Comments

An often discussed subject to do with capital ships in null sec bloc warfare is Power Projection created from the proliferation of capitals, super-caps and titans and their abilities to ‘teleport’ themselves (and others in the case of titans) vast distances across the EVE universe. After reading over articles that I have read on many blog websites including an article from Marlona Sky. I had an epiphany to do with power projection in EVE and a possible solution or two to this issue.

Unlike Marlona who had the idea of PPP or Power Projection Pool which, while it would be effective, I think it would be somewhat heavy-handed, especially on the little guy. What I propose is mass limitation upon cynosural field generators.

Cynosural Mass Limitation

To shed a little more light on the concept, I shall elaborate upon that which I envisioned. As it stands today there is nothing to stop you from moving 200 Archons from the north to the south and vice versa through low or null-sec at an incredibly rapid pace. The only things you need are cynosural fields and stations. Jump, Dock, Undock ,Rinse, Repeat you all know how this concept works.

What I propose is, as it says on the tin, a mass cap to the cyno. Let us say for example that the mass cap for the cyno is 12,000,000,000kg. This would allow ten Archons, nine revelations, seven Aeon or five Avatars to jump through the cyno before it reaches critical mass and thus become unusable for the remaining time of its ten minute timer. Using this method you would need either a far larger amount of cynos on field at the beginning of the fight or have to jump/bridge a large number of cynos to the first cyno to circumvent the problem. Thus requiring more time and/or effort to get larger fleets into system. To elaborate on this to get enough cynosural fields onto grid you would have to either have certain carriers, super-caps or titans to be fitted with a cyno and be prepared to be a giant pinata for the ten minute duration, risking being bumped and unable to stop due to the way that the cyno mechanic works. To counter this issue you would have to bridge a subcap fleet onto field to be able to swap fleets in a calm and fast manner to be able to light enough cynos for the remainder of your capital escalation fleet to get on grid and into the fray.

Using this concept it could severely limit the use of one staging system in one corner of EVE to cover all the corners of your sovereignty in a timely manner and encourage the use of multiple staging systems such as a southern and a northern staging system across your Space Empire manned by those whomever live closest to that area.

 

Tethered Bridging

This little idea ages back to an old thread I was told by one of my corp members that exists in the back rooms of the Features & Ideas Thread on the Eve Online forums.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=262318

However where this thread lists that all capitals should be able to drag a complement of sub-capitals in their space wake I feel that this is slightly too strong and should stay strictly as a titan operation only. One titan would be able to bring a full fleet of 256 members including itself onto the field at the fuel cost of the titan jumping and the standard strontium costs as they are calculated currently. This would make larger alliances be more cautious when they have to commit titans onto the field when bringing sub capitals* and of course how they are fit. Whether to go in with full tank and take longer to recharge or take a risk and tether onto the enemy fleet full capacitor fit to get out more quickly or even perhaps a mix of the two.

Perhaps another way to solve this would be to bridge to an adjacent system and then travel by gate to the battlefield.This could possibly cause smaller fights to erupt in the surrounding area of the main battle due to the enemy employing blocking tactics to stop your reinforcements from making it onto the battlefield in time. However this would still be far more dangerous with a chance of the bridging ship being tackled by the enemy in an adjacent system to the main engagement.

*Of course conversely this severely limits smaller entities in their activities as many entities in low-sec and null-sec cannot field enough numbers to save a titan if it is caught before it has enough capacitor to jump back to relative safety.

 

Tethering Cynosural Field

In addition to the tethering concept I would propose a specific module for titans to jump to with sub-capitals tethered due to warp/jump harmonics requiring a different type of cynosural field rather than using a standard cynosural field, this module would have a smaller mass limit. Thus limiting the mass to the approximate amount of slightly higher than a titan with a full fleet in tow this would then limit the amount of sub-capitals to be thrown through one Tethering Cyno. Also the need of this module to bridge sub-capitals would eliminate the issue of being able to get more shield-based sub-capitals through the cyno opposed to armour sub-capitals which was mentioned in the comments of the tethering suggestion in the features and ideas thread linked above.

 

Covert Tethering Cynosural Field

Not to leave out the black ops in this restructure, The black ops battleships would also have mass limitations and need to tether the bombers, tech 3’s, covert transport ships and other black ops battleships to themselves when they bridge. For example lets say the mass limitation on the Covert Tethering Cynosural Field is 7,850,000,000kg this would allow a large fleet of say 50 black ops battleships with approximately 4 fuel trucks to bridge into a system or easily an entire fleet of bombers if for some unknown reason you happen to need 200+ bombers.

 

Singular or Combination?

Both of these suggestions would change the way warfare in EVE is conducted.

As a singular method the Cynosural Mass Limitation has a strong balancing aspect to it due to if you want extra forces or to carry a larger fleet of capitals into battle it is not simply Light, Drop and Pop as it has a larger logistical issue behind it from having to have the cyno characters in place to carry the size of fleet you want/need to get the objective completed. This method as a stand alone part would encourage more sub-capital battles with capital escalations rather than a more capital centralized style of warfare.

