Previously, the “In its Wake Will Follow a Storm” article, reviewed events leading up to CCP’s announcement and predicted a storm of complaints would befall CCP. Indeed the storm followed, and delivered a torrent of feedback, just what CCP wanted. The comments section of the devblog is well over 150 pages so far. Articles on EN24 and other newsites garnered hundreds of comments, mostly ideas and misgivings. The whirlwind discussions are hopefully leading into FanFest where they can be discussed in front of panels of devs.

Lead on the changes is CCP Fozzie, who has only communicated once since the release of the devlog. When the controversial jump changes were announced last year, the lead on that mechanics change was (former) CCP Grayscale who was very responsive and seemed to relish out-thinking the player-base. In contrast, CCP Fozzie takes a very calm and cautious approach, as if he were trying to ease up and pet a lion with a thorn in it’s paw.

“Hey folks, thanks for the feedback so far… I want to reassure people… I can’t blame people for being cautious…There’s a lot of other areas where we’re seeing your concern…” – CCP Fozzie

Not to mention the amount of words dedicated to assuaging readers concerns in the devblogs, most of it indicating his understanding of player concerns. Considering the wide spread affect of sov mechanic changes, and the deeply invested veteran players it hits, CCP is listening to the feedback and writing notes without much of a defense of the mechanics.

CCP 2.O

CCP’s strident past had all the markings of a defiant young band of developers taking on the word and inviting the players to join them. EVE was an exciting place as devs delivered huge expansions, delivering loads of content to work towards. Dev’s were leaders and celebrities for the players, but CCP came to accept that piling more content on top of content was not the answer, since the real game was always the players competing against each other, even outside the game.

After CCP took a few years to fix some pain points, they hired and promoted, the very unlikely, CCP Seagull to lead the EVE developers. The quiet voiced, female, that practically whispered her way through presentations, was handed a game built by mainly Nordic men, that fostered a “Shoot’em in the face!” mentality by the mostly male players. The very unlikely Seagull, stood in sharp contrast to the virtual world she had been handed. Yet, she is a revered Executive Producer EVE , able to garner enough trust and goodwill to take EVE to a new level. Her quiet voice is eagerly anticipated, hushing crowds that are engaged with her in the direction EVE is going.

seagull

 Eco Systems

Seagull’s ego-light vision, to get CCP out of the way, and to focus on player’s and their relationships with each other, seems to be the basis for CCP’s new development as well. The traditional development ideas of creating new “thrones to conquer,” are being replaced by the creation of an eco systems (weather, terrain, lunar cycles). Both systems move players, but the former can eventually be solved by a king of the hill, while the latter can mutate into a different set of living conditions. CCP can use levers to manage null-sec sov like governments manage an economy, which fits nicely into their new role as custodians of New Eden, not creators of it.

This strategy was a part of goal number seven:

“We have intentionally built many aspects of the new system that can be easily adjusted and tweaked. This will allow us to incorporate the feedback from the community before release, respond to problems or stagnation after release, and replace specific parts of the design with new types of gameplay as they are released in the future.” – CCP Fozzie

Note “the details” missing from the sov devblog:

Fitting requirements for Entosis link module – will dictate the ships can be used, however big or small. We only know they discourage supers right now. If it needs to be a new sov ship that can easily be created to replace the module.

Invulnerably schedule – dictate how much sov can realistically be defended. If 1:100 structures go invuln in your 4 hour window you can control a lot of space, but if 50:100 structures are at risk, not so much.

Loot schedule for Drifter salvage – determines how pervasive the e-links get, which effects tactical strategies like how much you protect the link ships or how many you bring. R/K selection theory comes to mind.

These details were deliberately left off until after the players of New Eden had a chance to theory craft the new mechanics. After the feedback is in, CCP will probably err on the side of status quo, for a dev cycle before they carefully nerf as little as possible, much like the nerfs of recent months: a little at a time. With shorter release cycles CCP can keep the game tuned, and simmer null-sec steadily. The sov mechanics are a fluid framework that can be dialed in by CCP.

“So if problems show up in discussion and playtesting we’re happy to let players try to find a counter and then relatively easily step in if that counter doesn’t materialize.” – CCP Fozzie

Most of the issues players are objecting to can be dealt with by the players as they figure out how best to counter and counter-counter tactics. If at some point an imbalance arises, CCP will likely make adjustments using their levers (ratios, frequencies).

 ccpcustodian

Early Fears

Time Zones

For many years, alliances picked up corporations in different time zone to make sure they had 24 hour coverage. Australian time zone corporations were coveted because a lot structure timers were set to downtime (in Aussie TZ), hoping that the 30-60 minutes time-out would discourage fleet participation of the attackers. Alarm clock Ops were common in “time zone warfare.” The result was that an alliance had members from all over the world. The Prime Time mechanic may put a chill on that, segregating players into time zoned corporations and alliances.

“So you’re going to see us asking a lot of questions in a number of different areas to the players who have opinions on the way we handle time zones in Sov. The goal is to get to the core of the concerns people are expressing about these mechanics, figure out what player needs we are missing in this draft, and see if we can’t design a system that meets more of those needs more effectively. I don’t expect we’re going to make everybody happy, as time zone mechanics are one of the stickiest design issues in a worldwide single shard MMO. However we do think it’s likely that your feedback can help get us to a better design than what we have right now.”- CCP Fozzie

oldsov

Defending Space: Empires in Constant Decay

Most incumbent sov holders (CFC and N3) are troubled by the harassment they will receive, since the attackers can reinforce on a whim, or blitz your holdings and cause a huge mess. This, day after day, even when most people are away on RL vacations.

Sov holders have a false sense of entitlement to be whole and should get comfortable with always having some structures in reinforce mode. The UI insures that defensive strike force leaders can see where the real trouble spots are and send a team, like a fire department putting out actual fires. Trying to prevent reinforcements should be reserved for slow days. Empires in constant decay, just like RL.

