Introduction

If you compare the history of 0.0 politics with that of our own world you will find many common features and patterns. For example, the current dualistic nature of 0.0 politics mirrors very much the situation in the latter half of the 20th century. Unlike many others, I do not consider the current form of 0.0 politics an error or bad game design itself (although there are some things that need fixed) but rather the natural progression of human development.

When Eve started, you had small groups that explored the fringes. These corporations were fairly primitive and disorganized compared to many of the groups today. These various corporations fought, grew, developed, and aligned with one another. The Great Northern War, the fall of BoB etc, these were times where Eve entities grew from their basic tribal configurations into alliances and the precursors to the modern coalitions. Due to lack of organization, numerical saturation (which leads to intellectual saturation, redundancy and advancement, See Sedentary vs Nomadic) we had a variety of entities that all fought each other.

We saw this cycle happen a few times in our own world. Compare Europe when Rome only ruled central Italy and you had a variety of powers from Carthage to the various Greek entities, to Thracians, Iberians, Celts etc. Then compare it to the 2nd century AD where you had Rome as an Empire, the Persian Empire and a few groups to the north that varied in effectiveness. We could compare that with today where we have two major coalitions and a few smaller groups that fall between the two such as CVA, Hero Coalition, Russian Remnants and some of the lowsec and npc 0.0 areas.

Economics, ideology, security, these are all factors that can bring people together or push them apart. In conflict motivation one or more take precedence over the others. The war between BoB and Goons was an ideological one. The Tribute War (CFC vs DotBros) was economic. N3′s conquest of the east and the exile of Solar from the Drone Regions was both economic and security. The Fountain War was also economic and security based as both the GSF and TEST held an almost identical ideology. The Halloween War was about security (N3 vs RUS) but by proxy (and sometimes directly) it was ideological (N3 vs CFC.)

If one were so inclined, one could write quite a lengthy piece on each of those aspects but since my interest today will focus on the ideology, it should be a shorter piece. Now when I say ideology I am also referring specifically to the organizational structure of the two coalitions. The difficulty of such an article is in large part due to it being impossible to completely separate the two when talking about them. As such there will be a phasing in and out of both sides in their respective sections and perhaps some repetition of some points. The motivation behind this piece is over one of the questions I had to answer recently in and interview with Q, and I as it peaked her interest in the subject, I hope that others can observe my perspective and hopefully motivate discussion.


The Cluster Fuck Coalition: One Troll to Rule them All

It is first important to understand how a group was created in order to understand how it functions. I’ll skip the over told story of the fall of BoB and all that. It’s been covered elsewhere ad nauseam. Instead we will refer to the time when the GSF lived in Deklein and the old Northern Coalition (no relations to today’s NCdot) was fighting a war against the Drone Russian Federation. The DRF had been buying capitals from the old NC which at the time had grown extremely rich, fat and lazy. When the old NC started pushing further east, they met the DRF ready for war more so than ever and along with that, had hired Pandemic Legion to spearhead their offensive. PL using their Thundercat doctrine (Missile Kiting Tengus) handed old NC a series of staggering defeats.

Throughout the conflict, the GSF, which had had good relations with elements in the Russian community, specifically Red Alliance. In the past Red Alliance and the Goons had worked together and due to the past, the GSF offered minimal assistance to the old NC. There are some who would argue that the GSF refused to help the old NC because they wanted it to fall so that they may replace it. Either by accident or intent that is exactly what happened. White Noise and Raiden took old NC’s holdings in the north while the GSF held off a headshot attempt from PL. White Noise and Raiden were a forced to be reckoned with as their sizable blap titan fleets.

Two major things happened that changed the balance in the Goon’s favor. First off, CCP changed the way that Titans worked by limiting the tracking of capital guns thus limiting their engagement options. Blame Goon meta, blame CCP, blame both, whatever the case, this allowed the GSF to use their numeric advantage to put up a fight against White Noise and Raiden. The next major event was the internal conflict within White Noise and the formation of “Black Noise.” This divided White Noise as an alliance and Raiden seeing the writing on the wall withdrew from the north. So the GSF placed itself on the Northern Throne absorbing many of the old NC membership either directly into its alliance or coalition members such as Razor. As the point of stability and the greatest contributor in terms of numbers, but even more so than that, the GSF’s commitment to organization, logistics and leadership, they took center stage in what would be the CFC.

I’ve said this in the past and it still rings true, the GSF’s heavily centralized model keeps its coalition members strong enough to be useful, but also too weak to challenge GSF dominance. Propaganda often praises the accomplishments of the coalition as a whole. If a system is taken, it is a CFC victory. On the other hand if there is a terrible loss such as a super capital or a bad campaign, it is referred to as a failure of that particular alliance. By these means the notion that “you accomplish much with the coalition but little alone” is constantly repeated.

That may come off as a criticism but it is simply an observation. Central rule must be enforced if it is to be maintained. These methods are necessary for the stability of the CFC. At the same time steps must be taken to ensure that resentment between the GSF and the other coalition members does now grow. Even so the majority of FCs, decisions, resources and other assets find their way within the GSF.

One example of an entity which grew within (arguably) the CFC to a level where they could become a challenge to the GSF dominance was TEST Alliance. They held a long rivalry with CFC member, Fatal Ascension. The then leader of TEST, Montolio, sought direct war with FA even as they invaded the south west region of nullsec. The two antagonized each other until Montolio directly challenged the GSF. TEST lost their home region of Fountain in the process and FA was given the conquered area as their prize.

More recently we saw several internal changes within the CFC. GENTS and Li3 Federation merged into “The Bastion.” Li3 Federation was an old CFC member that had been kicked out, crashed on TEST’s couch in Querious and were later re-absorbed into the CFC. My contacts within GENTS tell me that the BOTLORD agreement left them with few options for pvp. Within Razor we saw hirr be kicked out for whatever reasons when they attempted to form their own alliance within the CFC. On the other hand when the Graduates attempted to do the same thing, they were given permission. Rather than have more corporations bleed out of the CFC and into N3, the Mittani made the smart move of letting certain elements restructure so long as it was kept within the CFC. So long as GSF dominance is maintained, rules are flexible. Anyone remember how renting was “bad” and “ungoon like” and “BoB like” to do?

Heavily centralized rule has many strengths. Decision making is much quicker. Everyone has a role which they must adhere to (or be disregarded) so that the coalition as a whole can accomplish goals. While there will be elements within the CFC that will attempt to establish a unique character, a higher level of autonomy and individual campaigns, a common narrative and ideology, even if vague at times, keeps the CFC together. Internal challenges are less likely and the repeated narrative of CFC contra mundum keeps the majority of the coalition members in line.


N3(PL?): Too leet for my shirt

The same “us vs them” narrative that helped keep the CFC unified has also created a unified enemy against them. Any time you create an “us” you inevitably create a “them.” This “Them” exists as a reaction to the CFC. In this case that them has come in the form of N3(PL?).