As a stand-alone option however the Tethered Bridging is a little too heavy handed on its application. Due to smaller entities in low and null being able to field the bridging titan yet not being able to field the numbers to defend it when it enters the destination system. I feel that this as it stands is unbalanced in the favour of larger entities and not smaller entities trying to stake their claim in null-sec.

Combined together these would perhaps make null-sec a faster more brutal style of play to get combat done and the objective achieved before the enemy capitals can arrive en-masse.

 

Summary

In summary the singular change of Cynosural Mass Limitation would be a minor change for smaller entities who move smaller amounts of capitals from A to B. An example of this would be cynoing two or three triage carriers in to system to support your tech 3 fleet who were struggling to hold reps. Also moving home from an area such as Genesis and deciding to settle in Syndicate for the better PvP activity should still be a relatively minor undertaking.

Where as the Cynosural Mass Limitation would be a major change for large null-sec entities and coalitions due to the limitations on the mass able to pass through a cyno, the logistical coordination in getting your 150 strong Boot fleet from A to B is vastly increased in people and effort. This would, and can effectively slow down the speed of capital and supercapital escalation perhaps giving the fight a chance to happen with minimal capital interference from all involved parties.

The singular change of the Tethered Bridging would be a major change for both small and large entities possibly causing more harm than good in regards to the health of PvP in EVE as a whole. The reason for this possible stagnation using this concept as a singular is that smaller entities will be unwilling to commit to the fight due to fears of the loss of one of their few and far between superweapons. A similar reason is concurrent with the larger entities of New Eden who may be unwilling to bridge their sub-capitals into the battle directly due to fears of instant capital escalation from the opposing side.

The combined changed of both of these would still be a major change toward the way smaller fleet fights are conducted as I have previously stated that they may not have the capability to keep their prized possessions away from an end at their enemies hands thus perhaps causing stand-downs rather than combat. This may however encourage a high stakes short and brutal race to win a battle before the enemies capitals and super capitals can get to the fray for larger entities.

– Ogast

I am a terrible EVE Online player who often plays rotten drunk, has a vulgar sense of humor and has a proficiency at dying in any ship I can get my drunken pod into.

Special thanks to the following people for helping with ideas, constructive criticism and reading over my post. DrJonF Rockit, Thomasina, Syrias Bizniz, Stilicho Theodosius, Althurus Vendrius, Veldruk Grimm, Twyn, Lucius Demeter, Keneasy, Anna, Wim.

277 Comments

  1. PL Cyno grunt

    Did you use much toilet paper concocting this rubbish?

    June 22, 2014 at 22:07 Reply
  2. PL Cyno grunt

    Did you use much toilet paper concocting this rubbish?

    June 22, 2014 at 22:07 Reply
  3. no, just no

    i disagree, sry.

    June 22, 2014 at 22:32 Reply
  4. Jakes

    Nothing is mentioned about jumpbridges, if you are going to talk about power projection, it’s idiotic to not mention the vast jumpbridge networks that allows people to travel from Brench to Period basis, or Cobalt edge to Period basis. The power projection from jumpbridge networks, and what it allows(blue everyone around you), far exceeds the problem revolving around capital power projection, yet for some unknown reason it isn’t even mentioned.

    June 22, 2014 at 22:35 Reply
    1. Joe Mettai

      It was written by someone in “The Bastion” who is in a coalition with the largest jumpbridge network in the game, of course they are calling for a nerf to capital power projection, well ignoring sub-capital power projection.

      June 22, 2014 at 22:44 Reply
    2. Joe Mettai

      It was written by someone in “The Bastion” who is in a coalition with the largest jumpbridge network in the game, of course they are calling for a nerf to capital power projection, well ignoring sub-capital power projection.

      June 22, 2014 at 22:44 Reply
      1. Ogast

        For about another week the region The Bastion lives in has no jump bridges. Just sayin 🙂

        June 23, 2014 at 01:27 Reply
      2. Coalitions don’t have JB networks – alliances do.

        June 23, 2014 at 02:23 Reply
        1. Joe Mettai

          Were you born retarded, or did something happen since birth that made you retarded?

          Anyone blue to an alliance can use their jumpbridge network. The fact that needed to be explained to you is hilarious.

          June 23, 2014 at 02:57 Reply
        2. GLC

          Guns don’t kill people Rappers do.

          June 23, 2014 at 10:30 Reply
          1. Maggot

            I seen it on a documentary on bbc two

            June 23, 2014 at 10:47
          2. GLC

            I really wish you were really maggot 🙂

            The best song was about the bird that beats up men, i forget what it was called and am to lazy to google it, but either way, very good.

            June 23, 2014 at 14:23
  5. Jevous Encule

    Good proposition or not, CCP wont listen. And even if they do, they cant do significant changes that require major re-coding.

    June 22, 2014 at 22:48 Reply
    1. Joe Mettai

      It’s a stupid idea, written by a group of people that only want changes that suit them.

