Comments

Before I start wading headlong into the swamp — and trust me, over the next couple of weeks, I’m going to bury you guys in “EVE player behaves badly” stories — let’s talk about a positive. But even the positive stories on this topic have to start with an EVE player behaving badly… in this case, several of them. The positive aspect here has to do with CCP’s reaction. I’m going to be talking about CCP’s reactions to this stuff quite a lot where I think it bears.

The absolutely brilliant comedy Thank You for Smoking — and if you haven’t yet seen this film, fix that — has a funny phrase to talk about this: the “Yuppie Nuremberg defense.” This is, to wit: “I know what I did was wrong, but I did it to pay the mortgage.” As players of this game behave more and more badly, CCP’s GMs and Community Team are going to have to make difficult moral choices that would give an ethics student pause. And no matter how they choose, they’re likely to make someone mad. When an EVE player behaves badly, does their lack of a response to one of these situations drive off a customer? Or does their interference with the situation “interfere with the sandbox”?

These aren’t easy choices and I don’t envy the Community team the need to make them. Let’s talk about one where they made a tough — but, I think, the right — choice.

Most of us know about Jita scams, but they continue because they work: no matter how old any given scam is, a player out there falls for it. Yesterday in Jita, a self-described new player fell for one of the standard market manipulation scams based on the Margin Trading skill. These scams are almost as old as dirt but again, they continue because they work. In this case, the new player fell for it to the tune of a billion ISK. Again, this happened yesterday.

Go ahead and laugh. Get it out of your system.(1)

The victim bemoaned his fate in Jita local and started warning others about the scammer. Predictably — smelling blood in the water — several of those present started trolling the victim into the ground. So the chat log I linked above is mixed with dozens of other scammers plying their trade punctuated by this guy being laughed at by a half-dozen actual people. “I’m a new player, asshole,” he says to one of them. Seconds later, he receives “Welcome to eve, asshole” as a response. He himself is accused of being a scammer and making up the story, trying to play on the sympathy of the locals. Bounties get placed on him (“it’s a reward for being a twat”, he’s told). It goes on in this vein for quite a while: “look at captain white knight here”, “he thinks jita scams are real scams”, plus general laughter at the victim.

Finally, the victim says “i am going to go blow my brains out in my garage. bye everyone”. He’s told “dont miss”(!) (sic). He disconnects.

I take a moment here to briefly remind you: this is the community that you are part of.

The victim tells the story of what happened next on Reddit:

Hey guys, so I am writing to you right now because the police literally just woke me up (4:30 am here) asking if I play an online game called EVE and that CCP games actually contacted INTERPOL (I live in Canada- that’s x-country police work right there) who then contacted the RCMP who just dispatched two officers to my house because I said I “was going to blow my fucking brains out” in Local Chat at Jita because of a loss earlier. I imagine the follow up text (body disposal, cleanup) that another player and I were openly joking about made itself to the report however the officers were kind enough to only mention the fact I had said I want to end my own life in an online video game. The officers then asked me if I have a history of self-harm, and if I had any firearms in the house (no, to both) Lesson learned here? Watch what you fucking say in an online game! Even when you say something to somebody specifically, someone may take it out of context and get fucking INTERPOL involved. What kind of international suicide watch list did I unintentionally end up on?

That’s the CCP Community team making a hard, necessary, and correct choice. CCP VesnaPrishla states:

This falls under general policies of most MMOs and if it even helps prevent suicide of one person out of 100, its worth it. We are sorry if you had a bad experience regarding this and we hope you will understand the reasoning behind it.

Far from being angry, the guy replies:

If anything, I should thank you guys… If it had actually been a real case… You would have saved my life.

CCP Falcon adds:

We take all cases of this nature extremely seriously, and contact the appropriate authorities whenever a case like this arises.

We would far rather wake someone at 4:30am and make sure that they are okay, than hear that someone had harmed themselves and we hadn’t responded to either a cry for help, or a notification from a concerned member of the community that someone had expressed an interest in harming themselves.

And this is the correct choice. Moreover, it is the right one. The Yuppie Nuremberg defense is no defense at all when it comes to this kind of situation.

Now, thank Heaven this was not a real suicide threat and this player is OK. He was joking, CCP took it seriously, and that was the right choice. Another Redditor, a non CCP employee in a similar job, put it this way: “I’ll gladly take 20 pissed of players that rage at me afterwards if it means I can save 1 dude’s life.” Yes. I’m glad the Community team is willing to be proactive in this situation even if some of those on Reddit bring up the specter of Big Brother. It’s the right thing to do. So thank you to the CCP Community team for doing it!

But let’s also not forget how this started. More to come.

