Previously, the “In its Wake Will Follow a Storm” article, reviewed events leading up to CCP’s announcement and predicted a storm of complaints would befall CCP. Indeed the storm followed, and delivered a torrent of feedback, just what CCP wanted. The comments section of the devblog is well over 150 pages so far. Articles on EN24 and other newsites garnered hundreds of comments, mostly ideas and misgivings. The whirlwind discussions are hopefully leading into FanFest where they can be discussed in front of panels of devs.

Lead on the changes is CCP Fozzie, who has only communicated once since the release of the devlog. When the controversial jump changes were announced last year, the lead on that mechanics change was (former) CCP Grayscale who was very responsive and seemed to relish out-thinking the player-base. In contrast, CCP Fozzie takes a very calm and cautious approach, as if he were trying to ease up and pet a lion with a thorn in it’s paw.

“Hey folks, thanks for the feedback so far… I want to reassure people… I can’t blame people for being cautious…There’s a lot of other areas where we’re seeing your concern…” – CCP Fozzie

Not to mention the amount of words dedicated to assuaging readers concerns in the devblogs, most of it indicating his understanding of player concerns. Considering the wide spread affect of sov mechanic changes, and the deeply invested veteran players it hits, CCP is listening to the feedback and writing notes without much of a defense of the mechanics.

CCP 2.O

CCP’s strident past had all the markings of a defiant young band of developers taking on the word and inviting the players to join them. EVE was an exciting place as devs delivered huge expansions, delivering loads of content to work towards. Dev’s were leaders and celebrities for the players, but CCP came to accept that piling more content on top of content was not the answer, since the real game was always the players competing against each other, even outside the game.

After CCP took a few years to fix some pain points, they hired and promoted, the very unlikely, CCP Seagull to lead the EVE developers. The quiet voiced, female, that practically whispered her way through presentations, was handed a game built by mainly Nordic men, that fostered a “Shoot’em in the face!” mentality by the mostly male players. The very unlikely Seagull, stood in sharp contrast to the virtual world she had been handed. Yet, she is a revered Executive Producer EVE , able to garner enough trust and goodwill to take EVE to a new level. Her quiet voice is eagerly anticipated, hushing crowds that are engaged with her in the direction EVE is going.

seagull

 Eco Systems

Seagull’s ego-light vision, to get CCP out of the way, and to focus on player’s and their relationships with each other, seems to be the basis for CCP’s new development as well. The traditional development ideas of creating new “thrones to conquer,” are being replaced by the creation of an eco systems (weather, terrain, lunar cycles). Both systems move players, but the former can eventually be solved by a king of the hill, while the latter can mutate into a different set of living conditions. CCP can use levers to manage null-sec sov like governments manage an economy, which fits nicely into their new role as custodians of New Eden, not creators of it.

This strategy was a part of goal number seven:

“We have intentionally built many aspects of the new system that can be easily adjusted and tweaked. This will allow us to incorporate the feedback from the community before release, respond to problems or stagnation after release, and replace specific parts of the design with new types of gameplay as they are released in the future.” – CCP Fozzie

Note “the details” missing from the sov devblog:

Fitting requirements for Entosis link module – will dictate the ships can be used, however big or small. We only know they discourage supers right now. If it needs to be a new sov ship that can easily be created to replace the module.

Invulnerably schedule – dictate how much sov can realistically be defended. If 1:100 structures go invuln in your 4 hour window you can control a lot of space, but if 50:100 structures are at risk, not so much.

Loot schedule for Drifter salvage – determines how pervasive the e-links get, which effects tactical strategies like how much you protect the link ships or how many you bring. R/K selection theory comes to mind.

These details were deliberately left off until after the players of New Eden had a chance to theory craft the new mechanics. After the feedback is in, CCP will probably err on the side of status quo, for a dev cycle before they carefully nerf as little as possible, much like the nerfs of recent months: a little at a time. With shorter release cycles CCP can keep the game tuned, and simmer null-sec steadily. The sov mechanics are a fluid framework that can be dialed in by CCP.

“So if problems show up in discussion and playtesting we’re happy to let players try to find a counter and then relatively easily step in if that counter doesn’t materialize.” – CCP Fozzie

Most of the issues players are objecting to can be dealt with by the players as they figure out how best to counter and counter-counter tactics. If at some point an imbalance arises, CCP will likely make adjustments using their levers (ratios, frequencies).

 ccpcustodian

Early Fears

Time Zones

For many years, alliances picked up corporations in different time zone to make sure they had 24 hour coverage. Australian time zone corporations were coveted because a lot structure timers were set to downtime (in Aussie TZ), hoping that the 30-60 minutes time-out would discourage fleet participation of the attackers. Alarm clock Ops were common in “time zone warfare.” The result was that an alliance had members from all over the world. The Prime Time mechanic may put a chill on that, segregating players into time zoned corporations and alliances.

“So you’re going to see us asking a lot of questions in a number of different areas to the players who have opinions on the way we handle time zones in Sov. The goal is to get to the core of the concerns people are expressing about these mechanics, figure out what player needs we are missing in this draft, and see if we can’t design a system that meets more of those needs more effectively. I don’t expect we’re going to make everybody happy, as time zone mechanics are one of the stickiest design issues in a worldwide single shard MMO. However we do think it’s likely that your feedback can help get us to a better design than what we have right now.”- CCP Fozzie

oldsov

Defending Space: Empires in Constant Decay

Most incumbent sov holders (CFC and N3) are troubled by the harassment they will receive, since the attackers can reinforce on a whim, or blitz your holdings and cause a huge mess. This, day after day, even when most people are away on RL vacations.

Sov holders have a false sense of entitlement to be whole and should get comfortable with always having some structures in reinforce mode. The UI insures that defensive strike force leaders can see where the real trouble spots are and send a team, like a fire department putting out actual fires. Trying to prevent reinforcements should be reserved for slow days. Empires in constant decay, just like RL.

That hyper vigilance lasts four hours and when prime time closes everything is saved that was not contested. Any griefer without real intent will have his bluff called when the Prime Time window closes. Now it’s time to go on the offensive.

dust-eve

Sidelined Capital Ships

Pheobe’s jump drive nerfs and fatigue were a fix for TIDI, which was a fix for slow servers, a reality of a single shared server. The nerf was pushed by an exiting dev, and definitely complicated matters for sov holders, but it didn’t shift the map, nor did it stop big fights initially. What it did do was allow large sov holders to kill solo unaffiliated capital pilots in their areas, usually while they were preparing to sell the ship.

before-after-sov1

Phase two has very little to do with jump changes. They appear to have been born of two different strategies. The jump changes were a nerf to force projection reach, but the new sov system made them irrelevant to sov, thus making jump changes practically obsolete. In fact, jump fatigue works against the “defenders advantage” when using alliance jump gates.

Even if super capitals are needed to meet another super capital force, the supers and dreads are too slow to move around the constellation as a group, and they are too vulnerable outside of a group. Super capital fleets will still be used to capture and hold moons, which is where they will be used until those structures eventually change to the new system. By then, supers will probably have a different role which integrates into the sov game.

Independence

Once the novelty of having the alliance name on the map faded, all that was left was the wealth you could extract from it. When an alliance hit it’s natural limit, it stopped growing. Then high end alliances figured out how to “rent” sov by putting up dummy alliances that the renting corps joined. The result was the top 4 of 5 alliances were renters, ruining the ranking leader boards. All vanity was out, it was all about the ISK.

Now that Territorial Claim Units are simple flags, big alliances may allow renting corps to form their own alliances and plant their own flags. Big alliances may focus on defending Stations and Infrastructure Hubs only. CCP will likely introduce new sov structures in the future as the sov system grows.

Wealth

Owning sov has the same benefits, but is potentially a lot more trouble now. The return on investment may not be worth the lifestyle so new metas on making ISK off sov may emerge. Renting space may invert to extortion rackets on neighboring sov holders as the big alliances will show up for stations Capture Events if nothing else.

Phase three will probably incentivize sov holding and ultimately destroy the rental concept by taking a note from EVE’s Planetary Interaction system, and slowly migrating a new value layer over all of nullsec. Alliances will need to be driven out of their walled cities by famine, plague, NPC locusts, and lured to other people’s space in pursuit of vast wealth. All in one large eco-system that is dialed in by the custodians of New Eden.

locus

It seems the whole concept of sovereignty is in flux. The CCP 2.o may be creating EVE 2.0, a dynamic, if not organic, environment worthy of being coveted by the ageing MMO genre.