      June 22, 2014 at 22:50 Reply
  6. Theryn

    Unlike Marlona who had the idea of PPP or Power Projection Pool which touched on all types of power projection, from capitals, to jump clones, to jump-bridges. Ogast thought it would be better to only suggest nerfs to power projection that would hurt his enemy, well allowing power projection that works in his and his allies favor to say unchanged.

    Even if you didn’t like Marlona’s PPP idea, atleast you could respect that he wasn’t proposing a favorably bias idea, like this Ogast dude is. I don’t even have to look this guy up on evekill, as it’s pretty clear which side of the map this guy lives on.

    June 22, 2014 at 23:36 Reply
  7. Theryn

    Unlike Marlona who had the idea of PPP or Power Projection Pool which touched on all types of power projection, from capitals, to jump clones, to jump-bridges. Ogast thought it would be better to only suggest nerfs to power projection that would hurt his enemy, well allowing power projection that works in his and his allies favor to say unchanged.

    Even if you didn’t like Marlona’s PPP idea, atleast you could respect that he wasn’t proposing a favorably bias idea, like this Ogast dude is. I don’t even have to look this guy up on evekill, as it’s pretty clear which side of the map this guy lives on.

    June 22, 2014 at 23:36 Reply
    1. Ogast

      Personally I tried to be unbiased so could you explain why I was not? Thanks

      June 23, 2014 at 01:26 Reply
    2. Ogast

      Personally I tried to be unbiased so could you explain why I was not? Thanks

      June 23, 2014 at 01:26 Reply
      1. Theryn

        You only want to nerf power projection in capitals, and super capital. Go read Marlona’s idea again and try to figure out how many other forms of power projection there is out there, and which one(you unironically skipped over) would hurt your own alliance/block the most.

        June 23, 2014 at 01:58 Reply
        1. Ogast

          Okay then I must have over looked that in my rush to find the part about PPP. My apologies

          June 23, 2014 at 04:02 Reply
  8. Garandras

    The problem with most of these nerf power projection options, they tend to be countered very easily with one simple step.. Have more cyno alts >_>

    June 22, 2014 at 23:47 Reply
    1. günther o

      yeah, should be no problem to pay thousands of them with some renting peanuts. some account sharing and you can still jump to any location ingame.

      June 23, 2014 at 11:47 Reply
  9. LaLola

    Yup retarded noobtard Ogast decided to totally ignore the biggest tool and the one who should be totally removed from game: Jump Bridges

    June 23, 2014 at 00:22 Reply
    1. Trauma Council

      As far as power projection is concerned, Jump Bridges are the least of our worries. They have far more fixed end points than Titan bridges and are generally used by the defenders for purposes of fleet positioning. They pretty much just give a defensive bonus, don’t they?

      June 23, 2014 at 13:10 Reply
      1. gg

        You can make an argument that it is a quality of life thing for faster movment, to get to red regions, and roam. This is what is fucked up about them at the same time, because all blues can use them, you can just blue everyone around you, and use ally JB’s to get to red regions. It’s not the least of our worries, it’s perhaps the biggest problem we have in the game at the moment as it actually facilitates, and encourages huge blue blob regions.

        June 23, 2014 at 16:06 Reply
  10. Rhoaden

    Maybe in the case of J/B make it so you can ethier have a J/B anchored or weapons not both and then reduce the Hp so small gangs can impact on larger allainces. this wouldn’t really nerf the J/B network but simply make it a little more vunrable

    June 23, 2014 at 01:10 Reply
    1. There’s already a gate between JB links….

      June 23, 2014 at 02:16 Reply
      1. lulz

        and…..?

        June 23, 2014 at 02:53 Reply
  11. Sense

    Just reduce jump range and reduce fuel usage accordingly for all Caps, bridges are OP, and should be removed, in its place, any POS should be able to have a JB, whether you own the system or not because this both creates content and adds a new mechanic for players to figure the best way to exploit, strategic systems will become more important and what not… But force projection is such an easy fix, everyone’s trying to find the “complicated fix” when it could just be as simple as reducing projection range

    June 23, 2014 at 03:42 Reply
  12. lmao

    so much grrrrr goons in this comments. Clearly it’s all Goons fault. Nobody please ever talk about PL and NC. ruining every fight by dropping supers/titans on it and starting all that race to arms.

    Also lol at the guy talking about CFC not having the biggest cap fleet in game. CFC can easily field more caps than N3PL subcaps. But we all know that titans grow on magic pineapple-spacetrees in drones and PL already has over 9000 titans ready to win the next war, like they always do…. oh wait.

    June 23, 2014 at 03:56 Reply
      1. nomad

        nomad pls m8m8m8m8m8m8. must suck to lose every war vs. grrrrr goons. cool story at 11. nomad pls tryhards

        June 23, 2014 at 09:02 Reply
    1. lol

      Once you lost your mind you lost it all haven’t ya? Can’t get any worse than that … All the way downhill from there.

