On the evening of 27th February 2015 I was contacted by Non Erata, a Canadian Eve Online player and former member of Vanguard Frontiers (VAF). He wanted to give me information of a heist that was 6 months in the making and that may put his name into the top 10 Eve Online thieves in game history.


Vanguard Frontiers was started back in 2005 and has been in a number of large alliances including INVICTUS., Interpid Crossing and Black Legion.

Non Erata, speaking to me via teamspeak, said how during his time within Vanguard Frontiers, he learnt that they were a corp with close links to Black Legion. and would follow them on deployments to seed the local market with alliance doctrine ships and fittings for an inflated price. However they are no longer affiliated with Black Legion. having left them around May 2014.

Erata was a new player when he was recruited into his target corporation. He had read about Eve Online and been playing it with a friend and Erata had decided that PVP was where he wanted to start, but low on funds, he bought a few PLEX and sold them on the market. Now able to fund a life of PVP, at least in the short term, he headed out to give it a try.

After one engagement Erata started talking to some people in local and was soon on his way to join up with Vanguard Frontiers who had just recruited him, a fresh faced newbie who had only been playing for a couple of months. He was seduced by their promise of a Ship Replacement Program, to help him fund his need for ships, and also by the then CEO Tessa Yor.

However, unfortunately for Vanguard Frontiers, Erata had been reading the ‘Top Seven Dick Moves in Online Gaming’  on and had been thinking ‘I could do that’. So while his corp started training their new member, Erata was already scoping out the assets and planning his moves. During his time with the corp there was the normal sorts of turmoil when the old CEO stood down and a new one took over, Ladygrey.


I spoke to Tessa Yor, the ex-CEO of Vanguard Frontiers who stood down around 5 months ago. Tessa confirmed that she knew there had been a recent corp theft from VAF. She admitted that she didn’t know all the details but that the assets that had been stolen would have been both corp and members personal assets. VAF operates an open corp hanger policy so that their corp members can work together on industry and also so that they always have access to things they need to play the game, whether that is ships, modules, minerals, blueprint copies or fuel.

Tessa also said that due to the fact that all of their members use the corp hangers for one thing or another, and that VAF keep it stocked with modules and ships for members to use, there is the very real possibility that 600 billion ISK may have accumulated over the past decade of the corps history.

She also revealed that Vanguard Enterprises has been a victim of corp theft before, the last one was when a member stole over 80 billion ISK worth of assets from the corp, which happened around 18 months ago. Every time it happened they’d make changes in recruiting policies and hangar security, yet every time the theft gets more elaborate and devastating. It seems the only way to keep the wealth accumulated through the hard work of generations of dedicated members secure is in a personal hangar which defeats the point of having a corporation.

Tessa went on to say that she feels that there should be stern repercussions for those who partake in this type of theft and that the current game mechanics don’t inspire groups working together for the greater good, for fear that you will be ripped off if you trust the wrong person.

She feels that, as the game stands at the moment, there is no reason not to become a corp thief as there is no downside, especially if it is on an alt which you will not use after the theft has occurred. It is more likely that the person involved will become a ‘Hero of the universe’. In real life situations, if someone stole from a company they worked for, they would be arrested, charged and maybe put in jail, there would be serious consequences.

Eve has no consequences, and while some people like this about Eve, some people do not.

Tessa believes that the way Eve handles it’s corporation asset management needs work and that, while individual hangers and BPO’s can be locked, there should be a much easier way of sorting out access, because at the moment a lot of work falls on the shoulders of the CEO’s to sort it out themselves, meaning they get bogged down in admin work before they can play the game. She feels that the corporation asset system is causing a lot of issues within Eve and that it has probably caused a lot of corporations, and alliances to fall by the wayside of history. It is also another factor why she is no longer a CEO.

Speaking on a personal level to me on Teamspeak this evening Tessa said ‘The fact that a trusted player, someone you have worked with for months or even years, can turn around and do something like this dents your confidence not only in the person who committed the theft but also in your other directors and members. It taints your view of the people you play the game with. This is one of the reasons I am no longer a CEO and I passed Vanguard Frontiers to Ladygrey.’

Erata said during his interview that, even though he was new to the game he could see that Ladygrey was ill-suited to the CEO role and that a number of her decisions were met with consternation by others within the leadership sphere. However it is also worth noting that Erata and Ladygrey had a falling out over a number of battleship losses. Erata claims that the SRP for VAF included ships lost due to PVE while the leadership claimed that only PVP ships would be covered. This ‘grey area’ caused a rift between Erata and the new CEO Ladygrey.


In the following six months Non Erata and an alt by the name of Erata Vuld climbed the ranks of leadership within the corporation. First off he started by getting friendly with one of the active directors, Azrael Dawnbring. From there he was able to build his influence within the corp, starting by leading rookie PVP roams to help train new members within the corporation and soon becoming an official FC and then finally a trusted director.

His work with the rookies of the corp meant he had access to a large number of assets designated to help train them. He then worked hard to convince the CEO to open a new area of operation within the corp, that of a group of pilots that wanted to go into wormholes.


The corp set up two wormhole operations, one where veteran players could make money as a group in a Class 3, and a Class 1 where rookies could get their teeth into how the wormhole space worked and how to run the sites and live in the space securely. The rookies in the C1 were told not to bring in personal fits to use in the wormhole and that the corporation would provide what they needed, however the veterans, who he decided could afford to lose a couple of billion in assets, had no such restrictions to what they could bring in.

At this point, playing his role of trusted director, he set up a Teamspeak and paid for it himself, while starting to siphon some assets off the top of the income from the wormholes. After a couple of months of working hard to make the corporation wormhole operations a success, he knew he would not be in a better position to pull off his major heist.

It was then time to pull the trigger. He started by stripping all the K-space assets from the corp as soon as ladygrey had logged off for the night and he was the only one online with access to the assets. The main bulk of the assets were in the low sec system of Akora but there were also large amounts in Frulegur and Reisen, so he moved a couple of alts around to make sure he could take all the assets in one swoop rather than have to travel between the systems on his main and take more time to complete the job. He took everything from all of the corp hangers, except for the one locked down set of items, the corporation owned Original Blueprints.