 

—–

***Updated:  Fozzie addresses good questions on “EVE Down Under” Essential listening 🙂

Fozzie break big news:

  • Supers become some kind of force multiplier giving wormhole like bonus’s to fleet or system or allies. They will not be damage ships anymore
  • Delayed local in nullsec !!  Heavy hint. (AFK cloakers will never be nerfed, now everyone will be one, ha)
  • Might nerf PVP probing – to require second warp-in point, instead of being able to warpin in on target (bomber nerf)
  • Goal of removing fleet warp
  • Mechanics will stand – maybe some adjustments letting AU timeszone in on more action, but he didn’t sound too convinced.
  • Incentives to own sov area already there – anom ISK generate tons of wealth
  • In space activity and that can be disrupted will determine sov bonus always – not anything that can gamed, like turning ISK into bonuses.

Overall, the above article was on target. The old way of building EVE is over:

“Fuck HP based objectives… They push people into requiring larger fleets… I’m very glad we get an opportunity to remove that cancer from EVE.”

Like supers, massive dps ships, were ok when they were out of reach for most people, but it’s been years and now there are too many. The “legacy design debt” is being crushed under its own weight. Their previous design concepts of bigger, taller mountains to climb cannot resist the sleeper hive-like collective of EVE players, especially after years 11 years.

  • Sov expenses were supposed to be too expensive to rule all of EVE
  • Battleships were to be rare.
  • Wormeholes were to be to hostile to live in

The second decade will be different than the first, with (eco) systems in place that they can simply tweak to dial in a fast and fun game experience.

We have a lot of tools, thanks to the way we make modules in EVE, we have, essentially, gotten very good at being able to adjust There a lot of effects we can put on them, there a lot of different attributes of ships we can play with, so if anything gets our of control, it’s very easy for us to adjust it…to get good game play.

As for the fears the theorycrafters have expressed about being menaced by small fast ships taking sov:

Our core goal is, to win an objective with an entosis link, the victory should go to whoever has reasonable dominance of that location, whoever has military control in real terms. (on adjustments) The goal is to use as light of a touch as possible, but as strong of a touch as we need. Go with the minimum amount of interference on what people can fly. “

Phase 3

Phase 3 doesn’t exist like phase 1 or 2. It will be all the other little changes that happen in the future. So phase 3 will have its own phases and won’t be expansion leading.

CCP Fozzie says the incentives to owning Sov are already there so nothing new is coming to make people want to have sov.

“We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “

This means renting or extorting people in other space will still be a goal for coalitions that cannot use all the space themselves.

supers

Supercapitals

There isn’t enough compelling roles for them and some of the specific roles… they are too strong and that’s not the kind of balance we want.

Capital Ships are a class that is getting weaker with these changes … capitals have not been in a good balance place for some time … in some places they are too strong. Moving in a direction of wanting to shift them in the direction of wanting to shift them towards active, on grid, but non damaging effects. have the kind of things that act as force muiltipliers, the kind of thing you want to have in your fleet but that dont just blap people.

Somethings like the T3 Balance are higher priority. We are very aware that this set of changes make the urgency higher for it.

..Bring these things on to the field where they really matter, where they have defenses but they are also big vulnerable assets that the other side wants to kill, and they do cool things that dont just involve blowing people up. Things like building upon the ability that the super has now with the projected ecm burst into some more interscene effects like that things like on grid strong effects like Wormhole effects that affect everyone, things that reflect mobility a bit more to build upon that kind of foundation of the titan bridge, maybe some more in system mobility ….”

 

CCP is moving supers to being on grid force multipliers – much like enhanced bonus ships. Where they are a few per battle to affect the grid – like ECM bursts, wormhole type effects, in system mobility (like micro jump bridges), etc. They may still do damage but without high HP objectives in the game, they may not need as much dps as they have now.

Currently supers are used for a few things, structure grinds, counter drops, and intimidating, other than that they are parked in the garage.  CCP wants to see more oppertunities for pilots to use them as perhaps centerpeices to fleets of all sizes.

Love for AU time zone

Interestingly, CCP Fozzie has chosen “EVE Down Under” to, not only answer detailed questions, but also to break news, with the future of supercapitals and null-sec delayed local possibilities.  Fozzie also was the guest speaker in EVE Down Under’s player gathering in 2013 (CCP Rise and Mimic attended last year).

It was a good will gesture to the players in the Australian time zone., who already put up with downtime and now have to deal with the issue of “prime time” being primarily US and EU time zone based.

Conclusion

Considering what CCP Fozzie was doing – asking for input from the hardest hit AU time zone players and to use their show to give out very important information, it is hard to accuse CCP of ignore their players.

With their recent track record of delivering on promised features, and being daring enough to take out features that complicate gameplay (Indy Teams), the conclusion players should reach is: CCP won’t let gameplay break, and will dial in what is needed to make EVE engaging.  There are way too many days before these changes hit to worry about how they will change the game.

Most sov holders are on the record, fully supporting the changes to sov and (some) even on the later changes: This “EVE Down Under” podcast, The Mittani’s “Meta Show,” Crossing Zebras podcast featuring Grath (PL) and ProgodLegend (CSM/Nulli), and other sources show that these changes are very welcomed.

 

 

  • trollsroyce

    The timezone issue worries me the most. Theoretically, if you slap a catalyzing mechanic on an unwanted effect (time zones dividing playerbase), you get a catalyzed unwanted effect.

    Soon the game will shift towards the existant “top” time zones; the one on top of the daily PCU curve. This is the time during which stuff happens in nullsec, because the playerbase consists of people playing mostly during those hours. The catalyst are alliances defending mostly during those hours since that’s when they are online.

    This will lead to the rest of the world doing something else than sov. This is what happened in Dust with time zones in planetary conquest: The rest of the world has mostly quit, and the 6 players that still play are US tz.

    BTW, the dust prime time mechanic was nerfed after 2 weeks of live game. It caused time locking of content too harshly and crapped on the already frail sandbox there.

    • alx

      In this system you atack on enemy time zone and deffend on yours… This will make TZ alliances to form blocks.

      Obviously most of system timers will shift towards the top players TZ since they will hold most of the sov… but since deffendes get many benefits and Is harder to form an atack fleet out of your TZ, for each TZ we will have a main block that will only be abble to hold what they can use… and this ensures the combat all around eve on all TZs…

      • fermaguel

        No, no it won’t

        And besides, any arbitrary mechanic that PREVENTS you from fighting your enemy outside their own personally chosen TZ when they are strongest is terrible. May as well split EVE into regional servers, this does nothing but fuck Aussie out of 90% of meaningful participation, and promotes the destruction of valuable multinational communities.

        If it’s in space it should ALWAYS be destructible, stations included. On that mote the New autofreeport mechanic is terrible and just brings higher shitpvp to null

        Also to mention, scattering it over the entire constellation makes wars a pain for everyone, even if your not i involved in the fight you’ll have people harassing your son because a capture node spawned in your system, forcing 3tf, 4th, and 5th parties into a conflict they otherwise wouldn’t want a part of

        • fermaguel

          Duck autocorrect, highsec not higher, and sov not son

        • sdfefs

          any alliance worth for shit have had no problems doing alarm clock ops in sov wars. What’s to stop them from doing it again when attacking sov? If they want to take sov from an alliance with a different primetime, well… they better set their alarm clocks for it if they really want that space. Otherwise, get out if you can’t find a way to fight in their prime time. See, this is a boon to defenders, on top of being able to prolong timers, if they actually use their space. I for one like the primetime mechanic because it makes you think about your attacks when taking on an alliance of a different timezone and not just the amount of cap ships they can field.

    • Really?

      Alliance Timezone Apartheid. Instead of renters you will have off TZ corps in the alliance who pay for the privilege of using upgraded space during a specific time slot. The on TZ overlord corps defend the space as needed while their serfs labor in the fields for tax income. This might not seem likely now. But if phase 3 delivers the promise of a more bottom up funding approach for alliances it will be the new normal.

      • Matterall

        Interesting points. We have a writer hyper-focusing on the Prime Time issue, hopefully we can explore this further.

      • Meow.

        But is this really so wrong?

    • Matterall

      Why would defending fleets be more important than attacking fleets? American Football teams don’t just have a defensive team and that sport does ok, from what I hear.

      Besides, alarm clocks ops have existed a long time – for months at a time. Maybe with enough loss, the enemy will change their primetime to something else, thus rotating the responsibilities. It will be use strategically depending on the relationship with the enemy. Might even be a source for Intel on who a sov holder plans to fight.