      June 23, 2014 at 08:01 Reply
  13. The trick is to make it interesting, whilst achieving your ends, put a capacity on number of jumps into a system. When you go above the number, there is a chance something will go wrong, a rift will tear in time-space and the jumping ship is sucked through to an unknown destination that could be anywhere from within the same system, to the next region over. and the more that come in over the cap, the higher the likelihood of the jump failing and you disappear somewhere. If you have a POS in the system, there could be an array that provides stability to increase the number of ships allowed in for the POS owners corp/alliance, takes a day to online though, so you don’t have someone come in just before a battle and online a POS and hang one.

    It rewards the initiative, as the group that jumps the most in early gets a boost

    Presents the option of benefit to the defender, ie an entrenched entity should be harder to remove.

    Also, with ships getting bumped to nearby systems, you will see other battles break out nearby, or a cap could end up smack in the middle of renter space with noone to stop him. But it is all chance

    June 23, 2014 at 07:03 Reply
  14. The one you know ?

    well, but then you just bridge some other cynos with your fleet and open about 10 new ones after landing to bring the other 100 archons

    how about making it more riskier ? Titan bridges only work as “bubbles” that suck the titan itself in and bridge him to the destination after his cycle ended

    June 23, 2014 at 09:38 Reply
    1. moi

      So what, now people would be scrambling blue titans with infinipoint from a hictor so it doesn’t jump? How about just fixing pos collisions so you could not bridge fleets by sticking titans but from a POS?

      June 24, 2014 at 08:31 Reply
  15. BS

    Kill and reimburse every Cap and up in the game. Problem solved

    June 23, 2014 at 09:58 Reply
  16. -A- is STILL shit

    You Sir are a complete fucking idiot and should never post again. The End

    June 23, 2014 at 11:57 Reply
  17. AFK

    No one can fix this game. Sov was a broken concept to begin with so you may as well make the best of it that you can.

    June 23, 2014 at 14:28 Reply
  18. ShamusMcFistycuffs

    problem is NOT force projection its the fact that you dont have 10 hostile regions in bwtween from where you are coming from and where you are going. Its fatblobbicus map now making it easy. Never was an issue until rent my space empire time

    June 23, 2014 at 15:56 Reply
  19. Not a super pilot

    The simplest solutin will be fixing cap recharge:
    1. When you dock your shields/cap do not recharge instantly. Regen is doubled instead. Also station repairs should take time. You can pay to increase recharge speed but it should not be instant.
    2. Energy transfers berak laws of physics (having more than 100% efficiency), that should be fixed. Non bonused ships max out at 75% efficiency, bonused at 94%, officer mods may hit 99%.
    3. Light stacking penalty on cap rechargers, so fitting more than 5 is a waste.
    With those changes cap fit thanatos can jump once every 5-6 minutes.

    The second part of problem is jump range.
    It is a bad game design that you can cover entire galaxy in 9 jumps.
    http://evemaps.dotlan.net/jump/Thanatos,555/M-VACR:MVUO-F
    Jump range should be radically shortened to 3l.y for a carrier with jdc5. Below is a link how that range would look like.
    http://evemaps.dotlan.net/range/Redeemer,0/MVUO-F

    To help with moving ships and logistics you could add boosters that increase allowed jump range(+100%), but cripple your combat abilities, reducing scan resolution, targetting range, armor and shield hp with long lasting negative effects(12 hours-24 hours)
    Bring on the flames.

    June 23, 2014 at 17:06 Reply
  20. Real talk

    Interesting fact: if the entire population of Monaco were to sit down and play Eve, it is uncertain whether they would be able to take one single solar system.

    June 23, 2014 at 17:16 Reply
    1. BS

      Wow you must be murrican.

      June 23, 2014 at 19:00 Reply
  21. Dave From Razor

    Nah this just does not work for us. In order for larger entities to survive we need to have mechanics which allow you to get from A to B quickly. I think a resource based system is best placed to deliver this as that allows you true reflection of your might. I mean lets be honest some players deserve to have and keep space. Others are the victims of either lack of skill or have not sided with a group of like minded individuals who will help protect their assets. Both these traits leave to failure and ultimately their demise. The Russians are the best examples of this, lots of ambition, no political skills to speak of and no ammo in the gun to back up the space swagger.
    See you in a system near you victims
    Long live Razor, long live the CFC
    Dave

    June 23, 2014 at 17:19 Reply
    1. Malaclypse

      The first part of this post i like, a resource based system makes sense to me, but your arrogant second half is contradictory to the idea. The idea is to make it more costly for people to keep vast areas in space. If you really value that one stupid system that no one really uses, just for chest beating? Pay for it to defend it then, i like that. Because rich as you are, if its costly to defend, eventually you won’t.

      June 23, 2014 at 19:44 Reply
      1. Dave From Razor

        I am not arrogant just a realist with strong views.

        June 24, 2014 at 17:17 Reply
        1. Ur Stupid

          You are a bit arrogant.

          June 25, 2014 at 13:10 Reply
  22. TATSHURTEVE

    I suggested something like this ALONG time ago, titans SHOULD be attached to the fleet there bridging, if you had to risk a titan EVERY TIME you bridged a fleet you would be more likely to not do it and move your fleet by gates for at least a few jumps, so it would bring back the days of having a fllet fight stretch out over a few system’s rather than EVERYONE in one system.