That hyper vigilance lasts four hours and when prime time closes everything is saved that was not contested. Any griefer without real intent will have his bluff called when the Prime Time window closes. Now it’s time to go on the offensive.

dust-eve

Sidelined Capital Ships

Pheobe’s jump drive nerfs and fatigue were a fix for TIDI, which was a fix for slow servers, a reality of a single shared server. The nerf was pushed by an exiting dev, and definitely complicated matters for sov holders, but it didn’t shift the map, nor did it stop big fights initially. What it did do was allow large sov holders to kill solo unaffiliated capital pilots in their areas, usually while they were preparing to sell the ship.

before-after-sov1

Phase two has very little to do with jump changes. They appear to have been born of two different strategies. The jump changes were a nerf to force projection reach, but the new sov system made them irrelevant to sov, thus making jump changes practically obsolete. In fact, jump fatigue works against the “defenders advantage” when using alliance jump gates.

Even if super capitals are needed to meet another super capital force, the supers and dreads are too slow to move around the constellation as a group, and they are too vulnerable outside of a group. Super capital fleets will still be used to capture and hold moons, which is where they will be used until those structures eventually change to the new system. By then, supers will probably have a different role which integrates into the sov game.

Independence

Once the novelty of having the alliance name on the map faded, all that was left was the wealth you could extract from it. When an alliance hit it’s natural limit, it stopped growing. Then high end alliances figured out how to “rent” sov by putting up dummy alliances that the renting corps joined. The result was the top 4 of 5 alliances were renters, ruining the ranking leader boards. All vanity was out, it was all about the ISK.

Now that Territorial Claim Units are simple flags, big alliances may allow renting corps to form their own alliances and plant their own flags. Big alliances may focus on defending Stations and Infrastructure Hubs only. CCP will likely introduce new sov structures in the future as the sov system grows.

Wealth

Owning sov has the same benefits, but is potentially a lot more trouble now. The return on investment may not be worth the lifestyle so new metas on making ISK off sov may emerge. Renting space may invert to extortion rackets on neighboring sov holders as the big alliances will show up for stations Capture Events if nothing else.

Phase three will probably incentivize sov holding and ultimately destroy the rental concept by taking a note from EVE’s Planetary Interaction system, and slowly migrating a new value layer over all of nullsec. Alliances will need to be driven out of their walled cities by famine, plague, NPC locusts, and lured to other people’s space in pursuit of vast wealth. All in one large eco-system that is dialed in by the custodians of New Eden.

locus

It seems the whole concept of sovereignty is in flux. The CCP 2.o may be creating EVE 2.0, a dynamic, if not organic, environment worthy of being coveted by the ageing MMO genre.

 

—–

***Updated:  Fozzie addresses good questions on “EVE Down Under” Essential listening 🙂

Fozzie break big news:

  • Supers become some kind of force multiplier giving wormhole like bonus’s to fleet or system or allies. They will not be damage ships anymore
  • Delayed local in nullsec !!  Heavy hint. (AFK cloakers will never be nerfed, now everyone will be one, ha)
  • Might nerf PVP probing – to require second warp-in point, instead of being able to warpin in on target (bomber nerf)
  • Goal of removing fleet warp
  • Mechanics will stand – maybe some adjustments letting AU timeszone in on more action, but he didn’t sound too convinced.
  • Incentives to own sov area already there – anom ISK generate tons of wealth
  • In space activity and that can be disrupted will determine sov bonus always – not anything that can gamed, like turning ISK into bonuses.

Overall, the above article was on target. The old way of building EVE is over:

“Fuck HP based objectives… They push people into requiring larger fleets… I’m very glad we get an opportunity to remove that cancer from EVE.”

Like supers, massive dps ships, were ok when they were out of reach for most people, but it’s been years and now there are too many. The “legacy design debt” is being crushed under its own weight. Their previous design concepts of bigger, taller mountains to climb cannot resist the sleeper hive-like collective of EVE players, especially after years 11 years.

  • Sov expenses were supposed to be too expensive to rule all of EVE
  • Battleships were to be rare.
  • Wormeholes were to be to hostile to live in

The second decade will be different than the first, with (eco) systems in place that they can simply tweak to dial in a fast and fun game experience.

We have a lot of tools, thanks to the way we make modules in EVE, we have, essentially, gotten very good at being able to adjust There a lot of effects we can put on them, there a lot of different attributes of ships we can play with, so if anything gets our of control, it’s very easy for us to adjust it…to get good game play.

As for the fears the theorycrafters have expressed about being menaced by small fast ships taking sov:

Our core goal is, to win an objective with an entosis link, the victory should go to whoever has reasonable dominance of that location, whoever has military control in real terms. (on adjustments) The goal is to use as light of a touch as possible, but as strong of a touch as we need. Go with the minimum amount of interference on what people can fly. “

Phase 3

Phase 3 doesn’t exist like phase 1 or 2. It will be all the other little changes that happen in the future. So phase 3 will have its own phases and won’t be expansion leading.

CCP Fozzie says the incentives to owning Sov are already there so nothing new is coming to make people want to have sov.

“We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “

This means renting or extorting people in other space will still be a goal for coalitions that cannot use all the space themselves.

supers

Supercapitals

There isn’t enough compelling roles for them and some of the specific roles… they are too strong and that’s not the kind of balance we want.

Capital Ships are a class that is getting weaker with these changes … capitals have not been in a good balance place for some time … in some places they are too strong. Moving in a direction of wanting to shift them in the direction of wanting to shift them towards active, on grid, but non damaging effects. have the kind of things that act as force muiltipliers, the kind of thing you want to have in your fleet but that dont just blap people.

Somethings like the T3 Balance are higher priority. We are very aware that this set of changes make the urgency higher for it.

..Bring these things on to the field where they really matter, where they have defenses but they are also big vulnerable assets that the other side wants to kill, and they do cool things that dont just involve blowing people up. Things like building upon the ability that the super has now with the projected ecm burst into some more interscene effects like that things like on grid strong effects like Wormhole effects that affect everyone, things that reflect mobility a bit more to build upon that kind of foundation of the titan bridge, maybe some more in system mobility ….”