Across 6 characters in 6 different areas of space he managed to snag a whopping 600 billion ISK in assets, which included 30 billion in just one can full of Tech 2 items, 16b in capital components, and around 500 hulls of different classes and tech levels. He also managed to take around 20,000 blueprint copies, which included the blue prints for a range of carriers and super carriers. In the Akora system he also managed to off-line and steal 5 faction large towers and all their fittings and assets.

When it came to the wormholes, he started by taking out all the assets from the C3, while he used his authority within the corp and a story about moving to a new wormhole, to convince some rookies in their C1 to evacuate the wormhole and take everything from the bays and then the tower itself and contract it to him in high-sec ready for the ‘move’.

Below are a couple of screenshots from the corp chat channel that occurred after the theft, Miss Alt is an alt of the CEO Ladygrey.

corp theft

corp theft 2

I managed to speak to Ladygrey, CEO of Vanguard Frontiers about the theft;ladygrey1

Mail Lite: Hi Ladygrey, thanks for talking to me, I have been contacted by a player by the name of Non Erata, who claims to have stolen 600b in assets from your corp along with a number of BPC’s including Super-capital and capital ship ones. Can you confirm the above is true and if so, can you answer the following questions?

Ladygrey: Yes about 550-610

Mail Lite: Give me a rundown on the corporation, what it does, how it works etc:

Ladygrey: Mining/building/WH/PVE/PVP generally good fun.

Mail Lite: Was there any suspicion on your behalf that Non Erata was untrustworthy?

Ladygrey: No.

Mail Lite: How did you react when you found the theft had occured?

Ladygrey: First I was upset, then mad, then just sad. We have a chant when some one joins ‘One of us! One of Us!’ I guess he was ‘none of us’ in this case.

Mail Lite: Can you give me a rundown of the most expensive items he stole. Or was it lots of smaller items that amounted to alot of ISK?

Ladygrey: A bit of both. Most of the ships, skill books and T1 and T2 modules were in the borrow/free hangers. What Erata `did was use a bunch of alts ( Sexy Scanner Slave, Alt 4f, Ginelle Gaterau, Veronica Villancourt, Neressa Natale, Erata Vuld and Jaain) to grab things nearly all at once. We are not sure what role his roomate Shadoweh and his alts needz reps and shadow 7 had to play in this. But do know they benefited.

We did lose a hand full of bpos that were in a can for transport, and we had somes bpc’s we been using on for years.

Ship wise? The most expensive corp loses were the Bowhead, another freighter and a orca as well as building materials.

Mail Lite: There were five faction towers taken down from Akora, can you tell me what their uses were and what sizes?

Ladygrey: No 1 minmatar Domination, 1 Caldari and 2 Gallente So four in total but he didn’t take the mods we picked them up ourselves.

Mail Lite: I understand he had help from some rookies in a C1 who didn’t know what was going on. Will they be punished?

Ladygrey: No there will not be any punishment .The plan was to relocate them from one c1 wh to another c1, of course the POS and some their assets never arrived in this case.

Mail Lite: Can you see your corp coming back from this or is this the end for Vanguard Frontiers?

Ladygrey: What set back ? It’s like a basement that floods. Pain in the butt, not the worst thing to happen.

Mail Lite: Is there anything you would like to say about the situation? Or to Non Erata in person?

Ladygrey: Perfect timing for us that he did it now, and not 6 months down the road.

Mail Lite:  I understand that this you have an open corp hanger policy so that members can work together and share assets, is this something that you feel you will have to change now?

Ladygrey: It is our policy, that the “rookies” have access to free pvp ships, skill books and some resources. I am sure many corps have experienced a player raiding the “free-bee” hanger. In this case Non simply raided all of them at once before anyone noticed.

Mail Lite: Do you think CCP should have some sort of punishment for players who do this type of thing?

Ladygrey: No punishment, but we shoud be able to track that char/alt to the original whom is behind the scam. Right now you can just create a new account and do it over again to another corp.

Mail Lite: If you have anything else you would like to say then please do.

Ladygrey: Yes, 1/2 off the corp loss were not from the corp, but from other players in wh and station, he stole a lot of faction battleships and tech II haulers, blockade runners, battlecruseres and heavy dictors and so on and on. Thats the bad part of his plan, the corp will survive with out a blink, but a lot of players are now hurting and we are trying to help them back up again.

During my TS interview with Erata he said that this was not the last of his heists, he enjoyed the build up and the pay off, and even though he no longer needs the ISK he will continue to be to strive to be the number one corp thief in Eve history. He told me that he is already involved in a number of other corporations through a series of alts and is even now setting up his next big job. He is looking to make a name for himself through espionage and theft and is open to chatting to people who either want to know more about his work, or even to hire himself out to other players to infiltrate their enemies within the game.

Non Erata, the character involved in this operation will be kept subbed, and as it is now burned as a corp thief, he will be using it for contact purposes only.

Erata also said that if anyone is looking for any items in Akora, capital mods and components mostly, to contact him on Non Erata to talk prices as they are a pain in the butt to move and he would rather not have to if he can sell them on in the local area.

If you just take the assets and leave out the 20,000 BPC’s that were stolen then 600 billion ISK is around $13,110 US Dollars. This has been worked out using the current PLEX price in Jita.

The question that Tessa brings up is a good one, is it right that this person, who has broken the trust of people he worked with for 6 months will now be able to reap the rewards of a whole corporations efforts? Should he be lauded as a ‘Hero of the universe’ or should he be condemned as a thief and a liar?

Eve online has always been lauded as being an open sandbox where anything goes, but when one persons actions not only hurts his corporation but his former corp mates as well.

At what point should CCP step in on things like this? What do you think?

If you have anything that you think should be reported on EN24, please contact me at @mail_lite on Twitter, email at [email protected] or Eve Mail me in game.


  1. Erotica 1

    Congrats on your successful operation!