Years ago Nulli Secunda held sov in Delve and Period Basis and was allied with -A- and other members of SoCo against Red Alliance. The war was a slow grindy back and forth until RA began losing ground. -A- took the opportunity to make a deal with RA. In exchange for turning sov in the south over to -A-, RA would be allowed to settle by Nulli. It wasn’t long before Nulli and RA came to trading blows and roams turned into moves to take sov. Pandemic Legion, which at the time was allied with TEST which lived just north in Fountain, took advantage of the war and third partied the conflict. Unfortunately for Nulli, RA dropped out early leaving the war to be mostly between PL and Nulli. TEST took advantage of their ally’s move and launched a full invasion of Delve and Period Basis. Nulli put up a respectable fight but were pushed into lowsec to join Amarr FW.

As TEST and their allies started a full war with -A-, Nulli found refuge in an alliance with NCdot and their then allies, Black Legion. The group became known as “Dotbros” and as war raged on in the south, the Dotbros defended their holdings in Tribute against the CFC. Internal drama would split up NCdot and BL but Nulli would stick around with NCdot as well as Nexus (the 3rd in N3 although some say the name comes from “No Name Needed.”) Although eventually Dotbros/N3 would lose Tribute, the conflict would establish BL as a solid pvp powerhouse and push N3 into invading the east. Solar had been the 2nd front during the Tribute War and once the CFC finally managed to take the region from them, they left Solar and the east to fall to N3. PL and N3 allied in taking the east from Solar and their allies setting up a massive rental empire across the ancient russian regions.

TEST fell in the west, Solar fell in the east and both the CFC and N3/PL took the lion’s share of the territory. This all came together in the south with “RUSRUS” or “DTF” coalition stuck between the two. The Halloween War saw a massive capital loss for the CFC/DTF side in HED-GP while B-R would show the world the most expensive battle in Eve history at the expense of N3/PL. Regardless of the CFC/DTF win, the CFC pulled back allowing N3/PL to reverse their losses and completely control the south pushing -A- and other remnants into Stain and other sovless regions.

So now that we know by what manner this coalition was put together, how does it compare with the CFC? Well most notably, N3/PL has no single leader as the CFC does. There is no “MIttani” for the N3/PL side. Grath, Vince, Progod, all carry a certain amount of influence and weight in the coalition that would stagger the group would one end up leaving or being destroyed. This heightened level of autonomy and self sufficiency allows certain individual alliances to deploy effectively. PL or NCdot shows up in your backyard, it’s a problem. The same cannot be said about individual CFC alliances.

However that level of individual strength does not always mean the coalition as a whole is stronger. From a meta perspective there are certain things that can be taken advantage of. The CFC established a treaty with PL and PL only cutting off a northern front offensive from the entire N3 coalition. Nulli has taken to a campaign in Providence and while CFC media is keen on reporting on their losses, Nulli has shown individual military prowess. Where the issues arise is in their relationship with PL which has reset all N3 coalition members save for NCdot for the time being. Differences of opinion, debate, egos, all hamper a single unified progress of the coalition for a single goal on the same level that the CFC can maintain. That’s not to say that N3/PL should be restructured, simply put, these are the differences between the two and this is how they will work differently. N3/PL isn’t a coalition formed of equals by any means either. But the balance of power is spread out over several alliances rather than being completely centralized on one.


Culture Wars

Is it better to have one head or several? Well one can say that if you have only one head, then decisions are made more quickly. This can be true. At the same time however, having several heads means that if one is cut off, this does not ensure the entire coalition falls. Both coalitions likewise place an emphasis on a certain type of culture. Although each corp and alliance has their own perspective on the matter, there is an “over culture” for each coalition be it “elite pvp” or “us vs them” etc. Whatever the case, both sides would do well to try to use that culture to unify rather than disassemble their coalitions. One coalition exists to balance out the other, however I believe if the CFC would fall first, it is more likely that N3 will reset its members for the sake of pvp than the other way around. The emphasis on centralism in the CFC seeks to maintain the status quo while the decentralized model of N3 places more emphasis on the different alliances.

What do you think? Is one manner of rule better than the other? Would you seek to maintain your coalition were you leading it or would you rather break up 0.0 into many different groups? How do you see the next conflict come to existence and what conclusion would you foresee? How do the factors discussed above affect each aspect?

- Seraph IX Basarab

  • na

    Rather see coalitions break up, but it will never happen. When force projection and speed one can move your fleets are fixed, majority of minor alliances will continue to allie with one or the other be it CFC or N3/PL.

    Sad state of affairs in my opinion :(

  • na

    Rather see coalitions break up, but it will never happen. When force projection and speed one can move your fleets are fixed, majority of minor alliances will continue to allie with one or the other be it CFC or N3/PL.

    Sad state of affairs in my opinion :(

    • Aeraeni

      Don’t be too sure.

    • Aeraeni

      Don’t be too sure.

      • http://www.eveonline.com/ hoodaticus

        The current state of nullsec is evolving. Over time renters will become powerful in their own right, and their aspirations will create new instabilities and conflicts in 0.0.

        • imsosly

          Not true. All renting coalitions do not allow for the production of super capitals (some capitals altogether) unless it is under very strict conditions, on top of keeping hold of valuable moons. No renting corp can challenge it’s landlord even if it wanted to. Titans and super carriers are the judge, jury and executioner.

        • imsosly

          Not true. All renting coalitions do not allow for the production of super capitals (some capitals altogether) unless it is under very strict conditions, on top of keeping hold of valuable moons. No renting corp can challenge it’s landlord even if it wanted to. Titans and super carriers are the judge, jury and executioner.

    • http://www.eveonline.com/ hoodaticus

      I flew an interceptor from Essence to Cobalt Edge in about half an hour – that’s about 2/3 of EVE I crossed in that time. If you want to nerf power projection, you have to get rid of stargates and make us actually warp between the stars.

    • imsosly

      It amazes me how the only answer for everyone is power vs. power head on. The key to bringing CFC or N3PL down is by using very basic guerrilla warfare. As a real world example, look at insurgents in Iraq and Afghanistan. They nearly brought down the U.S. occupation by a) being very cruel and hitting where it hurts (civilians, innocent, etc.) b) unrelenting and sporadic (you never know where or when they would attack but they did.. and when they did they hit HARD) c) They don’t play by any rules. There are no rules in war. The first one to say FUCK BOTLORD will be the first savior of New Eden.

  • He who shall not be shamed

    As a former member of GENTS I can tell you it was a leadership burnout issue more then a problem with B0TLRD . As you where not allowed to go full scale attack on PL. Who in there right mind in GENTS would want that? B0TLRD only hinders the coalition entities of going on a all out war against its opponent in there home region.

    Think of it like cold war where we had two big entities and noone want to deal directly with each other but both handed underhand blows to each other. the B0TLRD only formalize it.

    from Vale of the Silent you can reach:
    Kavevala Expanse where my favorite roaming target was O5Y- and IUU3- witch is NC and NC renters so they are not part of B0tlrd

    then we had Geminate with X.I.X and there renters with also was fun to deal with (we had a nip but nothing else)

    and both Venal with Tri and BL

    and and then we had Lowsec entities just one JB + gate away ….

