I don’t really want to write anything about the battle at B-R5BR. There are more than enough bloggers and journalists writing about that event. I know a few people who fought in it. A couple were even on the winning side. And they had some interesting comments about it. But it’s nothing that others haven’t said already. So the biggest battle in EVE Online is history as far as I’m concerned. But it’s affects on the game are far from over.

I’ve posted before about the increase in brand recognition CCP is getting from this event. Today I was actually stopped at work and asked by one of my co-workers, “Hey, were you involved in that big battle in that game you play?” He’d heard a story on Oregon Public Broadcasting about it. Yeah, it’s filtered that far down into the mainstream media. And CCP is still riding a crest of new subscriptions it seems. Last Sunday when I played, same time as always, there were 54,000+ users online. That’s up over 5000 users from the numbers I saw before B-R. The Google Trend line is also still climbing. The only decrease from what I’ve wrote about before is new account creation reported by EVE Offline. That’s noticeable down, but the daily average is still higher than it was before B-R.

The battle itself, and the influx of new accounts, have lead CCP to do a few things right away to “enhance” the game. They have put a 50 drone cap on drone assignments to other players. Before there was effectively no cap. That was one of the reasons lag was so bad in the systems where these large fights occurred. Here’s how it worked. Hundreds of pilots would show up laden with sentry drones. They’d launch them and then assign their drones to one guy, usually the Fleet Commander, who would then fight the battle. One guy throwing thousands of drones at individual targets evidently causes the servers to go into computational convulsions. I’ll spare you the details. But that isn’t the only thing CCP has done. This (hover over link for description if you don’t want to click) was pinned to the log in screen for like two weeks, and stayed at the top while at least two other items were placed below it. But not before this news item followed it. To me this is an indication CCP is serious about trying to retain these new accounts. I certainly don’t blame them.

In fact, I encourage them to take it as far as is necessary to keep the new blood in EVE Online. As much as I’d like to think otherwise, I am not the future of this game. You could call me a bitter vet at this point, but I probably won’t be spending time this year coming up with the next great caper. And no one who has played as long as I have is likely to be the future of EVE Online, not even The Mittani. He might even retire considering all the interviews he’s done. The urge for him to go out while on top must be really, really strong. That leaves the future of EVE Online up to these new players. If EVE Online is to make it through the next decade, CCP needs to not only attract them, but more importantly keep them. And in my opinion, B-R5BR may be great for attracting new blood, but’s it’s probably detrimental to keeping them long term.

Here’s how I see it going down. What do you think happens when a new player, who signed up for EVE Online because they too want a $3000 Internet spaceship, finds out it will not only take months and months, but they have to “know the right people” and “earn the privilege?” That they can’t just go to Jita and buy one? That’s right, they never convert their free account to a paid account. That issue isn’t even a learning curve issue. It’s more like a dafuq issue.

I believe CCP understands this. So what’s a company who desperately wants new players to do? Well, you make certain those new players are encouraged to stick around by offering them fun things to do without getting owned by a more experienced player. This environment needs to be high-sec, because that’s where most of them will play. At least that’s what CCP should be doing. Unfortunately they keep trying to lure these new players into other regions of space where there is more excitement. But I think my favorite bartender, Shatteredhip Fejardo, who I talked into playing EVE Online last summer, summed up the failure of that strategy pretty well last week. Last week I asked him what he’d been doing in the game. Here’s a good summation of the conversation.

“What’ve you been up to? Have you done anything exciting?”

“Not really. I want to train up first. I don’t want to be owned the first time I venture out. I mean, all those players who have played for years have such a big advantage. Not to mention I can’t really afford to lose the ISK.”

“What about the 100 million ISK I sent you?”

“I need that for the skill books.”

That’s the dafuq issue in action. And that “advantage” sentiment is very real. He’s not the first noob I’ve heard talk about it. It’s how most new players see games as working, including EVE Online. The only good news in this is that he still has an account and is paying for it. Most people wouldn’t bother to spend real money on a game they felt they couldn’t play until they “trained up.” That’s a HUGE problem, as we all should know. And it doesn’t matter the truth is more like having skill points to sit in a ship doesn’t mean you know how to fly it. The perception is that skill points matter, and perception is everything when it comes to retaining new players. EVE Online has a terrible perception problem. The game is going to have to change if EVE Online is to ever thrive again.

So in this post B-R5BR world, CCP still struggles to keep this fresh blood playing. They are not going to do that by solving TiDi. All that does is increase the chance of another mainstream media event. But we know how the media is. Today’s headlines are tomorrow’s litter box lining. The next event will have to be even bigger, and I’m not certain that will ever happen. Already two thirds of null-sec is owned by the same coalition. If anything bigger than B-R ever does happen again, it likely will not be for some time. I can almost guarantee it will take longer to happen than for all this new blood to become disenchanted with the hardest MMO in the world. This big event-disenchantment cycle is like being on life support. The ventilator will keep the body alive, but if the brain is dead what’s the point?

What I hope CCP will do is consider revamping current high-sec content. I am getting pretty damned bored running the same level IV security missions over and over again. The lower level missions are no better. They haven’t changed in the nearly six years I’ve played. Dafuq? One thing I’d heartily welcome is if CCP figured out a way to make missions that were procedurally generated. It would be grand if no two missions would ever be completely the same. What about a procedural generator that randomly determines what faction you fight, how many gates will need activated, how many ships per gate (waves too?) and what ship mix would be encountered. Wouldn’t that be a great improvement? It certainly would keep me on the edge of my chair more. These missions would be scaled to the skill points of the player and never the same. What about throwing in lottery loot drops? Why do we have to go all the way to null-sec to get good loot? I’m not advocating CCP become the loot fairies. I am advocating CCP give new players a reason to log in, and what would be better than dynamic missions with a substantial chance for a really cool armor repairer?

Then there’s the other high-sec noob activity: mining. Anything that would make mining less tedious, and therefore less boring, would be a huge plus. In that regard, I could see a little NASA/KSP coming into the equation. Not all the physics stuff , but what about asteroid capture and return? Forget pecking away forever at a ‘roid with lasers. Throw a “net” around that hunk of pure profit and haul the whole thing in for a hefty chunk of change all at once. Make laser (precision) mining an endeavor necessary for high end minerals, but take the tedium out of mining in Empire space. Who wants all those errant chunks of asteroid fouling the space lanes anyway? I am certain CONCORD would approve of taking the whole ‘roid to a central processing center. The whole endeavor should take less time and get more ISK into noob pockets faster.

And while you’re working on making life easier for new players, stop the POCO madness in high-sec. It’s a huge discouragement to the players you need most CCP. At one time I thought player owned POCOs would be a good idea. I was wrong. They are a horrible idea for high-sec because no noob I know wants to do it any more. It’s the experienced player perception issue again. The experienced players just have all the advantages say noobs I know. You should listen to them CCP and change that perception by putting all players at a guaranteed even footing. What you implemented does the opposite of this. It was not a winning solution, except to those experienced players with the wherewithal to take advantage of it – and the younger players payed the price.

Manufacturing is a difficult nut to simplify, and doing so may be bad for the overall economy. I have no good suggestions for that. It may be something that new players must aspire too do. If enough other things are available to keep new bros engaged and playing, some will eventually become manufacturers. That will work especially well if CCP keeps giving out BPCs for the new implants and such on missions new bros can accomplish. Eventually some of them will ask themselves, “how do I use this thing to make more ISK?” That will suffice for now as anything else must be very carefully thought out.