 

CCP is moving supers to being on grid force multipliers – much like enhanced bonus ships. Where they are a few per battle to affect the grid – like ECM bursts, wormhole type effects, in system mobility (like micro jump bridges), etc. They may still do damage but without high HP objectives in the game, they may not need as much dps as they have now.

Currently supers are used for a few things, structure grinds, counter drops, and intimidating, other than that they are parked in the garage.  CCP wants to see more oppertunities for pilots to use them as perhaps centerpeices to fleets of all sizes.

Love for AU time zone

Interestingly, CCP Fozzie has chosen “EVE Down Under” to, not only answer detailed questions, but also to break news, with the future of supercapitals and null-sec delayed local possibilities.  Fozzie also was the guest speaker in EVE Down Under’s player gathering in 2013 (CCP Rise and Mimic attended last year).

It was a good will gesture to the players in the Australian time zone., who already put up with downtime and now have to deal with the issue of “prime time” being primarily US and EU time zone based.

Conclusion

Considering what CCP Fozzie was doing – asking for input from the hardest hit AU time zone players and to use their show to give out very important information, it is hard to accuse CCP of ignore their players.

With their recent track record of delivering on promised features, and being daring enough to take out features that complicate gameplay (Indy Teams), the conclusion players should reach is: CCP won’t let gameplay break, and will dial in what is needed to make EVE engaging.  There are way too many days before these changes hit to worry about how they will change the game.

Most sov holders are on the record, fully supporting the changes to sov and (some) even on the later changes: This “EVE Down Under” podcast, The Mittani’s “Meta Show,” Crossing Zebras podcast featuring Grath (PL) and ProgodLegend (CSM/Nulli), and other sources show that these changes are very welcomed.

 

 

  • All the tears here made my entire month.
    Now I have enough supply for the weeks to come!

  • Nofearion

    well anyone want to buy a nyx?

    • fozzieistwat

      When i see the incoming changes …… NO thanks

    • PhReaKin Stoner

      3 bil, final offer

  • Necromonger

    I cant even imagen how many subs CCP will lose…
    Thousands and thousands of players lost.

    As a Goon i love TONS of the new features but there are also tons of retarded changes with it.
    Our Fearless leader already has a massive plan to fuck over nullsec with these new changes.

    NPC regions will be FILLED as those stations cannot be flipped and your assets are safe compared to Nullsec.

    Gues whats going to happen o/

    • Meera

      I agree. At first I was angry and wanted to quit the game but now I’m just determined to adapt. No matter what changes occur, the strongest, most organised alliances will still be the strongest. The area of space the large alliances inhabit may be reduced but the amount they control will stay the same as small alliances won’t be able to defend sov on their own and renters will just become vassals of larger alliances paying “protection money” to not have their sov repeatedly flipped.

    • Gho Higyidr

      Tbh the Sov changes I doubt will really affect any of the large blocks much. I’m no goon and have zero fucks to give …but the Sov will have a bigger impact on n3 with that massive renter empire. Will definitely be interesting to see what happens

    • NoirWolf

      You guys can cover maybe a few regions of space… and you’ll inevitably fall like the rest. Sounds like allot of angry goontards huffing the Mittani chem mix and thinking life’s their for the making in EVE :). There are what? 4-5k goons per total? piss off enough people and that’s gonna be a fun gang rape to watch.

  • WTS ongrid booster

    WTS nyx

    • PhReaKin Stoner

      3bill final offer.

  • Jay

    Sounds like CCP is scuttling its own ship. They have no idea what the player based wants and are basing sovereignty on what a few CSM recommend.
    EVE will need a miracle if it hopes to make it past the second decade.

    • Dying Bravely

      Thats cute, mr nullbear thinks he’s the player base.

  • AFK

    Every time the topic of stagnation has come up over the past year there was always the suggestion “just unblue each other, start shooting each other, it’s a sandbox you can do this” and the response from the donut was always the same “no no no we can’t possibly because reasons”. Now my counter response to this was always the same “if you don’t, then CCP will, as they actually have to sell this game to put food on the table”.

    Well here we are and it’s happening. If you are one of thoes who doens’t like fatigue, or fozziesov, or whatever they comes with next, remember, instead of blaming Fozzie and Greyscale (for doing the job they were employed to do), maybe start blaming the ones who forced their hand in the first place

    • Necromonger

      Sell this game to whom ?
      Hisec pubbies ?

      It was nullsec alliance’s who made Headlines worldwide to sell this game, not CCP.

      With these changes who even wants to live in Nullsec ?
      You want to defend your space every evening for 4 hours a night 7 days a week ?
      Seriously ?

      Removing Local so you can get blops on your head day in day out ?
      All the while you make 15 mill per tick in your Gila in an Anom ^^ ?

      Why the fuck do you want to join a Nullsec Alliance when you can make BILLIONS in a wormhole ! and have more fun without all that mandatory bullshit everyday !

      Or join a Hisec Incursion fleet to make 150mill/200mill per hour with zero risk / effort o/

      What reason do people have to ever be part of such massive workload for such shit rewards….

      • PhReaKin Stoner

        Crazy how all this revolves around isk to most people.

        • Necromonger

          Isk fuels the economy.
          No isk no sales no deals no nothing.

          Its the most importand thing in Eve Online for tons of people.

          How are people going to buy their new toys of destruction when their ratting ships get blown up for the 5th time and their isk dries up ?

          What you going to do if you cannot fund your pvp losses ?
          What you going to do if your sub runs out ?
          What you going to fit your ship with if no isk left ?

          Isk should be the thing wars are fought over so each member of an alliance gets a piece of the wealth.

          Be it good space to rat or mine in or play the market with industry.

          • PhReaKin Stoner

            PvP’ers dont PvE or grind for isk. Its been the norm since 2010. Alliance SRP funds ships. That comes from moon goo. Unless youre saying pvp’r been liein all these years and are actually carebears more than the hisec playerbase that always gets bashed because they just wanna mine or mission.

            Isk isnt the topic though, The Sov mechanics are. You will still make isk the same you always have. The ticks may just be a lil smaller.