    Please don’t tell me that B0TLRD fell GENTS since its a spin of lies

    Yes it was a shame Since i like GENTS when i joined it but in the end all good things must come to an end.

    CUT FROM B0TLRD ::::

    CFC agree not to assist any non-signatory in the conquest or capture of
    Buffer Regions. Attending fights with non-strategic level fleets (no
    caps/supers beyond five triage and a bridge titan, no more than 250
    subcaps) is perfectly acceptable.

    CFC Home Regions:
    Branch, Tenal, Venal, Vale of the Silent, Tribute, Deklein, Fade,
    Pure Blind, Cloud Ring, Outer Ring, Syndicate, Fountain, Delve, Period
    Basis, Querious. This is minus BL/SOLAR sov, as they are not
    signatories.

    PL Home Regions:
    PL/BOT sov in Oasa, Outer Passage, Malpais, The Spire, and the
    spattering of SOV 5 systems currently under PL control. This is minus N3
    sov, as they are not signatories.

    PL Buffer Zones:
    Perrigen Falls, Kalevala Expanse, Etherium Reach, Cache, Insmother, Detorid

    • http://www.mopam-eve.org Linus Gorp

      NC is a witch?

    • Senex Legio 1

      A coward’s agreement, or at least that of people who are not truly interested in PvP.

      • http://www.eveonline.com/ hoodaticus

        Confirming that Goonswarm and PL are nowhere near the top of the PVP list on zkillboard.

        CONDI: zkillboard.com/alliance/1354830081/
        -10.0: zkillboard.com/alliance/386292982/

        • Kamar Raimo

          Actually, those statistics look a lot different if you check kills per pilot. Total number of kills will of course be high in alliances with thousands of toons.

        • Kamar Raimo

          Actually, those statistics look a lot different if you check kills per pilot. Total number of kills will of course be high in alliances with thousands of toons.

  • notinnull

    IMHO no matter what has happened IRL or what is the natural progression of alliances and what not, I think that in a supposedly PVP focused game the state of bluesec is a huge problem.

  • notinnull

    IMHO no matter what has happened IRL or what is the natural progression of alliances and what not, I think that in a supposedly PVP focused game the state of bluesec is a huge problem.

    • Arakki

      PvP focused sandbox, not a game. In a game there is expectation for guidance on the things to come. In EvE-like sandbox all behaviour is human-like and not created by someone who is good at reading novels.

      • Timmy

        Perhaps CCP Games should be changed to CCP Sandboxes then.

        • i want one

          CCP lunch boxes would be better

  • Gee

    Citation is the cornerstone of a decent intellectual argument and I see virtually none in this article penned by a complete faceless nobody..

    Well done Evenews24, Keep being the Fox News of Eve Online media.

  • Gee

    Citation is the cornerstone of a decent intellectual argument and I see virtually none in this article penned by a complete faceless nobody..

    Well done Evenews24, Keep being the Fox News of Eve Online media.

    • Knork

      Why would you need to cite someone on a piece that expresses your own opinion? Have you ever read a newspaper? They have commentary pices where opinions of the author are expressed, too. The article makes an interesting point, recalls events that are known(Do you want citations for when the Halloween war happened or B-R?)

    • Knork

      Why would you need to cite someone on a piece that expresses your own opinion? Have you ever read a newspaper? They have commentary pices where opinions of the author are expressed, too. The article makes an interesting point, recalls events that are known(Do you want citations for when the Halloween war happened or B-R?)

      • JIeoH Mocc

        You kind of shot your own foot with this one, you’ll be surprised that different entities have a different opinion about WHEN the Halloween War started, what caused it etc.

    • Trolololo

      Ignore this troll. This guy clearly has no idea what he’s talking about. Interesting read.

    • LJ

      “Citation is the cornerstone of a decent intellectual argument”

      Sounds like something that someone important said? where’s your citation? Where’s your intellect? where’s your face? Irony much.

    • inb4 comment deleted

      Even worse is that this was sent in by a random guy according to the title first, now they changed it to say that Seraph wrote it/
      It wouldn’t even be the first time if they just copied&pasted a whole post and claimed it was theirs, not even asking the author, for exaple the sabre guide Nbonga made on failheap they copied and pasted without even asking.

      • Seraph IX Basarab

        I wrote this. Whoever posted it simply didn’t title it properly that’s all.

  • Gordon Gecko

    Compare: RMT
    Contrast: RMT

    I had to close down my Paypal account, too much money going through it!

  • ???

    The awkward moment when people slowly but surely begin to recognize what Goons original idea of playing EVE was and that it already has taken place in such an enormous scale that every alliance and coalition in 0.0 and even CCP is directly affected and helpless to do anything against it.

    /slowly walking away and smugging.

  • BS

    Same shit diferent name.

  • ex “old NC” grunt

    Great write up.
    As a returning player I’ve been reading up on the last couple of years sov null changes. This piece was probably one of the more interesting ones I’ve read thus far.
    Much appreciated.

    • brathahn

      it is a biased article. TEST and PL didn’t succeed against nulli in delve/PB war, they called the CFC to grind those regions and kill nulli. up to that call nulli was very successfull in defending against TEST/PL and killed aslo PL Titans in that conflict.

      but, this wouldn’t fit in the article where you have one two sides ?

    • brathahn

      it is a biased article. TEST and PL didn’t succeed against nulli in delve/PB war, they called the CFC to grind those regions and kill nulli. up to that call nulli was very successfull in defending against TEST/PL and killed aslo PL Titans in that conflict.

      but, this wouldn’t fit in the article where you have one two sides ?

      • Seraph IX Basarab

        Nulli put up a great fight there’s no doubt about that and I think they showed a level of talent and strength that surprised many in Eve. Even today Nulli is underestimated but still one of my favorite alliances to follow. Saying that, Nulli had no chance to stand against PL alone let alone PL and TEST. CFC was there to drive the point home.

      • Cloora

        Nulli at least chose to fight sometimes, but they were not going to defend against PL let alone PL/TEST. We were mopping the floor with them. Once CFC started rolling in, they were in full retreat and I remember only running sov grinds with CFC.

      • Cloora

        Nulli at least chose to fight sometimes, but they were not going to defend against PL let alone PL/TEST. We were mopping the floor with them. Once CFC started rolling in, they were in full retreat and I remember only running sov grinds with CFC.

  • asd

    Quote: “I do not consider the current form of 0.0 [...] bad game design”

    When game design leads to boring blob warfare that nobody seems to enjoy gameplay wise but at best because of the ‘epic’ narrative and when the server is not even able to handle it then you are experiencing bad game design. Period.

    I agree that the development towards mega coalitions is only natural and logical given the nature of the game. But then again, if your game naturally progresses towards an unenjoyable state it’s design is flawed.