    March 3, 2015 at 06:24 Reply
  2. Sjörövar Fabbe

    Hahahaha… When I started a new alt, a GM contacted me and told me to do the carrer missions and then join a player corp as soon as possible…
    I asked him why and he answered to learn faster and more about the game mechanics. I asked him then why I should join a wardeccable corp or a corp where dickheads can empty hangars with no consequences since the “multi” player mechanics are total shit and CCP refuses to overhaul them but instead wastes time on nerfing ships and fits that have evolved to perfect usability…
    Did not get a straiht answer but an”I just wanted to help…”

    should have made a screenshot of ot…

    March 3, 2015 at 06:42 Reply
    1. poopfeast420

      Yeah those GMs have to deal with serious autists on a daily basis.

      March 3, 2015 at 07:39 Reply
  3. Tim Alistar

    Pffffffff, regulation just makes games boring. It’s meant to be a sandbox game. If you don’t want to lose money, invest it in something else instead of a PC game.

    March 3, 2015 at 08:11 Reply
  4. TcheQ

    Bigger thefts have occurred in Entropia Universe in single items. I’ve been in an alliance that was robbed of $30-50000 USD of stuff in one go. It destroyed three people’s lives.

    March 3, 2015 at 08:22 Reply
    1. Bjork

      That’s hilarious. Anyone who’s life is destroyed through an online game doesn’t have a life to begin with.

      March 3, 2015 at 09:26 Reply
      1. rlisk

        Because electronic money doesn’t real, right?

        March 3, 2015 at 12:40 Reply
        1. I'm not even

          das it mayne; das exactully wut he sed.

          March 3, 2015 at 14:20 Reply
      2. Jay Jackson

        Entropia Universe has an entirely RMT based economy. The entire game is based around real money, unlike EVE.

        March 16, 2015 at 16:41 Reply
    2. Patricia Hernandez

      Hey TcheQ,

      That sounds horrible. Would you be willing to share more details for a potential story on If so, throw me an email, I’d love to chat. [email protected]

      March 3, 2015 at 21:50 Reply
      1. Truth

        Get your #gamergate bitch ass out of our game!

        March 4, 2015 at 00:38 Reply
        1. Jay Jackson

          Actually, we’d much prefer it if misogynists like yourself were banned. I get that you probably just don’t know how to handle yourself around a woman, but maybe that just means you should grow up and go outside.

          March 16, 2015 at 16:40 Reply
  5. Devin Kennedy

    While I understand CCP’s determination for EVE to be the truest embodiment of ‘sandbox’ gaming, stuff like this just gut-wrenching to those involved. It simply flies in the face of any sense of justice.
    And what is worse is CCP’s unwillingness to implement some form punishment mechanic for people that choose to do this sort of thing. Throwing an extra few million onto a bounty on a character that is already into the billions is just pointless, when the character can just run to a station and just sit there.
    And what sickens me personally is what is in EVE’s TOS, point 4, I quote: “While EVE Online is a persistent world, fantasy role-playing game, the claim of role-playing is not an acceptable defense for anti-social behavior. Role-playing is encouraged, but not at the expense of other player.”

    March 3, 2015 at 09:16 Reply
  6. Wobz

    There needs to be a game mechanic that allows you to track down these toons and all their alts. These things have a real world value and should be treated as such with proper repercussions. This is for all the thieves, hi-sec gankers and awoxers.

    March 3, 2015 at 09:21 Reply
    1. Jay Jackson

      They actually have zero real world value whatsoever, as nothing in EVE can be sold for real money legally.

      When they tell you a “real value” it is simply how many PLEXes you could buy if you sold all of the assets in game.

      March 16, 2015 at 16:38 Reply
      1. Wobz

        Many things in this day and age are not corporeal and yet have intrinsic value. This may be a reflection of the $$$ or the time (= $$) someone has put into the item. I believe there has already been a case (several years ago and I think in the EU but not sure) where someone won a court case over theft or damage to in game items.

        Yes it is “just a game” but then it is just your treasured item, your family member, your pet, or whatever. Who are you (or anybody) to tell someone else what the value of something is to that person?
        When I had some in game assets stolen I was sad but get over it.
        When my father died I was sad but I got over it.
        When my pets die I am sad but I get over it.
        If you destroyed my treasured books I would be sad but would get over it.

        The only truth here is that people will use any excuse to be a***holes and sadly once on the internet this increases by a very large factor.

        March 16, 2015 at 21:46 Reply
  7. John

    This is plain sad. I dont think CCP should do anything to thieves , but better security options for assets would be the key for management.. Also, it wouldnt hurt the game, as something like this makes complete sense (banks dont open vaults to anyone walking in.. )

    March 3, 2015 at 09:56 Reply
    1. Jason D

      There are good security measures for assets. The assets were locked up. The corp then gave Erata the keys.

      March 6, 2015 at 09:13 Reply
  8. Imperator Cydonius

    They should find this guy irl and beat him with a baseball bat then say they were just roleplaying Concord

    March 3, 2015 at 10:47 Reply
    1. john

      LOL. best line of this thread!!!!

      March 3, 2015 at 15:32 Reply
    2. Jason D

      Who is worse – the person who uses game rules and mechanics to steal, or the person who calls for physical deadly violence against someone in real life?

      March 6, 2015 at 09:26 Reply
  9. Gsy

    I call Bull, this was just an arse, why risk such a high level ‘planned’ heist like this by skimming off moon goo in the past.

    As normal just a member of a group of peeps who abused the trust placed in him to steal, do this outside the game you would either be lying low forever or get a nice made to measure pair of concrete shoes..

    It is a game but abuse of trust at this level can only hinder CCP aim of a social and cooperation based environment.

    Recognise all the part of the game but only a risk and true achievement with appropriate consequence. In Eve just but another toon and do again.

    All I see here is lying and abuse of trust, getting close to peeps you would shite on in a heart beat, game or not, makes me feel very uneasy if honest.

    March 3, 2015 at 11:05 Reply
  10. Kaplar

    CCP should never step in. They have allowed us the open sandbox and they should keep it.

    March 3, 2015 at 11:16 Reply
    1. Gsy

      Agreed, just allow it to flow both ways as a sandbox should, ability to do however ability there is prevent whilst maintaining free play.