And it may even be necessary to setup systems that are PvP free so really new bros don’t feel so intimidated by more experienced players. And maybe that’d fix the problem with POCOs in high-sec. There wouldn’t be any in these noob areas. And before any of you more experienced players start to respond to this with your highly predictable objections just STFU. I don’t want to hear it. This isn’t about you and it won’t hurt your game play one damn bit for there to be safe havens for really new players. These areas would be strictly for pilots less than six months old. It’d be a training ground with no PvP risk. Once they are older than six months, they should be jump cloned out of the region and their ships along with them. Of course, only T1 technology would be available on the market in these areas. Also, new bros could leave of their own choice at any time, but once gone they can never return.

Will any of this happen? I doubt it. I don’t see anyone really advocating for a new-player friendly environment in high-sec. I think the CSM are a swell group of people with the best intentions, but they are far, far removed from their noob days and EVE Online has changed a lot since then. I guess I lack faith they take seriously the concerns I’ve heard from new players like Shatteredhip Fajardo. Most of them are concentrated on the end game, or game play that supports the end game. They feel new areas of space and expanding the end game will bolster subscriptions and create room for new players. I think they are wrong. That’s like building a house without a foundation. Empire space is the foundation of EVE Online, and unless it is overhauled with new players in mind, anything else CCP does will be for naught.

Fly Careful

– Mabrick

He’s been around the block a time or five. With over 15 years of MMO playing under his belt and a memory that reaches back to pencils and dice, he offers his insights into the not so virtual reality we call Eve Online.


  1. sadleric

    Confirming a stupid amount of isk can disappear trying to get a newbro into a Rifter.

    February 13, 2014 at 16:10 Reply
    1. Methylated Spirit

      Shit yeah, I’ve still got my first ever loss and kill fittings saved, they are hilarious, bad and (relatively) expensive. Good memories though.

      February 13, 2014 at 18:32 Reply
  2. Cloora

    Gevlon? Is that you?

    February 13, 2014 at 16:10 Reply
    1. Константин Скрябин

      Gevlon, I believe, has an opposite view on the issue — e.g., the highsec income should be nerfed by an order of magnitude, five t1 ships should struggle against single t2 ship etc.

      February 13, 2014 at 17:40 Reply
      1. Cloora

        No I am talking about the quality of the article.

        February 13, 2014 at 17:48 Reply
        1. Colin Wilson

          I’m sure it was supposed to be a jab, but since I found this article to be well written, and with less than 3 typos found on the first read it sounds like a compliment to Gevlon.

          February 13, 2014 at 18:22 Reply
          1. Cloora

            I am not talking grammar, I am talking about the solutions offered for this problem.

            February 13, 2014 at 22:40
  3. Kadeshi Grunt

    I agree that high sec needs a rebuff especially when it comes to PVE activities. There is a need to protect new plays and new player corps that are small from being exploited by the older generation , and bigger corporations. The best way to do this is to create a mechNism that if your corporation is under 1year old with toons limited to 10 , under 1 year old . But a war dec shield on it . And create tutorials on how to run a corporation with the dangers. Eg thieves and scammers

    February 13, 2014 at 16:15 Reply
  4. Jerri

    if only there were bravenoobfriendly alliances.

    February 13, 2014 at 16:17 Reply
    1. Константин Скрябин

      There are some alliances which accept noobs from day 1.

      February 13, 2014 at 17:39 Reply
      1. Ciaphas Cyne
        February 13, 2014 at 18:20 Reply
  5. Dirk MacGirk

    Maybe instead of giving your bartender bro 100 million isk, you should have given him some advice and insight into the game. That might have been more valuable than handing him the money and letting him flounder his way through what is a difficult learning curve.

    February 13, 2014 at 16:59 Reply
    1. Snargle

      Shit, even a “Hey, go join BNI” would have been better.

      February 13, 2014 at 17:30 Reply
    2. Константин Скрябин

      It’s much harder than hand out 100 millions isk. E.g., Mabrick probably doesn’t have time for this.

      February 13, 2014 at 17:35 Reply
  6. Dirk MacGirk

    “You should listen to them CCP and change that perception by putting all players at a guaranteed even footing.”

    As you say, dafuq?

    I’m all for protecting newbies and giving them time to learn. But protection comes at a price and that price is you can’t have all of the reward with none of the risk. Create some safe space zones. Fine. But you aren’t going to be able to access more lucrative content in those areas and once you choose to venture out of those protected zones, you can’t go back to escape a wardec. Don’t want a wardec? Stay in an NPC corp. Hisec is already too lucrative compared to other areas that don’t have the relative protections hisec enjoys. I’m not saying CCP can’t do something to make it more interesting, but that doesn’t mean they need to make it more profitable in the process. Not on a relative basis to the parts of Eve that are the domain of player-driven content.

    You’re right, the content in hisec is repetitive and boring over time. But the PVE generated content is no different anywhere else in Eve. You think running anoms is deeply thought provoking? No, it’s a means to an end, not the end itself. System generated content is always going to become repetitive and boring if you do it long enough. But Eve isn’t a game reliant on system generated content. It is a game of player interactions. And not all of those interactions are going to be positive for both parties. Protect newbies, OK. But there are limits to everything.

    New Subscribers are nice, but given the age of Eve Online, it is far better for CCP as a business to ensure they retain their multi-year subscribers than to attract new blood. There needs to be a balance, but only one of those two groups has a proven track record of paying their subscriptions. And if you joined Eve because you read some write-up about the battle of B-R written by some dude that doesn’t play the game, then I’m sorry. It wasn’t all that fun considering the playability and battles even remotely like that in scale are rarities indeed . It happened, it was a thing, but it wasn’t what most gamers would consider “fun”. But that’s a different issue.

    February 13, 2014 at 17:15 Reply
  7. Triptee

    I’ve read it over and over in forums, “EVE is a social game. Find a new-player friendly corporation and join.” The responsibility of keeping new players in the game does not rest on the shoulders of experienced players. However, it can be argued that the experience players are best suited to help new Eve players learn and enjoy the game. Hopefully, the result will be time and money spent.

    I’ve seen new players, less than a day old, in null sec. By the time they were finished with their 14 day trial they had already flown in fleets, tackled their first ship, gotten on their first PvP kill, and used a Titan bridge. None of these things would have happened without a group of experienced players willing and capable of showing a “NewBro” how to do it.

    It cannot be emphasized enough… new players need to become part of an active, vibrant experienced group, both willing and capable of teaching and sharing the enjoyment of EVE. I have no idea how, but perhaps certain styles of game play could be encouraged to help the NewBro friendly groups.

    February 13, 2014 at 17:23 Reply
  8. Константин Скрябин

    Well, the only way to get into 3000 USD ship is to spend either 3000 USD or the equivalent amount of effort. That knowledge probably won’t surprise any newbie. I believe, it’s possible to drop some money on PLEXes, get the necessary experience&connections, and fly a titan within a year. Our corp provided an opportunity for a pretty casual 6-month old pilot to participate in HED-GP on a Moros.

    February 13, 2014 at 17:31 Reply
    1. Ciaphas Cyne

      this^ i doubt very many of these new recruits are actually expecting to be titan pilots easily. or even WANT to be titan pilots for that matter.

      February 13, 2014 at 18:18 Reply
      1. Tit an

        I think everyone in the game should be forced to be a Titan pilot, if only for a year…

        Then they’d understand what “freedom” really means!

        February 13, 2014 at 21:31 Reply
    2. erratic1212

      He would have gone down easily and not done crap for dps. It takes a year to get support skills trained.

      So, no, bs.