– Ripard Teg

105 Comments

  1. Jay

    CCP released personal information without permission regardless of the reason here in Canada that’s against the law. I would seek the advice of a lawyer and sue CCP into the ground. Maybe they should understand international laws before breaking them. CCP I would hire a great lawyer and suggest to your employees to refresh there resumes because they will be in need of a new job soon.
    The last ISP to do this was fined 20 million dollars and 1 million was awarded to the victim.

    March 13, 2014 at 17:31 Reply
    1. Daniel Lee

      CCP did a good thing, I bet you were one of the people who said “don’t miss”.

      March 13, 2014 at 17:34 Reply
      1. Empire dude

        Interpol should have also been sent too the Fucking spineless trolls house and gave them the kicking they deserve. Too many people think it’s big and Fucking clever to troll someone in this way without thinking of the consequences. Trolls can just eat shit and Fuck off back in there hole. Spineless cunts.

        March 13, 2014 at 18:01 Reply
        1. hoodaticus

          Traditionally, boys and men troll the fuck out of each other in real life to harden each other up. Whether this is healthy depends on whether the target rolls with the punches or gets butthurt and kills himself, but either way the species as a whole is improved.

          March 14, 2014 at 05:36 Reply
          1. Duder

            You are throwing down your own argument, you mentioned in “Real Life”. Sure, troll me in real life… keep at it, and I might just knock your lights out.

            But in a virtual world, that does not hold water. Because the “trollee” can not defend himself effectively when some bum hiding behind a screen does not let go. The defending part should come the rules and regulations of the game to discourage excessive “trolling”.

            Talking EVE, sure, get a good kill/gank, throw up the “good fights” , “smack talk it a little” and move on. If you keep rubbing it in the face of the player, then it’s when things get out of hand and you become a TRUE Reaver, enjoying the actual suffering of another player.

            TRUE Reavers, need to be taken out back and be “virtually” shot by CCP.

            March 14, 2014 at 21:59
          2. lol

            well played.

            March 18, 2014 at 20:13
      2. lol

        I agree they did a good thing, I also regret I wasn’t there to tell him to not miss, lets face it in this day and age of the internet if you open your mouth and cry about being stupid there are a lot of people willing to tell you just how stupid they think you are.

        And if that makes you kill yourself, well maybe you shouldn’t in a video game, maybe you should be seeing a shrink about your issues or a doctor for medication, but there is no way that losing a few months of internet space ship progress should be a valid reason to punch ones own ticket.

        March 13, 2014 at 19:58 Reply
        1. Distec

          Suicide is rarely done for “valid reasons”. That’s why these people need help and interventions in some cases. Duh. Obviously they shouldn’t be playing a game like EVE.

          Yet here we are; emotionally unstable people are online. It happens. And you act like that excuses shitty behavior towards them. That you say you regret not being there to taunt such a player is pretty unpleasant.

          I accept that the internet is a wilderness and you have to be careful what you get into. What irks me is how people such as yourself take zero accountability for their actions. Maybe that player should see a shrink. Do you think telling somebody to kill themselves is in any way productive or conducive to that? Furthermore, just because you recognize that these people can become targets doesn’t mean you need to enable it.

          hurr hurr HTFU

          March 15, 2014 at 17:50 Reply
          1. lol

            So by your logic I should be able to walk through a mine field safely because its the mines responsibility to not explode and kill me.

            March 18, 2014 at 20:12
    2. sad observer

      Sue them into the ground for responding to a potential suicide threat? You sir are the type of person I hope my kids never become or have to deal with.

      Bet you’re just wishing for your quick ticket to wealth without the effort of making it on your own. Phase Kresge your shit head comments to yourself.

      March 13, 2014 at 17:49 Reply
    3. Soldarius

      I wonder what Icelandic law would have to say about that?

      March 13, 2014 at 17:54 Reply
    4. David

      It’s standard policy, and I believe there’s an exception clause ccp uses somewhere.
      I know Blizzard has done the same thing with WoW players before, and I even heard an EQ player had a similar situation. Concern about physical harm trumps online privacy protection.

      If I recall correctly in fact, the MMO owner just releases the IP, its up to the police to follow-up to get an address or name from that.

      March 13, 2014 at 17:56 Reply
    5. Boo

      Are you the kind of person who would “sue into the ground” the guy who
      saved your life because you could get some money off it ? You are
      disgusting.

      Also, I’m no lawyer, nor Canadian, but I believe that use of digital information in Canada is regulated under the Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act, which allows the disclosing of personnal information in case of emergency.

      PIPEDA, Division 1 :
      (3) For the purpose of clause 4.3 of Schedule 1, and despite the note
      that accompanies that clause, an organization may disclose personal
      information without the knowledge or consent of the individual only if
      the disclosure is

      (e) made to a person who needs the information because of an
      emergency that threatens the life, health or security of an individual
      and, if the individual whom the information is about is alive, the
      organization informs that individual in writing without delay of the
      disclosure;

      March 13, 2014 at 18:01 Reply
      1. David

        And on top of that by agreeing to the EULA he has officially already given consent for the information to be released, as below. A lawsuit wouldn’t work.