      March 3, 2015 at 13:07 Reply
  11. wow, you are my type of scumbag. just wow. some people excel at pvp, some at market pvp…some? pv corp. as stated by someone in chat afterwards, “I would RMT and buy hookers in a heartbeat” LOL. Good on ya mate.

    March 3, 2015 at 11:32 Reply
  12. Gsy

    Don’t get me wrong, CCP should not intervene in the act however certain powers could be changed to enable controls and acts to be segregated. Example of this would be daily withdraw limits or authorisation of payments, approval of alts ‘status’, more segregation of assets and sov control. All of these should be easily inforced in the ‘sand box’ which is commonly referred to.

    However, just on the basis of human nature, we tend to have fun with friends. Eve is a game to have fun. The people who don’t have fun with friends are bullies, rapists, psychopaths, people with very little life and real friends or just people who love the creation of peeps tears, a fact evident by the copying of the chat.

    In summary not the sort of peeps I personally would like talking to within my corporation.

    Player solution at the moment is to keep it as tight as possible therefore not encouraging the co-op part of the game. However if it was a ‘Sand-box’ peeps would have the access to implement controls to prevent/detect it.

    Just all a bit yuck.

    March 3, 2015 at 11:50 Reply
  13. Azrayl

    Well, I’m not sure how this person can be allowed to play any games any longer. I mean he didn’t just steal virtual stuff. He stole real money. Most of the victims paid for their subscriptions and they probably also paid for extra PLEX’s to buy other assets. And it doesn’t end with stealing all these peoples real money. He also stole a shit ton of time. Just think about how much time he stole. Who can estimate the real value of that? Where’s the fun in ruining everybody else’s fun?

    He is a criminal both in game and in real life.

    March 3, 2015 at 12:52 Reply
    1. Gsy

      Step to far imo, he played a virtual game to the virtual rules in place at the time. As much as I think this guy is not a nice person in real life, he is not a criminal. Need to still maintain the divide.
      If troll, caught me, well done, I feel ‘owned’…

      March 3, 2015 at 13:06 Reply
    2. Grismar

      If you think you’re buying anything in EVE with “real money” when using PLEX, you didn’t read or didn’t understand the EULA.

      March 3, 2015 at 20:30 Reply
    3. Jay Jackson

      “He stole real money.”

      No, he didn’t. RMT is absolutely not allowed in this game. People might have bought PLEX using their real money, but they don’t even OWN that. You don’t own a single thing on your EVE account, you are only granted a “limited license” to anything you “own” on your account, as long as you follow the ToS and EULA.

      This thief did absolutely NOTHING that was against the rules of the game. And by CCP’s view, the assets that were stolen have simply changed from one person’s limited license to hold the items to another’s.

      March 16, 2015 at 16:36 Reply
  14. Bittervet Stig

    If you stole $13000 from work or from an individual, real money, you would be charged and probably go to jail. Do you know this guy’s real name? Call your lawyer and call the cops. He should go to jail. Theft is theft whether in a game or in the RL. If CCP wants to allow this crap that is their problem, but there are still laws.

    March 3, 2015 at 13:40 Reply
    1. Ben Moore (eyepatchdude)

      Stig, The issue is that you don’t OWN anything in Eve, every digital bit is CCP property, A theft in Eve is only a “Theft” in that you had access to something owned by CCP, and now someone else has it.. Except in cases where someone exploits a broken system in the game CCP has stated that piracy, scamming, and espionage are all fair game.. If Erata had someone gotten access to the items in the locked container (the BPOs) then CCP would reimburse the loss, and punish erata for the exploit.

      March 3, 2015 at 13:57 Reply
      1. Bittervet Stig

        Good point on the digital rights aspect, but realistically, it could be argued that what was stolen was time that was bought and paid for via subscription fees. The way the legal system works, it all comes down to whoever has the best lawyer. I would like to see someone who does something like this punished. It all goes back to the fact that CCP’s “great” game is really just a massive troll I guess.

        March 3, 2015 at 14:49 Reply
        1. Daniel Heckert

          The thing is also that if you pay to watch a movie at a theater, or pay a regular subscription to Netflix, or (probably the best example) buy chips to gamble with at a casino… you are willingly either giving your money away or at the very least placing it in jeopardy for the sake of entertainment. So I could see it being an interesting legal battle if it happens. In my opinion at least, players ought to think of time and money they willingly convert into in-game resource as at the best a gamble, and more realistically they should consider it to be an entertainment purchase which they are not legally entitled to get back.

          March 3, 2015 at 19:50 Reply
        2. Jason D

          Bittervet, you obviously don’t understand a) the law, b) in-game, or c) logic. Nothing was stolen IRL. People playing Eve pay money for an experience in a sandbox, not for ISK. Mining is part of that experience, and so is getting your stuff stolen. The faulty idea that loss in eve could (or even should) result in RL lawsuits is silly because it would invite people to take legal action if they got ganked (how is that different from having money stolen), got killed in lowsec, or heck, how about grabbing a lawyer because you lost your ship to the computer in PVE (remember – PVE is game content, but so are the actions of other real life player when in a sandbox). Ultimately, if you don’t like the game, don’t play. It’s really silly to play (or be involved with in any form) something you dislike so much,

          March 4, 2015 at 05:44 Reply
          1. Bittervet Stig

            What I dislike is a game that is by its very design often meaningless. If there are not at least somewhat fair rules governing how the game functions, then the game is pointless and in the end nothing but a troll. We constantly talk about risk versus reward in EVE, but ignore the elephant in the room with regard to corp theft, that basically by the game’s very core design in that aspect, there is zero risk for the theft and massive reward potential, with zero opportunity to ever even the score or apply any even minute level of retribution against the thief, particularly due to the anonymous alt system. If I am ganked in empire or killed in lowsec, I at least have an opportunity to hunt down and try to get revenge on the ones who attacked me. With corp theft, the individual responsible simply transfers the goods to another anonymous alt and never faces any responsibility for their actions. In fact, they are now hailed as a hero. Another asshole feature of an already much too asshole-filled game.