    June 23, 2014 at 17:35 Reply
    1. BS

      thats utter bullshit

      June 23, 2014 at 18:59 Reply
  23. Tarsas Phage

    Power projection is another made-up problem. It’s not really an issue, it’s just the next thing people have made up to bitch and moan about (because we apparently can’t have an Eve where there’s nothing to bitch and moan about), and any “fix” CCP might acquiesce to would be just as false and breaking of things.

    See also other “game breaking” non-problems that are (or were) griped about such as links, jump clones, tracking titans, wormholes, ganking, griefing on and on and on. More have-nots wanting to even it up with the haves not through time and skill but through game changes. Too many spoiled european social socialist kids playing this game, I tell you.

    June 23, 2014 at 20:06 Reply
    1. Jevous Encule

      “any “fix” CCP might acquiesce to would be just as false and breaking of things.”
      =========
      Eve is already broken.

      June 23, 2014 at 20:15 Reply
    2. Senex Legio 1

      I don’t agree with you that it is not a problem. However, as to the need to bitch and moan about stuff, you are right on about the EVE community.

      June 23, 2014 at 20:17 Reply
  24. Nullsec Overlord

    The true problem with power projection is the shitty alliances that break apart in a month. May be if you werent the ultimate collection of crying shitlords you’d not have the problem with the power.

    June 23, 2014 at 20:47 Reply
  25. RanchRifle

    Use a sliding scale of mass/distance. The higher the mass, the shorter the distance it can be jumped. The lower the mass the longer the distance. At maximum range (current range) a single titan could land. Now, you have a REALLY interesting set of choices to make.

    June 24, 2014 at 00:29 Reply
    1. Ogast

      I like the sound of that to be honest.

      June 24, 2014 at 01:25 Reply
    2. CarlGustav

      Thats VERY interesting so opening a Cyno for 2 Carriers to jump i can cut away a midpoint? now we are talking !!!!

      This fixes the problem with Logistic nightmare for nullsec.
      think about it 1-2 JF doing a supply run cutting out a midpoint will make a huge difference especialy in thoes hard to reach places

      I like it !!!

      But before we Nerf cynos lets give Super Carriers and Titans a better defined role.

      I want them to have On field roles thats unique and allow them to be fielded with Capitals and sub capitals. here is some example of ideas i have found.

      Titans:Seige mode like — Expanding there shield out and hardening it making them immobilized for a fixed amount of time and acting like a Small pos (They are still targetable and can still target enemies but everyone else in bubble is immune) In seige mode they do increased damage.

      Super Carriers : Fix the CloneVats and allow them be used if your in fleet and in system with it. Giving them some nice interface to hand out ships for isk to members who died will allow SC to be used as Instant reinforcements with a mass limitations due to number of stuff in hull.

      Its not game breaking but it will give the supers an additional way of helping there fleet.
      and perhaps will be used more in combined fleets not like now only in Capital fleets.

      June 25, 2014 at 07:01 Reply
  26. ShamusMcFistycuffs

    try this……stop blueing up 98.5% of the map and itll work itself out. try projecting as one alliance across 10 hostile regions see how it goes.

    June 24, 2014 at 01:01 Reply
    1. brathahn

      if you stop blue balling 98.5% of the map the renter concept will not work anymore. at the moment EVE 0.0 fleet fights are limited to providence, the rest is dead.

      June 24, 2014 at 11:38 Reply
      1. ShamusMcFistycuffs

        Agreed. What I cant understand is how these coalition members are whining about how bad things are yet all they wanna do is collect renter loot.

        June 24, 2014 at 15:22 Reply
      2. gg

        Solar, and Xdeath were renting space long before the two coalition dynamic.

        June 24, 2014 at 16:26 Reply
        1. brathahn

          yes, that was drone region, now you have also the complete angel, sansha and blood raider space as renting space + parts of guristas and serpentis.

          drone region was always a dead region for content, but all the other regions created a massive amount of content with all the small alliances and fornmer coalitions with all their back stabing and so on. today its only dead because of renting all over space with a minority stocking up their supers and plexes with all their renting income.

          EVE is not content driven anymore in 0.0, it’s all about how to earn fast money and keep the people with the shinys ingame by paying their gametime with plexes.

          providence will not hold for ever and to be honest, heads up for their straight way to not get paid by PL/NC to create content for them.

          the 2 mega coalition situation is very bad for EVE and is killing EVE slowly. even if they would fight each other, how will it end ? it will be a fucking blue renting donut, doesn’t matter which side wins.

          June 25, 2014 at 07:21 Reply
          1. Ur Stupid

            People have said EVE is dying for years, I wonder when it will finally die?

            June 25, 2014 at 13:04
    2. Afk

      But I must make tons of blues other wise I will lose imaginary space and imaginary assets, which is apparently is something that absolutely must not happen in this fake pixel world.

      June 24, 2014 at 15:28 Reply
  27. Javafanatic

    Of course to buy any of this would presume there is an actual problem. News flash: big fights generate media attention and therefore in the best interest of the business.