      Prime time is not only a defensive mechanic, if you want the fights you can draw people in to get some consistent content for a while.

      • trollsroyce

        PCU curve clearly shows there is already an existing EVE “prime time” during which many players are active.
        Since there is such a prime time, it’s safe to assume alliances will generally favor defending around that prime time. That’s when you attack as well, since the defensive timers are generally set there.
        This leads further and further into stuff happening during the prime time of eve and as such players being on more and more at the prime time. Those left out have less to do; those who happen to live on the wrong side of the planet.
        In an aging mmorpg this is not good design. CCP just should not take one of the big issues with a global sandbox and catalyze it with game mechanics. The prime time will exist no matter what, and people will alarm clock, but it’s not a good idea to make it worse by game design.

        • Matterall

          great name btw.

  • I actually forgot that these sov changes are like 3 months away. So I take comfort that we have a lot time for changes to be made.

    • Chris

      3 months at earliest.

      I suspect they won’t be able to fix this shit within that time and will have to push it back a bit.

      • Dirk MacGirk

        I’d bet they are 97% done with only details to tweak. It was 90-95% when they showed it to the CSM. The framework isn’t going to change all that much, if at all.

        • Chris

          I know.

          And I’m pretty sure fixing it will require more than just tweaks.

          • Dirk MacGirk

            I don’t know that I recall a major initiative that they have revamped very far subsequent to the devblog. I expect we’ll see all of the key points laid out in the devblog be released, with only details like number tweaks being what gets changed from the OP. But those details are what will make or break all of it. Range and duration for the entosis link, the fitting for it, which will determine ship classes that can use it, how command points are captured and by whom. Can an Ihub be anchored next to a tower? Anything beyond mining that feeds into the industry calculation- All of these things will matter, but the framework, which makes up most of what they are programming, will likely stay intact.

  • Necromonger

    It will be a disaster in its current form.

    to much hassle for to little benefits for the defenders

    If you want sov you commit to it and put stuff on the line zone and not send in disposable ships that costs next to nothing.

    make the Entosis link only fit on Command Ships or something similar to stop the abuse it will cause.

    Sov is a serious undertaking and should be endgame contend for alliance players and line members.
    Not something to troll or anoy your enemy’s.

    I am all for taking sov easy and chase down invaders as this is what i signed up for when joining a nullsec sov holding alliance.
    But it should be about fights and conflict and creating epic battles.

    It should not be something a day one newbee can do or some randoms scrubs just to make you waiste your evening by chasing down people who have no desire to fight for sov but just to ruin your evening day in day out.

    About the primetime thing i can only say i hope CCP looks closely and does not cut out other timezones from the fun fights…
    This will make them bored and in turn unsub a huge amount of people who feel like second hand citizens who cannot be part of the main contend that is provided in Nullsec Sov Warfare.

    • trollsroyce

      There is always the “you can’t touch our supercapital fleet” aspect of winning the game. A lot of players consider this to be the strongest victory setting, so there will always be people aiming for that in nullsec. It is the most natural incentive and endgame in the whole of eve. To be the strongest.

      Nullsec will never “die” because of this. If nothing else, it will be the equivalent of leveling up.

    • teamnodaughters

      bro have you see sov lately? Its NIPS, NAPS, “accords”, “good fites only no sov”, and a gang of supers/titans to assure the I-Win button. The only two entities that might be able to fight each other are happy ruling their side of the map and leaving each other alone.

      The age of “epic” space battle under the current system ended long ago, this NEEDS to happen to break up the stagnation in null

      • Necromonger

        Yeah sov sucks but you cannot blame the leaders only when you need to grind a region down with all its structures, you are grinding months on end shooting at structures…
        Fuck that shit man done that for way to long.

        No1 is up for that crap anymore, we all agree that it has to change, but not without a fight.

        If you want sov you fight for it and not troll with it.
        It shoulnt be as easy as picking your nose to take sov.

        Put the Entosis link on command ships only so both sides commit to a shootout instead of trolling around in cheap ass shit making me log on for a CTA day in day out with no fights given by the “attackers”

        I aint got no time for that shit bro, you want my space ? come and fight for it.
        Thats how it should be.

        • Varesk

          since its based on occupancy, people should be in that system already, ready to defend it from attackers. also, home defense fleets will be required, something that is not really needed now since the defenders have a 3 hour alarm when their defensive SBU is shot at.

  • imsosly

    LOL. all these comments.

    WWAAHHHHH!!

    “We have to be active to hold space..

    ” WWAAAAHHHH!!!

    “We can’t keep carebear-renting..”

    WAAAAAHHHHH!!!

    WWWAAAAHHHHH!!!!

    “We shouldn’t have to fight for space..”

    “You should have to have a minimum 200 Million Skillpoints to use Entosis Link!!!”

    WWAAAHHHHH!!!

    “MOMMY MITTENS!!! WWAAAAAHHHHH!!!!”

    • WWAAHHHHHHH

      People complaining about people complaining

    • yoyo

      So, on this doll representing you…where did Vince or Mittani touch you?

      • teamnodaughters

        Vince and Mitts will learn all about bad touching when we troll their space away

        • Necromonger

          I think CCP will learn when their subs go down with shocking numbers as no null sec player will have fun with all that trolling day in day out.

          I love eve and i love the pvp moments i have.
          But it this mmo turns into a troll investation i unsub or move to NPC space, you can bet your ass trillions of assets will be moved to NPC space already as its way to easy to flip sov.

          NPC residents might find themselves surrounded all of a sudden by players who are burned out from all those trolls and just say fuck this shit.

          • teamnodaughters

            lol, sorry to break the new to you, but subs were nose diving pre-phoeboe and only recovered when CCP announced a force projection… a nerf to blue donut empires helped the game recover, lol

            The way I see things, the null powers will fight as hard as they can to keep their space, no matter what grunts and line members say to the contrary. Just like how PL didn’t mass quit every time supers/titans got nerfed despite the tear and threats of each pilot threatening to unsub all their 42 of their accounts

            Come on did you honestly think people liked fat renter empires hogging all of 0.0 for themselves while their leaders RMT their mortgage.

            I honestly think CCP wants to literally shake null up by making space very fluid, it might change during phase 3 when the regions are properly shaken up

          • Varesk

            i will be resubbing 3 out of my 4 accounts when this goes live. my 4th account will not be since its a super pilot and supers are worthless.

  • imsosly

    Every cry baby.. please feel free to unsub and never play again. YOU WILL NOT BE MISSED!

  • Chris

    I love it.

    They disagree with me, therefore they’re just crying and have no legitimate concerns over the new system.

    • Matterall

      just let it sink to the bottom, the lobsters will eat it.

  • AFK

    The only people supporting this change are doing so out of spite or grievances. I still haven’t seen any reasoned support or defence of the design based on its merits (which you could at least say for Phoebe). This article is just a rehashing of “it’s going to cause tears for people I don’t like therefore I support it”.

    • Matterall

      Well the problem is the first line – I could not think of another word for feedback (didnt want to use it twice), so I put “complaints,” b/c most are. Set a bad tone for the article as anti anti…

      But I do like these changes, I liked thera and pheobe, before they nerfed the nerf. CCP has become a company I can believe in, and I believe in these changes. I think they are good changes, interesting changes and go much deeper that a sov mechanic change – they open up space for players to actually play the game at all levels.

      • Chris

        I agree that as a whole their overall direction is good.

        Current implementation is shit and needs a TON of work before they even think about putting it on tranquility. The more I post on various forums the more holes I poke in this system.

        • Matterall

          But really all they have introduced is the concept, so how can holes be poked into a concept that depends so much on the details. Tell me your ideas.

          • Chris

            You can still poke holes in a concept, such as the many pointed out with the primetime mechanic and the entosis modules. If you can’t poke holes in a concept then how could anyone give feedback on it or theorycraft?

          • Matterall

            yeah but those points continue to be countered, which is good. Cause those will get counter-countered, and so on.

            The article, if you didn’t skip it, lol, is about CCP making controls that can easily modulate the size of sov holders. I think the concepts are solid, but the fear scenerios are based on implementation which can, be modulated.

            the primetime issue is interesting so I see why Fozzie picked that to respond to.

          • Chris

            I just feel the currently proposed system is fundamentally flawed with the way they want to make taking sov faster and more accessable. Both things are great and I do agree with them, but the way they did it basically means any old 20 man corp can hold sov, and CCP is holding their hands every step of the way via primetime.