      February 13, 2014 at 18:39 Reply
      1. Methylated Spirit

        Do you actually log into Eve or are you just another EFT warrior?

        February 13, 2014 at 21:39 Reply
        1. erratic1212

          You obviously have no clue, so I’d say maybe you need to be an EFT warrior, which actually it would be EVEMON, so my point exactly. You have no clue.

          You’re going to tell me someone was flying a dread in 6 mos when it takes 3 for the ship alone, not including weapons or any support skills.

          Stupidity in abundance.

          February 14, 2014 at 10:48 Reply
          1. Methylated Spirit

            Do you know that you can use EFT for it too, right? Also you just stated it takes 3 months to fly a dread. So yes I can believe a 6 month old toon is capable of flying one. Holy fuck mate just give up.

            February 14, 2014 at 22:14
  9. erratic1212

    “The perception is that skill points matter, and perception is everything when it comes to retaining new players. EVE Online has a terrible perception problem. The game is going to have to change if EVE Online is to ever thrive again.”

    It’s the only thing that matters. Old players have 2 and 3x the dps, defense, maneuverability as a new player. Any mention of an SP handout would have older players in tears because they would never stand to give up their advantage. It’s kinda pathetic really. Old players hide behind sp, and so many others further hide behind the blob called CFC.

    The only way for newer players to survive out in low/null is to be in groups. Alone they are just easy ganks. But then null is another story with the big RMT culture. Yea, they need to become a part of that.

    The game is shit for new players, and I would never bring anyone into it.

    February 13, 2014 at 18:13 Reply
    1. Ciaphas Cyne

      im sorry you dont have friends. you can tackle a 10 year vet on day 1. you can jam a 10b isk ship and cause it do to NOTHING in a ship that costs 500k ISK. its not our fault you dont see that, and frankly im glad people like you dont bring people into the game. youd be a shit space friend

      February 13, 2014 at 18:21 Reply
      1. erratic1212

        Oh, i’ve played a new toon in fw and the only time I could do anything is in fleet.

        Why don’t you try it once. Yea, you’re so useful and totally useless at anything on your own.

        February 13, 2014 at 18:25 Reply
        1. Ciaphas Cyne

          it takes about two weeks to fly a very well fit fed navy comet. you can sit in a novice plex with that great pirate faction ship that you bought dirt cheap with LP and put up a serious 1v1 against lots of pilots. half the chars in facwar i see are under a year old anyway. its a very noob friendly zone. again, im sorry you suck but its not my fault.

          take a look at my friend V. he started the game this summer. hes now one of the deadliest pilots in all of placid and black rise. hes got under 15m SP


          i watched him go from total noob to killing machine in under two months. you need to HTFU friend.

          February 13, 2014 at 19:04 Reply
          1. erratic1212

            Umm, no it takes 300 days to train support skills. Get your copy of evemon out. That’s not including any gunnery, ship, drone, missile, offensive mod skills.

            Sorry, you lose.

            February 13, 2014 at 19:28
          2. Ciaphas Cyne

            hahaha omg dude you are pathetic. i have 12,500,000 SP. https://zkillboard.com/character/866354960/

            300days for support skills… yea cause we all need adv wep upgrades 5 to kill something….

            February 13, 2014 at 19:57
          3. Methylated Spirit

            300 days? Get fucked retard. If you cannot get a kill in fw with a weeks training under your belt, Eve doesn’t want you.

            February 13, 2014 at 21:37
          4. erratic1212

            Oh look, it’s the ‘give me more newbies to gank’ retard.

            You’re so full of shit I doubt you even play, just here to spread propaganda.

            February 14, 2014 at 11:14
          5. Methylated Spirit

            Nice, you just proved my point. You just stated that I’ve been ganking noobs with similar sp, this would make it down to EXPERIENCE wouldn’t it? The thing you said wouldn’t matter? Also, this is my ingame name. Did a search, you don’t come up. Stop shitposting behind a useless name, or fuck off.

            February 14, 2014 at 22:06
        2. Methylated Spirit

          I started a fw alt, did 3 days training, then bagged 4 kills before I lost my first ship. SP does not help you scan efficiently, pick your targets, kite properly, and slingshot out if you are in trouble. Putting in the time does.

          February 13, 2014 at 21:35 Reply
    2. Dirk MacGirk

      So let’s see here, I’ll never play checkers against a more experienced player because they’ve been playing for longer than I have. I’m new to a 10-year old game, the playing field should be leveler or it sucks for me. WTF? Old players don’t hide behind SP. They earned SP and just started before you. They aren’t hiding behind shit. “Waaah, that guy with an education and experience makes more money than me. The government should make us equaler because I’m at a financial disadvantage.”

      Oh and CFC? You mean the coalition the openly recruits probably the biggest number of new(ish) players in nullsec and then seeks to assist and teach them skills that will help them progress? Yeah, good example. Second to Eve-Uni, I’m not sure there is another group that does more to educate newer players. Certainly not on that scale. You may hate the CFC for various good and bad reasons, but at least give some credit where it’s due.

      February 13, 2014 at 18:41 Reply
      1. erratic1212

        “Earned SP”? Your joking right? You don’t earn shit in this game.

        Brave Newbies recruits new players.

        Sorry, you’re fail.

        February 13, 2014 at 18:48 Reply
        1. Dirk MacGirk

          They earned it through their time and the development of their experience behind the keyboard. Which by the time you reach a certain level in terms of SP will actually become a bigger factor in your success. Eve is a little deeper than WOW and SP will only carry you so far. But, my sympathies for your ignorance in thinking SP is the deciding factor.

          Apologies to Brave Newbies and any other group out there open to newer players that I failed to mention. There are a legit few that have solid programs fro the development of new players.

          February 13, 2014 at 19:01 Reply
          1. erratic1212

            Yea, you log in, click on something to train, add to queue, watch the sp tick.

            If you call that “earning” anything, then you really accomplished something there haven’t you. I’m sure it’s something you’re proud of. Sorry, I don’t see the accomplishment in it.

            February 13, 2014 at 19:05
          2. Dirk MacGirk

            OK, now you’re just being a dumb fuck. Because you obviously keep focusing on SP. You can buy a 25/50/100 million SP toon to open up new ships and weapons, but the fact is that if you aren’t experienced in the game, your SP won’t count for shit. Running missions for SP 23/7 for 6 weeks so you can “skill up” isn’t going to make you a better pilot or more successful at Eve.

            February 13, 2014 at 19:16
          3. erratic1212

            Yea, and skill comes into play so often in this game.

            Who is the dumb fuck? Probably in CFC too. Yea, that’s skill.

            February 13, 2014 at 19:24
  10. Ciaphas Cyne

    disagree with a lot of what youre suggesting here. i guess all the dirt cheap, self paying pvp i get in fac war has spoiled me. new players need to jump into the deep end and get killed. alot. ships are bullets, not guns. and the faster the newbie learns this the better. high sec is a sure fire way to doom a new player to bad pvp, boring pve, and scrub lord leadership.

    that said:

    “And no one who has played as long as I have is likely to be the future of EVE Online, not even The Mittani. He might even retire considering all the interviews he’s done. The urge for him to go out while on top must be really, really strong. ”

    is a very interesting thought. i kinda get the feel that mittens is “retired” any time his coalition is doing poorly. now their on top hes taking lots of credit and acting very involved.