    June 24, 2014 at 02:52 Reply
    1. Mike Larry

      Best interest of the business?

      That’s debatable really. Most people that see TiDi fights on twitch and youtube think it’s the dumbest thing they have ever seen, and will never even try EVE simply because they have seen a TiDi fight. I would argue TiDi fights if ever seen by potential players on twitch is perhaps the worst thing you could possibly show someone. I personally have a handful of friends from my gaming community that have never, and will never try EVE simply because they have seen a TiDi fight.

      June 24, 2014 at 05:56 Reply
      1. Javafanatic

        Epic fights (whether you like them or not) get picked up by the Associated Press which gets syndicated to 100s of news sites and dozens of bloggers fill up space on websites with the details. Please let me know when the last 25 man gate camp / skirmish achieved that marketing footprint… oh wait…

        June 24, 2014 at 20:35 Reply
        1. Mike Larry

          It has nothing to do with how much I, or you like big fights, it’s how much a potential players thinks he will like it after seeing it. Your saying it gets covrage from the game sites, and bloggers, I’m saying people then go to youtube, and twitch and watch it, and see…. well you know what they see. There is a metric on how many new subs EVE gets from those big fights, and they that bump lasts about three months, but there is no metric to show how many people watch those fights, and say fuck that shit, that looks terrible, and they tell their friends it’s terrible without even playing it.

          There is a saying…”There is no bad publicity”, and this is kinda the idea that you are trying to push. You’re saying it gets publicity, and even if it’s notoriety it’s still adding to the game. I’m saying it’s awful publicity when it comes to gamers, because Twitch is pretty mainstream in gaming community’s, and word of mouth in those community’s carry’s much more weight then some online outlets AP story written by someone that doesn’t even play the game, or perhaps any game at all. I have tried to get others in my gaming community to try EVE, and I have at least five tell him/her it’s bad, along with a link to a TiDi fight.

          What I find really funny is, you are actually implying that a medium gang youtube, or twitch fight wouldn’t be good publicity compared to a TiDi fight. I would for instance show a RnK video to entice a potential new players over any TiDi fight. It’s foolish to think seeing a TiDi fight would entice anyone in playing. It’s like telling a friend, “Yeah, you should come Spain for the running of the bull, here watch this video of this dude getting gored, and trampled by some bulls”

          June 24, 2014 at 21:57 Reply
          1. Javafanatic

            Sure Twitch is all the rage for mega nerds who have time to both play games and watch other people play games but when the adults sit down in the room and the money is on the table, the serious people want big things to happen. Nerfing the ability for those big fights becoming a reality – not gonna happen. Sorry that’s business.

            June 25, 2014 at 01:59
          2. Mike Larry

            What you said doesn’t even make sense…. People don’t just blindly buy games, it’s not just mega nerds that don’t toss money out the window, and make smart purchases. The internet has been around for sometime my friend, and looking up a “lets plays” before spending money on a game is common practice for many.

            The truth is a really good argument can be made that those big fights do more harm long term to EVE rep, then good short term gains it gets for the one to three months afterwords. You keep dropping the word business as if you have a clue about the gaming business, but it clear you haven’t got one if you think an AP story trumps word of month from the gaming community.

            Games with no publisher, and little ad spending out sell, games from big publisher with ad campaign all the time. This happens because gaming community makes sure everyone knows when a game is bad, or when it is good. If a game looks bad, gamers talk about it. Perfect example is TMC does reviews on low budget steam games all the time, many which I have never heard of, and they are often great games. That is the gaming community at work, selling units through word of mouth. This happens a lot on many sites, across many language barriers and across many gaming community’s, weather you play EVE, Dota2, World of tanks, Call of Duty or fucking WoW, gamers talk about games with other gamers, doesn’t matter if they’re no-lifers, or casuals.

            June 25, 2014 at 04:14
          3. Javafanatic

            Because there is no such thing as a free trial? Big fights are sexy for marketing and they get people to take on free trials. Some stay and some go but the marketing cost is zero, the players made it happen with no additional investment by CCP because the players created that marketing content and created the buzz from major media outlets to pick that up.

            June 25, 2014 at 04:49
          4. Mike Larry

            Yes, but I’m saying it does more harm then good, because it is such bad publicity. Your only real argument you can make is that whole saying of “There is no bad publicity”, but in the gaming world, bad publicity is bad, because people talk so much, and troll the shit of it.

            Mock TS convo….

            Mike enters channel

            Mike: Hey, you guys hear about this EVE game? apparently there was like 2500 people in a fight.
            Doug: lol…. yeah I watch that shit on Twitch for like ten mins.
            Doug: The game runs at like 2 FPS, and the gfx look like shit on top of that.
            Mike: Really? 2 FPS? Why would anyone play a game @ 2 FPS?
            Doug: idk, stupidity? Here is a link – http://www.twitch.tv/nick_fuzzeh/b/498648315

            Ten mins later

            Mike: You’re right, it does look shit
            Doug: Told ya
            Steve: Oh hey Mike, What are you guys talking about?
            Mike: EVE
            Steve: Oh yeah, that game is shit, I looked that game about a month ago after someone told me about some big fight.