          • Necromonger

            The risk will be 100 times higher but the payout stays the same.
            At least in wormholes you cannot be blackopsed, in nullsec everything goes from a lone ganker to hotdrops to big roaming fleets.
            If i need to make my isk somewhere else then in nullsec due to the dangers why even bother playing this way in a sov alliance.

            Nullsec is about our empires carving out their own space with their rules.
            We made headlines for years that pulled in many players.

            And now CCP Fozzie thinks he knows what is best for Nullsec ? after 6 years of nothing ?

            We WANT to change nullsec also, ask every nullsec player and he will agree that it has to change.
            But not the way Fozzy is doing it, i have years of assets in station, tons of pvp ships and modules and god knows what i gathered over time.

            Now i can lose this in 2 days by a handfull of scrubs if a few of my guys are offline or on vacation cannot play those few days ?
            Freeport mode ? realy….losing the 1st timer is to much punishment.
            Now attackers can play docking games and make your space total trash.

            But thats not all, what about those expensive Ihubs / TCU’s the logistics dropped in place, it gets destroyed so easy that demand cannot keep up and with the logistics nerf incomming those poor souls will burnout so fast.

            They are the backbone of any alliance i dont envy them, but they are so needed and wars cannot be fought without them.
            How are smaller alliances going to deal with that ?

            How will they upgrade their systems ?
            CFC can flip regions with ease making those guys bleed isk out of their ass untill they are broke or go back to whatever they were doing previously.

            What about those guys who trained years for supers ?
            They just get the finger from CCP.
            Its like saying your most loyal costumers to go fuck themselves after being on your side for many many years…

            I dont know man……i dont know.
            If Sov warfare turns out like some sort of second job with no extra benefits for the sov owners then they might make the biggest mistake ever and lose big chunks of their playerbase.

            It might pull in some extra dudes who “want to give it a shot now” but realy if people think thousands of players will join nullsec now they are dead wrong.

            CCP has a record of doing stuff the wrong way while they think its best for the game and this change might turn out realy bad for them.

            I will keep one account active and see what happens and if it turns out the way i think it will its was a blast to play trough this game for many years.

            I remember Ultima Online with their big patch that killed the game.
            This migt turn out to be something similar.

          • NoirWolf

            Do only probe scanned anoms and watch d-scan. Fucking scrub talking about wh while being the retard in d-scan sites.

          • necromonger

            you realy compare WH to Nullsec ?

            Comparing signatures on scanner to nullsec gates ?

            WH compared to the new nullsec is 10 times more safe, you cannot get blackops cyno’s on your ass.

            You can see new sigs popup on your scanner to see if danger is comming or not.

            But whatever dude

      • delay_is_good

        I don’t understand why to delay local in nullsec only. Why not in all sec space ? why not in low/hisec. the change of local delay in hisec will be great for wardec alliances etc.

      • Dun’Gal

        Just like to point out that it wasn’t nullsec that attracted me to Eve, in fact everything I saw about null seemed to be a bore to me. Lag, structure grinds, etc. etc. No, in fact it was an advertisement about being a space pirate that piqued my interest, and then blogs on the subject cemented that interest into an eve career that has spanned 5 years, living nearly exclusively in low sec.

        Argue all you want about the publicity that your big null fights get, but the truth of the matter is, it created equally as much negative publicity as it did positive for the same reasons I stated it appeared boring to me.

        I will admit these changes are not going to change what I do for the most part, nullsec politics et al, still look boring, but it doesn’t mean I think the changes are negative. They are a step in the right direction from the look of things, and frankly you null dwellers needed a swift kick in the ass to shake things up, anyway.

        Sov harder to hold? Check
        Making isk becomes more risky? Check
        People threatening to unsub because CCP made things more difficult for you? Check – what’s that saying I’ve heard so often when other areas of space are hit with changes that are percieved by the lazy and risk averse as “the end of Eve!”

        Step in line and do what the rest of us have done over the years, and adapt. I can think of a number of changes that have happened over the years to the “pirates” or percieved “bad guys” that were touted as the end by many – and after all was said and done, I’m just as happy now as I was when I joined. Truth be told I’m better off now than I was then. And guess what, Eve is still here, and people keep subscribing.

  • ZSL_good

    everybody that thinks this changes is in order to fix the “blue doughnut” is either an idiot or blind,
    this changes is obviously solely based on profit and changing that game model. That’s it.
    back stabbing agian and agian the old player that DONT pay CCP to play,
    this game is turning to be call of spaceships online, jump in the game, join a group that fight in your time zone have a nice fight log off, play for half a year and move on,
    no more “your actions affects the whole universe” no longer huge battles no longer be part of an empire,
    i seriously dont understand what is everybody bitching about? you dont want big TiDi fights?
    roam lowsec, you dont want to be a part of something big? go to lowsec, we are around 150k players in nullsec and we had it pretty good until now, why the hell a few players that DO NOT WANT NULLSEC cry about it? is it because of our culture? are those pilots angry that all the interesting news comes from nullsec empires?
    if this will really come to pass, and something like incarnagate wont happen i surely will unsub all my accounts, tween fleets i got solo/small gang pvp, but why take the ONLY special thing that eve had to offer, The huge clashes like b-r and asakai, and remove them?
    the answer is agian, money, CCP wants more money, and its better to have new blood changing every half year, instead of long term players that will just use plexs to sub their accounts, keep saying “ohhh tasty tears of PL and CFC” but you are just a fucking puppet in a game you dont understand,

    • PhReaKin Stoner

      ‘DONT pay CCP to play’ Even if you use PLEX. You paid CCP. Just through someone else.

      ‘a few players that DO NOT WANT NULLSEC cry about it’ Your nullsec brethren agree that nullsec needs a change, maybe not in this form, but they do. the people who do not want null do not cry, they do not even speak of nullsec.

      ‘i surely will unsub all my accounts’ With an attitude like that, you will not be missed. Make a difference, type up something coherent and without CAPS every OTHER word AND MAYBE someone WILL hear YOUR idea. (Typing like that will never feel or read right) You have 3 whole months. Stop thrashing about and start taking action.