    February 13, 2014 at 18:16 Reply
  11. Skooma Steve

    i agree with most points on this. the main thing is high sec is boring when you’re new. you get about a month, maybe 2 of “omg yay spaceships lazors zomg new cruiser!” before it starts to turn into a boring grind. more lower level epic story arcs would be a good start. Making Faction loot drop in missions but VERY rarely (with the size of the module depend on mission level). another good idea would be to come up with a high lp mission agent (something separate from the usual security agent) that will ask you to find a sleeper item or possibly give you a random 0.0/low sec system to make you travel out and see more of the space. cool stuff like that

    February 13, 2014 at 18:46 Reply
    1. Skooma Steve

      also, if you don’t think retaining newer players is the future of eve, you’re a fucking moron. let me break this down for you from a business standpoint.

      If you retain the same player base you’ve always had, and don’t retain new players, you will never EVER EVER have a growth in profit. If the company can’t make more money than what they currently have, then you’ll never see the improvements to server performance and the eventual removal of TIDI. CCP could hire more people to figure out pos code and finally get that shit fixed.
      Also, don’t argue that if they needed more money they wouldn’t be building a monument, we all know CCP has their retard moment (INCARNA!)

      As for me personally, i’d love to see ccp give the middle finger to vet players and say “this is where we’re at, we’re taking a year to focus on nothing but fixing the game to retain newer players”. Some of you probably think that’s dumb, and i don’t blame you. But the fact remains, most of you would gripe, and bitch, and claim that you’re going to unsub your accounts, but you wont, we saw what happened with incarna, you either wont leave or you’ll come right back.

      February 13, 2014 at 18:59 Reply
      1. Dirk MacGirk

        How about just creating an arcade version of Eve, but on a separate server for those casual players who don’t want to participate in Real Eve Online. This way they could enjoy the core game of Eve while being safe, but in return have no influence on the true game, which they aren’t really playing. Then one day they could choose to go to Real Eve with all their accrued skills, but no isk and no assets because those would have been earned in the watered-down game. Or they could just continue to play in the arcade area forever if that suits them. Is that a valid option? Could get CCP more subscribers and would allow some of them to transition if they so chose. But it wouldn’t have any influence over the main game.

        February 13, 2014 at 19:12 Reply
        1. Not just a bitter vet

          That idea is as about as good as forcing all null alliances to actually pay REAL cash to get their ships in game to go pewpew with. If you want to do that then make all the null groups have to fork over real cash then they will really understand consequences and also the efforts of those who you deem “dont play the real eve online”. If groups in null were really loosing hundreds of thousands of actual money, feeling the pain and tears, and they found out they could save by actually respecting those people who mine, who haul, who do industry, “who care bear”, then the game would be the better for it. Honestly its the types who went all “hardcore leet pvp pew pew killmailwhore” who ruined the game.

          February 13, 2014 at 23:28 Reply
          1. Dirk MacGirk

            Maybe you should re-read what I wrote. I didn’t say get rid of hisec or that “carebears” should go to another server. Nor did I make an offending remark towards hisec industrialists or miners. FFS bro, apply reading comprehension skills.

            We hear these calls all the time for making hisec “more n00b friendly” or reducing risk in hisec because some duders aren’t into non-consentual PVP. I’m asking: if there is such high demand for that, why not just create an amusement park version of Eve for those people who just want to PVE for the fun of it. But let’s not allow this risk-free world to compromise the gameplay AND more importantly, the economy of Eve. Maybe there is a big swath of current and potential players out there who don’t want what Real Eve has to offer. They just want to fly spaceships and participate in PVE content without any risk at all. Then again, maybe there isn’t.

            February 14, 2014 at 03:14
      2. Lee Thrace

        Honest question: Why can’t CCP focus on maintaining current profit margins? Why do their profits, “have to grow?” Table top gaming has been around for a long time, it serves a niche community, and probably isn’t growing that much.

        Violin makers don’t focus on growing their market. In my experience, people who are fixated on profit growth end up producing garbage for whatever they believe the lowest common denominator to be.

        February 13, 2014 at 19:25 Reply
        1. Dirk MacGirk

          Good question. Eve Online isn’t a growth game, not in terms of new players. Not this long into it’s cycle. Growth has been because of add ons like alts and plex. Eve, as a product, is a cash cow. The focus isn’t on achieving maximum growth as much as it is on maintaining what is probably a pretty profitable enterprise. The business cycle is no different here than anywhere else. Eve is spinning off cash and for CCP that could and should be used to be growing their business through other, more profitable ventures that will carry them into the future. Eve players may want to see 100% of all subscription revenue going back into the game, but that is unrealistic from a business perspective.

          February 13, 2014 at 19:34 Reply
          1. Skooma Steve

            see i agree with this, but the point i’m making is that there are so many vet players who keep complaining about pos mechanics and asking for sov war changes and changes to the servers to make them capable of handling these big fleet fights with minimal lag and no TIDI. They want sweeping changes for THEIR part of the game while high/low sec remain relatively untouched. However all of these things are big changes with lots of changes to the code and some hardware upgrades wouldn’t be so bad either.

            Now like Lee Thrace said above, the people who look to grow their profits usually end up producing shit products, but my focus isn’t really on CCP getting more “profit” for themselves, but rather to get more profit which will allow them to bring on more staff and get more hardware.

            Anyway, the main reason i’m arguing this point is the fact that so many people love this game, but with the way gaming is evolving over the last decade there are things that CCP needs to do with eve to keep it going strong. Yes filling this particular niche is working for them, but how long until another game company comes along with something better to fill that niche. We already see an attempt by Star Citizen. Who knows how many eve players will leave just for that game, not to mention all the people who probably would have enjoyed eve if it was a little more fun, and a little less grind.

            It just makes me a little sad how null sec players demand change but if it involves taking attention away from them in favor of gaining more subscriptions it’s automaticly a stupid idea

            February 13, 2014 at 23:27
          2. Lee Thrace

            I would say that Eve is a lot more like a violin, or a really nice car. I’ve played eve longer than any other game, and I believe that is because of the quality of the PVP mechanics(when they are working).

            I don’t play many games, but I really enjoy Eve. The pvp mechanics are AWESOME so long as fights stay small enough. Obviously more players decrease the quality of fights by causing tidi, but Eve can handle very large fights relative to other games while giving the individual pilot more creativity in how you navigate the fight.

            Differing ship types and Fitting options are endless provide different combat options during engagements. I think the fights are like a crazy sped up chess game, and I love the mental stimulation. My suggestions for the game would be similar to Grath Telkin’s twitter comments i.e. remove some of the mechanics that allow people to bypass learning how to manual pilot.

            You gain very little ground in a sov war by focusing too much on shooting ships. The only direct action that affects sovereignty is structure shooting. Structures may be conflict drivers, but they also have functional value. I feel that a lot of people who want to fight for sov aren’t willing to commit to this objective. The CFC, is able to “keep it simple stupid,” by focusing their effort on structure shoots. They declare sov war, and then they correctly place structure shooting objectives above PVP quality.

            I would like to have an impact on the state of sovereignty, but in order to do so I need to divert attention from what I enjoy doing most. Sadly, It has taken me years to see this, but I have made a lot of enduring friendships. Eve has been good to me.

            If CCP could somehow make it possible for an unlimited number of people to fight simultaneously my love for the game would greatly increase, and I would gladly pay more for my sub. However, I have no idea whether or not it would be possible to provide what I just described because I know very little about how the systems that run the game function. Also, I know very little about computers in general. Furthermore, I have no idea whether or not it would be practical for CCP to cater directly to people like me.

            Is there a sustainable market for high quality expensive games? Could Eve survive if CCP were more like a high end instrument or car company? Would people sacrifice the quantity of games I don’t know enough about this market to answer these questions, but I would love to discuss them!