            March 4, 2015 at 13:14
          2. Jason D

            You think that you’re correct in your summation of the problem, when in reality you’ve missed the point entirely. You’re not right. You’re also not wrong. You’re describing your feelings towards a sandbox game, and everything you say is valid and meaningful, but only really to you and those who think like you.

            Many, many others do not think like you, they (for the most part) like how things work. And their feelings are as valid as yours.

            If you do not like the game, don’t play it. If you like it but would like changes, work with the CSM and through existing game channels to see if others like your changes. Getting upset and calling the game a troll really doesn’t help, and in fact makes you appear very much like a child throwing a temper tantrum (no insult was meant by that comparison).

            As to the actual problem – corporate theft happens a lot more than we know, but it also has a much lower impact (generally) than is immediately apparent. I’ve been scammed, I’ve been robbed, I’ve learned, laughed, and moved on. Most corps do the same.

            March 4, 2015 at 16:08
          3. Bittervet Stig

            Many many people like the game just as it is? Wow, well, I’m so glad we have you here to tell us these things, boyo! What would I have done without your pearls of wisdom. I just don’t know. I remember when I was a smartass teenager who thought he knew everything, ah such bliss! The facts though don’t exactly agree with your stance on this, chump. CCP is in financial trouble and if they don’t figure out a way to make the game more enjoyable and playable for more people the game won’t have posterity. The existing game mechanics as they stand are based on a game premise devised by people who do in fact seem to have wanted to make people very frustrated. They cause a lot of wasted time and frustration, when this is supposed to be a game. Yes, games, something that people do for enjoyment. When I say EVE is largely based on a troll it is not throwing a temper tantrum, (nice attempt at patronisation, btw, but go back to your community college debate course and give it another crack, I think you may have missed a few points) it is speaking from experience, and is a completely calm and measured statement.

            March 5, 2015 at 13:33
          4. Jason D

            You surely are acting as if you are still a teenager. And your personal attacks do nothing to help you get your ideas across.

            Eve is a sandbox. It’s harsh, it’s rough, and it’s fun. If you want something softy and cuddly, go play World of Warcraft. Yes, Eve needs to do some things better, and do some things differently. And they are working on that. But what it doesn’t need to do is make things so easy that Eve loses it’s identity. Which is what you sound like you are advocating.

            March 5, 2015 at 14:35
          5. Bittervet Stig

            All I am advocating for is a corporation and alliance system that isn’t all or nothing, and for a bounty/retribution system that isn’t a joke. Until that time, my statement that the system is based on a troll stands true.

            March 5, 2015 at 14:40
          6. Jason D

            Corporation and alliance privileges are pretty fine grained, and are most certainly not “all or nothing”. You can give permissions based on character, role and station. These stories about people taking billions are people who have social engineered their way to the top of the food chain in their corp (pretty much all in director roles), been part of a small group given permissions, and have then betrayed their position. People att he top will ALWAYS be able to do this.

            As to the bounty system being a joke, I’d argue that it’s not. The current bounty system is actually rather painful and inconvenient for people who leave their “safe area” of space, and actually provides motivation for the bounties to be collected when they will do the most financial damage to the target.

            It sounds like you’ve not actually played Eve a lot, if in fact at all (at least not recently).

            March 5, 2015 at 15:03
          7. Jay Jackson

            Here’s a calm and measured statement.

            “Don’t give people director roles that you don’t know.” If no one clicked his little box, this doesn’t happen.

            Thievery is a valid action in this world, and this was carried out completely under valid game mechanics.

            Do I feel bad for the corporation that got ganked? Sure. But it was their own fault… the guy was a new player six months ago, and already had a leadership role in a corporation with 600B in assets available to steal by anyone with the proper roles?

            There’s nothing you can do to fix stupid. (Another calm and measured statement.)

            March 16, 2015 at 16:33
    2. Candyman

      Not really grasping the whole “it’s just a game” concept, are you?

      March 3, 2015 at 21:58 Reply
      1. Bittervet Stig

        A game without consequences or rules quickly becomes meaningless. And theft is theft in a game or in RL. Emboldened by practice in a virtual world, do you imagine that some people don’t move on to more lucrative opportunities to use their scamming and thieving skills? If you are willing to deceive your friends and break their trust in EVE, I am convinced you would be willing to do so in RL.

        March 4, 2015 at 13:09 Reply
        1. Candyman

          Good lord, boyo, what colour is the sky in your world? What you may or may not be able to convince yourself of is nobody’s business but your own, which is a polite way of saying feel free to believe your own bullshit but don’t expect anyone else to.

          March 5, 2015 at 03:40 Reply
          1. Bittervet Stig

            There is plenty of anecdotal evidence that people do in fact use EVE as a practice ground for their grifting skills. Look it up.

            March 5, 2015 at 13:36
          2. Sn0wJr_

            You really need to relax. It’s a game. Just cause other games don’t allow this doesn’t mean every other game has to follow that measure. A bunch of other people believe its totally fine as well, even if they’ve fallen to this sort of thing. You can’t ask for a punishment when it was done in fair play. If he exploited a hack or glitch or something that allowed him to go into locked containers then yeah I’d say he has to be punished, but otherwise it’s completely allowed.

            TL;DR – Stop whining. It’s all fair play and completely allowed. If you think he should be punished for thinking outside the box and playing the game differently, then too bad. There’s a reason why EVE Online doesn’t appeal to everyone.

            March 6, 2015 at 01:46
          3. Jason D

            If you read what people are saying here, there is plenty of anecdotal evidence that you have no idea what you are talking about. That’s the thing with anecdotal evidence.

            March 6, 2015 at 09:14
        2. Jay Jackson

          News flash: I roleplay a criminal in EVE.

          I’m actually highly involved in charity efforts in real life, and I’ve never hurt a soul or stolen a dime.

          You really need to grasp the “it’s just a game” aspect. It’s just not WoW where every action is hand-held by the developers. If you want to roleplay an evil villain, you are actually given the tools to here, unlike any other game you’ve played.