      I will not speak on tears, Your post says it all. Youre the one acting like a puppet, mimicing stuff everyone else says that isnt even a final iteration of what is to come.

      • oooo

        who cares we need fresh blood not nulll sec gangbang drama queens

        • PhReaKin Stoner

          thats what i said….

  • NC.Guy

    well you can be damn sure they gonna loose a lot of super toon accounts

    • necromonger

      They have no clue what this will do to the game, namely Nullsec.

      They are under the impresion the current changes are going to attract people to nullsec.
      That people like a second job for 7 days a week.

      3 accounts unsubbed 1 to expire and i keep one active to see where this ends.
      I wanne be there when CCP needs to cut their developer force in half by lack of income.

      • Matterall

        The barrier of entry is coming down – it will take less to play in sov, take less to FC, take less to join an established null alliance (they will want the bodies).

        Can you imagine how strong Shadow Cartel, Agony, Rote Kapelle, Lazerhawks, Dead Terrorists, are now – they can compete if they want to, or take up merc work. Faction War corps are now the experienced pilots. These guys can dabble in null-sec if they want to.

        • Gho Higyidr

          Ccp has indeed shown light on non sov entities. I’m happy for this. The design for supers however is retarded. The rest I’m indifferent to or excited about.

          • Matterall

            There is no design for supers yet – it’s in the ideas phase to keep HP based objected out of EVE. The point is CCPisn’t going to build higher and higher mountains anymore so capitals are going to be useless if they don’t change.

            How they change is still up in the air.

            Maybe they become micro jump centers that can orchestrate a battle by rapidly moving squads from one area to another, like using chess pieces on a board. Who doesn’t want to be that cap pilot?

          • Gho Higyidr

            No damage output just seem like an idea brought to light by desperate grasping at straws. Ccp already made them a bitch to relocate..make them defenseless and you’ll likely never see them again. I don’t even enjoy flying caps anymore these days. Just my opinion

          • Matterall

            Yeah they have been getting nerfed for a while, and they are defenseless, when alone. That’s why supers pilots try to join big alliances to protect their investment – making the problem worse:

            What they are good at, they are too good. But hey are only good for a few things. That’s not the balance CCP likes.

          • Gho Higyidr

            It shouldn’t be about what ccp likes. We play the game and pay for it. Compromises should be made. I never joined a big alliance to protect my investment. I got myself a super Because i wanted a super. I’ve had one since 2008and built my first one in a small alliance when supers were rare. I still hold that same sentiment.

          • NoirWolf

            Actually once that Titan change hits… the blue ring of derp is screwed… once guerrilla warfare can be waged smaller entities will start plowing in with gusto.

          • Gho Higyidr

            Eh, i doubt it. Ccp has tried to eliminate the blue donut for years now…unsuccessfully.

          • Travisuchonela

            No they won’t. Numbers are all that matter, especially now that supers are done. The large blocs will still decide who has space and who doesn’t.

          • Candyman

            Compromises have been made all along the development of EVE, and all it did was create the culture of entitlement in Null. Feel free to quit over it, but EVE is about to become a brand new game after years of stagnation and nullbear apathy. Adapt and have fun, or GTFO. Your call.

          • Gho Higyidr

            I left the sov null scene. Never once have I felt entitlement. I have no complaints about the sov changes. Before you flame, read the context. Which was about supers and supers only.

          • Madkicker

            Gimmie isk.

          • Gho Higyidr

            No. Gimme your isk. :p <3

          • Gho Higyidr

            And further more these changes won’t disrupt the blue donut. I don’t know why ccp thinks it will. Lol

        • Necromonger

          It will take an ernermous amount more to stay in nullsec as your sov is under constand threat 7 days a week for 4 hours per day.

          what makes you think you keep your sov ?
          unless you live in a shit system that provides worse income then a 1.0 Hisec system who is going to be recruited to defend your space ?

          All these comments of good changes ! finaly we can take space !

          All these people forget you need to build infrastructure and rat your balls of to keep the index high.
          All those structures and POS’s that need to be onlined and fueled.
          All those FC’s you need to train and command your small fleet.

          Lets see how long the average eve player last with these burdends on their shoulders for their leaders who think its all easy mode to keep all that stuff active and replace all those ihubs who are going to be destroyed.

          Its going to be hilarious to see what nullsec will become.

    • 10yrBitterVet

      So? It’s about time since supers proliferated from the greed of the Nullbears in the first place back when so many of these self-entitled idiots made TRILLIONS off of that starbase-moon poop bug. For at least 18 months, hundreds of towers were generating bogus materials for pure profit before someone finally blew the whistle. Small wonder there was a spike in super production for the same time period.

  • Shuckstar

    “Supers become some sort of force multiplier giving wormhole like bonus’s to a fleet or system or allies. They will not be damage ships anymore”. About time to be honest.
    “Delayed local in null sec” fuck yes !!

    • ok

      There won’t be any “delayed local” in null sec. That would make PvE completely impossible and your space worthless.

      • Matterall

        CCP won’t let game play break – they will probly replace local chat (free intelligence) with some mechanism – like a perm long range scanner on ships (different ships have different ranges) or structures that can detect ships in a certain range, or radar ships in general that can detect ships constellation wide… who knows what they can design, but they are not going to let gameplay die. They are doing the opposite.

        • Dick Hauser

          Industry teams….

          • Matterall

            imo, Teams actually broke indy – it made it harder to calculate profit. Remember the proposed new invention system (savings of materials for diff levels of failures) was DOA. Builders want to calculate their min/max so mechanics that complicate that are not welcomed.

            CCP removed teams and canceled new invention system – because they made gameplay worse.

            I used Teams and wished more had been put into it before giving up on it. I had developed a production style to adapt, and poof, it was gone. Indy needs more love – something to make it active.

          • Dick Hauser

            Yes, so not only are they willing to break game play, they are also willing to take their “children” out back and shoot them.