            February 14, 2014 at 00:21
          3. Lee Thrace

            Addition: A change to the sov system may be able to cure some of the tidi related problems, but I haven’t thought seriously about actual solutions. Dispersed and simultaneous objectives might help, but I wouldn’t know what goals should be injected or removed to create that.

            February 14, 2014 at 00:38
  12. Provi Miner

    htfu eve is a hard game on purpose and undocking is a consent to pvp, the only people you can call friend in eve is someone who hasn’t podded you yet. Hard? yes, Harsher? you bet, Worth it the first time you win a fight? Dam well better believe it.

    February 13, 2014 at 19:39 Reply
    1. erratic1212

      Eve is not hard. You think that dumping a crap load of different objects into a game make’s it hard? Eve somehow makes stupid people feel smart, but sorry it’s just an illusion.

      February 13, 2014 at 19:46 Reply
      1. Ciaphas Cyne

        eve is not hard you are correct. im confused as to how eve is not hard, yet youve managed to bitch about how hard it is all day. which is it?

        February 13, 2014 at 20:48 Reply
        1. erratic1212

          Oh i’m sorry you can’t distinguish watching SP click by with difficulty. Or maybe that is hard for you, considering what you’re posting.

          The player controls the outcome in a pvp engagement far more in WOW, Rift, or just about any other game, but you ‘think’ you’re better cause you can fly around another ship and press ‘F1’. Yea, that’s hard. Shows real skill.

          February 14, 2014 at 11:02 Reply
          1. Ciaphas Cyne

            w/e man. you say eve is hard for low SP pilots. i post you several people with low SP doing great. in fleets and solo. and you still whine and complain. no one cares. go play a game you like. its your life afterall. eve wont miss u

            February 14, 2014 at 17:39
  13. orly?

    CCP faces a problem of new player frustration that’s pressured on two fronts. The first is the EVE learning curve. If other ‘classic’ fantasy games we know of have a curve like figuring out how to ride a big-wheel, EVE is more like learning to fly an attack helicopter.

    The second is the ‘bigger, faster, me-me-me, now-now-now’ mindset of may of today’s “I’m out there and shopping” gamers.

    Fortunately EVE Online can push back on both of these fronts.

    The first issue: Learning Curve. Some of this has GOT to stay; CCP can not tell all the vets “Yeah that thing you spent 4 years figuring out – yeah it’s all automatic and free now for newbs”. What they can do is expand on some of the -excellent- and fairly recent ideas like different sized sites in lowsec. Why not have the same thing only in high security space for lower stakes? When you initiate warp you land on a gate. To activate the gate you must answer a read-and-click dialog – frustrating? Perhaps but this is for new players. You automatically get sorted by class of ship (n00bships, t1 frigs only, t1 and faction frigs, etc) by the gate and tossed into the appropriate ‘heap’ for a battle for the ages. Even fittings could be controlled pretty easilly. Call it Concorde-Sanctioned Combat Training.

    A pre-fight mission should accompany a mock battleground with tutorials with general, solid advice for the budding PVPer. They should also be SP-limited areas of play, not just ship fit. I think 1.5-2.5M would be a good cap but I haven’t been there in a long time. Give awards for how long you kept a target pointed, how long you lived, etc all in a timed event that runs similar to an AT.

    There you are – a simple ADD to the game that uses nothing diabolical or new, introduces no new uber-noob modules or ships, does not impact 0.0 players except maybe to buff lowbie mod prices a bit and the ‘gimme right now’ set gets to go out and tackle, pvp, etc. The hard-learning-curve guys still have the curve to take BUT they won’t simply be absorbed into the biomass-mop doing so. At least this way they have a chance to go ‘oops-time to get another free ship’.

    Oh and for goodness sake make the civ guns 1/2 as powerful as regular lowest-end small guns of racial type, stick one miner in the hold of new ships and keep your tritanium. It would also help to have a civ point that only worked on newb ships (I thought I remembered such a thing but don’t recall the restrictions right now). You can only fit to newb ships you can only tackle newb ships with it. BOOM – instant free jollies.

    Pod-killing in these events would result in concorde response, plus a 4-hour cooldown, plus the normal penalties to sec status. I would consider repeat PKing the same way I would consider scamming, griefing in newb start systems…

    Anyhow… my two bits.

    February 13, 2014 at 20:21 Reply
    1. GSection

      Good points!

      February 13, 2014 at 20:39 Reply
    2. Methylated Spirit

      I really like your ideas, approach CSM immediately please.

      February 13, 2014 at 21:28 Reply
  14. master blaster

    Eliminate High – Sec to save EVE. have new players literally log into the center of a sphere of titans with charged doomsdays. If the new players want to play they can either become slave ice miners or become permakilled by the titans.

    After weeks of abuse one carebear throws off his shackles and leads the publords in a spartacus like galatic rebellion, destroying null, shitting down Mittani’s neck, and getting an hour long blowjob from Mint Chip, courtesy of CCP for epic content creation.

    Or fix TiDi, whatever works.

    February 13, 2014 at 21:12 Reply
  15. John Doe

    This is way too long but I understand that assisted drone make lag but 200 people manually sending them to attack isn’t. Also CCP should hand out free titans to newbies.
    Oh btw, I now read something of someone that knows someone who allegedly was there…

    February 13, 2014 at 21:31 Reply
  16. Karma_Will_Get_You

    I can’t wait for Goons to go all out on Empire. It’s going to be glorious. lol

    February 13, 2014 at 21:58 Reply
    1. Dinsdale Pirannha

      I have no doubt it is coming, since there is nothing to conquer in null sec. Yes, I can’t wait either. It will really be enlightening to see if CCP actually recognizes the damage they do to the sub base, and whispers a friendly word to mittens to back off, or if CCP allows goons to run amok.

      February 13, 2014 at 22:39 Reply
  17. GFY

    Sounds like something Goblin would write.

    February 13, 2014 at 23:25 Reply
  18. slothen

    This idea that rookies need a pvp free zone is fucking stupid. Just tell new players not to fucking mine and no one will kill them. Or give the RoF penalty back to destroyers, i don’t care. What happens right now is that new players invariably get drawn into mining for some unexplicable reason, then they make shit for isk, find its boring, get ganked, and become sad, and have wasted SP.

    February 14, 2014 at 00:29 Reply
    1. CFC Grunt

      why don’t we just set up pve only servers and change the name to World of Eve ? But seriously we should try and keep the noobs

      February 14, 2014 at 00:55 Reply
      1. Care Free Coalition

        You must be that guy who had friends to help him when he started. Probably joined up with CFC and have had it easy. CFC members talking hard about how easy it is to mine. lol wat? Not everyone wants to join the biggest collection of dicks in the universe. Sorry.

        February 18, 2014 at 01:39 Reply
    2. DubbaYooArr

      You do realize that mining is literally essential to eve right?

      February 14, 2014 at 03:37 Reply
    3. NoTech

      You rly understood the economy in eve

      February 14, 2014 at 14:33 Reply
  19. Noisrevbus

    A bit lengthy, but well written and kudos to you for daring to speak up against the “let’s push people into an established null as quickly as possible” ideal that has been humming in coir for a while now.

    I’m not against encouraging people to go to null, but pushing new players into the loving embrace of existing organisation is not without complication. In the same sense that we should let kids be kids, it’s not unfair to suggest that we let new players be new players … at least for a while. The problem of old was not that people stuck around highsec until they had the basics laid down and felt comfortable to venture forth – the problem was that they remained in high past L4 defloration.