            All these guys troll EVE anytime it is ever brought up again, all because they have seen a TiDi fight.

            June 25, 2014 at 05:13
          5. Javafanatic

            And you’re characterizing one set of potential players. Good for you, do those blinders come in one color or do they offer can you order them in green or blue? Not everyone maintains the social circles you reference. I’m a guy who knew no one from Eve Online, I read about it said hey this looks like a challenge I’ll give it a shot on a trial basis. How many people will participate in that big sexy fight that gets all the free PR, not many at all, they happen so infrequently anyway. But you’re fucking high if you think CCP is going to do away with the ability to create those big fight environments. Never gonna happen lol. So keep circling that toilet bowl of denial.

            June 25, 2014 at 05:35
          6. Mike Larry

            I’m talking about convo’s I have happened to be in on the day of those big fights happened, they’re obviously not word for word, and I actually try to defend the game, but what I wrote is a pretty common convo. really. I am apart of a Dota2 community, a LoL community, a BF community, and a WoT community. EVE has been talked about in all of those communitys I have been in at one point, or another, and the avg. non-EVE player trolls the shit out of the game because they have seen TiDi fight. It’s pretty easy for me to see that potential new players, are discouraged from ever trying EVE, simply because there is such bad publicity around TiDi fight, lt’s easy to troll EVE when you can link a TiDi fight, real easy.

            Here’s the thing, if those fights were never recorded, large fights would be good publicity. CCP could sell the game with the illusion that it runs well with 2k plus people fight. But that is not reality, all those fights are recorded, and put on youtube, and twitch, and it’s pretty much the worst thing anyone could ever see about EVE. The fact that the worst thing anyone could ever see about EVE, also happens to be the most press EVE ever gets makes it awful publicity. Lets be real here…. even if you like TiDi fights, it’s ugly, and easy to troll, and it is trolled pretty much anytime it’s talked about on forums, or TS’s outside of the EVE community, mostly by people that don’t know any better, but that really doesn’t change the fact that it’s being trolled the fuck out of.

            As far as CCP changing EVE, I don’t think they can, and I never implied they can or would, which seems to be the only argument you can actually make, but you have to be running on a double digit IQ if you think big fights are actually helping EVE get more players. All it does is it grabs a bunch of casual gamers that switch MMOs every three months and often never join gaming communitys, or they would have heard of EVE before. Because as small as EVE is, and it is small, gamers know of the game, it’s made a name for itself, it’s just not a very good one sadly.

            June 25, 2014 at 06:08
  28. CarlGustav

    have you ever done a deployment op and seen the headake and logistic nightmare it takes for pure logistic movement. of say 100+ Carriers (transporters) with ships to a deployment zone

    I do like the concept but the idea will hurt logistics .. and those poor souls don’t deserve it.
    perhaps if there was a jump timer so you can’t jump/dock/jump/dock/jump/dock
    and move far in less then 5min

    I do like the thetering idea both of them allowing titans to drag ships with them is nice and would get more Titan kills p:

    Perhaps it would be fine if they added a new kind of JumpShipFreighter with a HUGE shipbay
    and allowed it to jump far then I approve since then we don’t hurt Logistic and hurt Power projection….

    After all we want the enemy to bring his ships to a place where he can attack from thus making the “Booring” part smaller and the “Fun” part larger … aka less hauling more fighting…..

    but we don’t want a big captial ship fleet to powerproject far.

    still i doubt nothing like this will ever happen ..

    Tethering Cynosural Field

    June 24, 2014 at 16:55 Reply
    1. Plukovnik

      “have you ever done a deployment op and seen the headake and logistic nightmare it takes for pure logistic movement. of say 100+ Carriers (transporters) with ships to a deployment zone”
      Yes I did it many times. And it was incredibly easy. Deployments to other side of space should be so difficult to manage that everyone would have to have a really big reason to do that. People should fight their neighbors to get more space or to get fights, rathen than blueing everyone in 50 jumps and seeking fights on other side of map.

      June 24, 2014 at 19:04 Reply
    2. Spurty

      You for real?

      The idea *IS* to hurt logistics

      Good lord

      June 25, 2014 at 11:24 Reply
    3. lol

      Setting up a few mids… yea definately rocket since. You must be in the retard coalition.

      June 25, 2014 at 17:11 Reply
  29. ActivePlayer

    Enormous power projection is just a symptom of broken game mechanics which brought us to point where 2 major powerblocks divided space and have no interest in real conflict. No 3rd party can enter the game, as it will always be steamrolled by these behemoths. There are basically two things that blocks forming of new independent spaceholders:
    1) Too much ISK cash accumulated by current entities
    2) Space ownership is guaranteed by power of ships on accounts which are not even paid (not subscribed)
    Ad 1) CCP should just divide all ISK cash by 100. Regular players would not be touched. Huge blocks would become regulard players.
    Ad 2) Make supercap characters payable only by real money, not by PLEX. In case of resubscribe after more than 2 months, player must pay at least 6 months subscription (real money, no PLEX). That would guarantee that idle players would not be able to deny access to sov aspect of game to active players – or if they did, it would cost them considerable (real) money. Remember SOLAR disbanding S2N renter alliance? Over 200 systems were flipped back by huge pack of resubbed supers. Bunch of players who did not pay for this game often for many months just ruined the effort of thousands active players just for the cost of one 30-day PLEX.