            Sov should require more. It should be a commitment. It should require careful planning. Its not something you should up and decide to do one afternoon. And roaming gangs should sure as hell not be able to fuck with your sov.

            Based on what I see, the system will require more than just a couple number tweaks to fix, and I doubt CCP will want to scrap any of their work to get there.

          • Matterall

            Good points.

            Sitting in Sov you deserve (like some kind of pension for SP and ISK grinds) – That concept is dead.

            Sov holders, have to maintain their space by – PVPing! The vibe I hear is it will be too much work, but the work is – PVPing. They rent empires to get money so they can only PVP, so… ? If the blue donus was a bad thing, then this is a great system.

            But the mindset has to change. Territories can shrink, and grow – it’s ok. it’s a living environment (eco system). let things get reinforces, fight only the wack-o-mole capture events.

            Or build prefectures with a corp or two and have ECM rapid response teams during prime time.

            Or get diplo skills and extort enemies, threatened to wipe them out if they tinker with you.

            Rome didn’t ask why their borders were constantly getting raided did the above. This new system looks like a living system to me, with interesting choices and political opportunities.

          • Chris

            Yeah, current sov situation is shit. No arguments there.

            Yeah they should maintain their space by pvping, but its not meaningful pvp. Its small ships. Not what people want to see when they read about sov battles and anybody who has been around the block will not want to participate. I don’t want CCP to lower the bar for sov too low and risk fucking over their veterans. Seriously, what do you suppose an “end game” is for us?

            Territories should shrink and grow, that’s not what I’m concerned with. I’m concerned with risk/reward being too skewed towards the attacker. An attacker that doesn’t have to commit much to threaten sov.

          • Matterall

            “but its not meaningful pvp” that’s a good point. It’s no fun to always work just to not lose, it should be pvp to win something.

            Fozzie says the incentives are already there – the ISK harvested out of anoms.

          • teamnodaughters

            I disagree… gangs not being able to fuck with sov led to this current stagnation… peaceful stagnation is not good for a pvp centric mmo.

            Sov holders are happy with the status quo, and those that aren’t have no real way of challenging that without dying in fire at the amusement of the mega coalitions.

            The decision to change sov from a castle siege style of warfare (hard, slow), to a open field (easier, faster, funner) was necessary for Eve’s continued survival. Even guys on the winning side will get bored (Like beating Skyrim, and all the side quest… theres little point in continuing to play)

          • Chris

            Small roaming gangs with no stake or intention of taking sov should not be contesting it.

            If they bring a large roaming gang, that should be a different story.

            That open field won’t spawn the same stories and empires that have been synonymous with eve for the past 11 years.

            I can guaruntee you that.

          • teamnodaughters

            What stories have you seen happening other than epeen stroking, reddit posting, and “content”. Nothing meaningful (sov related) has happened in months, even phoebe was a flash in the pan sov wise, that sputtered out.

            If it wasn’t for Brave, according to CCP there would be 38% less kills/pilots getting killed. The null empires have “won” old eve, its time for a new age.

  • Patch

    Some ideas are starting to come together in my mind. I think that BCs should have a role bonus to fit the sov laser. The range on the T2 sov laser should be less than 100km. You should still be vulnerable outside of your prime time, just much less so. Maybe timers are multiples longer or activity generates automated guns on your sov structures that are active outside the prime time. This way a smaller defensive fleet could have it’s DPS enhanced by the guns. I’m having fun thinking about this, so I guess that is content.

    • Chris

      You could also allow poses to be anchored on ihubs to help with the small roaming gangs not messing with all your shit.

      • Dying Bravely

        lol so you morons want to force people to grind deathstar poses? This is why no one will ever do what you guys suggest.

        • Chris

          You don’t have to kill it to flip the ihub.

          In any case a deathstar isn’t hard to kill. Dickstars on the other hand…

          I’m just throwing out ideas seeing what sticks

  • AFK

    Only semi related, but has anyone noticed how fucking quiet the CSM candidates have gone, in what is the height of election season. Ha.

    • Matterall

      YES, hahah. Cause the polls are still open?

      Maybe they had their say and CCP wants to hear from “the people” without their leaders influencing the discussions.

      • AFK

        Oh I don’t blame them. Obviously it’s politic. Just very funny to see the strutting come to an abrupt halt while they all dive behind the curtain.

    • Dirk MacGirk

      might want to listen to some podcasts. Manny, Endie and others of nullsec relevancy have been speaking. Others of irrelevancy have also said some words, but generally don’t know fuck all about what they’re talking about. However, a couple have been asking some questions to try and get a better understanding of why players choose to hold sov. I like that they are reaching out.

      • Matterall

        Links. I want to hear what both those guys think.

        • Dirk MacGirk

          http://crossingzebras.com/crossing-zebras-episode-55/ is Endie and Manny

          another one from CZ coming out soon with PGL and someone else I think

          And the Meta Show from TMC has PGL this Saturday (I think)

          Manny also had a pretty lengthy comment, which is now buried in the forums somewhere.

          • Matterall

            Yeah but that was before the changes

          • Dirk MacGirk

            Endie and Manny on CZ was recorded within 24 hours of the dev blog being released
            And Manny’s 6,000 character comment is in the dev blog’s comments section

          • Chris

            If you or someone else has a link I’d love to read it.

            I sure as hell am not digging through that threadnaught though.

          • Dirk MacGirk
          • Matterall

            hmm. I heard them together talking about what they hoped to see. Maybe they recorded again after?

            I’ll look for that comment. at 6k, it should be easier to find.

    • Dirk MacGirk

      Crossing Zebras episode just released with current CSM member ProGodLegend as well as Grath from PL
      http://crossingzebras.com/crossing-zebras-episode-56-2/

  • Dirk MacGirk

    Three months lead time is a lot. The lack of concrete details in the dev blogs could be a way of providing the opportunity to hear all of the possible pitfalls so that final product has already taken those into account. As players speculate, CCP can see where the great minds of the forums would likely take this new framework and can work to counter some of that before it even hits the test server. The debate in all of this is a good thing.

  • Z

    thanks doc

  • Hand of GOD!

    The world is on fire now that the sun has gone supernova………. Discuss.

  • ExdioS

    Eve Down Under Show lastnight, CCP Fozie answering questions from the likes of Manny etc, He also hints on a possible future use of Supers etc – https://soundcloud.com/eve-down-under/eve-down-under-episode-97-060315

    • Matterall

      !! Hmm that tells me CCP feels bad for Aussi TZ, lol. great though!

      LOL “I’m not Bam” This show is hilarious. Thanks for the link

      • ExdioS

        Its a good show around downtime on a Friday evening in the AUTZ – http://evedownunder.com

        • Matterall

          Will start listening – is it live? or always recorded

          • ExdioS

            Yes its broadcast live on a Friday evening(AUTZ) on the http://www.netgameradio.com website

          • Matterall

            Great! – great show – are you associated with it?

            I almost joined -VDD-, and I’m a big fan of Dark Razor. Fun FC.

          • ExdioS

            No, just someone from the AUTZ that follows the show weekly, the guys that run the show are the likes of Bam Stroker, Otto Bismarck etc etc

          • Matterall

            Yeah – all good guys. I started in an Aussie corp. AU players are among the best/nicest corp mates you can have in EVE. They really are exceptional.

            Also did an interview with AU (Brave Diplo) Kira
            https://soundcloud.com/mt-erall/en24-podcast-3

            starts at 33:00

          • OttoBismarck

            Yeah Friday’s at 10:30 EVE (30 minutes before DT we do a live show ever week…. except the next 4 weeks because I’m going to FF and I am the chief button pusher. At this stage we will be official back on the 10/4

          • Matterall

            Great show. With a stunning revelation by Fozzie.

  • Provi Miner

    my alliance laughs at the idea of “oh no everyone running every where” we have 5 systems and we actually live in them and use them imagine that

    • Guest

      Providence has long been the one part of null working as intended, recently joined by Catch. The sprawling empires of empty, boring space are not working as intended; some of them have trouble grasping the idea that CCP intends to change this.

  • LSM

    An interesting take on things

    • Matterall

      Thank god, someone actually read it. 🙂

      • Optio Lupus

        I read it, but cba listening to 2 hours of some bloke talking about shit. rather listen to Taylor Swift. Cheers

  • Matterall

    *** updated with podcast “EVE Down Under” *** Essential listening for anyone interested in this topic.

  • Chris

    Yet again, fucking over older players with the super changes.