    In that sense, the responses from your new-player friends are both interesting and symptomatic.

    The Bartender is right in the sense that without an overprotective support-structure around him he is likely to be vultured by older players – at the same time that is part of learning the game. Established, and highly developed player organisations are very good at mitigating the stakes in new player mistakes and guiding players toward understanding the relative safety of different space. At the same time it doesn’t allow the new player to experience and overcome in the same sense and alot of strongly guided new players never learn the intricates of the game – even years down their spaceship carreer we can see so many players now who are oblivious to some of the finer points and details in the sandbox that used to be somewhat common knowledge (take err… bumping, for example, it’s a somewhat lost art due to personally motivated gameplay becomming less common) for simply moving your ship around on your own accord and volition.

    See, there is one thing that can only be learnt by experiencing it and that is … experience. It’s very interesting to see how despite CCP making an overflow of ISK available very early in the game, new players still consider themselves poor. That 100m ISK is an absolute fortune for a new player, yet your friend seem to look at it trivially and based on skillbooks. He also seem to believe that he needs the skillbooks to close some sort of SP-gap. However, the biggest issue he is going to have – provided he does indeed decide to venture forth on his own premise – is experience. That gap is larger now than ever and as a result, doing things out of your own ambition is both more rare and difficult than ever. There are fewer people around to help him interprete the situation the first time he gets bumped or whatever. There are more groups than ever that can assure him safety from being bumped, safety from interaction, but fewer who can actually provide him with the experience to deal with that.

    There is SO MUCH you can do in a small ship these days that is simply not being done because the knowledge of how to do these intricates is not being passed on. The options of joining an open established social group and taking on a basic regimen is readily available, but that sort of regiment is also what may push a player into ships they can not handle and leave to believe things such as 100m is something they need for their next skillbook or ship. It’s all part of the vertical balance and development. That is something that was faulty in the old L4 gamplay as well, with players staying in highsec and quickly going from ship-class to ship-class of the next larger size at the pace of mission level to level (Cruiser-BC for L3, BC-BS for L4 etc.), rather than the players who were taught how to run certain profitable content in smaller ships that let them train basic necessary PvP and PvE skills simultainously and enjoy both sides of the content at once.

    In that sense, the old rules still apply even though the mechanics today are horribly mismatched. You can make 100m in Frigates these days and that will make ISK trivial when all you can fly is said Frigates. At the same time, despite this overabundant accessability new players don’t seem to exploit those ISK fountains anyway, because they lack the knowledge of how to access them.

    It’s late and I’m tired, so let’s see if I (or you) managed to connect the dots and make what I was trying to say comprehensible :).

    February 14, 2014 at 01:14 Reply
    1. Noisrevbus

      If you managed to power through all that wordy poop, let me just spotlight the (fairly complicated) point I was trying to make: Alot of the new player experience today still seem to take the characteristics of what we considered faulty with the old L4-crutch experience.

      New players seem to go through the same motions, face the same bottlenecks and crutches but in other environments (from Frigate -> BC -> BS and stagnation climb in missions to the same climb in Fleet-participation, for example). There are some things you can’t take away from a new player that makes them new. There are some changes made to the game that were based on uninformed decisions and you can see that new players still view the game from those uninformed perspectives and retain those related experiences. At the same time the issues created and the related experiences players derive from them are far more compounded today.

      In old EVE some people would be of the opinion that you never saw Frigates, and that they were not competetive ship-balance wise. That new players were not allowed to be competetive. Yet you saw a fair amount of new player in Frigates. Today all you see is Frigates because they are now completely overbalanced with respect to numbers in a sandbox and cost-effect.

      Similarily, taking the perspective alot of the changes in recent years was modeled on: That of GSF’s new-bee NPE programs you can see a similar development. When Goons first came to EVE that sort of help was golden, in that environment it had almost only positive effects. They taught new players how to make the number factor and cost-effect count and balance to other factors such as ISK, Skillpoints and similar. New players could actually be considered poor and helping them with skillbooks and ships that the GSF did could mean the difference between retaining a new player or see them lost to repeat discouragement.

      Today on the other hand all those things have become completely up-ended on the design-level (it’s obviously still a good and well organised move on the player-end). Losing the 100m in Frigates is nigh impossible. Instead of taking the worst edge off perceived loss, help programs now make any loss trivial, and players are brought up under that experience (making so many players more risk-averse than ever, because they have never experienced or been taught how to cope and deal with tangible loss).

      The game kept being rebalanced (and still is) on the reputation of being new-player unfriendly. However, today EVE is looking more and more like the most trivial and overabundantly new-player friendly game out there. I can think of very few other games that let your experience the nominal endgame as quickly and effortlessly. It was pretty awesome the first time we could take someone out to shoot a Titan on their first day in a Frigate, but when that is no longer the exception it’s not as inspiring anymore and the excitement of progression is just as easily lost in the GSF-style regimen as going through the motions of higsec missions.

      February 14, 2014 at 01:47 Reply
      1. Noisrevbus

        That explanation also ended up lengthy and poor, but there’s no salvaging it now – I’ll just call it a day and see if I can clear it up sometime in the future (if need be) :P.

        It’s an interesting topic though :).

        February 14, 2014 at 02:01 Reply
  20. dichzor

    dude, i think you NAILED it. procedural mission generation would be awesome. Replayability, unpredictability, danger and that special brand of loathing that EVE universe feels toward its inhabitants… Hell, it might even be fun! Great idea, man.

    edit: rest of ideas are so-so.

    February 14, 2014 at 10:34 Reply
  21. frankster

    Procedurally generated missions would miss out the opportunity to advance mini story lines. I would like to see one mission (or chain of missions) added at each level every month. CCP have talked about reworking their mission generation tools so I am hopeful that we will see something like this later this year.

    February 14, 2014 at 11:33 Reply
  22. Banden Lokemir

    “I am getting pretty damned bored running the same level IV security missions over and over again.” But Mabrick, thats not a new player problem, it’s an old player problem…

    The overall theme of this article is “perceptions” and I think that is entirely correct, it is all about perceptions. What I find rather strange is that you want CCP to change the game to fit the perception that new players have of the game. Instead of changing the perceptions of the new players to fit what the game actually is.

    The perception that “You need 30 million skill points to be useful in pvp.” is Wrong, there is so much fun and useful stuff you can do just flying an inty. You wont be flying a titan, but while a titan is an amazing ship to fly (ahem), the vast majority of pilots in nullsec does not fly titans, they don’t even fly capitals! Maybe you could implement a special story arc for new players, that explains the usefulness of small ships like tacklers, logis and ecms because currently the experience does not break with the idea that bigger is always better. I mean every time you reach a new level missions you will also need proficiency in flying a bigger class of ship and that sends the wrong signals.

    6 months in a newbie area? Dude, they will die from shock when they are pushed out of there and a lot of them will probably die from boredom before their 6 months is up. Furthermore, you are giving them the perception that as soon as they leave they will be shot in the neck, execution style. It really is not that bad, what we need to deal with is the perception that dying is bad. Why isn’t there a tutorial or story arc mission where you end up losing your ship, get podded but still complete the mission and get reimbursed for your loss? That is exactly how nullsec pvp works! You wont get anywhere by cuddling new players, they will leave the training area with a false sense of security. That’s even worse than how it is now! What we need to break with is the sense of security, because danger is what makes the blood pump, its what lets people make the right decisions. It is what allows people to properly asses the situation and not do stupid shit that ends up costing them their enjoyment of the game.