    In Eve’s defense i must admit though that i have yet to see a game that offers the freedom and excitement of open world PvP and at the same time manages to mitigate the disadvantage customers are at when trying to play at the best of their individual skill instead of relying on their social networking efforts.

    • Anonymous Coward

      Your comment reminded me that our own universe naturally progresses toward a heat death (an unenjoyable state), and shares the flawed design of EVE.

      • Jevous Encule

        At least when you die…you don’t feel anything. You neither feel joy or frustration.

        • Dick Hauser

          No spoilers plz.

        • http://www.eveonline.com/ hoodaticus

          If you have no senses when you die then how could you tell us what it’s like?

    • Jevous Encule

      ” if your game naturally progresses towards an unenjoyable state it’s design is flawed.”

      You just summarized EVE with that sentence. A true sandbox game where everything is permitted has its limits and drawbacks. It sure is fun for some. But after some time, the average gamer will just move on to other games.

    • EnderDragoon

      I know countless pilots that get tired of the blob warfare and join other groups to play a different type of EVE. That’s the beauty of this game, its big enough that you can go do something else. If you don’t like sov warfare there are plenty of other things to occupy your time. Go fly in a wormhole or set up lowsec industry. People bash on broken EVE mechanics because of blobing warfare but it really makes up a very small portion of the overall conflict in EVE, especially when you consider conflict beyond shooting your guns at another pilot (marketing, espionage, diplomacy, etc). If you want that “epic” feel then you have to be willing to do what others aren’t, maybe boredom is part of the price, inst that the case with all epic adventures and experiences?

  • HonaChaginai

    “Unlike many others, I do not consider the current form of 0.0 politics an error or bad game design itself (although there are some things that need fixed) but rather the natural progression of human development. –

    This is something I find very true and do not believe that CCP can ever fix the game. Everything is working as intended but it is the very model our world is built on that is broken and that is something we just have to live with. Here in Eve we have CCP to fix things, in RL it is up to us.

    • gg

      Problem is…. in the real world everyone want to avoid war, and in this game the players want war, but the higher ups of coalitions still want to avoid war.

      • War > Peace

        Time for new higher ups then.

      • santaclown

        Players want battles not war and grids

    • Bleeding Ears Joe

      Completely tired of people saying that the game is broken or that SOV needs a fix. Such a sense of entitlement, that everyone deserves to win something. Reinforce a system non stop without offering your opponent fights or kills for weeks or months at a time. Eventually they will give in. All I read every time i see “SOV is broken” are people complaining that their enemies resolve is stronger than their own. Petition CCP about an unfair resolve for the next year and they might implement a testosterone pill ration for underdogs.

      • http://www.eveonline.com/ hoodaticus

        100% Agree. But then, I’m living in sov null rather than envying it.

      • Marlona_Sky

        So you are saying sov is fine the way it is?

        • Ears Have Fallen Off Joe

          I’m not saying it’s perfect, nor am I saying it couldn’t work better. That can be said of every aspect of every game. I am saying that it is what it is, and many people enjoy it. There are also a lot of people that are not enjoying it, but for some reason choose to participate. There are others that want to participate, but don’t for one reason or another.

          If you don’t enjoy what you are doing, whatever level, change what you do or who you do it with. There is a corp, alliance, faction, job, location or activity for everyone. If you are choosing what you do because of ISK, endgame content or the status quo, realize that YOU, whoever you are, are CHOOSING to ignore the fun quotient.

          • Marlona_Sky

            So you are saying sov needs work?

          • Marlona_Sky

            So you are saying sov needs work?

          • How Does Joe Hear With No Ears

            No. SOV works fine. There are a massive number of alliance that hold SOV, and have used easily a dozen different methods to obtain it. At least a few of these were most likely not conceived when SOV code was written, renting and spies used to steal most notably. N3 and GSF have different ways of using their SOV, as discussed in this article. Other Coalitions keep their SOV in different ways, such as Brave Coalition and Provi-Block, which I doubt has to do with their force projection or SOV mechanics. The current set up creates lots of diversity, which is awesome.

            Changing how SOV is obtained, held or lost will change the methods that people use to play, but the outcome will be the same. Some will adapt quickly, and rule large area’s of the universe. Others will find a niche that they can exploit to survive. Others will not do well in the new environment, log into EN24/reddit/mitanni and begin listing different reasons as to how SOV is broken. Some will love it, some will hate it, lots of people will have “remeber when SOV mechanics where like blablabla.” Sounds familiar.

            Instead of dragging around this overdone broken SOV arguement into every post, where people complain to CCP/Coalitions/Everyoneunderthedamnsun begging for the content generator of changing SOV mechanics, start bitching at your FC’s and alliance leaders. They are the content generators.

          • How Does Joe Hear With No Ears

            No. SOV works fine. There are a massive number of alliance that hold SOV, and have used easily a dozen different methods to obtain it. At least a few of these were most likely not conceived when SOV code was written, renting and spies used to steal most notably. N3 and GSF have different ways of using their SOV, as discussed in this article. Other Coalitions keep their SOV in different ways, such as Brave Coalition and Provi-Block, which I doubt has to do with their force projection or SOV mechanics. The current set up creates lots of diversity, which is awesome.

            Changing how SOV is obtained, held or lost will change the methods that people use to play, but the outcome will be the same. Some will adapt quickly, and rule large area’s of the universe. Others will find a niche that they can exploit to survive. Others will not do well in the new environment, log into EN24/reddit/mitanni and begin listing different reasons as to how SOV is broken. Some will love it, some will hate it, lots of people will have “remeber when SOV mechanics where like blablabla.” Sounds familiar.

            Instead of dragging around this overdone broken SOV arguement into every post, where people complain to CCP/Coalitions/Everyoneunderthedamnsun begging for the content generator of changing SOV mechanics, start bitching at your FC’s and alliance leaders. They are the content generators.

        • santaclown

          Just delete sov and make all systems npc… make all stations public… make all sov benefits available to everyone … CSAAs and the likes …

          You use it you own it … no stupid mechanics …

          • Seraph IX Basarab

            Sounds like lowsec

      • AFK

        Wow sounds like a fun computer game. Nothing to do for months, hmm I do hope it’s free2play, I wouldn’t like to waste real money on this game where you do nothing for half the year.

      • AFK

        Wow sounds like a fun computer game. Nothing to do for months, hmm I do hope it’s free2play, I wouldn’t like to waste real money on this game where you do nothing for half the year.

    • EnderDragoon

      Exactly. EVE is a reproduction of the human condition. Any change made to the game will still be met by the same disposition for the need for our perceived version of security and material gain on a communal level.

  • Snot Shot

    I guess the first question I would have related to the article is why would Seraph IX Basarab leave his name off it? There are like 3 sentences written in this piece that he uses in the Fox Hole piece below. Is it because he’s written this article about 20 times before just moved paragraphs and sentence around with a few current updates to it? It would be like me writing an article about goonies and thinking no one would recognize my “slight bias” on the topic…… Anyways, just put his name on it so he can chase down every comment that comes up otherwise the guy might have a heart attack wanting to reply but fearing his “cover” might be blown.