  • nullbear

    Is that serious? Delayed local? Do they know how easy to gank a nullsec ratter? This guy is certainly high

    • Kinis Deren

      Better have your pvp mates on hand to protect you and drink some of the HTFU juice too.

      • nullbear

        I do plenty of pvp, but null is less appealing again and again. Similar mechanics to wh but half the income and the chance to be hotdropped. Whats the point?

        • Clearly Stupid

          Well I’m sure you could always retire to highsec and run level 4’s while staying in a noob corp, seems more your style

          • lol

            The “nullbear” actually raises some valid points there. They keep nerfing nullsec but don’t increase the attractivity of 0.0. Half of 0.0 will be empty with the new sov system anyways (every system below -0.5 sec) if they don’t change the way pve is done. Adding more obstacles (even though I like the delayed local) will just drive people off and depopulate 0.0

          • Kinis Deren

            Ummmm, no. Null sec has had some massive buffs (industry) in recent expansions. Maybe you should ask your overlords some a bigger slice of that moon goo isk if you are space poor.

          • hehe

            I am a overlord by your definition myself and I am in no way space poor (read: owning multiple space coffins). I like how npc shittlers like you who never achieved anything in sov warfare try to explain me how sov 0.0 works

          • Kinis Deren

            Awwww, did my suggestion that your drones touch your personal ISK faucets touch a nerve?

          • your posting is hilarious. Are you in PL because this is PL level of posting.

          • nullbear

            He has to be in moa… I can smell it all over. Hotdrops ratters with 30 bombers… Runs around in interceptor gang but they lose pretty much every fight they get in toto. Can you imagine moa with sov? I’d pay to see it

          • hehe

            Sorry I can’t hear you over my dogpile of renter ISK and r64 moongoo.

          • Optio Lupus

            I think you are spot on there.

          • Optio Lupus

            I think you are spot on there, lol

          • nullbear

            Well i heard it all before in phoebe from guys that never had the balls to have sov. Guess what? N3 and cfc are still alive and kicking. Be sure to read about us in the news while you do your thing

    • Optio Lupus

      Agreed its gonna make it easier to gank a ratter. on one hand this would seem to be taking content away from people who need to make isk in 0.0, as far as I can tell it seems to be much easier to make isk in HS than 0.0 for the average player

      but on the other hand it creates content for casual pvp’rs. setting up gate camps in your home systems now might actually provide regular content. I am all for casual pvp… so… maybe I will just keep a HS alt for isk making.

    • KadeshiShitalliance

      not when you dock up as soon as you see a neut in local, and refuse to undock and create any content in a pvp ship or otherwise. fortunately we have AFK camping to counter your failure to undock

  • Asura Vajrarupa

    I mostly do faction war, but I must admit, the new mechanics look interesting. I mean, I still don’t give a damn for null, but it looks like null will become more interesting then the sov grind it is now.

    • Neth

      This post is a glaring indicator of what FW has come to.
      It was SUPPOSED to be the stepping block into null with its recent changes, and now, lol, the plebs there still have no damns to give.

      Easy ISK, forced lack of scaling escalation in combat, fights that are macro-managed for you, and emphasis on fleet size over pilot skill (in null as well)?
      Sounds like FW.

      • Asura Vajrarupa

        My post is only an indicator that I like things you don’t like. It’s also an indicator you Don’t know what you’re talking about. I’ve done null sec, lived and fought there, multiple times. And to this day the delusional self importance of the null bear seems to have no limit. Gasp! People not in null making money! Gasp! People not in null having fun! Oh the tragedy! Oh the shame. To think, people having fun in a game! Nooooooooooooooo!

  • guest

    REMOVE FLEET WARP?

    why the fuck is this clown allowed to make changes

    • Chris

      I didn’t even notice that.

      Fucking fozzie

    • Kinis Deren

      Hahahaha, learn to play and warp yourself. Stop being an F1 pushing scrub.

      • guest

        Thanks for the comment. I appreciate you’re from an alliance that thinks itself much better than it is, and who’s primary relevance comes from isbomber fleets, so I also understand that fleet warp might have uses beyond what you can think of.

        • Clearly Stupid

          Fleet warp is gay, you should be able to warp yourselves without the fc dragging you around.

          • Guest

            Fleet warp has uses beyond PvP you dullard

          • phl0gist0n

            Especially now input broadcasting is banned 🙁

          • Boris

            guess what counters the gayest doctrine of all – slippery petes?

        • Kinis Deren

          Never forget your narative goontard – see you in space O7

          • guest

            Oh no I lost, BETTER CALL HIM A GOON

          • Kinis Deren

            Sounds like a goon, acts like a goon, speaks like a goon … if the shoe fits. For credibility try posting on a proper account rather than as a guest next time.

          • guest

            Sounds like a retard, acts like a retard, speaks like a retard…yep that’s Mordus Angels. Wish you ducks weren’t blue when I was in BL.

          • Kinis Deren

            I bet Elo kicked you because you always wanted a fleet warp ;-D

          • guest

            I left because it was steadily becoming shitter actually.

          • sounds like a cunt, acts like a cunt, speaks like a cunt, must be a cunt.

  • Lich Reaper

    Wow RIP supers, literally pay 30bil+ for a ship to give on-grid links. No thanks.

    • hmm

      I have the strange feeling that CCP has NO clue what to do with capitals/supers in the new sov system and now they come up with a retarded boosting mechanic for them?

      Does non-dps mean they remove fighter bombers and fighters from the game?

      I would love to have some content for my super in future eve, even if it would be high end pve (!) with sth like sleeper incursions in nullsec.

      • if you are going to do it …

        are you listening fozzie ? – we want supers with 250km remote repair and fb size rep drones
        that is the correct way to stuff up supers make my Aeon into the biggest guardian eva !

  • Kinis Deren

    Wow, EVE Down Under was pretty crap on the TZ issue – CCP Fozzie repeatedly asks the panel why would the AU TZ be any different from today and gets no straight answers from any of them.

    No, you won’t be able to Entosis hack your enemies EU and US TZ set TCUs, but you can certainly disrupt so much more that the current system locks you out of. Here’s an idea – why don’t the AU TZ fight other guys in the AU TZ, just like the rest of us in different TZs do?

    • ExdioS

      Because most of the AUTZ guys are in the same Corps/Alliances or blued to each other.

    • what

      because AUTZ has to travel across the whole map to find content in their TZ.

      • Kinis Deren

        Why? Too many blues prehaps? Sounds like Fossie Sov may have far reaching effects if that’s the case. I flew with an AU TZ corp/alliance and we never had a problem finding targets right on our door step in Delve vOv

        • shut up already

          Simply because there aren’t alot of AUTZ folks around in EVE. Most of them are in NC. / PL. as remnants of a former failcascaded AUTZ alliance.
          AUTZ is a dead time zone.

          • Kinis Deren

            Try un-blueing PL and NC. then you won’t be short of content. AU TZ is still very healthy as it is also morning in EU TZ. Of course it will never be as high as PCU times but that just life mate vOv

          • mr nobody

            Actually the 3 biggest AU groups are not blue

            Vdd which is in PL
            Anzac which is in CFC + add in all the AUTZ cfc members in the AUTZ sig
            and finaly brave.

            They are I think the 3 biggest AUTZ organisations and none are blue

          • ExdioS

            Its far from dead, just very small, being from the early AUTZ myself(Kiwi), there is a good amount of Aussies, Kiwis, Asians and the odd Eastern Russian, but many stick to their own corps because of the localized community aspect. Having bounced around afew EU and US TZ corps myself, it can be very hard to find similar TZ pilots to either fight or fly with, unless you join specific AU TZ corps.

            This change will hit the AUTZ, because of the fact that any sov work that AUTZ corps want to do, will mean more than likely Weekends only and either alarmclock fights that AUTZ can sneak in during the night(Wife avoiding) or work avoiding hehe.

    • Dick Hauser

      “No, you won’t be able to Entosis hack your enemies EU and US TZ set TCUs, but..”

      Thats the difference. Thats pretty huge. When you also have too few players to create an interesting universe, what is left. Should they all organize into 2 militias to find content?

  • Billbo

    “Supers become some kind of force multiplier giving wormhole like bonus’s to fleet or system or allies. They will not be damage ships anymore ”

    HOLY FUCK

  • This…is unexpected….It would be nice if CCP made null more profitable, if they are going to add the local delay. Risk and reward. More risk now, not more reward. I could easily make more money doing incursions which are safer.

    Also CCP really hates super owners, I am not complaining because fuck supers.