    Changing the game to fit expectations is not good! creating an experience that give the players the right perception is the way to go!

    February 14, 2014 at 11:36 Reply
    1. Noisrevbus

      I think you made some very good points, I just want to add some things…

      The reason people didn’t just fly inties in old EVE was that the ability to train into different ships or things to do in the game rather than a linear progress also meant that there was a disconnect between the progression of entry level PvE and PvP as well as the different securities of space.

      People wanted it all at once and that lead to beliefs that you needed it all at once (ie., you needed the 30m SP before your game began). That’s not to distract from the point that I actually agree with you – you never needed those skillpoints and it was not only possible, but also good the game, to learn one aspect of gameplay at a time.

      However, I can also sympathize with how people being faced with all these choices of styles, sizes and risks would aim for some sort of “golden rule” that usually entailed getting into at least low-level ability to do L4 (BC/BS) or Ice-mine (Hulks) before training skills that enabled you to properly do low-level PvP (MWD, point etc.); and how that in turn also made alot of people trying to perfect their high-sec gameplay rather than venturing out at that point, despite it being well in time to do so (or comparatively, that it would have been possible for them to venture out much sooner, had they known of alternate PvE progression in smaller ships, such as playing Pirate L2 or whatever).

      Additionally, I also want to point to the fact that “the stuff you can do in an Inty” alone does not provide an superior alternative. Taking away the distractions of mining or L4 and replacing them with the need to not make ISK at all does not really translate into a more varied, enjoyable or less “golden rule”-plagued progression. The norm of taking your Rifter out to nullsec only to see it replaced and your progression formed by Coalition-decisions and free skillbooks is by no means any more diverse than going through those motions in Highsec and never leaving.

      February 16, 2014 at 13:04 Reply
      1. Noisrevbus

        I should also add that this translates to the social aspect of EVE as well. It is often hailed that joining a coalition is more social than playing in highsec, yet I remember how many of the trivial tasks in highsec still lead to the formation of social groups doing both mining and missioning together, helping out new members and doing so in a rather diverse climate with many small corps and alliances. Even if many of them, too, remained as highsec-only corps, or perhaps only vaguely breached lined by dipping into lowsec at times (to erect a tower for certain production or w/e) there were minorities that progressed into more diverse gameplay.

        Similarily, large coalitions also tend to shake off players or groups into formation of smaller more diverse entities: RnK is a good example of a group who went from a moderate level political gameplay into a more enhanced gameplay as a smaller group and that Goons even shit out something like Groon (small-gang Goons, the bastard child of EVE, heh) is a very telling example.

        From a design standpoint I guess the question is rather wether you believe in top-down or bottom-up design. When it comes to the economy most of us seem to agree that bottom-up is preferrable these days (even the leadership of large coalitions do). The question remain wether similar perspectives may develop on the NPE.

        February 16, 2014 at 13:15 Reply
  23. qwero

    Dont simplify mining and manufacturing! It would f*** up the EVE economy!

    But i agree that the mission system needs an overhaul. Make normal missions randomly generated (like the levels in diablo) and add alot more epic arc missions with good story.

    February 14, 2014 at 15:43 Reply
  24. woah

    more, easier, stuff in high sec isnt the answer. I say introduce some kind of pvp missions, get people into fights, low sec, high sec, 0.0… anything. Needs more CCP run programs like RvB.

    February 14, 2014 at 17:48 Reply
  25. EVE'd Out

    Skill points for me as a noob was more about fitting options, I couldnt do the fits that made the ships viable. Not enuff PG/CPU to put on that shield extender to give me a usable tank or enuff CPU to cram on the necessary TE or dmg mod.

    Ofcourse, this was pre Fozzie rebalancing, when things were so much more limited and usable options really needing those fits.

    As for the procedural missions, totally agree. I really dont see player retension happening until this is implemented. Hi-sec missioning once you’ve reached lvl 4s is mind numbing and the lvl 1-3s are just tedious. Level 5s require caps usually, thats 1 year plus, so thats 11 months of lvl 4s, uck.

    Also, couldnt agree more about the hi-sec POCOs, sounded like a good idea at the time, but now they set dumbass tax rates, unless you raise the isk and the ppl to reclaim them, but for how long. Worst idea ever. The cost of reclaiming them usually means you are better off paying the dumbass tax rates.

    90% of my friends have quit EVE is the last 6 months. TiDi and the fact that the whole null-sec world is run by a few ppl on Jaberlon. Oh, and some CCP inspired nerfs/changes putting them off.

    As for new ppl, I no longer advise/welcome/suggest ppl to play EVE. The steep learning curve/training times and the state of affairs in the game are just too off putting, I played solid for 2 years and was as hardcore as it got, quoting all the the usual HTFU etc. Now, I suggest they hang on for Elite or one of the other upcomming space sims instead.

    I’ve gone from biggest fan to just disappointed…sad really, cause I’d just trained into an Archon, but that wasnt enuff to keep me in the game.

    February 14, 2014 at 18:54 Reply
    1. Dirk MacGirk

      Not exactly a direct reply to you, but you do raise some issues that keep popping up time and time again

      Corp-owned HiSec POCOs – Why are these a bad idea? Because some owners charge a stupidly-high tax rate? And by “stupidly high” I mean higher than what Interbus used to charge. Not all POCO owners charge high tax. If I’m correct, the ones in Hisec owned by Goons (and others) are very low in order to encourage their use. This is good market dynamics at play. Don’t want to pay a high tax? Go and use one with a lower tax and then the guy charging the high tax will need to sit on unused POCOs or change their tax rate. BUT if the POCOs you use are owned by someone charging a high tax, AND you are unwilling to relocate your PI operation to a more tax friendly area, then that is on you. Because you do have options.

      PVE – This is a really a tale of two worlds. Almost two separate games. PVE is generally boring. It doesn’t matter if it is running missions in empire or running anoms in nullsec. The difference is in how it is viewed. Is doing PVE your game, or is it a means to an end? In nullsec, it is generally a means to an end: funding some other aspect of the game. Most players don’t rat in null for the thrill of it. But it seems like there is a broad swath of hisec dudes who may be running missions for fun and want it to be more exciting. The question is: would making it more exciting be worth reducing their payout? Or would you rather keep the current payout value and deal with the boredom? We need to remember that PVE in terms of missions and ratting are ISK faucets into the game. And right now, running level 4s is on par with running anoms in null. Maybe even more lucrative and certainly safer under the CONCORD overwatch. But given that both are ISK faucets, and faucets have an inflationary effect, do we need PVE to be both exciting AND lucrative? Should they be boring? Or again, would you be willing to trade the payout for a bit more excitement? Because I’m not sure Eve needs a mass influx of people who only want to run missions for the fun of it. Not from a subscription standpoint, which will generally just lead to higher profitability for CCP, but for the overall Eve economy.

      February 14, 2014 at 22:17 Reply
      1. POCO Tax Rates

        Just a guess here, since I’m a null dweller – but if it was me, I would setup my POCOs with high tax rates so that I could control the planets and minimize competition, both in terms of quantities of PI available in local markets, as well as my resources on the planets drying up instantly because some noobswarm is PI raping my planets.

        I’m sure there are people that are only interested in generating revenue from the POCO – but strategic thinkers may have thought to use it as economic warfare.

        February 15, 2014 at 02:49 Reply
    2. Jevous Encule

      Same here. I’m sticking to Eve atm only until Elite comes out. I do not think I will be coming back.