        March 13, 2014 at 18:05 Reply
        1. canuck

          An EULA cannot trump an act of law (at least in Canada) so the act would have precedence and a lawsuit would definitely work. Again in Canada you cannot agree to sign certain rights away. I am not certain if this has actually been tested in court but that is my understanding of the way it should work.

          March 13, 2014 at 19:14 Reply
          1. lol

            Did you not read the quote above you showing the actual law???

            “an organization may disclose personal information without the knowledge or consent of the individual only if the disclosure is”…. “made to a person who needs the information because of an emergency that threatens the life, health or security of an individual”

            “emergency that threatens the life, health or security of an individual” + “made to a person who needs the information” = He threatened to kill himself and they called the cops.

            They followed the law to the letter, so good luck suing them over law A when they only broke law A to follow law B.

            Also suicide is not legal in any country so trying to kill yourself is illegal, So on that note you are trying to sue a company for telling the cops that you wanted to illegally end your life, lol good luck with that one in court.

            March 13, 2014 at 19:53
          2. think before you post.

            No it can’t but you can agree to circumvent the law in the EULA,

            “EULA, Section 7C, Security and Disclosure of User Data:
            CCP
            may (and you hereby expressly authorize CCP to) disclose information
            about you to private entities, law enforcement or other government
            officials, as CCP, in its sole discretion, deems necessary or
            appropriate to investigate or resolve possible crimes or to respond to
            judicial, regulatory, agency or similar inquiries.”

            Maybe, just maybe you should actually “read” the EULA before you tell us all how much you know about how it works and what is illegal.

            March 13, 2014 at 19:55
          3. David

            Since by agreeing to the EULA you are expressly giving CCP permission to release this information to relevant authorities at CCP’s discretion, CCP has not given this information out without your permission. You gave them your permission when you signed the EULA. Ergo, they have not released information without your permission, ergo, no law has been broken.

            If someone was going to try to argue that for some reason the contract they signed with CCP (that is what you’re doing when you agree to an EULA) should not be binding, and they didn’t want CCP to have permission to release this information, it would STILL be legal for CCP to release that information under the exception clause is PIPEDA. So in order for someone to successfully sue, they would need to get a judge to void the EULA contract AND overthrow the law (I’m an American so not sure if you guys have “unconstitutional” judgements up there). Regardless, good luck getting EITHER of those to happen, much less both.

            March 13, 2014 at 21:02
      2. Gorakhal

        thats pretty common around the world

        March 13, 2014 at 18:46 Reply
      3. lol

        Thanks for Googling and posting that so I didn’t have to.

        March 13, 2014 at 19:43 Reply
    6. jb1060

      “Good Samaritan Law” brosef.

      March 13, 2014 at 18:21 Reply
      1. Lee Thrace

        good samaritan laws apply to liability in cases of negligence you fucking retard.

        March 13, 2014 at 18:51 Reply
        1. Anhenka

          An example of legal protection without obligation to act: in common-law areas of Canada a good Samaritan doctrine is a legal principle
          that prevents a rescuer who has voluntarily helped a victim in distress
          from being successfully sued for ‘wrongdoing’. Its purpose is to keep
          people from being reluctant to help a stranger in need for fear of legal
          repercussions should they make some mistake in treatment.[3]

          I would say getting someone to go check if someone who stared they were going to go commit suicide falls well under a stature similar to this.

          Yes I realize that this is a Canadian Law. Many other countries have similar laws, and they would almost certainly be successfully argued to apply even in a non physical situation like the current topic of discussion.

          Edit: Remove that massive stick from your ass.

          March 13, 2014 at 18:56 Reply
          1. Lee Thrace

            Nope

            March 13, 2014 at 19:03
        2. lol

          “liability in cases of negligence” Such as being negligent and failing to report the intention for fatal self-harm to the proper authorities as required by law?

          March 13, 2014 at 19:42 Reply
    7. jb1060

      “Refresh ***their*** resumes”

      March 13, 2014 at 18:24 Reply
    8. Bla

      Can you give us your details so we know not to help you. Thanks in advance.

      March 13, 2014 at 19:33 Reply
    9. Lawyer = Ballcrab

      I’m a Lawyer — woot woot woot, ding ding ding,,, honk honk honk. Lawyer senses are tingling.

      March 13, 2014 at 19:39 Reply
    10. lol

      There are also laws that say if a company knows, or believes you will harm yourself due to an interaction with their product they are required to report that fact to the authorities or faces huge fines for not doing so So good luck with your lawsuit assuming there’s a lawyer willing to get paid to look like an idiot while losing.