    I kind of think CCP Fozzie wants to kill null. Or just chase everyone out of it.

    • From zero risk, to some risk. I think the rewards are still too high.

      • There is always risk. Saying there is zero risk is silly. No matter where you go in Eve there is some form of risk. The amount of risk changes, but null does not have zero risk.

  • AFK

    At this point, just delete supers and refund them and related SP.

    • LOL

      Totally agree. Wasted years perfecting my super and titan pilot’s skills. What a total waste of effort, LOL

  • Irya

    Tears tears We can create another earth now , with all this salt water coming frome eyes

    Thks CCP , terraforming at its best !!

    http://faithfulodyssey.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/tears-of-the-world.jpg

  • Knobber

    Becomes more and more clear that neither Fozzie or Rise actually have played EVE in 0.0 and they’re on a mission to kill it.

    • Jeff Simons

      I get the sarcasm, but this kind of points out entirely how dumb these ideas are.

  • Howard Treesong

    Supers are nerfed because, frankly, I don’t believe CCP has enough imagination to build the kind of environment where they would be useful.

    • Dick Hauser

      Why do you think they ask the players for so much feedback? They need ideas to coopt.

      • Howard Treesong

        Well, you could say: it’s their product, they should know what to do with it. On the other hand, the players are there every day, they have to use the environment and mechanics.

        It is not a bad idea to ask for feedback from the users of the system since it’s the users who feel the pain and can suggest improvements. Combat soldiers in the field are also directly asked about their experiences with their equipment and what they like and don’t like about it. Because they have to use it, their life depends on it and these things matter to them.

        I wouldn’t call the part where CCP ask for feedback a bad thing. It really isn’t. Also, it’s showing the people who use the environment that they care enough about them to keep their opinion in mind. See: changes to freighters. Rigs were an extremely bad idea, but low slots are just fine.

        I didn’t like the whole Incarna expansion. Not enough added value for me. And the NEX/NES, they could have done so many good and great things with. People would have felt all fuzzy about using that. And they did it wrong for all the wrong reasons too.

        EVE is a fantastic universe, it has enormous potential for being the most awesome third place in online gaming, I am thoroughly convinced of that. But it seems to me CCP are caught up in the immensity of the complexity of the environment.

        I have some ideas of what they could do with that, most of it is FIS features. Things that make sense from the point of view of the pod pilot. The whole Sov mechanic, though it seemed like a great idea at the time, no doubt, it isn’t what I’d want as an immortal. There has to be something much better.

        I hope CCP find that idea.

  • Dick Hauser

    Phase 3 is the nerf of phases 1 and 2….. meh.

  • WillG

    Skills should fade if not used. Then the 10 year vet would still need to train up again to get into a class they haven’t used in years. Tuning the rate of fade would give a lot of power – fast fade and you could end up a Minmatar novice again if you don’t use the skills.

    Just like in real life!

    • Matterall

      very interesting. I thought that’s what T3 subskills were going to be: You lose them when you die in a T3 ship, but they never pushed that system to anything else.

    • Neth

      Every ship requires all the skills of the ships below them to be flown.

      Basically, you’re proclaiming that me, a pilot that can fly nearly every subcapital combat ship, would have to actually be forced to cycle through EVERY single ship in order to just keep the SP?
      Fuck you. I’ve payed, played, and earned my fucking SP with my money/time. Why should I lose that which I have taken the time to earn?

      Just because the EVE you now live in is basically a single subset of ships abused to no end does not mean that is the EVE we should all have to play as.

      As a note, I suggest you focus on your breathing everyday, wouldnt want to lose that skill by not focusing on using it all the time!

  • Dick Hauser

    Delayed local is a nerf to null sec ratting. A ratter is going to have to D-scan constantly. D-scan in its current form quickly gets old.
    If it was replaced with some sort of 3-D auto scanning thing that showed sigs as red dots or w/e it might be acceptable, but as it is i predict d-scan fatigue in weeks if not days.

    • Irya

      no auto scan

      use your fingers on the mouse

      • Dick Hauser

        I use my finger on the mouse… when i play warthunder… sideeffects include… being entertained and wondering why i wasted my life on EVE.
        I wanted to play an evolving game, but this is getting ridiculous. Im waiting for the fixes for the fixes now.

        If supers become on grid boosters thats a huge screw you to all those that trained for them, the older players.

        Meanwhile the new guy doesnt have a chance without skills and knowledge of the game.

        The svipul is a sign of the ages, being massively OP. Its twice as bad as the ishtar if you look at zkill.
        Eve is obviously heading towards T3 dessies online. CCP will nerf them and call it content.

        The game relies of long term planning, but everything is likely to change every 6 weeks.

        Im disappointed in EVE and CCP. Not what i signed up for.. and yes you may have my empty wallet, plz share it with CCP.

    • Matterall

      He didn’t say explicitly “delayed local” he just hinted hard. What may also come (total peculation) when that happens is a type of radar system that picks up ships entering system – maybe a module (choice), maybe part of scanner

  • Jumpin Jack

    GJ CCP so someone skilled char for that super for 3 years and now because of some newbie whinners who wants to rule the game after playing it for 2 months you decide that super is out of the game? I agree with you CCP, i will exept 2 x 50 plexes and 120 plexes compensation for 2 supers and a titan. Players always adapted to CCP changes but the problem is CCP never learned to adapt to players, CCP say big coalitions killed game, but those big coalitions made BR and gave CCP hundreds of new players with that one battle, so now because of lack of CCP ability to adapt they are making from shit nullsec the shitiest nullsec ever, maybe its time that you change people that run development in your company couse u begin to look a lot like wargaming with that crap game that they made

    • 0.0

      well said !

  • Can you imagine the rage that is going on in PL and NCdot right now about the supercap changes..I almost feel bad for them.

    • AFK

      Re: NCdot, I don’t care, but PL have always had a chest beating “L2P the game scrub” attitude (while doing nothing but spamming supers) so their tears would be quite satisfying (if they exist). Watching them operate under the new system will be interesting if their previous performance under cyno jammed timers is to go by.

      • Ryu

        you wont see such tears as you didnt see with phoebe either(except makalu lol).. PL has survived titan nerf, super nerf, another titan nerf, jump changes and anything else tbh. People in pl just enjoy the game, if it turns out that dreads will be the main dps platforms pl will use them, if its ibises pl will use them. But anyway what fozzie says is speculation and a possibility according to him. I hope it happens just so we move to thera and pillage the entirety of nullsec x)

        • Baal

          That never even crossed my mind. An alliance in thera can shit all over peoples sov all around eve once this new sys goes live.

          • Matterall

            But the holes shift before 48 hr timer is up. So it really comes down to being comfortable with living with the mindset of fighting for the win, not the pre-lose.

          • Random SC player

            That’s silly I’ve been playing around with thera as an individual. And I’ve had no difficulty eventually getting near to where I want to within a day. (though generaly as specific as “western null” or “8 jumps from Jita”). Whenever I’ve wanted to get to Tenal/Venal/outer-rim my favorite areas for expo sites I’ve found a “very-low-risk path” within a couple of days.

            While WH space is unpredictable, it’s not that hard to know how to scew the cards in your favor.
            ____________

            With 4 or 5 scanner alts in the space you want to get to(scan from X location and WH’s out), Using very basic/public knowledge of knowing where WH’s tend to connect to, and using Thera. I would be very very surprised if an organization like PL could not get 4-5 paths to any region they wanted in an hour or two.

            You don’t even need to base out of Thera, you could take Arida region which seems to get way more WH’s than others and live there

    • Noisrevbus

      For PL, Shadoo suggested Supers be given non-combat roles a couple of years ago already. The only thing that would be wrong with changing Supers in that way is if it is done before subcapitals have been given a semblence of balance. Scale tend to obscure certain things, such as how small PL are relative the scale they operate on. They are a fairly large alliance by now as they in recent years have “adapted” to meet various changes to Supers. However, they are still an alliance that pounce from a quite substantial numerical inferiority. That’s why changing Supers have always come with the caveat of scalable subcapital balance and why changes to Supers have been very moderate, at least up until Phoebe. Until Phoebe, every change to them also pushed scale up.

      You’ll have to understand the difference between relying on certain ships because you enjoy them and because that is the only available mean to take part in- and create content.