          That is probably why you’re such a “Bittervet” — you haven’t grasped the ability to separate real life from a game yet. I hope you do before a ship loss causes you to peel your own cap.

          March 16, 2015 at 16:26 Reply
          1. Bittervet Stig

            I am a bitter vet because I recognize certain immutable things about this game. Things that others seem to prefer to pretend don’t exist. In fact no one is more in tune with the fact that this is just a game than I am. That is my issue, the part you, in all your self righteous fury, seem to have missed. You see, a game is meant to be played for enjoyment, and a game is meant to have certain rules, for fairness. A game that is inherently unfair or which has rules which are designed to frustrate, discourage, or humiliate the player, particularly the new player, won’t be very popular and eventually, will be abandoned. CCP has recognized this, but they also seem to have this sort of nerd delusion about themselves that they are badasses, and so have followed a design decision made early on by somebody over there, to make EVE sort of a troll tool box. Many people really love these “features” of the game, and maybe you do too. Whatever. My point is and always has been, that if you make it too trollish, you poison your own well, and I think the financials surrounding EVE back up my proposition that if EVE were less trollish and more new player friendly, CCP’s bottom line would be much more solid. I don’t like playing a game that I can see is inherently unfair, and neither should anyone. Raging that everything is fine because you feel happy about the way you have learned to game the system is ludicrous and analogous to splashing fellow passengers in the face and laughing like an idiot as the ship goes down.

            March 16, 2015 at 18:51
    3. GCJSeiler

      My character is in VAF. I will not be calling the RCMP over this incident.

      March 29, 2015 at 03:15 Reply
  15. bla

    The busybody has to inform en24 on his own because nobody else is intressted what he have done. Anyways he’s only poor asshole. The world doesn’t need this type of humans.

    March 3, 2015 at 13:54 Reply
    1. Jay Jackson

      “No one cares.”

      Story has been front page on EN24 for over two weeks.

      March 16, 2015 at 16:11 Reply
  16. eMtoN

    This type of thing is a perfect opportunity for CCP to add some new capabilities to bounty hunters. Specifically some skill(s) they can train which would allow us to uncover relationships between alts. That would be very helpful.

    March 3, 2015 at 15:53 Reply
    1. Aaron F

      I like your thinking. If not making it public record for alts than having a way to uncover would be a wonderful aspect.

      March 3, 2015 at 16:38 Reply
  17. Mike

    I think this guy has performed a valuable community service in reminding people about the importance of corp security. EVE isn’t “safe” and plenty of people like it that way. There are many risks and part of the game is learning to mitigate those risks. You can whine and carry on all you want about the big bad corp thief and how CCP needs to come hold your hand and protect you but the truth is the majority of fault is on Vanguard for failing to protect themselves better. Hopefully, they and others will learn from this experience.

    March 3, 2015 at 16:33 Reply
  18. ranter

    I’m fine with this kind of action as it helps keep the mega corporations at bay. War Dec’s and such stuff is more fun when the corporation is a reasonable size and not like Monsanto…. sorry I mean of course goons.
    And if you don’t like the reality of your world (witch eve is built upon) Change it.

    March 3, 2015 at 17:04 Reply
  19. Fatmansky

    Guess now’s the time for SUE Online hahah. badum-tssss

    March 3, 2015 at 17:31 Reply
  20. Right Uppercut

    At the very least, I think that people who do these things should have their characters and alts outed into a list that everyone in the game can access so that anyone who wants to can take shots at them.

    March 3, 2015 at 19:21 Reply
    1. Candyman

      And don’t forget about placing Bounty, because a few billion on their heads will really teach these bastards a lesson. :shakes fist: /sarcasm

      March 3, 2015 at 21:53 Reply
    2. Jason D

      A) How should CCP out all their alts? Should there be a forced real ID confirmation system in place before you can play to make sure that they can tie a username to a real person? B) Unless you mean a way of seeing all alts on a single account, in which case it exists and is used by every corp I’ve ever joined – it’s called an API key. Can tell the prospective corp the names of all your alts on a single account, and even more info if you give it to them.

      March 6, 2015 at 09:23 Reply
    3. Jay Jackson

      They can. The thief in question had at least six characters outed, along with that of his best friend and his alts. Those characters are now “burnt” to anyone with any knowledge of the game universe.

      March 16, 2015 at 16:23 Reply
  21. Todd Sampson

    For 11 years I have wondered if I could be a dickhead sociopath in order to pull this off. I just couldn’t do it.

    March 3, 2015 at 22:02 Reply
  22. unbitter vet

    To all the people saying “if you did this IRL you’d get arrested”:

    That’s actually not true. If you stole from your company, you’d go to
    jail if (and only if) you stayed in your native nation. That unit, in EVE, is the alliance or
    corporation you work for. Whatever character you use to do something
    like this is basically purged from the political landscape of the game
    forever, which is a roughly equivalent penalty. Anyone associated with that character also obtains a black mark that will limit their rise.

    You’re talking like you want CCP to be some sort of national ruling body. What makes EVE unique is that the most meaningful unit of authority in the game to you, at any given time, is a player entity.

    We do need better corporation asset management, don’t get me wrong, but better management shouldn’t be aimed at making it easier to protect concentrations of wealth. That kind of thinking will lead to a stagnant game.

    And this is someone who was once a member of IRC (oldschool IRC) and has a very, very high opinion of VAF and Tessa.

    March 4, 2015 at 00:17 Reply
  23. Truth

    Now we just need a small handful of CFC/GSF directors to do the same.

    March 4, 2015 at 00:33 Reply
  24. Hmmmm Illegal much?

    Well actually when you think about it as the assets have real world value you could technically have him charged with theft and sent to real prison. It would be interesting to see someone try.

    March 4, 2015 at 00:57 Reply
    1. Jason D

      Since the theft took place in-game, and that kind of action is legitimate in-game, there is absolutely no basis for any theft charges. More importantly, if they did somehow manage to convince someone that since ISK can be given a $ value that this was theft, the next step would be for the government to start taxing money earned in EVE. Yes, both ideas are ludicrous.

