do with sash leaving the bar so why ask
Myo Megas > people would like to spin reality i know and say that was why but it was not
Seraph IX Basarab > From the recording of the bbar meeting it seems to be the exact reason. Tempelman stated that the fact that Jayne did not punish his members for killing his Redeemer is why the banning is kept over all of SASH. It’s on voice.
Myo Megas > and no he doesnt say that, he says that was WHY they were banned but in the recording both sides say sash is back and it was over
Myo Megas > i was ther and i have the recording
Myo Megas > and they took out fleets and were in channel that night so…
Seraph IX Basarab > Then when would you say the ban happened and what was the specific reason?
Myo Megas > like i stated before the attitude, bashing of other FCs and BB members both publicly in bombers bar and in FC channels. They were warned time and time again and never stopped and once logs were presented it was decided that they were gone
Myo Megas > as bombers bar isnt about harassment it is about having fun, not just max kills blob fest fuck everyone who isnt with us
Myo Megas > its supposed to be a welcoming place for all not just a select few that one group likes
Myo Megas > which is what some in sash were doing
Seraph IX Basarab > Is there anything else you would like to add concerning bomber’s bar/SASH or the issue?
Myo Megas > yeah, bombers bar bans single people who act like this but never had an entire corp act this way AND be FC’s which is why it lasted so long, many people tried to work this out but in the end it was causing problems and they refused to keep it out of bombers bar
Myo Megas > so enough was enough and they now went their way and bombers bar is back to being very anti that play style
Obviously there was much more tension than a simple Redeemer kill. It’s difficult to say if the schism will have a lasting effect on the community as a whole. What is sure however is that no matter how hard you try to avoid politics it consumes whatever entity assumes any sort of organization. We may never know the truth of what happened with Tempelman’s Redeemer but that extra bit of tension is all it took for bonds to be broken and new beginnings to emerge.
– Seraph IX Basarab