          • NoirWolf

            You shitlords need to learn wormhole tactics. Boo hoo. Cry me a river and drown your Rattler in it.

          • WH and K space

            In WH you don’t have free intel to your opponent(ratting/mining stat online), every day he MUST find a way to come to your WH.

            If you compare WH and Null sec use your brain.

          • Travisuchonela

            Why does all of eve need to be exactly the same though? I don’t see the benefit since there’s already a place to get that kind of play style. Just delay showing up in local a few more seconds or upon decloak.

          • Candyman

            If by “breaking” you mean forcing players to actually make effort to earn their ISK, instead of sitting on the porch and waiting for the renters to grow their cotton “yea high”, then yes, it’s getting fucking smashed to bits. WELL SPOTTED, DICK.

          • .

            The desire for predictability is a basic tenet of business decision making, and the whole “teams” concept flew in the face of that. Evidence that CCP either doesn’t have a good grasp of business practice themselves, or that they set aside what is for what’s “neato.”

            The variable invention results were still predictable, but only over a large sample size. This created an obstacle for the little guy only.

          • Guest

            Which didn’t break anything. They actually did fuck all. And they removed it

      • Travisuchonela

        enough homogonized eve. Null doesn’t need to be just like wormholes. Leave local but make it so that you don’t show up in local until you decloak or after an extra 10 or so seconds. Problem solved.

  • Matterall

    small update: I’m a huge fan of Seagulls for what she does and what she represents herself. Don’t let my bad writing confuse that. 🙂

    *edited that paragraph describing her for clarity.

  • Daegan

    -10 Subs. This was the cap for me as I was already on the fence given the way things are moving. So long Eve, it’s been a long 10 years of playing.

    • 10yrBitterVet

      Hanging up the Scrublord booties, are we?

      • NoirWolf

        He can’t deal with having to think. Gonna be fun seeing all the winners quite EVE like this and stop shitting up the atmosphere.

    • darby

      why you leaving. what part did it.

    • DaveTV

      That is cool, they’ll pick up another one from me. Be sure to flood the character markets with your clones, helps drive costs down.

  • lol

    No more fleet warp = easy mode for bombers

  • lol

    How can people (ccp) fix nullsec when they aren’t allowed to play in it…

    • aFK

      Isn’t that what the CSM is there for?

      • lol

        Nope they dont do much to be honest and alot of people really have a misconception of what the CSM do

      • Candyman

        The CSM is there at CCP’s convenience, not the other way around. As you saw with Greyscale, and on numerous other occassions, CCP doesn’t have to tell CSM diddlyshit if it doesn’t want to. Helps to prevent those pesky NDA violations, too.

  • TheButcherPete

    Wow, CCP Fozzie may now be hated far more than Greyscale.

    FUCK THESE CHANGES. Owning Sov is now anti-fun.

    • NoirWolf

      Cry scrub cry… the bad all days are coming back <3

      • Necromonger

        Nullsec will be more empty with each month passing after June.

        The hardcore carebears in nullsec unsub or move to a Wormhole to carebear isk in tenfold of what is granted in Nullsec.
        Hell even Hisec Incursion grant more isk in absolute safety.

        Nullsec is on a colision course of being rammed into the ground with these burnout mechanics.

        FC’s and Line members will have to be active 7 days a week for 4+ hours a day.
        That sounds like fun o/

  • Candyman

    Let it all fucking burn… because I love the crispy, crackling sound of Nullbear and Shitlord roasting on an open fire…

    • JimFromIT

      Except this means that there will be nobody to hunt. You can’t attack sov to provoke fights without either tying yourself to it or have it taken back the moment you move on. Retaking the sov will be so easy under this mechanic.

      • Candyman

        Bullshit. You assume that one needs the mechanics of “Sov” in the first place to actually provoke fights and that your precious “Sov” is the only thing worth fighting for. There are always targets to hunt. Pro tip, mate: Undock.

  • Plukovnik

    Hahaha, tens of thousands carebears formed supercoalitions to assure effortless and risk-free ISK farming, now cry that their farming is gonna get neither effortless or risk-free. I love that.

    • darthlol

      I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror, and were suddenly silenced. I fear something terrible has happened.”―Obi-Wan Kenobi

      • Dick Hauser

        Thats no moon…. its a nerf!

        • Ogast

          No my friend. Thats the sound of accounts unsubbing

          • Dying Bravely

            And real players resubbing

          • Necromonger

            real players ?

            what real players ?

            the ones who never leave hisec ?

            why would those players all of a sudden want to move a nullsec ?
            they are forced to defend their space 7 days a week or get booted or lose their space lol.

            only a hand full of systems are worth having in nullsec, the rest is to garbage to fight for.

            and who will fly all those ihubs and upgrades to nullsec ? a handfull of wishfull thinking players who think they can defend their space xD ?

            oh man there is going to be so many disapointed pubby’s .
            most delusional people who think they can now defend their space against the evul N3 / CFC / PL Grrrr.

            Nullsec blobs will adapt, but not without losing many nullsec players who aint got no time for a second job.

  • I33T PVP FTW

    I love all this shit, don’t be so afraid of change people, give this a chance.

  • Sienna

    Fyi Fozzie was not at EDU 2014, it was LogiBro.

  • test

    Only thing I do not like is the hit to AU timezone, being an ausy myself its already hard enough getting into fleet fights, now they are going to make it 10 times harder.

    • Matterall

      I’m up in AU tz a lot and will it really be that different? If you hear the interview Dark Razor is the one that makes a valid point – that AU can’t really start a final fight. Otherwise it seems like not much has changed. Maybe AU players become more valuable, becasue prime time will always be a “relational” time. depending on who is involved:

      If I an being sieged by Goons, I might not want to face them at EU or US tz. I might turn my primetime to AU where they are weaker. So, then, if you are in Goons as an AU player, you might see some real action.

  • fuckdullsec

    ITT 0.0 whining about the possibility of them not being able to run their bots in perfect safety anymore.

  • Common-Sense-101

    Bye bye local in nullsec!!!!