      March 13, 2014 at 19:40 Reply
    11. Dekkar

      Are you serious?? We just passed a cyber bully law because of what happened with Amanda Todd and Rehtaeh Parsons. There was also a huge investigation into how police handled the cases, anonymous outed one of the scum responsible. You really think any lawyer in our country would waste their time even thinking about helping you with your delusion of making money from something like this???

      March 14, 2014 at 03:41 Reply
    12. hoodaticus

      Canada is a common law country and as such has the defense of “privilege of necessity”. Which means you can commit civil wrongs to save a life (or property) from catastrophe and you are only liable for actual damages that you cause. Here there is no damage, so the defense would be total.

      March 14, 2014 at 05:30 Reply
  2. wow

    A permanent solution to the permanent problem OF BEING A DUMB FAGOL

    March 13, 2014 at 17:44 Reply
  3. LJ

    Scamming is one thing, but rubbing someones face into being scammed, and harrassing them’s another.

    March 13, 2014 at 17:52 Reply
  4. Kinis Deren

    I trust those that responded in Jita local with inappropriate language are now enjoying their temp bans.

    Yup, good job CCP. A real life is far more precious than internet pixels and far better to exercise caution than regret inaction for many years to come.

    March 13, 2014 at 17:55 Reply
    1. Poetic Stanziel

      Saying you’re going to kill yourself in game chat is as reprehensible as egging someone to do it. Both are nutbar behaviours. The dude who said he was going to kill himself should have been given a ban.

      March 13, 2014 at 19:42 Reply
      1. Budge

        Whats your take on someone making a PowerPoint presentation on how someone they were going kill themselves, and how everyone presently watch said PowerPoint presentation should encourage him to do so.

        The only reason CCP is making a big dead about this is because you know who is a pile of shit, and made EVE look bad(to be fair CCP has let piles of shit do whatever they wanted for years).

        March 13, 2014 at 19:57 Reply
      2. Kinis Deren

        I don’t agree – a player saying that in any game certainly needs help. That help might be simply to not take a game too seriously right through to a call by the local police to prevent self harm. The issue here is that no one is qualified to determine if the intent is real or not.

        March 13, 2014 at 21:33 Reply
  5. Billbo

    Permanent solution is minamize fucking Jita local. Other than that stop having “downs”

    March 13, 2014 at 17:56 Reply
    1. Jason

      Anytime I go in there I just take a min to block anyone linking contracts, or telling me they will double my money. Anything that is too good to be true, probably is.

      March 13, 2014 at 19:52 Reply
  6. Voren

    I give it one week before some troll uses this community response to get attention.

    March 13, 2014 at 18:14 Reply
  7. Lee Thrace

    CCP is not as insulated as they think. The video game industry has benefited from a lack of motivated litigants. One day that will change, and everyone will be surprised.

    March 13, 2014 at 18:45 Reply
  8. BS

    If I would ever decide to kill myself I would be fucking pissed if someone came to “help”. My life is my own and nobodys else. Then again I propably wouldn’t brag abut it in Jita local if I were serious…

    March 13, 2014 at 18:54 Reply
    1. Messiah Complex

      Please don’t kill yourself. I selfishly want you to live.

      March 13, 2014 at 20:29 Reply
  9. Neutral Noob

    IMHO, the margin trading scam is an exploit permitted by a broken feature.

    I’ve never seen it myself, so I’m not just “butthurt”. I like that Eve is adversarial, and no one holds your hand. Though I dislike (despise, really) scammers, in Eve and In RL, I don’t want “honest” scamming nerfed. Nevertheless, the margin trading scam seems like a real flaw in the game.

    AFAIK, I’ve only been scammed once, years ago, when someone contracted me a Raven and called it a CNR, and I fell for it. I have since learned a) never trust anyone advertising anything in local, and b) there’s no reason to ever go to Jita anyway. Much later, I learned I didn’t want a CNR anyway – or a Raven at all, for that matter.

    Anyway, margin scamming delenda est. Apart from whatever technical difficulty there might be in removing it, I can’t see any legitimate gameplay reason why CCP should permit it to continue – and I’ve read a million unconvincing opinions in defense of it. It’s based on deceptive UI. That’s a flaw in the game.

    March 13, 2014 at 19:17 Reply
    1. Nobody

      What changes would you recommend to get rid of it?

      I have no idea how it’s even possible to get rid of it short of getting rid of the Margin Trading skill or minimum order quantities, both which have legitimate and important functions. Maybe I’m missing something and there is a solution, but I don’t think there is. For that matter, it could still be done without minimum orders if they just link contracts. As long as there’s Margin Trading there will be margin trading scams. But Margin Trading is a real vital and important skill to many traders.