    Now to the article. The historical accuracy is about 95% correct and with a few tweaks to get it to 100% we can use this as a plug piece when folks want to write another Coalition history of null sec piece that’s 75% accurate every 3-4 months etc.

    • Seraph IX Basarab

      I think my name being left off was an editing error rather than some ingenious plan to cover me from writing this article before. ;) BTW could you link us here this article in its previous form?

      • http://www.eveonline.com/ hoodaticus

        You mean it’s not a grand w-space conspiracy? For shame.

  • Real Talk

    CFC Victory: blue donut for about 5 minutes, then a reset to individual alliances, lots of small wars and skirmishes. Similar to the fall of Rome into medieval Europe.

    N3 Victory: Every single sovereign system rented out, low value systems used as a Hunger Games reserve for bored pvpers, any serious challenge met with overwhelming supercapital superiority, mass unsubs ensue from boredom. Similar to Oceania from Orwell’s “Nineteen Eighty Four”.

    • Random scrub.

      You are correct even though you have it backwards.

      N3 have shown they would fight each other in times of peace

      CFC have had the “blue donut” since the fall of the old northern coalition.

      • Real Talk

        What is really sinister is N3/PL grooming of BNI who don’t know any better, and turning them against their natural allies CFC. They take in new blood and turn them into bitter husks like TEST/TRIBE/EMP. The whole thing is creepy.

        • Chris

          “turning them against their natural allies CFC”

          In what way are they natural allies? If you’re referring to the whole low skill “every rifter counts” mentality, I don’t believe that they are anywhere near that kind of level anymore.

        • Northern Vet

          Didnt the CFC kick Test our of there space for isk a year ago? What are you on man

          • http://themittani.com/ Gilles Navarien

            The ISK was definately the minor part of it, TEST leadership decided to thank the CFC for helping to establish themselvesself as the (puppet) head of its new HBC coalition by turning to people like Vince Drakan and ProGod to organize a galactic wide lets shit on the CFC alliance. When Shadoo informed them that unfortunately PL wouldn’t be leading said crusade the entire plan went to shit. The Fountain War was our way of saying “thanks for trying to kill us, chums!”.

        • randombnilover

          BNI: max fun per hour
          CFC: donut anyone?

        • Marlona_Sky

          What do you mean ‘natural allies’??

        • Seraph IX Basarab

          CFC tried to do the same but failed.

        • ShamusMcFistycuffs

          rock on add another blobbinator to game it really needs it.

        • Midtown East

          You smell afraid and your agitprop isn’t working

      • http://themittani.com/ Gilles Navarien

        “N3 have shown they would fight each other in times of peace”, they have? you mean that PL have shown they are quite happy to murder N3 members other than their eternal bros NC.

        • Marlona_Sky

          NC. and PL have reset from time to time.

      • http://battorem.blogspot.com/ BattoRem

        N3 would “reset” each other but they would still rent out the rest of eve and keep their renters blue.

    • Peras

      They have to make enough isk to catch up with the CFC as they are still sitting on a ton of moon goo isk before tech was balanced a year or so ago

      • Chris

        At this point I feel like the amount of isk both entities have makes it irrelevant. They can both sustain losses for a very, very long time. Long enough where boredom and morale will go down before the warchest runs out.

        • Jevous Encule

          Unless CCP finds a way (or the courage) to game mechanics that would force the coalitions to divide their forces during conflicts. We all know this is not gona happen though.

    • 1337 PVP FTW

      Correct but you left out the part where ncdot and pl would rest everyone and shit cap blobs all over the place until people get fed up and create another super coalition to oppose them with numerical advantage.

    • EnderDragoon

      Except that only 10% of the pilots in eve live in null, even if half quit it wouldn’t change anything and would open up null to new entities to move in. If you ask me that sounds great.

  • Alpha

    Articles like these should be more chronologically written.
    It makes it so that one can grasp the sov wars and its influence spinoffs, while having a better picture of all the political landscape and why it is so.
    Other then that, is a good article. +1 for effort.

    • Seraph IX Basarab

      If I had spent more time on the history portion, I’d gave been carrying buckets of tears now of people crying that it’s “too big of a article.” Sometimes I do post those as well but I have to vary it out a bit you know? Tried to focus more on a couple aspects. Don’t worry you’ll get *history* if you want that. :)

  • Soldarius

    Obligatory “I was there” post.

    On February 13, 2011, the DRF burned a director-level spy to disband Rebellion Alliance, forcing a sov-drop across 2 constellations in Geminate. That spy went on to Gypsy Band and was given sov in Branch. More on that later.

    The remaining local residents R.A.G.E and Majesta Empire in Vale of the Silent, and Dem0n Hunters and Brick Squad in Geminate, with support from Morsus Mihi and Razor, dropped a brick wall on the DRF and contained them to the few station systems in those lost constellations, even taking back a number of the less important ones.

    It was not until April 1st that PL began participating in the war.
    eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=13260563

    And then Stella Polaris moon-walked out to live with their good buddies Gypsy Band in Branch, abandoning its Geminate sov. They died a couple months later when DRF took Branch. Both groups consisted mostly of russian renters.

    Then PL burned a director-level spy in Majesta Empire and pretty much stole the alliance. oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=1495341

    Then community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/those-anomaly-changes-in-full/ happened.
    evemaps.dotlan.net/map/Geminate#sec
    evemaps.dotlan.net/map/Vale_of_the_Silent#sec

    Whelp.

    ME/RAGE got told by Razor/MM that our space was no longer worth saving. But we could crash on their couch in Fortress Tribute so long as we pull our weight and help defend it.

    tl;dr: “We won’t help you defend your space. But you have to help us defend ours.”

    Understandably, we left them to die.

    Goons, who were actually helping out at this point, saw what was going on and rightfully decided, “Well done, faggots. Sayonara.”

    The rest is history.

    eve-files.com/media/corp/Verite/20110212.png
    eve-files.com/media/corp/Verite/20110213.png
    eve-files.com/media/corp/Verite/20110301.png
    eve-files.com/media/corp/Verite/20110401.png
    eve-files.com/media/corp/Verite/20110501.png
    eve-files.com/media/corp/Verite/20110601.png
    eve-files.com/media/corp/Verite/20110701.png

    • na

      Totally agree with events, PL metagaming was the killer blow.
      Fought Solar tooth and nail until sov was dropped (Geminate) and Solar had the heads up when this was going to happen. Only good thing to come out of it, been sovless ever since and made me a better pilot.

      Made dank isk and enjoy being deployed to cause mayhem :)

    • Guy

      This is pretty much right. The NC alliances from Tribute going east were holding on and even winning back some systems until PL came into the war.

      As far as I remember goons and some other alliances around them pretty much left the coalition to die.

      • http://battorem.blogspot.com/ BattoRem

        Well at that point in the war Old NC was not worth saving. In the end it as the egos of Razor and Morsus Mihi leadership that brought their downfall.