      February 15, 2014 at 20:21 Reply
  26. [RH-] BCPRO

    yeah i think eve has gotten to the point of needing not a PVP free zone but a way to scale down the non concentual PVP. as funny as it is to gank a nub in hi sec mining a belt it often leads to people rage quitting where he could have been the next guy in charge of your major alliance SRP. I’m sure there will be the select hand full that never leave the “Safe Zone” but ultimately not everyone wants to do 0.0

    February 14, 2014 at 22:11 Reply
    1. Dirk MacGirk

      sure, create that. Safe zones aren’t a terrible idea. But what is a terrible idea are safe zones that allow players to make anything resembling “real isk”. Safe zones should be for new players trying to get a grasp on what happens outside of safe zones. Or for those hiding out. But neither group should be able to make money living there. The risk/reward trade offs are bad enough now between hisec, lowsec and null. You want a totally safe, pvp-free area, then you should only be able to play in there for the fun of it. Not because you can earn (much)

      February 14, 2014 at 22:22 Reply
      1. Guess

        your forgetting something, when your a complete newbie 1m isk seems like a lot, it’s kinda like coppers in other mmorpgs etc, and they have safe haven start areas for most newbies,.

        February 15, 2014 at 04:18 Reply
        1. [RH-] BCPRO

          yeah but even in the 1.0 “safe haven” you can still get ganked to crap

          February 16, 2014 at 19:58 Reply
      2. [RH-] BCPRO

        i completely agree the “safezones” should max out at level 3 / 4 mission isk making, no incursions or faction drops. i’m a big fan of the duel system ccp as created as well

        February 16, 2014 at 19:58 Reply
  27. frag MOAR faggots

    At the end of the day, there are only two things the majority of the gaming market enjoys, afk mining/farming/looting or fragging faggots, the two pinnacles of this being something like farmville on one side and COD/BF4 on the other.

    EVE has the first pinnacle covered in spades but there is not nearly enough fragging of faggots. I understand the two are kind of mutually exclusive but maybe once a month CONCORD could malfunction at a random time for 24 hrs and null could put highsec to the sword.

    February 14, 2014 at 23:52 Reply
    1. Dirk MacGirk

      Kind of like The Purge?

      February 15, 2014 at 03:14 Reply
  28. WaKKO151

    Lets give the new guys free shit.
    This game doesn’t attract gamers. It attracts fanatics. We few, we proud few….
    Who went thru shit to get where we are and will trudge thru a river of the most foul smelling waste to get just one point on that shitty heron or sac a whole fleet to try for an archon.
    If New Players want to play the game, they simply have to be taught that they can be a viable fleet component right off the bat if they simply get these skills here…..
    And you know you who could help them……You could. And you will. Even if you don’t want to. When you kill someone they learn or quit. Thats the same with any game.
    There are games and then there is EvE Online.
    There are people who want to play EvE and then, there are those that actually play it.

    New players just have to decide who they want to be and do it. Not quit cause its hard. We play cause its hard. If it was easy why would we play!

    February 15, 2014 at 11:33 Reply
  29. Mar vel

    11 years of playing has seen a lot of changes for me within this game.

    Single combat no longer exists.
    Small gang combat is typically hard to organize due to risk / reward tradeoff.
    Numbers of pilots on the field means everything now.

    Basically it breaks down to either being part of the supply side or the demand side, where supply is research, manufacturing, logistics and market creation, and demand is PvP and combat operations. Neither of these professional tracks are easy to do solo.

    Solo play is mostly limited to missions, exploration, simple manufacturing and market manipulation. That makes it difficult to get jazzed about playing.

    Many of the professions that had potential have been extremely mismanaged by CCP. Research is the classic example. The T2 BPO lottery was a crucible of hate for players who were looking towards a better market economy.

    Nullsec is dominated by the corporation or alliance with the most active players and the most Capital ships (in that order). As a small corp, you have no chance of doing anything in Nullsec that won’t find you and your assets gang raped in short order. Put up a sm tower to do drug manufacturing – the local residents will mobilize their fleet of dreads and kill it in short order. That’s one minor example.

    Balance could mean terrible things for nullsec alliances. The only thing that would strike a blow to that facet of the game would be to allow deadly weaponry the be deployed that would make it extremely difficult to assault or overthrow a fixed position with a fleet of Capitals. That’s pretty unlikely to happen (where were the deployable gate guns CCP touted years ago?). Given that Titans and Super Capitals are the big kids on the block, it would require a more threatening ship class. Everyone has a Titan now, or a Super.

    Unless you’re into Capital blob-fests, nullsec isn’t likely to change, so have to agree with the OP that the future of Eve is Empire space and better content.

    February 17, 2014 at 23:53 Reply
  30. airwreckastunhem

    Get rid of system gates. Nuff said

    February 18, 2014 at 01:36 Reply
  31. airwreckastunhem

    Give it another decade. All these fools will start blaming CCP as to why the player base is stagnate. Some can’t see pass their illusion of grandeur, for now. Do you even pixel bro?

    February 18, 2014 at 01:49 Reply
  32. Snorkel

    Gonna have to go with ‘no’ on this one for the following reasons:

    Bigger isk faucets: anything that makes more for new players makes a LOT more for experienced players. We’re the ones who know what the ins and outs of the games are and how to exploit them.

    A ‘newbie’ sanctuary: this isn’t going to help like you think it will. First off, new players won’t become anywhere near proficient at this game without being exposed to more experienced players. The very players you prepose seperating them from. Your also closing off a huge portion of the market in terms of supply and demand. Sure it could be artificially propped up, but not in any way that would help new players in the long run. Lastly, players that want to harrass new players can still make a rash of throw-away trial accounts to plague the sanctuary.

    Buffing LVL 4’s: If you want more from your missions, do them in low or NPC null. There doesn’t need to be larger isk faucets in high sec. Although a bit of variety would be nice. As for good drops, there’s a reason you have to go to null for them. It’s called ‘risk vs reward’. If anywhere needs more help and incentives it’s low sec, not high sec.

    Mining: I totally agree that the current mining system sucks. It’s like walking on lego’s barefoot while giving yourself paper cuts while sweating lemon juice and salt. In general cycle times need to come WAY down on miners in general. Second, there needs to be LESS ore in empire. No one mines high volumes of low ends in null or even belts for that matter. There is literally metric TONS of ore in null that’s jngnored because of how easily it’s availible in high sec. And it’s not being mined by new players, it’s being mined by veterans with their army of alts and orca boosters who devours whole belts per hour. Remove all ore above score it’s from empire and lower the belt count to one per system max. Make the veteran miners move to low or null.

    February 18, 2014 at 04:55 Reply
  33. smr

    Get rid of concord; have navies defend their own space. Get rid of “low sec” – make it like high sec but with even longer/survivable navy response times. Make all of high-sec like faction wars: faction flippable, but with navy aid in 0.5+. Make the sec status dynamic. More anoms, less agents. The more anoms are farmed, the higher the sec status, the crappier the anoms. Start moving HS towards the sandbox, but in fun ways.

    Make the ship scanner capable of scanning down ships!
    Tengu X is somewhere on the far side of the solar system…. you warp to where you think you found it…now you’re within an AU, scan again, warp again, maybe you’re within 10000km, then 100km, etc., an interceptor or frig should eventually be able to land on top of a less maneuverable ship. Make align times and warp times twice as fast. Speed up the finding of pvp…

    February 20, 2014 at 06:19 Reply
  34. BarryFromEastEnders

    Get rid of bloggers and car salesmen.

    February 21, 2014 at 18:23 Reply

Leave a Reply