      March 13, 2014 at 19:42 Reply
      1. Neutral Noob

        I could make suggestions but, whatever, I think the first thing is to establish consensus that it needs changing. I don’t want to get into a debate about details that buries the generalities.

        March 13, 2014 at 20:01 Reply
  10. Neutral Noob

    I don’t know how unique Eve is in this respect, but omfg, New Eden is chock full of childish middle aged antisocial swine. People should have enough self respect to be able to respect others, in games and real life alike. In fact, I think that should be especially true in games, as opposed to RL where someone might be faced with real moral hazards & dilemmas.

    I do not believe at all the notion that these emotionally retarded vulgarians are actually “nice people in real life” and that their verbal abusiveness and unchivalrous behavior is “all in fun”, despite their claims; I mean, no one hardly ever thinks they’re the bad guy. I bet, as with intelligence, probably 80% of people think they are morally “above average”. I bet that rate is even higher in prisons and Wall Street. It’s the decline of Western civilization, I tell ya.

    To I hope the majority of readers, I say, badly paraphrasing the American bard: Always do the right thing; it will gratify half the public, and astonish the others. More importantly, do it out of self respect. Further; do not abide rudeness and dishonesty; all it takes, to quote another dead old white guy, for evil to flourish, is for good people to do nothing.

    Probably the knuckle dragging mouth breathers will now discuss my sexual orientation and diagnose me as having Down Syndrome, etc., which should nicely demonstrate my point. Fuck those fuckers, eh?

    March 13, 2014 at 19:40 Reply
    1. Poetic Stanziel

      “New Eden is chock full of childish middle aged antisocial swine.”

      So is Azeroth. EVE Online does not have a unique community. Vocal, shit-talking, terrible people exist in every MMO community.

      March 13, 2014 at 19:46 Reply
      1. Neutral Noob

        Oh, I know; that was a rhetorical point. Eve is only “worse” in the sense that jerks have more opportunity to jerk here without interference from moderators – Which I am not asking for, btw.

        March 13, 2014 at 20:06 Reply
  11. Poetic Stanziel

    You missed the most important part of this article:

    Go ahead and laugh. Get it out of your system.(1)

    The (1) in the original article reads “But you are a bad person.”

    Laugh at someone who has been scammed, and Ripard feels you’re terrible for doing so.

    Fuck you, Ripard.

    March 13, 2014 at 19:41 Reply
    1. Neutral Noob

      Sign me up, I think it’s terrible too. Really terrible, as in, you were raised all wrong and society suffers for it.

      At long last, have you no shame?

      March 13, 2014 at 19:43 Reply
      1. Poetic Stanziel

        You should kill yourself.

        March 13, 2014 at 19:47 Reply
        1. lulz

          You should probably kill yourself if you still visit EVE sites when if quit months ago.

          March 13, 2014 at 19:49 Reply
          1. Poetic Stanziel

            I play EVE, jackass. I’m in BNI.

            March 13, 2014 at 20:13
          2. BNI

            If you are, don’t expect to be for very long, although I call bullshit

            March 13, 2014 at 20:37
          3. GFY

            Rofl, youre such a failure. You fail at even quitting.

            March 13, 2014 at 20:38
          4. Harmless Fuzzy

            At least it appears he purged himself of his massive, raging EVE Uni hard on. Be thankful for the little things….

            March 13, 2014 at 21:55
          5. Sair

            What happened to quitting eve because it was doomed to fail because people were not aloud to impersonate other people for the purpose of scamming?

            March 13, 2014 at 21:07
          6. Neutral Noob

            Way to “stay classy”, then. “Jackass”.

            March 13, 2014 at 21:32
          7. Poetic? Cunt more like.

            You’re also a total cockend.

            March 14, 2014 at 14:18
          8. Distec

            Please leave it.

            March 15, 2014 at 16:23
        2. Neutral Noob

          I bet your mom is proud of you.

          March 13, 2014 at 19:58 Reply
    2. guest

      I’m unironically impressed you managed to not ragequit long enough to write these comments. Ought to have been some serious effort.

      March 13, 2014 at 21:41 Reply
    3. Harmless Fuzzy

      Attention whores can’t stop whoring…..

      March 13, 2014 at 21:51 Reply
    4. Poetic Stanziel

      “Dur Dur Frur Dur Dee Dur DooBee Dur Dur. Flee Bee Goo Nuu Gee Bur Dur Dur. DUUUURRRR BAGH DUU DOO DURRR DUH DUR DUH DUR.”

      March 13, 2014 at 22:00 Reply
      1. Neutral Noob

        “Dur Dur Frur Dur…”

        Oh! Well put, sir. We’re all just a little better for your contribution.