  • Venerable

    I agree with the comments that the history lesson is lost without a chronology. I have been playing for a year and a half. I can look up the history elsewhere, but I shouldn’t have to when you are trying to show us the history in order to prove a point.

    I like that you have attempted to describe the culture of each coalition, but I must ask, how does this affect me and why?

    If the point is that the leadership of one coalition filters through one message with one figurehead, I think you give that figurehead far too much credit. The entity is far too large for one person to control. I suspect that you see the figurehead ‘the Mittani’ but you don’t see the hundreds of others who actually do the day to day, week to week, next best step to next best step control, planning and organization.

    I also suspect that the N3/PL leadership operates in much the same way, but without the specter of a master puppeteer behind the scenes, leading each act. Both coalitions have the message in their favor.

    You do what we say, in our region or you suffer the consequences. Further both coalitions are convinced that each other is the evil empire, and with their forces they have the mutually assured destruction to look forward if either takes too many strides to affect the balance of power.

    In the modern world or during the cold war, the two super power jabbed at one another in smaller proxy wars, where smaller nations were vilified or deemed to have violated ‘basic human rights’ and then each side began a campaign (see Vietnam and Afghanistan as examples) to rid the world of the supposed danger or threat.

    History teaches us that all great empires and all great men die in the end. The mortality rate is consistently 100%. History tells us that the current empires will also eventually fall. It remains to be seen if the same hold true for Eve. I suspect it will, but the larger question is will it need in interesting game play, or will it choke itself out with the player base dying. Staying tuned.

  • Venerable

    I agree with the comments that the history lesson is lost without a chronology. I have been playing for a year and a half. I can look up the history elsewhere, but I shouldn’t have to when you are trying to show us the history in order to prove a point.

    I like that you have attempted to describe the culture of each coalition, but I must ask, how does this affect me and why?

    If the point is that the leadership of one coalition filters through one message with one figurehead, I think you give that figurehead far too much credit. The entity is far too large for one person to control. I suspect that you see the figurehead ‘the Mittani’ but you don’t see the hundreds of others who actually do the day to day, week to week, next best step to next best step control, planning and organization.

    I also suspect that the N3/PL leadership operates in much the same way, but without the specter of a master puppeteer behind the scenes, leading each act. Both coalitions have the message in their favor.

    You do what we say, in our region or you suffer the consequences. Further both coalitions are convinced that each other is the evil empire, and with their forces they have the mutually assured destruction to look forward if either takes too many strides to affect the balance of power.

    In the modern world or during the cold war, the two super power jabbed at one another in smaller proxy wars, where smaller nations were vilified or deemed to have violated ‘basic human rights’ and then each side began a campaign (see Vietnam and Afghanistan as examples) to rid the world of the supposed danger or threat.

    History teaches us that all great empires and all great men die in the end. The mortality rate is consistently 100%. History tells us that the current empires will also eventually fall. It remains to be seen if the same hold true for Eve. I suspect it will, but the larger question is will it need in interesting game play, or will it choke itself out with the player base dying. Staying tuned.

    • Ashesofempires

      Two things:

      First, while the Mittani is one of several leadership figures within the CFC, he is not a figurehead, and the message isn’t delivered by him on behalf of that leadership group. It is rather the other way around. He has a group of players who run the various parts of the coalition (finances, propaganda, logistics, spies, etc) who report to him, and they plot together, but he calls the shots in most situations.

      Second, your cold war analogy is terrible. The USSR did not start their war in Afghanistan to end a threat, they started the war to spread communism. The US did not start the Vietnam war to end a threat, they got involved in a war that had been going on since the 40′s, and had gone from an insurgency against the Japanese, to a rebellion against the French, to a civil war between North and South. The US got involved because Kennedy was concerned that if Vietnam fell, then the rest of Southeast Asia would fall, and Communism would spread.

      Note that the US was also involved in the Afghan war, using the Mujahadeen (sp?) as a proxy to fight the USSR. Note that the USSR was involved in the Vietnam war, using the air battle over North Vietnam to train their soldiers.

    • Ashesofempires

      Two things:

      First, while the Mittani is one of several leadership figures within the CFC, he is not a figurehead, and the message isn’t delivered by him on behalf of that leadership group. It is rather the other way around. He has a group of players who run the various parts of the coalition (finances, propaganda, logistics, spies, etc) who report to him, and they plot together, but he calls the shots in most situations.

      Second, your cold war analogy is terrible. The USSR did not start their war in Afghanistan to end a threat, they started the war to spread communism. The US did not start the Vietnam war to end a threat, they got involved in a war that had been going on since the 40′s, and had gone from an insurgency against the Japanese, to a rebellion against the French, to a civil war between North and South. The US got involved because Kennedy was concerned that if Vietnam fell, then the rest of Southeast Asia would fall, and Communism would spread.

      Note that the US was also involved in the Afghan war, using the Mujahadeen (sp?) as a proxy to fight the USSR. Note that the USSR was involved in the Vietnam war, using the air battle over North Vietnam to train their soldiers.

  • Soldarius

    Delve War 2012 came down to one thing and one thing only: RA’s unwillingness to defend the territory it was given.

    TEST, PL, and pets were looking for “gudfites” in Delve/Querious. Members of Deadman W0nderland within The 99 Percent had recently built these things called SBUs because PI is supposed to be dank isk. But no sov war so they weren’t really needed. With no buyers and nofuks given, someone asked aloud one day “How does sov warfare work? How do we use these things?” The response was “Lets find out.”

    SBUs were dropped in ZXB. No response. TCU was shot. Response had. That was fun. Lets do it again. This time there was no response. New TCU planted. Sov taken. I”m told the exchange between Triget and Montolio went something like this:

    Triget: “Montolio, we just sort of accidentallied sov. Wut do?”
    Montolio: “Wait. You did what?”

    Like the assassination of Arch Duke Ferdinand by Gavrilo Princip, the entire south erupted into full-blown sov warfare. The entire SoCo declared all out war on TEST, which precipitated a counter-declaration by the entirety of the CFC, all because one little corp of enthusiastic 99 Percenters decided to try out some new toys.

    We later merged with TASHA to become Tribal Band. And not one mention of us in the entire article.

    Perhaps Delve War 2012 would have started without The 99 Percent. But were were there. And we did a thing. A huge, important, and actually relevant thing.

    • GFY

      Was kind of surprised Tribal Band wasnt mentioned, myself. Before the lowsec move, and mess in Fountain. Tribal Band was there fighting with TEST, throwing it all to the meatgrinder. Much respect for the group that was Tribe, back then.

      • elnator

        I kind of wonder if the guys in tribe that kicked in $$$ towards a dedicated hosting server ever got the money back.

    • lyc

      That’s not really how it went down…

    • Failed

      Similar thing happend to kill off Cascade Imm. Some1 thought it would be fun to drop an SBU. :)

  • http://www.jamesallen.io James Allen

    This screenshot is incredible.