      The beautiful thing about the sov revamp is that it can help in that regard, even though the help it can provide is only on an indirect level. Kind of like Phoebe’s fatigue changes, but more effectful. Ideally though, they come with later direct balance passes too because that is needed for long term stability, while it could also help the Sov to shoulder less of a burden. If the Super changes roll in together with the Sov changes, then it becomes all the more important that the Sov changes are implemented very well to withstand the flood that has been pent up by Supers.

  • george

    All i see is a whole lot of hate coming from CCP.

    CCP has made it their mission to flame hate null each passing year that goes by and its members in all the various alliances who call this space home.

    This new patch from my point of view this will hurt high sec far more than null….

    Why? the value of minerals will now be worth dirt. No more will ore be needed from high sec and if it is it will be in such small amounts it will be pitiful.

    No need to have so many titans or supers……derp …….and now you are going to make them worthless to boot….wow a totally lame move in all respects.

    The only thing making it worth while to mine was the value of isk ……..Now you have just killed an entire profession……lol peachy job. 🙂

    Isk sink…… Now null will have controlled areas at a far less cost for the large established alliances.

    Mmm. more ship replacement funds for our alliances to play more burn jita games…..rofl

    Thank you CCP 🙂

    Now off to renter space…..sov can be dropped there and a heavy handed level of extortion will be taking place.

    With Phoebe fully in place who is going to want to live in the far ends of eve null space with heavy handed super powers all about you? NO ONE. Nor does the super powers of eve have any interest in this space either.

    Now to baby sitting…….that is what I see. Not so much with the major alliances but it will be most hurtful of the smaller entities as the large guys adapt and the small guys get trounced due to the over whelming numbers to create hundreds of timers within a 4 hour space.

    Now then, what about all the rewards that were promised? i have yet to see CCP reward members in null…..oh yea, small gift of indy cost shaved for building……WOW …..thanks but very lame given risk reward for living in null.

    Null space players are all about PVP in all its aspects with anything else just being noise to pass the time. Most buy from jita and have it shipped out no matter what the cost.

    Touching on the indy end for a moment…..Unless you have everything at your finger tips to make the ships, mods ect, building in null is a pain in the ass.

    For doing t2 you have to copy and invent at one station for best results, refine at another for the same reason and lastly bring all that crap together to get a finished product…..so much wasted time compared to high sec.

    Next item on the agenda.

    So many have spent huge sums of isk to have the best M/E for the massively expensive bpo’s, and for what? naught!!!! absolute lameness.

    Massive time investment.

    Your player base as a group has spent countless amount of hours training to be high end super capital pilots….. now you are saying refund the skill points or hey guys its now an over sized command ship… How wrong is this???

    Do you think all that time and effort is kind to anyone to say …..well, you can always use these massive ships to shoot a pos now and again.

    Who are these people? All high end old indy player base and hard core PVP vets.

    I guess many start inserting many nice things.

    So little love for null……. Killing off of the largest ships in the game that so many have aspired to fly and trained for over a very long time to aquire max skills.

    I have played since mid 2006 and have seen much in this game, made a lot of good friends, and friendly enemies.

    CCP if you are really looking to give a death kneel to wonderful game we have played of a good many years then continue this path.

    May i suggest making the EVE map 2 or 5x its current size and if you really want more members in the far ends of eve with more utilization then additional access to these areas might be viable, besides WH’s.

    If you do decide on a larger eve then make all the npc rats sleepers or harder………now this is risk vs reward.

    In this new area you can distribute moons on a more even basis than mess with what is currently on the map.

    If this area is so hard to rat then regular and supers would then again have value..right?

    Keep the ehp’s stations in current null the same but make it a real workout for the new area.

    Let us create our own stable WH gates…at great cost of course to this new home.

    Then take your thinking forward.

    We do not want to lose the most massive ships due to utter lameness.

    No more stupid nerf’s

    We, your players of eve enjoy a challenge.

    So give us one that lives up to the reputation that EVE use to command.

  • .

    Delayed local in Null will hit mining very hard. I don’t see how it’ll be possible in busy parts of space. Watching intel channels is the only way to avoid roaming gangs of interceptors currently. If CCP has a vision of people living and mining and building in Null then they have an odd way of going about it.

    • Sieveboy

      It would seem CCP has outsourced game design to those roaming gangs, what could possibly go wrong with that? Time to get some venture BPO’s (+2 warp core strength).

    • wormhole visitor

      You will mine same way people in wormholes mine only still with a lot less risk. Stop whining.

      • Thane

        A lot LESS risk? With delayed local? hahahaha… truly delusional.

    • Scaremongering

      did you ever think they want the reduction of minerals so that large scale ships become rare again. They did say that they were never ment to be prolific.

      • Anhenka

        The limit on capital ships is Tritanium and Pyerite. Most of which comes from highsec. In mining hours, mining the ore for the highends take a few % of overall mining time.

        Even a fairly heavy crimp on nullsec highend supply will have minimal effect between massively decreased demand due to supers being useless, WH’s picking up the slack, and the literally trillions of m3 of ore that will be saved up prepatch to buffer the effects of the change for years.

        Oh and with delayed local all the ratters bugger off, and nullsec depopulates, and the demand for all minerals drops like a rock as ship destruction decreases.

  • Demrocks

    Currently a 1.00 truesec system give about 18 mill per tick in a 600/700 dps ship that costs around 250/300 million.

    I have to warp to pos around 5 times per evening in that ratting ship.

    So lets say i rat 3 days a week to fund my pvp needs, with no local and a nice recon ship that cannot be seen on Dscan and not in local i would lose those ships 3 times a week…

    Thats great news CCP….massive amount of wealth i get there from ratting in nullsec…
    Fuck that shit lol.

    • Nalha

      Try mining where the isk/hour is lower and if you try to organize a bigger op spies crash your party soon enough.

      How the hell is this supposed to work?

      In w-space they don’t have cyno’s so people can make it work but this will be too much for null.

    • PhReaKin Stoner

      Isk Isk Isk my isk per hour isk isk isk grrr ccp isk isk per hour isk

  • Fat Elvis

    delayed local..

    WTF

    • Sieveboy

      It would seem that CCP is just listening to the small gang warfare loving fuck whits, you know the type, the wanker who whinges on these very pages, blaming the CFC for wrecking eve, blue donuts, blobs, intel channels etc, whilst masturbating over the last low sec solo kill (with an off grid booster, falcon alt cloaked on grid and triage on standby). They want a delayed local to make it easier for them. I have no time for those anti social twats, they are more a cancer on this game than the CFC is, with their toxic whining and hatred of any group more organised than themselves.

  • CCP has no brain

    Killing supers again…..

    Fuck CCP, just remove them already and give every player who has one, or can fly one $400 back so they can leave the game. The only reason any super player stays, is because of the TIME INVESTED into the game. Not because they like you CCP, in fact many just flat out HATE you for what you have done to there ships. Its not because they do not like change, change is GOOD, but it must be in a GOOD way. Nerfing is never good and only accomplishes XX issue in the short term. Its better to BUFF other areas of a game around the “problem” area rather then to directly nerf it. This in terms makes the players overall feel better about the game, and the changes, then cursing your name for making years of investment worth nothing.

    The downhill spiral started when supers were nerfed the first time, and were NOT properly adjusted (2nd smaller drone bay for normal types). It got worse with the jump changes and the COMPLETE ignoring of the players when the changes were applied to Jump Bridges and Fighters, both of which should of been EXEMPTED from the system, not some fucking stupid “reduction”.

    • Eugene Kerner

      Do you know how many supers there are?
      CCP would have to spend A LOT of money…

      This is a stupid change. Supers are suposed to be “Super” not only in size. Will fighter bombers have no function at all now? What will happen with people that trained very long for that? What will happen with al the super alts? People will not have much motivation to keep a sub on a worthless char. It´s not espacially funny to multibox a ceptor, a force recon and a logistic cruiser.
      Whats with all the entities that specialized in cap warfare, be it null-sec or more recently low sec?
      If I can not fly my caps anymore I will just go back and “grief the shit” out of new players that pass through low sec…unless gate camping also gets nerfed again.

      Delayed local….seems good…why not remove it entirely?

      • Gho Higyidr

        Heaven forbid ccp spend money with all they make in plex sales and alt accounts. Heaven forbid ccp cares THAT MUCH About their players the “fuck you,this is happening…if you don’ like it tough shit” mentality they’ve afforded on themselves. Lol

  • Alison King

    fuck you ccp , when this lot changes it the end of the game , no one will live in null sec , they will just live in npc space.or just unsub i no im thinking about it.