        March 14, 2014 at 02:48 Reply
    5. Lee Thrace

      People who “tear farm” or relish in the pain of others are bad people you stupid piece of shit.

      March 14, 2014 at 02:25 Reply
  12. Budge

    This is pretty much all because Mittani made a PowerPoint presentation making fun of some dude that said he was going to kill himself, and asked other to encourage him to kill himself. Now CCP has to be hypersensitive about such things because of said presentation.

    March 13, 2014 at 20:02 Reply
    1. Neutral Noob

      I think you give CCP too little credit, and Mittens too much.

      March 13, 2014 at 20:09 Reply
      1. Budge

        How is calling Mittani out for being a piece of shit giving him to much credit? The guy actually made a PowerPoint presentation about a guy saying he was going to kill himself for laughs, and he got laughs from most people watching the presentation(including CCP employees), it only became a issue when press started writing about how big of a piece of shit the Mittani was.

        What do you honestly think…. That nobody at CPP looked over what was being presented by Mittani before he presented it? It was fine until it got bad press, then it was disgusting, but CCP didn’t think it was disgusting until it was point out to them later.

        March 13, 2014 at 21:01 Reply
        1. Neutral Noob

          OK I retract it. Cuz, I don’t know anything about it except from blogs. And also cuz TBH I don’t actually care, cuz AFAICT it wasn’t a serious effort to get someone killed, just another case of (albeit severe) obnoxious internet asshattery.

          I said it cuz I just generally think people generally give Mittens too much credit in general, on both sides. But I could be wrong about that too, maybe “Alex” is really a Dick Cheeney alt lol. But if he really wanted to maximize harm in this world, he wouldn’t have quit his day job.

          March 13, 2014 at 21:30 Reply
          1. Anonymouse

            The issue wasn’t the presentation, the issue was that in after comments he specifically gave the character’s name and told people to go bug him. The original presentation kept the person anonymous

            March 13, 2014 at 23:11
        2. Noisrevbus

          It’s understandable how CCP reacted, the whole thing risked turning into a PR-disaster to which they had to act and be seen to act forcefully. The whole ‘appearances’ thing aside though: I think it’s important not to make a hen out of a feather either. Any somewhat reasonable adult understands that the ingame reaction of the player in question was inappropriate and that has it’s comical qualities. That’s also what Mittens was playing on in his presentation. Then you add in some alcohol, getting caught up in the moment, superficial interpretations (or errenous presumtive overanalysis) and people’s general overzealous willingless to stoop to political correctness and you have that soup.

          I genuinly feel for the guy losing bits and pieces in his IRL, and I can sympathize, but he decided to take that out in/on a game and that reaction does have some comical value to it. It still does. It was never about shaming the dude for his associated loss and all about poking fun at the reaction. I really don’t see why people like you sit here years later and toot that horn. As I said initially, any somewhat reasonable adult would understand both intent and reaction, like it or not. Why toot about it and try to make it be more than what it was? I find it quite liberating that there are games like EVE where people can overreact and we can make fun of the reactions. What’s next? ‘Leave Grath alone’ campaigns?

          March 14, 2014 at 04:13 Reply
          1. That was stupid

            Not sure why people still don’t even understand what he did wrong.

            The fact that he made a powerpoint presentation about the guy isn’t the problem, it’s that he named him, and encouraged others to get him to kill himself. That is a big deal, and it was very bad for EVE image. Also bringing up alcohol is fucking stupid, he’s a grown man. ‘I was drunk’ is no excuse at all. You are always liable for your actions regardless of if you have been drinking or not.

            March 14, 2014 at 07:14
  13. Nobody

    I’m not one of those people who think it’s “fun” to be a d-bag. I wouldn’t have been “one of those people,” not because I think it was sooo horrible, but just because I have no desire to. At the same time, anyone who would actually kill themselves because they got scammed in a video game (which I doubt would even happen) isn’t long for this world anyway.

    I would feel totally comfortable making a 100% assumption that anyone who says they’re gonna kill themselves in EVE is not serious. Even in the one-in-a-million chance that they do, although it’s still sad, I would have written them off as doomed anyway. Even if someone could have intervened (which is also an unrealistic premise to start with since, at least in this case, the cops showed up many hours later), anyone who can’t handle EVE to the point where they want to kill themselves is not going to survive even a mild dose of reality where there’s no “log off” button, you can’t make a new character, your skills don’t train when you’re sleeping, it’s much harder to get money, and nobody gives you a free rookie spaceship.

    Now that this story is out, I bet people start either making lots of suicidal claims or, more likely yet, people will report it every time they see one even if it’s in the most jocular nature just to make trouble. Maybe CCP will have to change this policy to deal with the inevitable deluge. Don’t get me wrong, I think it’s well intentioned, but I am confident it’s never going to actually help anyone and will instead just make trouble and waste time. Just because you’re heart is in the right place doesn’t necessarily mean you doing anyone any good.