    • Move op coming up

      Bye bye nullsec o7
      We welcome fw and wh online…

  • DaveTV

    I have to lol at all the guys going “I am unsubbing X accounts!” Were they the sames ones that said that when the fatigue change hit?

    • Thanks for the fish CCP

      Did you see the actual numbers after phoebe hit… CCP and EVE is going to shit now that all the good ppl left… Subs are decreasing every month

      • Candyman

        Those would be the ISBoxer bot babies unsubing, and quite a few of the nullbears who can’t afford to pay their rent anymore “because ~reasons~”. And the good news? It’s only just beginning…. :popcorn:

      • Andrew Hunt

        Bring in the Star Citizen and Firefly Online this summer!

  • Religious Fanatic

    This is what happens when your best devs leave for Riot Games. You are left with devs that have no vision.
    So now I am supposed to pay 15 EURO a month to boost from a COFFIN!
    KEEP DREAMING CCP!

    • Candyman

      Pssssst… CCP devs that have left are actually infiltrating other “corps”… but don’t tell anybody. ;P

      • System

        They said so, you think so. But in reality they have to get a new corp every month because their allway get kicked by inactivity. But they are in a 0.0 corp and have to pay their 4 accounts with plexes …. or not.

    • Name

      Yeah, Fozzy you are my hero, i earn ISK in 0.0 to get what? what do you think? Yes right, to buy big and cool stuff. And i do pvp for the reason that i can earn ISK to pay my accounts. What do you think i should buy in your “new” sov? You killed my goal, so i do not need ISK, so i do not need to do PvP, so i do not need to life in 0.0 where i can earn the most ISK in a way of playing i like, so i do not need to play eve with 3 acc, so i do not need to play eve. Fozzy what are you thinking is the long time goal of many eve players? Yes, to fly something big or cool. Something that you have to work for long and hard and not eveybody can fly with. Something you mades have respect for. For eveythink else you do not life in 0.0 you can just join RvB or factionwarfare.

  • Farmers Ratting Team Member

    Breaking coaliations, exile minority tz guys from sov, self destrution of ccp

  • Rolf Harris

    Generally I like what i am reading. We are making changes to SOV and also how the ‘Empire Coalltions’ now defend their space. The return of Pheobe has seen good changes already and the Jump Range nerf has worked.
    However i am unsure about the changes to Supers. We are talking about a potential 25b – 30b isk ship and making it a ‘fleet booster’? Supers and Capitals do need to be changed but not too the point where alot of isk/time aquired building them has been wasted. I own a super and would much prefere to strip it back down to Capital Parts and build it into 10 dreads (insurance)….than make it a proper coffin for wormhole type bonus’s.
    Would the Super have to be on Grid? Or just outside the POS slightly like your drone assist mechanic which you are removing. Perhaps give Supers a Seige Mechanic for when your boosting? Or remove ECM burst and allow them to be ECM’d. Remove Fighters so only bombers are option ( BL have now learn’t that lesson the hard way).

    • Travisuchonela

      Too early to freak out about these additional supercap nerfs, but I don’t like the idea of removing damage dealing from supers in exchange for some kind of links role, if for no other reason than there will be a ton of supers that will never get used.

  • theowlsarenotwhattheyseem

    Those at ccp or in the game who think structure grinding is what killed sov fights and null in general are delusional. Initially it was the uneven spread of the most valuable resources, the resulting power (cap) buildup, and the political agreements between the major players/blocs. Eve was “won”, back then and that has not changed nor will it. Sov is not what makes blocs sustainable, it’s moons. PL is proof of that, plenty of moons in lowsec, and no official sov.

    Admitting that supers and titans should not have been in the game is too little too late. Deal with it, ccp, but NOT at the expense of players who spent real money buying time to skill up for those ships. Hint: Supers and titans have to be part of an overall solution, with clear and highly valuable roles. Thinking you can roll back SP accumulation and training, and that everyone will be happy flying subcaps is plain wrong.

    Saying that battleships were never intended to be so widespread is a clear indication of not understanding basic economics and the basic parts of Maslow’s theory . It’s like saying the Chinese will never drive cars and remain happy with their bicycles (and especially the factory owners happy with bicycle sales income). Is this the new team saying the old team did everything wrong ?

    Delayed local chat in null ? Recreating wh space without wh benefits (like income) ? Wait what ? You want to get rid of all intel ? Or just have us put guards 23.5/7 on every gate (while the remaining ones have fun with entosis link harassment) ? That’s a job worse than any sov/structure/roid grinding and not a game.

    Enlighten us on the benefits of holding sov again ? And why defending sov you hold should not give you clear advantages over the attacker ?
    Wanna fix sov, and have new widespread fighting ? Then rattle everyone’s cage and redistribute R32/R64. Yes, that would be like a server reset. Hit them in the wallets, they’ll respond. Don’t want to deal with legacy ? Then let the moons run out of goo, and let other moons be “rediscovered”. Just like oil.

    Was there no “ISD” on that EDU podcast ? Wouldn’t this interview have to be halted on the grounds of “Rule #5. Trolling is prohibited. Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering etc.”

    • Golden Wonder

      There should be a mechanic for depleted moons like there is asteroids. Respawns could potenatially be anywhere and i would keep this option highlighted around the low sec region. ( Sorry PL ) New Moon mining sites in low sec???????
      If you own SOV then you could say your system has better mining upgrades and hence a better yield or whatever the case maybe.
      Note that doing this could massively increase the price on R64’s where Dysproium is already at 6.2b a month unreacted.

      • Shey

        This is stupid. If you want a moon, go take it. It’s not hard with jump fatigue preventing a big cap fleet landing on you from half the universe away.

        Moons are fun (aside from the POS interface) they generate fights, and provide a tangible benefit to the people strong enough to hold them.