  • RA dude

    While I understand one can’t mention every detail of major wars in EVE when focusing on a different subject, there are lines in the paragraph about N3PL block’s history that make just too wrong impression, so I will elaborate. I am not going to claim it’s 100% correct, but I did take part in the events I speak of.

    >”Unfortunately for Nulli, RA dropped out early leaving the war to be mostly between PL and Nulli. TEST took advantage of their ally’s move and launched a full invasion of Delve and Period Basis. Nulli put up a respectable fight but were pushed into lowsec to join Amarr FW.”

    This bit, as it is, is just plain wrong. Yes, at first RA withdrew from Delve to Querious, pretty much losing to Nulli the conflict over Delve, while Nulli with allies were damn good at holding PL and TEST back. But then PL decided they weren’t winning fast enough and started to use caps, and TEST went into full deploy mode”
    Nulli and their allies started to lose and decided to temporarily join forces with RA who wanted to pay PL back for the lost titans. -A-, being an ally of Nulli for a long time, joined too. In response, TEST batphoned backup from Goons and other CFC who came in all like “Hoo hit my little brotha? Then, the large battle for Nulli’s home system C3N-3S happened between TEST/PL/CFC and Nulli+allies/RA/-A-. Nulli lost the system and the will to fight, internal problems grew large, and so Nulli just left the war and went to FW lowsec, leaving -A-, RA and others to fight the blob. As I’ve heard, at some point much later Nulli even attacked -A-.

    It is worth to note that RA lost its staging system in Querious due to PL bribing a director from sov holding corp into dropping the sov, which resulted in a sudden loss of the station and an emergency evacuation of RA into nearby npc constellation. Unlike Nulli, RA and many other guys didn’t leave the war, but continued to try their best (nothing too big, but we did manage to capture some systems back) at being a thorn in the side of PL/CFC blob that went on steamrolling Querious and Period Basis, getting closer and closer to -A- territory.
    Red Alliance was one of the last to leave that war, but the author makes it sound like we were the first ones to run away? WTF?

    >”and once the CFC finally managed to take the region from them, they left Solar and the east to fall to N3. PL and N3 allied in taking the east from Solar and their allies setting up a massive rental empire across the ancient russian regions.”

    Again, a large bit of history is simply skipped. The Solar war was started by Red Alliance and Gypsy Band (so-called LOL coalition, iirc) aiming to take back Insmother and some other regions as a bonus. PL and some TEST took part in the important battle for the strategic 1V-LI2 system, dropping on Solar supers and effectively winning the battle for the RA/Gypsy side. At that time, Solar Fleet had a large coalition, so they held their lands firmly against LOLCo alone.

    Then, Gypsy Band got tired from structure grinding, their main leader and FC DrKrom4eg left the game for real life (probably there were other reasons as well), so GB disbanded, with larger part joining the arising Darkness of Despair and the smaller part joinig RA. After losing a strong ally, RA’s leader made a pact with N3 (backed up by PL) who became a full-time participant and the powerhouse of the war, though RA still did much of the dirty structure grinding/claiming work and acted like a bait for Solar supers.

    By the time N3PL fully joined the war, some of the Solar allies’ participation already began to decrease, so don’t make it sound like N3PL simply walked in and won all by themselves.

    What I want to point at is a certain trait of N3PL: they are not too fond of losing expensive stuff, so they like to have a meatshield that would provide expendable dps, hp buffer and tackle and/or bait an escalation to caps/supers, while N3PL would get 1337 kills with their shiny toys. PL had TEST meatshild in the Delve war, RA was meatshield for N3 in the Solar war, TEST was meatshield for N3 in the Fountain war, DSP and other pets were N3PL meathsield in the Halloween war, and now it looks like HERO coalition is the next candidate for this role. And so far, every “meatshield” ally N3(PL) had was thrown overboard as soon as it got into trouble or started to talk back. This is something that is not so apparent, if present at all, in case of Goons/CFC.

    P.S. >”Throughout the conflict, the GSF, (which had had good relations with elements in the Russian community, specifically Red Alliance).”
    With added parentheses, it is obvious that the sentence is not finished. Either that or ‘which’ is excessive and misguiding.

    • Seraph IX Basarab

      If I’m writing an article specifically about that conflict I would go much more in depth. But yes I do appreciate these sort of posts because it allows people who are interested to look at more specific aspects related to the article, they can.

      Not sure what happened with the sentence you made mention of. I’ll take a look.

    • Barkaway

      Goons are no better they have always had a big meatshield around them.. just look at the last war, they had a big Russian meatshield..

    • Barkaway

      Goons are no better they have always had a big meatshield around them.. just look at the last war, they had a big Russian meatshield..

    • MacTeps Pram Shield

      You’re forgetting MacTep making demands on INK. This was the catalyst for the Solar downfall. Be4 this, Gypys/INK fought with Solar against NC.

    • MacTeps Pram Shield

      You’re forgetting MacTep making demands on INK. This was the catalyst for the Solar downfall. Be4 this, Gypys/INK fought with Solar against NC.

  • Ex-Eve vet

    I though there would be a war this summer?

  • Guest

    You managed to go an entire article without some attempt at self aggrandizement – Good Job Seraph!

  • Guest

    You managed to go an entire article without some attempt at self aggrandizement – Good Job Seraph!

    • Jack

      And it was a fairly well written article. I’m in one of the blocs discussed and it was a reasonably fair assessment, if anything maybe a bit overzealous in hasty generalizations, but pretty good.

    • Jack

      And it was a fairly well written article. I’m in one of the blocs discussed and it was a reasonably fair assessment, if anything maybe a bit overzealous in hasty generalizations, but pretty good.

  • Kimsemus

    Black Legion hasn’t recovered from losses in the past year, and they’re not exactly treated as enemies by us right now either. In general, your perspectives on N3 are rather dated/clearly from the outside looking in. You could have had an easier time just interviewing respective leaders if you wanted a clear picture instead of speculating.

    • Seraph IX Basarab

      Well i was discussing the Tribute War so by definition it’s going to be dated. Also i’m not as “out looking in” as you think.

    • narrowminded

      This article is extremely “easy-minded” and doesnt reflect either coalition very well. The assumptions made are too easy.

      CFC has way more “heads” than just mittani, f.e. also the claim that GSF keeps their allies down, is true to some distinct, but it’s not the all-in-one truth. Shit article by Shitnewssite.

      • Seraph IX Basarab

        Of course there are people in leadership positions besides the Mittani in the CFC. What was meant in the article if you could discern is that there is no equivalent to Mittens in N3/PL.

  • Garandras

    I actually wonder what kind of warfare will happen when they eventually release player made stargates.. Opening up new regions of space and/or making new routes through current null.

    But really a lot of people complaining about the lack of major war.. people should be happy and focus on small gang/roams go while there are a lot of people blue to each other in the end you are only blue to half of Null at most in the current environment… People just need to be more willing to travel further then 15 jumps to get a fight. For example since -A- lost its sov I have been having a lot more fun.. not being in a major war means I can freely fly with mates I have on the ‘Other side’

    this is really a opportunity for the F1 pushers to actually go out and learn how to PvP

  • Garandras

    I actually wonder what kind of warfare will happen when they eventually release player made stargates.. Opening up new regions of space and/or making new routes through current null.