    March 13, 2014 at 20:43 Reply
    1. Dekkar

      What about the guy that was harassed by mittens and his crew and that mittens during his Evefest speech called on all players to harass until he followed through with suicide? Think that’s not real? Many teens and socially awkward people turn to mmo’a the way an alcoholic turns to the bottle. So when that world turns on them I bet it can be more hurtful to them then the real world is. Here is a bunch of other net geeks who should have similar views to you, since after all you all choose to be in the same community. Turning on you and encouraging you to take your own life. I recommend you watch a movie called “Pump up the volume”.

      As per your suspicion that many people will abuse this and claim intent to self harm. Let them, if they are that short sighted they deserve what they will reap from it. Their name will end up in thier nations data base as potentially mentally unstable. From there it likely will cause them to be turned down for firearms licenses, military careers, police careers and who knows what else.

      March 14, 2014 at 03:09 Reply
      1. Saint

        The example you choose is a good one but its fortunately a relatively isloated one that changed Eve for the better. That day, Mittens let himself down and he absolutely and unreservedly apologized once he had sobered up and was hugely embarassed by his own statements.

        The fact is that whether or not you like the RP side of Eve, we’re all playing roles. Some guys want to play the bad guys and that’s part of the magic of Eve. Acceptance and finding the right group of people to play Eve with you is probably the most important part of the early game experience, but the guy getting scammed in the article, clearly deserved it – He was greedy and was throwing PLEX at the game and didn’t go into things with his eyes open. There are thousands of articles and explanations of what the Eve culture allows and not doing your research presents yourself as a victim.

        March 14, 2014 at 12:49 Reply
  14. NRDS

    Jester, I want to ask you a question about your “World without sin” article.
    I am an NRDS player, I can PVP and I do so both in small gang roams and large fleet fights.
    Obviously I only shoot people who are red.
    The thing is that I dislike shooting people who are mining or ratting or basically are not looking to PVP themselves, even if they are red.
    I also never scam and have never gotten scammed myself.
    So my question is: where do the die hard NRDSers fit into your reaver theory?
    We have far from succumbed to the reavers but are not victims to them either.

    March 13, 2014 at 21:14 Reply
    1. Puchoco_Voluspa

      I will gladly shoot miners/ratters/haulers/explorers when they are KOS.

      I will never scam anyone.

      I troll heavily, mostly blues.

      I am a Provi duder.

      March 14, 2014 at 12:38 Reply
      1. Union

        But what’s sad is how easy someone can end up being on your KOS and not realize it…

        March 14, 2014 at 20:15 Reply
        1. Providweller

          The main reason people get set KOS, is because they shot blues/neutrals in Provi space. Pilots know when they’re bad, so ending in the KOS list is not unexpected.

          The less obvious part is stealing sites (Relic, DED, etc). But with some communication to the residents, I’ve seen issues being stopped before they escalated. Always check, if someone else is already there, then just turn around and find another one.

          March 14, 2014 at 21:38 Reply
          1. Union

            So explain to me the ‘blanket punishment’ that you give entire alliances when only “1” guy goofs up and does something stupid or dickish in your space?

            March 14, 2014 at 21:52
          2. theguest

            You make it sound asif being KOS is something that you cannot change.
            If you think you were unrightfully KOSsed or simply wish to be given another chance at being friendly/neutral in Provi, there is nothing stopping you from contacting a CVA diplo and working something out.
            They really are not as unreasonable as people make them out to be.

            March 15, 2014 at 01:43
  15. I love the internet

    While I don’t much care about scamming and
    I ignore the jerks completely…. I do admire the power and right the little
    pricks seem to think they have hidden behind their screens.

    I would love for there to be a random draw
    to obtain an address from time to time… just one at a time… of one of these
    guys who thinks insulting and discriminating others on the net is great because
    it is the only way not to end up with a bloody nose… and I would then visit him
    to see how he man’s up in the real world….

    Internet is an amazing tool abused too much
    by a bunch of dicks….

    March 13, 2014 at 21:19 Reply
    1. Ciaphas Cyne

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuBWbpTJRqk

      you could just go to fanfest, tough guy.

      March 14, 2014 at 07:54 Reply
      1. question

        I have not yet had the chance to go to fanfest. My question would be… Do the people who freely insult and discriminate others in Jita local or around the internet attend fanfest? And if they do, are they as brave (ie calling other f**king retards or n**gers the moment they do not agree with there POV? Or is it , as stated above, only when hiding behind a screen that these people feel strong enough to use such words?