    June 24, 2014 at 18:58 Reply
    1. pick a name

      Why do people that do not know how plex work always talk about plex so much? Yes plex appear out of thin air you retard. Their account isn’t being paid…… How dare the be allowed to use the same pay method that anyone else in the game has the luxury of using, those bastards!

      Besides being so fucking stupid that you don’t understand how plex works, how could you ever enforce it, all anyone would have to do is have a highsec character on the same account……. let me guess they can’t use plex ether? lol…. You are perhaps the dumbest dude to comment on this page, and Dave from Razor has posted here.

      June 24, 2014 at 21:20 Reply
    2. Nullsec Overlord

      I have a better suggestion. Why doesnt CCP just deactivate all accounts of all players in major powerblocks? Problem’s solved. CCP can give them a free plex to encourage them to start a new account.

      June 24, 2014 at 23:03 Reply
      1. Barkaway

        Because thats just about as stupid as it gets, that would be suicide..

        June 25, 2014 at 00:08 Reply
        1. lol

          Dont feed the troll…

          June 25, 2014 at 17:09 Reply
    3. Ur Stupid

      “CCP should just divide all ISK cash by 100. Regular players would not be touched. Huge blocks would become regulard players.” Please explain to me how regular players would not be touched? What even defines a ‘regular player’?

      June 25, 2014 at 12:59 Reply
  30. moop

    Nerf tidi, being able to bring everyone from 20 regions to a fight because the fight system doesn’t move, game ruining.

    June 25, 2014 at 06:28 Reply
  31. Anon

    Create a cyno ship t1 can only use normal cyno t2 can use cov ops cyno, no other ships can use them.
    Titans bridge With the fleet, if titan is scrammed bridge fails noone goes

    June 25, 2014 at 10:12 Reply
    1. Anon

      blk ops/recons only can use covert cyno not standard

      June 25, 2014 at 12:29 Reply
      1. lol

        you sure about this? *mechanics* Good idea to do some research/ own a ship before you post this incorrect info.

        June 25, 2014 at 17:07 Reply
        1. anon

          was my suggestion not current game mechanics, sorry for confusion

          June 26, 2014 at 00:21 Reply
  32. SoCal Stoli

    I don’t think the problem is rooted in the jump/travel/mass/etc mechanics at all. It’s something else entirely.

    As an example using real life power projection with capital ships: How many major aircraft carriers has the US built? The USS Midway (CV 41) was in service all the way through the 1990’s, and we’re up to CV-78 with the Gerald R. Ford due next year.

    So…why doesn’t the US have thirty-seven carrier battle groups available to them now?

    Maintenance and infrastructure, that’s way. It would cost TRILLIONS of dollars a year, and more dock space than the entire world has available, to keep these ships in fighting condition.

    So rather than fiddle around with abstract mechanics, why not keep it simple? Assign a recurring maintenance cost (a charge directly paid in ISK would be easiest to implement, although some sort of material input would be more realistic) to each class of ship, scaling it exponentially upwards – and capital fighting ships should be as expensive to keep as they are to build. In this manner, it would soon become prohibitively expensive for any alliance to have too many capital ships, just as it is in real life.

    As far as infrastructure, you can make a nice tie-in with DUST and require each capital ship to have a maintenance facility on the surface of an owned planet, and if the maintenance facility is put out of commission/destroyed by a DUST-based strike force, its capital ship is immobilized until it is repaired/replaced. (Extending the “material input” thought about maintenance, rather than ISK, these facilities could be required to have X amount of different types of material, like PI factories, to be operational – with the cap ship immobilized if the facility is non-operational.)

    In one fell swoop, you’ve put realistic limits on the numbers of caps any alliance could keep running, and provided for a way that even a cap-less opponent can hit at an opponent’s capital ships, and giving a boost to the role of DUST bunnies as a nice side benefit.

    June 25, 2014 at 23:49 Reply
    1. Deifirtep

      Maintenance costs for a capital fleet would be an excellent idea. It would be possible to go further, to require maintenance fees for sub-caps barring their being mothballed: repackaged.

      Since Crius is making it clear workers get paid to work (increasing fees for R&D and Industry) then it would also make sense that the nameless crews of all the ships in New Eden should be paid as well.

      It would make for some very interesting changes.

      June 26, 2014 at 23:06 Reply
  33. Fred

    Caps and supercaps are fine the way they are. If not for the sov warfare function of supercarriers and the logistical role of the titans, the ships would be a complete waste of money as is. So now all the people who have been butthurt want to punish those who have been overly ambitious?

    June 26, 2014 at 22:45 Reply

Leave a Reply