  • Necromonger

    CCP thinks that its fun to babysit your space 7 days a week 4 hours a day, who doesnt want a second job o/

    They also think a line member makes as much isk as a WH guy in a C5, no local but got to nerf ratting into the ground with all the added changes o/

    They also think bombers are fine, Battleships slide was shown they are in a good spot eh Fozzy o/

    They also think all those super accounts are clapping their hands and padding Fozzy on the back with a job well done after years of loyalty shown to CCP troughout the years, making many headlines and giving CCP tons of free advertsiment and new players o/

    All these changes to make nullsec accesible for people who will never ever set foot in Nulsec or have no intention to hold sov, let alone defend or attack it.

    Lets see how many devs can pack their bags same time one year further when Nullsec lose half their players and the crying pubby’s who never intended to become part of Nullsec see less and less updates they so advocated to CCP by making these retarded burnout changes.

    Star Citizen becomes alot more interesting all of a sudden.

    • If only you had friends in your alliance so you wouldn’t have to defend all that sov space by yourself everyday…
      What loyalty to CCP? The second you hear rumors the whining and threats of canceling accounts begins.
      Star Citizen wants you!

  • The Sexpert

    If they change supers and caps I will be leaving. As part of a small low sec allaince that uses only supers and caps to fight with and have a lot of high SP high value pilots. This essentially removes the way i want to play. I have no interest in flying t1 rubbish or taking sov, and so far all of the changes that have been to fix nullsec have made lowsec worse for me. I have 3 supers, a titan, 2 dedicated panthion carrier pilots and 3 dedicated blap dread pilots that will be made more than compleatly useless with these proposed changes. Fair enough change blobsec if you can but the idea of having a non dps super sitting on grid boosing is pretty daft.. I have dedicate 9 years and around £17000 in subscriptions and plex to eve/ccp in that time, it would be a real shame to just quit but you leave me no incentive to play.

    Congratulations Fozzie you Pigfu*ker, you have finally broken eve for me, its taken you a little while to achive this but you did it. ^5

    P.s. No you cant have my stuff, its drifting into digital oblivion with the rest of this game post cap changes.

    RIP eve online and welocme newbro faggots in t1 shit online.

    Yes i am mad bro.

    • Please quit permanently and biomass all your characters before information on the real changes get published and you change your mind. Wouldn’t want to make an informed decision now would you?

    • Candyman

      The next time you feel it necessary to empty your bowels, find a quiet room and think of it as “special alone time”. We won’t mind, and we won’t miss you. Really, really.

  • 5yroldbitternoob

    That really kills null ratting and mining. Im sure i will move out of null with these changes. Theres wh’s, fw and incursions still to do.. Still these changes sounds uber retarded to me. Why would anyone be in null after this? There not gonna be even ratters anymore to hunt. So have fun to roam 60 jumps in empty space. Recons cant even be seen in d-scan anymore.

    Its a shame tho. I liked to live in null and i liked using big toys. And even more i liked to kill big toys. I really enjoyed those pings that told theres supers tackled. Was good reason to log in and have some fun. No more.. Ohwell.. Soon to be just memories…

    GG

  • bob loblaw

    Ok I get structure grinding sucked. It did.
    Did anyone at CCP look long and hard at what new activity is going to be created by the changes? You will now need standing defense fleets that just sit around half the day. People who cant really go do other stuff they need to be on standby.
    Id much rather be forced into a 1hr fleet that only killed structures with high HP then be volunteered to sit on standby in case for half a day.
    Also, changing the role of supers from “super” ships to passive buffers….wtf are you thinking? Something like super “interference” would be better. Too many supers in system = all supers get some form of negative effect, like having a damper and shield/armor repair nerf.
    These changes while good with intention seem the kind of earth shattering gameplay change that sees 70% of a game move on because their game no longer exists. Look a lot of people hated super spam and null sec renter space as a concept. Will all of those people who might have left due to it all return to replace everyone else leaving from these changes? I doubt it.

    • Matterall

      I think you bring up a really important point – I’ve been thinking a lot about this too. Maybe the semi-afk lifestyle that EVE offers in big block sov gameplay is necessary for type of players that have stuck EVE for a long time (capital pilots).

      We’re older, have RL obligations and have been playing for up to 11 years now. Even Highschool kids are now past school and possibly having their own children, or well are into their careers. How can an active EVE fit that?

      Doing RL and then just responding to the CTS’s you can manage vs having to log in the same time every day. Not sure how that plays out.

  • After commenting on people whining maybe it’s time to complain about the state of EVE myself:
    Delayed local in null? Wtf? this isn’t WH space..
    Please don’t make me join an intel channel, use a scouting alt or adapt the way I play the game in any way, shape or form…

  • Tim

    Quick note: slow servers and tidi aren’t a reality of a single shard universe, they are a reality of a badly written codebase which prevents the use of threading. If EVE were able to be multithreaded and written half decently to handle it, 4k players in a single battle would be trivial running 1 sec ticks in a game like EVE. They simply can’t load that much work onto a single CPU core.

  • 10yrBitterVet

    Goddamn, at this rate CCP won’t even need “TiDi” to balance server loads. There appears to be enough of you shitlords getting your knickers in a twist and getting ready to piss off that CCP will finally conquer LAG. Thanks guys, it’s like CCP couldn’t have done it without you. Emphasis on the “without” bit. 😛

  • Onemoduletorulethemall

    Systemic entosis leads to a pandemic Fatigue syndrome

  • Scots_Jim

    Personally I’d like off-grid boosts fixed, maybe just by applying a range bonus to them instead of full system, say about 500km. This would mean would have 2 results, the first would be to encourage a higher use of command ships. The second would be to use capitals and supers to provide fleet boosts, naturally nerfing their damage output. If you combined these changes with restrictions to capital movement the upshot would hopefully see capital ships evenly distributed throughout an alliance’s space. What I would hope to see from this would be fleets of subcaps built around a command unit of just a few capitals with command ships to boost each squad or wing.

    The restrictions to movment would also have the effect of forcing a capital using fleet on the attack to commit fully to engagements as they would have trouble retreating or escaping enemy forces. This would hopefully promote forces attacking a system to either win the battle or die trying.

  • Ailok

    If these changes ever happen, in that day i will quit eve after 9 years. i already consider eve even worse then before…

  • Alison King

    FozzieSov is fail