        March 14, 2014 at 08:27 Reply
        1. Ciaphas Cyne

          no clue! some people are terrible in all spaces. just be clear to distinguish between scammers (who are just having fun) and trolls (who are assholes in local chat)

          March 14, 2014 at 11:04 Reply
        2. Provi Miner

          sure his name is mittens you will find him there. Lets see I have seen him tell his player base to go “jew” I have seen him tell his player base to harrass someone into killing themsleves. So your answer is yes, glad to help 🙂

          March 14, 2014 at 15:47 Reply
          1. Ciaphas Cyne

            thats rather disheartening. idc about the suicide thing but the ‘jew’ thing is def not classy. i wonder how npr would react to the knowledge that eves slang is littered with such phrases? think mittens would get some harder questions?

            March 15, 2014 at 03:34
  16. Ciaphas Cyne

    posting in a stealth “margin-scam” tear thread. how much did you lose, ripard?

    March 14, 2014 at 07:53 Reply
  17. Johnno

    CCP -> +1 because you actually do care about your memberbase. This article made me feel proud as a eveplayer.

    March 14, 2014 at 09:11 Reply
    1. Fartolio

      Actually what they did care about was their image. But whatever…

      March 14, 2014 at 11:18 Reply
      1. MrSeb

        Don’t be so negative. Is it so hard to believe that this was done out of concern?
        Thumbs up for CCP on this one.

        March 14, 2014 at 18:34 Reply
        1. Fisherking

          No, let’s go ahead and be negative. CCP did what they did, because in the EU, *they legally have to*. Look it up.

          March 17, 2014 at 22:57 Reply
  18. NotYetBitterVet

    And on a related note: that’s why this game needs “Credit Score” — the security status equivalent for the market traders. ; )

    March 14, 2014 at 09:16 Reply
    1. Ciaphas Cyne

      genius

      March 14, 2014 at 11:05 Reply
  19. Provi Unicorn Riding Carebear

    Another interesting article. Thanks Ripard.

    March 14, 2014 at 11:11 Reply
  20. Provi Miner

    And where was this outrage when mittens told people on a live feed to help force a guy to suicide? Oh thats right you didn’t get self rightous till just last week, when the raven and the follow up scam happened. Just a quick refresher: you had nothing to say about the poor scammed individuals written threats did you?

    March 14, 2014 at 12:39 Reply
  21. ROFL

    IM GOING TO … Fuck around in jita and get 5-0 on me; FUCK YEEEEEE … Interwebzzzz spacepolice.

    March 14, 2014 at 15:35 Reply
  22. EVE is what you make it.

    Quite a good article. Sets Things into perspective when a person is flaming another just to promote himself. This might be a rare situation, but i think we all know pal’s in EVE that have commented the rough nerd language and its evil ego boosting several times, yes?

    March 14, 2014 at 18:54 Reply
  23. Provi Miner

    I am not your keeper, and yes the saying sticks and stones will break my bones but names will never hurt me is mostly true. Being mean someone is generally pointless in eve tbh. You can’t have a fight without someone posting “you meanie” even if that someone is you. If you are not right in the head I do not know this, I am not responsible for “YOUR” actions. If I say something that upsets so what deal with it. If you have anger issues thats your problem till you make it mine then it will be settled. If you say something rude to me, troll me, or in any other way attack me through a computer screen I understand fully that you can not hurt me, and if I don’t like your comments? I can block you or go play in the park for a few hours. People that are hurt emotionally by what others say on a computer screen need more than for people to be nice via the screen. At the end of the day you know where you are, you know what you are doing, and you accept that and own responsibility for it. If you undock you could be shot (you know that), if you post something dumb in local people will troll you (you know that), if you get scammed you know only one person to blame and that is the person who hit enter. Recently a ganked pilot who also got scammed threatend to go after people in real life. Now consider the level of risk? person A who says they are to self harm and person B who threatens to go after people in real life. Which item should be at the top of “mmmm lets do something” list.

    March 15, 2014 at 14:52 Reply
  24. Janix Auscent

    Good article Ripard. Looking forward to seeing more of your writing.

    March 16, 2014 at 00:05 Reply
  25. FisherKing

    Yeah, a *huge* comparative percentage of Eve’s players are complete dickwads. CCP’s policies attract and retain them, instead of being shunned and banned like in other MMOGs.

    It’s part of why I enjoy the game; I’ve got white-knight syndrome and I LOVE a) not being that guy
    b) avoiding that guy while he wastes time trying to ruin my day
    and c) occasionally killing that guy while he’s trying to ruin MY day.
    Eve players are THE best villains in any video game on the market, hands-down.

    That said, yes, OF COURSE keeping these creeps around costs CCP potential players. Why do you think such a technically advanced and great game boasts like 1/30 the subscriber base of that pile of drek, Wow?

    March 17, 2014 at 22:55 Reply
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