    • just saying

      i am with you Alison.
      Now show us your boobs

  • i♥ccp

    wow this is like an early christmas, thank you ccp, and don’t let the haters ruin your vision of nullsec!

  • Meera

    So, what with the proposed changes to supers and delayed local in null-sec, what CCP is really saying is :- “Thanks pilots of null-sec. Thanks for a decade of subscriptions. Thanks for all those extra accounts and all the time you spent training for supers. Thanks for battles like B-R and creating headlines outside the gaming world and thanks for all the other stunning content you provided so we could make promos like “This is Eve”. Thanks for being the “sandbox”. We couldn’t have have done it without you! Thanks. Thanks, pilots of null-sec. Thanks a lot… …NOW FUCK OFF

    • Manny

      I don’t get that vibe at all.

    • Scaremongering

      evolve or die…they explained why these changes are happening…players are too rich and certain ships were never ment to be prolific.

      • CCP “Logic”

        Then rather nerfing the fuck out of those ship, BUFF other ships to make them more viable in KILLING those ships. Like give Battleships a general buff when shooting at Capital Ships, for example. Instead of pissing off and just screwing there most loyal pilots. It would be better to buff something else that can threaten a super (other then another super).

      • lolCCP

        well whats the amount of super accounts ingame currently?
        1000 or 2000? whatever. supers not doing dmg to other ships anymore means CCP looses 1000 to 2000 accounts since there is no need to keep the accouts up. and yes that is direct money to CCP since a lot of those accounts are payed with RL money. good job CCP in letting the biggest part of the community down

    • Sneaky SOB

      If their going to nerf supers to oblivion the pilots should be compensated. CCP should just remove them from the game then give skill points and isk to the account holders. Like Meera said those players put a lot of time into the game. They don’t deserve to see that dedication spat on.

  • you asked for it

    Yeah you guys are right! Let’s go back to force projection, structure grinding, blue donut days of Eve. Man weren’t those days fun?

    • duh

      You mean the still CURRENT eve days? All that nerfing didn’t do shit to force projection but ‘slow it down a little’.

  • Baal

    Poor super pilots. I really do feel bad for you rich bastards now. Supers are officially nerfed to the ground. At least give the titans back their old doomdays weapons.

  • Jason

    Is this a joke? Your just going to burn all of the null sec community to the ground? -1 subscription. Thanks for the time I’ve pent playing EVE – but if these changes become real you will be losing a lot of subscribers. CCP – o yourselves a favor and for once, don’t ignore negative feedback on these ideas.

    • Matterall

      CCP listens to feedback – they reversed themselves on nrefing JF and indy ships, backed of making bombers decloak, and host of other crucial game changing mechanics. And those were mistakes (imho): Bomber threats continue to ruin diverse fleet doctrines, and logistics continue to feed empires, keeping them artificially big.

      I’d like to see them stick to their guns. They’ve spent a lot of time thinking and planning so this is definitely not going to be reversed. There is no plan B. But they may dial in a little.

      • CCP’s “Logic”

        CCP did NOT back off on the nerf on JF and indy. They STILL are affected by jump fatigue (90% is still fucking you over if you get into something else), instead of being IMMUNE to it like they should be.

        • yep

          Lets not forget their range nerf. JF’s got the bat like everything else.

      • nullbear

        They don’t… they present the most extreme version of the change, community cries, they back up a little and implement like they really want to, community thinks they won, CCP wins

  • Matterall

    1. More skirmishes – no more blue balling as a tactic
    2. More FC’s, with a lot less pressure
    3. More scouting
    3. New theorycrafting for ships, war tactics, income generation
    4. More diplomatic workings
    5. Lower barriers of entry on many levels: FC, nullsec, owning sov.

    This system just has WIN all over it: When you log in, there will be something to do because more people will be out patrolling, reinforcing, knocking out services. It’s like everyone joined Fight Club. That’s great for pvpers, great for harvesters and builders.

    Some of my best memories come from a time when roaming was king, mining fleets had protection, and scouts watched gates. I so miss travelers paying ransom and surviving. I hope some of old EVE comes back this year.

    The only thing that CCP needs to address is the “what do work for,” long range goal stuff so players feel like they are making progress as well as having fun.

    • Overall I do like the system, but I agree with what the Mittani said on this show today. Ihub should be smaller and the upgrade cheaper so people are more willing to invest in a system that they might not keep for a while. (or they just transfer owner ship instead of blown up) Also super should be able to dock.

      • Matterall

        I should listen to that show. I heard Crossing Zebras – Progodlegend and Grath – they love the changes.

        Fozzie did say (in the interview) they may spin off some functionality from the ihub to other new structures or make it a little harder to capture the ihub. That will prob get a balance pas before it gets released in 3 mo.

        • I would recommend that you watch it. They all like the new sov changes and are very positive about it. They also presented a bunch of ideas that would make the new sov system even better. So it made me feel much about the changes.

          • Matterall

            NVM – was a prob with my sound/earphones. Echo fixed.

            ***might be me, but the sound is terrible – processes delay, echo? Way too much noise reduction makes it that way. Rather hear the hiss.***

            also the cat was annoying. lol I’ll suffer through it. 🙂

          • Thank you for suffering through it.

  • lolFozzie

    Time to see my Super. SO happy I don’t live in null anymore. What a joke, lololol.

    • lolFozzie

      Er… EDIT… SELL my super.

      • PhReaKin Stoner

        3 bil, Final Offer

    • Agreement

      Agreed. You will never see people just willingly sit a super..30+ billion isk.. on grid in a fight to BOOST… No damage? Seriously then what’s the point? they’re already picked off and stomped on constantly.. haha RIP Fozzie’s sanity.

  • Anonymous Coward

    It’s unfortunate the Fozzie isn’t open-minded about the idea of fighting over timers, or tying them to the sov anomalies. That would actually give us bored line members something to do between timers.

    • Matterall

      Don’t worry, you’ll be plenty busy keeping your station services onlined. 🙂

  • Dick Hauser

    Delayed local + D-scan invisible ships = Ratting and industry? How to not die?

    • NoirWolf

      Safes + masturbating max range D-scan looking for probes. L2P.

      • Dying Bravely

        +scout

      • Travisuchonela

        Why would anyone do that as opposed to do missions or incursions on an alt in high sec? the pay is even better. There are already wormholes for anyone that likes delayed local. The game doesn’t have to be the same everywhere.

  • GrouchyOldGamer

    Off grid Titan boasters …. sweet …..

    • Parrforthecourse

      We’ve had these for years, right?? Don’t they write for EN24 and TMC??

  • hmm

    This guy is killing the game

    • PhReaKin Stoner

      No the current nullsec playerbase killed it. CCP are just finishing what youse started. You made your bed not CCP

      • Heptypoo

        What the fuck have you been smoking???? The player base played the game with the tools provided. They didn’t design the game, they didn’t make the changes CCP have made. So the virtual bed you keep referring to is the one CCP not only invited us into but tucked us in and gave a hug and cocoa before kissing us goodnight. They advertised the game based on the way we played the game. They made a shit ton of cash based on the way we played the game within the mechanics THEY created. Go fucking well watch some of the advertising videos and tell me I am wrong. What they are not telling the player base is they want to change the business model. They realise the growth of the long term player is limited and they do not have the imagination to come up with a new idea to extend it. The so called changes are not to fix the game as it stands but to extend the life cycle of the game to a younger, high turnover customer who pays for a few months and buggers off when something more interesting comes out. Rinse and repeat for a few years until SC comes out and really rings the death knell on their virtual universe.

        The Null sec player base have made this game what it is today you are correct with that statement but for the wrong reasons. They have made this game the success story it has become. Without the null sec player base say ta ta to 2/3 of the high sec industry, without caps/supercaps say ta ta to 60% of high/low sec mining. Without either of the above say ta ta to this game within 12 months because null sec is the primary driver for the majority of players and log in for the big fleet fights, the challenge of removing someone else from their home, the Russians steam rollering the north and then losing it, the Asakais, the B-R’s and all of the direct and indirect repercussions of those events.

        Many pilots have looked over the walls into null sec and wanted to be part of it but not had the stones to go in and take their bit of black stuff. Well here’s your opportunity, but I would but a few bill that without the challenges and rewards that have become commonplace up to know the woodie in your pants will be short lived.

        #nocluefozzie #noclueCCP

        • Dying Bravely

          Plays the game how they want in a sandbox, fucks the game up, gets mad when devs have to step in a fix the game because of playing how they want.

          • kill you’re self (in game)

            Writes in meme speak, in sentence form.