    But really a lot of people complaining about the lack of major war.. people should be happy and focus on small gang/roams go while there are a lot of people blue to each other in the end you are only blue to half of Null at most in the current environment… People just need to be more willing to travel further then 15 jumps to get a fight. For example since -A- lost its sov I have been having a lot more fun.. not being in a major war means I can freely fly with mates I have on the ‘Other side’

    this is really a opportunity for the F1 pushers to actually go out and learn how to PvP

  • ShamusMcFistycuffs

    we want them both…..ahhh tooo be dead……and comments below is like smug wars…

  • ShamusMcFistycuffs

    we want them both…..ahhh tooo be dead……and comments below is like smug wars…

  • Andy Koraka

    There really is no idealogy difference. Both the CFC and N3/PL are held together by two factors: shared incomes (renters, cartels, ect), and smutual defense, to leave either group means forfeiting both their income and place on the Sov map.

    As far as culture, I wouldn’t characterize anyone in N3 besides NCdot as :elite: and both sides ultimately post the same shitty reddit memes and tell the same racist/mysoginistic/offensive jokes.

    • Seraph IX Basarab

      To be sure the entities are much more similar than they are different. No question there.

  • Bob V.

    NC. and PL are shit, plain and simple, pure shit! CFC will piss on both their graves in the near future. Also, this just in: Grath is an ego dick whore, Vince is a flat out jerk, and PGL is just plain old fashion retarded.

    Any questions?

  • Bob V.

    NC. and PL are shit, plain and simple, pure shit! CFC will piss on both their graves in the near future. Also, this just in: Grath is an ego dick whore, Vince is a flat out jerk, and PGL is just plain old fashion retarded.

    Any questions?

    • Seraph IX Basarab

      Well when you put it that way…

      • Bob V.

        I liked your article, but we’ve all heard the rage soundbites that both Vince and Grath can voice, it isn’t pretty. PGL, well, yeah he’s just as thick as a brick.

        I don’t understand why anyone in PL or NC. would put up with that. Do you guys think that little of yourselves to be talked down to or yelled at like that? The only screams we will enjoy is when Mitten’s turns both Grath and Vince over and ass blasts them with his sand covered love missile.

      • Bob V.

        I liked your article, but we’ve all heard the rage soundbites that both Vince and Grath can voice, it isn’t pretty. PGL, well, yeah he’s just as thick as a brick.

        I don’t understand why anyone in PL or NC. would put up with that. Do you guys think that little of yourselves to be talked down to or yelled at like that? The only screams we will enjoy is when Mitten’s turns both Grath and Vince over and ass blasts them with his sand covered love missile.

        • Mr Blue

          meanwhile in CFC you got certain leader a so drunk on his own smugness he would have failed a breathalyzer test
          and on his spare time hes telling people to kill themself IRL on a stage infront of hundreds of people. Im sure any serious internett gaming groups got their share of egocentric leaders that sometimes do silly things, tho the rage and “kill yourself irl” episodes isnt usually what defines them. Most of them accually got more and bether sides to them than that, even tho you as a outsider might not see it.

        • Kullen

          Try FC major nul sec fleets and you will understand fast how this happends…:P

        • Kullen

          Try FC major nul sec fleets and you will understand fast how this happends…:P

  • Kamar Raimo

    Little detail: Li3 was never kicked out of the CFC. MPX which was a good friend of Li3 got kicked out of SMA. Li3 leadership took in MPX and decided that their potential for growth would be higher if they joined the then emergent HBC. Later they jumped ship again when it turned out that things didn’t work out that well with HBC/TEST either.

    Also, Seraph, I know English is not your first language, and I totally forgive you spelling mistakes or the occasional odd use of language. You do have quite a few sentences in this piece which start somewhere but lead nowhere though. That is not a lack of language proficiency but just bad editing.

    I am sure you can do that better.

    • Seraph IX Basarab

      I’ll try to keep it more simple next time.

    • Seraph IX Basarab

      I’ll try to keep it more simple next time.

  • Kullen

    Alternativly is that both CFC and N3 will keep standing.

  • Angelique Duchemin

    Conquer space. Rent it out, Use the isk to build Titans in preparation for the next B-R.

    That’s null in a nutshell.

    Any differences between the coalitions is just roleplaying. There’s no “out of character” greater morality on either side. Just war or preparation for war at the amusement of the participants.

  • Patrick Kilroy

    I remember when Seraph wanted to be the “PL of covert ops”.

    Was pretty funny.

    • Seraph IX Basarab

      I remember when you didn’t always talk about me.

      Oh wait, I don’t.

      Go make friends.

  • Karma_Will_Get_You

    CFC blobs with numbers, PL/N3 blob with caps…both cry about something. One about the caps, the other about the numbers(4 to 1 crap). Both have their group of assholes and cool guys. However, it’s N3′s fault for making CFC stronger. They dropped caps on the little guys, a lot of those little guys go an join a group to fight them like CFC. They reap what they sow.

  • Karma_Will_Get_You

    CFC blobs with numbers, PL/N3 blob with caps…both cry about something. One about the caps, the other about the numbers(4 to 1 crap). Both have their group of assholes and cool guys. However, it’s N3′s fault for making CFC stronger. They dropped caps on the little guys, a lot of those little guys go an join a group to fight them like CFC. They reap what they sow.

  • Cyber God

    Well written, cogent, and relevant…..thank you!

  • indy

    good article, but the truth is and was for a long time that Goons are the USA of EVE, they control the game and allow everyone else to have just enough power to make things interesting but the system is rigged, cohen’s song comes to mind lol, everybody knows… i would add everybody who is anybody does, the others probably know too but only subconsciously, give them the damn red pill already ;)

  • Dave from SMA

    This was a great read it was just missing one key statement of fact. The N3 bras are loosers. Now before you all start raging and I get my normal dose of stupid replies let me explain why. 1. Although great at PVP they have the deplomatic skills of leper. No other group of people have managed to isolate and alienate so many factions. The Russian war at the end of this year was a great example if they would have not been such terrible neighbours then AAA would not have got close to Solar. 2. is the composition, lets face it N3 have so much Ego getting them to do anything together must be an huge effort. To keep those ego’s under control must take iron will and despotic tendancies which far exceed our humble leaders. Proof of this is look at how many times different corpses end up in different alliances. 3. Common goal these guys are all working to other agendas and can not do anything of note together or if they do they just loose lots of titans. The best example of this is PL and indirectly NC. indirectly siding with us, priceless!. So although on a corp by corp or alliance basis they are individually formidable, together they are worthless.
    Long Live the CFC, may SMA now go from strength to strength

    Dave

    • santaclown

      Dave… Please… come back to Fountain… FA misses you! <3

    • santaclown

      Dave… Please… come back to Fountain… FA misses you! <3