      March 4, 2015 at 05:36 Reply
  25. Akivar

    There are ways to prevent this… This was not Erata’s fault but the corporation’s fault. CCP warns people about this… Good Job bro!

    March 4, 2015 at 03:18 Reply
  26. guest

    I’m pretty new at EVE, but isnt there a way that you can report this kind of abuse so that character gets banned/deleted and his all history as well, so no one can ever contact him again ?

    March 4, 2015 at 09:44 Reply
    1. Kiokiba

      That’s all fair in the game’s rules

      March 4, 2015 at 10:38 Reply
    2. Sn0wJr_

      Yeah this isn’t your conventional MMO. You don’t get banned for tricking someone or stealing something from someone. It’s a fully open sandbox world, and you can do pretty much ANYTHING you want.

      Me and my friends made a saying for EVE Online –

      “Other games give you a cookie for doing pretty much anything in their game. EVE Online not only doesn’t give you a cookie, but it laughs at you for asking for one in the first place.”

      March 6, 2015 at 01:29 Reply
  27. Bill

    When I ran an alliance we had no directors. It was just my girl and I, for just this reason. We had a number of programs that required strong cooperation and contributions from a lot of people, and while I knew I could trust myself with the results of their efforts, I knew I couldn’t trust anyone else, Eve culture being what it is.

    We used a different regime for distributing items that were needed by front line players outside the game mechanics that worked well, and prevented this kind of thing.

    The root problem is lack of accountability – even in game accountability. It’s all well and good to say that this is a legitimate part of game play, but when someone can escape the in-game consequences of their actions using out of game means (starting new accounts/characters and transferring the stolen gains) it’s no longer game play, it’s just theft.

    March 4, 2015 at 23:03 Reply
    1. Bittervet Stig

      This is pretty much exactly what I have been saying, but I have been getting attacked repeatedly by all the status quo-ers about. There needs to be better ingame controls. EVE is full of situations where you can abuse the system with zero consequences for your actions, and that to me ruins the game.

      March 5, 2015 at 14:43 Reply
      1. Jason D

        What in game controls do you still think are missing? Would you like to see a permission system that only allows some people to take stuff out of a hangar while allowing anyone to put stuff into a container? CHECK – it’s there. Would you like to be able to limit access based on home station? CHECK – it’s there. Would you like to assign permissions based on role and not username? CHECK – it’s there. How about an audit system to see what was put in and what was taken out? CHECK – it’s there. In this story Erata didn’t ake up one morning and go take the stuff. He spent 6 months persuading the corp owners to give him the keys, and then, when he had the keys, he took everything. What can CCP do to make sure that people who have explicitly been given access do not abuse that access?

        March 6, 2015 at 09:18 Reply
      2. Jay Jackson

        Abuse the system?

        Or don’t give people CEO access to an 11-year old corporation with apparently everything they’ve ever owned in an unlocked corporate hangar after six months?

        Seriously, without “director” being checked as a role, a LOT of this doesn’t happen.

        March 16, 2015 at 16:20 Reply
  28. krunkman4

    While redundant and boring, this article is full of care-bear tears and the writing is good.
    I approve.

    March 5, 2015 at 03:17 Reply
  29. Gerald deGroot

    Compare to Monopoly – you can trick someone into giving you a great deal or use game mechanics to your advantage, but you can’t just reach over and steal all their property cards and money when they get up to go to the can. There needs to be some repercussion to theft.

    March 5, 2015 at 16:24 Reply
    1. Jason D

      And in this article Erata used trickery and game mechanics to get 600 bill in ISK. If this is not the point you were trying to make then I’ve misunderstood something.

      March 6, 2015 at 09:10 Reply
    2. Swagmire

      Jason D raises a good point, but it’s unnecessary. Honestly bro, go play monopoly if you want monopoly rules…

      September 25, 2015 at 03:11 Reply
  30. xeno

    Eve is Just a game friend that being said people want to
    make real world comparison so be it I roll with it. A corporation is like a government.
    Espionage and stealing happens in real world governments all the time a good
    spy does his best not to get caught and returns to their home nation a hero
    welcome to espionage and crop theft in eve. IT’s not stealing from a real life corporation
    it’s more like stealing form a real life government you need to catch them
    moving stuff before they make it back to home or in this case high sec to sell
    it. IF the theft happens in high sec then you have to play rouge nation and aggress
    the thief if’s worth it to you and get smoked down by the United Nations in
    this case concord but everyone should remember it’s just a game and for you
    care bears complaining that it mimics there real actions how many red crosses
    have you shoot does that make you a mass murderer or someone playing a game?

    March 5, 2015 at 17:07 Reply
  31. D

    I love Eve for the fact you can pull off a$$ things like that. After all it is the sandbox we so love. I do agree with the part though where Corporation management could use a serious overhaul.

    The whole interface is ugly, quite limiting and I would thoroughly like to have the possibility to assign control of individual poses to individual corp members.

    Just some of the features I’d like to see added.

    well done to the thief. It took him months to pull off.

    Also well done to the victims and their CEO. Their main focus still seems to be their members.

    March 6, 2015 at 00:38 Reply
  32. Falcon07

    People like that should be hunted down by IP and killed, no joke kill that fucker, assholes like that destroy games and groups that HELP other players that want to learn and have fun.
    I hope that fucker burns to death in a fire.

    March 6, 2015 at 15:39 Reply
    1. Jay Jackson

      Yes, wishing murder and death on someone over a video game is mature, because some people don’t get to “learn and fun” quite so easily.

      Maybe if they were so worried about their group and fun being destroyed, they would have locked down $13K in assets a bit better.

      March 16, 2015 at 16:19 Reply
    2. Swagmire

      I understand your frustration Falcon07, believe me. That being said, if you don’t want someone to pull some shiesty in-game maneuvers on you then you should play a game where that can’t happen. Since that is inherently part of this game all you can do is account for it, be wary, and try not to get too broken up when shit happens. No use crying over spilled milk bro, especially if it happens in a big, crazy, mmo milk throwing factory.

      September 25, 2015 at 03:07 Reply
  33. Kickass

    As some say it’s part of the game play. The mechanics allow it so that’s it. CCP has changed that time and time again. So they could do the same here. As someone else said it’s not based in real life. True, but there are aspects that are. You steal someone’s can. You go suspect. You shoot a peaceful loving carebear. You will get a visit from the Fuzz. So if someone steals a huge amount of cash… They should face a penalty. Maybe the corp gets an email when ever money is transfered from that player to other players. Or used to buy a ship… Then that ship is then given to another player. So yes he can get away with it… But everything he does with that money is under the eye of the corp he stole it from. Maybe there is a 120 day or 180 day period that this will clear out. Idk. Just brainstorming.

    March 6, 2015 at 18:31 Reply
  34. Xain

    What I learned is that CCP are responsible for this as they allow this to happen.

    March 6, 2015 at 22:34 Reply
    1. riverini

      OFC and they better keep doing it, EVE Online is a true sandbox, if you can, give it a try.

      March 8, 2015 at 10:32 Reply
    2. Rumpelstiltskin

      How can CCP stop stupid people from giving full access to someone after just 6 months? It’s their own fault and they deserved to loose every penny.

      March 9, 2015 at 23:42 Reply
  35. ok

    Someone once said on comms: Don’t trust anyone in Eve unless you can easily go over to their house and punch them in the face.

    March 9, 2015 at 18:55 Reply
    1. lel

      meh you could track erata down with ease and beat the brakes off him till he’s a vegatable for the rest of his worthless nigger life..
      not hard nor impossible.

      March 16, 2015 at 05:56 Reply
  36. Ren Rivers

    I haven’t been in the game as long as many players have but there are somethings I quickly learned when I started playing. Don’t fly anything you can’t afford to lose, and don’t trust anyone any further than the next gate. As for alts, they are a pain in the butt, that don’t give you any advantage. Its for that reason that I have 3 mains, and no alts, with none of them connected beyond my login screen. If one of my characters belongs to a corp, it doesn’t mean any others ever will, and the majority of my assets will remain with one of my characters that is solo, so although I might have some assets in a corp hanger, the most of my assets remain in a private hanger that no one has access to but me. Since my 3 mains have separate APIs, a corp can go through an API with a fine tooth comb, but never find anything beyond what the one main has. Moreover, my three mains all use separate e-mail addresses so even that couldn’t connect my mains, to each other.

    Expecting CCP to protect you from your own stupidity or some ganker isn’t going to happen. That is just part of the game, and you either learn to play it the way it is laid out, or you get burned for not taking the precautions that you should have. I don’t personally know anything about the corp that got heisted, or any of the members, but from all that I have read, it appears that the real fault here lies in the hands of corp management, and in particular the CEO who dealt out to many permissions that they shouldn’t have been so freely distributing, but it even goes further than that because from some of things that have been said, it appears that the corp didn’t make the best choice when they elected the new CEO after the old one had stepped down. Which brings up another point, ‘What may seem trivial at one point, may turn out to be quite costly at another.’ Everything I have learned about Eve I have learned from one of several ways, be it experience, research and study, conversations I have been a part of or watched or heard others engage in, or the forums. All because I quickly found out that there was a huge learning curve when playing Eve, and there was no way I was going to learn it all just being a pew,pew pilot.

    It is a very dangerous and precarious world in New Eden, and criminals are just as plentiful as good people, and given the right set of circumstances, even a good person can be lead to, or decide to go bad under the right circumstances. It offers all the trappings of the real world, money, fame, fortune, greed and treachery, and there are those who will go to any limit to get those things. There are those who would give you the shirt off their back, but at the same time their are those who would rip the shirt off your back, and cut your throat at the same time, just for the experience. Which brings up one last thought, ‘Don’t expect others to protect you from yourself or others, because in New Eden you are on your own, and you either succeed or fail on the precautions you take on your own.’ Have fun and fly safe.

    March 10, 2015 at 18:08 Reply
    1. Swagmire

      First, I don’t even play EVE, although I have now read a ton about EVE thanks to 3 things: The article , my love for video games in general, and my incessant need to head down the web-link rabbit hole (I have read way more about EVE than I should have just following links, especially considering I will probably never play it). That’s the disclaimer for gamers who do not want to read comments about a game from someone who does not play said game (I understand, believe me). Anyways, I just wanted to say that this just sounds like really good advice in general. A good way to keep yourself from ending up sitting in your computer chair with your head in your hands, wondering what just happened to the collective weeks/months worth of in-game hours that you have spent (especially with a no-rules [at least that’s what it seems like from the outside] mmo game like EVE), would be to take precautions and trust few, if anybody. Re-read Ren Rivers revelations (alliteration intended) a few times, and then apply his advice to any mmo you play (and to at least a few facets of your real life too). Personalities may be plenty warm, but hearts are usually colder than you think them to be. Seems like a dope game. Be smart, have fun!

      September 25, 2015 at 02:50 Reply
  37. Woschdbrot

    Sorry to say this, but keeping 600b worth of stuff in open corp hangars is asking for a theft like this. We’re keeping an open corp hangar, too – but not even close to this amount of ISKs. On the other hand if people really set their mind to the task and work so hard to gain rank within the corp, not much you can do about it besides being paranoid and keep the shiney stuff locked away as CEO/trusted director.

    March 15, 2015 at 22:18 Reply
    1. GCJSeiler

      He was a trusted director. Perhaps this was an oversight in leadership. I can tell you for an absolute fact that at no particular time were “600b worth of stuff in open hangars” left lying around for the taking. I suppose that you are entitled to your wild speculation.

      March 29, 2015 at 03:20 Reply
  38. Jay Jackson

    Learn not to racist, along with the same proofreading advice.

    March 16, 2015 at 16:17 Reply
  39. Jay Jackson

    Yes, $13,000 US is “nothing.”

    Take your racist bullshit back home.

    March 16, 2015 at 16:18 Reply
  40. HellPhantom

    This is what makes eve great, being able to almost do anything you want. I would not change a thing. Sad if you lost but that is life, hope somebody learned a lesson.

    March 17, 2015 at 14:19 Reply
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    November 29, 2017 at 04:28 Reply
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