EN24 Network WTZ Forums HackNSmash.com EN24 Facebook EN24 Twitter Community
Comments

The following post was originally posted on the Against all Authorities forums:

Default HED-GP After Action Report
tl;dr – We lost HED, had great form up and really put our best foot forward here. We have a long war ahead of us but losing due to CCP is not a lost at all. Lets keep going, tighten up our defenses and fix issues before they bite us again.

So, we lost HED-GP. For those that were there, thank you for enduring an 8? hour trip through CCP Server and Programming Hell.

It was in every sense of the word a nightmare, however there are from where I sit an huge amount of positive things that came out of that fight.

I wanted to break down what happened, what our game plan is going forward, the positive things we are doing well and the issues we need to improve on.

The fight

Warfare in EVE is not unlike any other analogous you can think of in war. There is strategic planning, tactical implementation, unit and formation consideration and the list goes on.

HED was not the ideal place for such a fight. While a station system, its not of any great blow to our logistical chain to empire, it has historical but not military nor supply chain importance… but we wanted to defend it. And frankly I was extremely impressed with our numbers. At peak, we had 250 -A- + SCDOT (didn’t get an exact number) logged in to various fleets from sub-caps to titans. A great turn out.

Today’s fight in HED-GP we formed in our coalition:
1000 Sub-Capitals
700 Dreads
220 + Supers
100 + Titans

N3/PL formed:
350 Carriers
116 Supers
30 Titans
100? Sup-capitals

In order to make sure they had the system and their formation locked down in place, they formed super early. Hours and hours before the timer they were set up on the IHUB in HED-GP. In our belief that server issues of years gone by had been fixed and addressed, this seemed trivial and a waste of their time. In reality it became the reason for their victory, much to my surprise. Ill touch on this soon.

We arrived 1st with our sub-capitals and immediately began engaging both their small number of sub-caps and also a mobile jammer they put in place to prevent our capitals from cynoing in close. Due to max TiDi this alone took at least 30 mins, probably closer to an hour.

Once the jammer was down, our next move was to bridge in all Dread fleets, nearly on top of them and go to work on their carriers and the limited amount of dreads they brought in as the fight began.

However, fate and CCP’s limited server capabilities (for a fight of this magnitude) were not with us. Almost immediately I began hearing reports that dread pilots couldn’t online modules, were stuck in “warp tunnels” or just plain black screened trying to enter the system. Seeing the system at max TiDi before the dreads entered I guess I wasnt entirely surprised, I was fully expecting the server to go down.

However that didn’t happen. Server stability improvements did not translate to actual service to connecting clients.

Back years and years ago before TiDi the server worked on a 1st come, 1st serve basis. In reality what this meant was he who was on grid 1st, got the servers full attention and those who came in 2nd got nothing. TiDi was, I thought at least, the solution. Coupled with slowing down server time itself (1 second turns into 10 seconds in how long the server has to respond), I also had the impression that each client connecting to the server would be given equal (and random) chance to access system resources. What actually happened though makes it apparent to me that the issues of old are still very present in the server response. If you are on grid 1st, you are getting more server attention than those who come in last.

In short, our Dreads jumped into system and were left not only defenseless but unable to apply any damage.

Seeing this unfold we decided not to send any supers or titans on field, expecting them to run into the same issue. In another blow to our senses, the only thing that appeared TO be working was Titan DoomsDay effects, probably due to them already being on grid.

Our dreads couldn’t do any damage, they couldn’t turn on their tank and our sub-capitals were having a nearly impossible time to lock and shoot. The subcap fleet I was in with my main was only able to kill approx 4 sub-caps after the dreads entered, in a span of 6 hours.

What could we have done better?

- Well, now I know that in these huge timers we are either on field 1st or the fight has a very high chance not to go in our favor. 5 years ago this was a no brainer, but we fooled into thinking that the changes to server performance and programming eliminated these short comings.

- Dreads *need* to be dual DD tanked.

- We have to make sure we don’t lose POS’s in system like what happened in HED. To our surprise our allies and us lost 9 POS’s (out of 11 moons) before I caught the issue. Some took their POS’s down, others lost them to attacks. Either way not having a jammer POS to prevent the “Slow-Cat I-Win” button from entering cost us.

Going Forward

- Replace these dreads and aim for Naglafars. Just because the server couldn’t handle the load doesnt make this fleet ineffective. Alpha has and always will be king, plus we need to step up the number of dreads we can field regardless. This was a full SRP op so make sure that you request SRP for them.

- Keep up the great numbers. We can always improve, ideally 10% CTA participation on a regular basis and seeing 20% on major CTA’s from corps.

- Shore up our defenses. We need to stay on top of POS alerts, get them passed up from corps to the alliance leadership ASAP. We are working out a better automated solution, but always manually let us know.

- Pray that CCP find a solution to these issues. I’ve been playing for a long time and frankly the server situation today is no better then it was 7 years ago, except now we can have double the amount of players who can be disappointed.

Questions inbound.

Was there any benefit to our excessive sub capital force in HED being dominixes, or perhaps more reachingly, overwhelming sub capital strength whatsoever? A fleet we know adds to lag exponentially due to drone doctrines and the server stress they bring? Was there benefit to having 10x their subcap numbers and ballooning HED to its server max of just over 4000 characters?

Why weren’t dreads cynoed into a deep safe and warped in? Even if we’d moved half the subcaps in we’d have had easy superiority to clear tackle and was there not historic precedent (PL in Y-N or CVA v. AAA 2009) to know that such a move would be disastrous? Essentially why commit to an act that has only ended in failure?

Is there any clear benefit to dominixes over maelstroms or any other non drone based long range doctrines during this type of battle? Drones assisted to bliss were rarely firing and it seems likely individual pilots may have more success in a doctrine not requiring so much from the server in an already stressed environment.

Are our allies still committed to this fight? Oftentimes such disastrous defeats see the losers go into a demoralized slump and fairweather friends bugger off. Essentially, was this our 49-U6U?

Answers
– Yes, there is a ton of benefits to having superior sub-cap numbers. You control the battlefield with sub-caps and also provide protection for capitals. No, we shouldn’t based our doctrines on what the server can handle as that is entirely outside of control and never a static number or situation.

- In hindsight we could have cynoed in our capitals at a safe 1st and warped them in. I wasnt running a dread fleet at the time, but I think I would have cynoed them in at zero before knowing now how the server reacted.

- The reasons for the Domi fleet are many. Ill be straight up.

1 – We believe Drone assist is a broken mechanic and having 1 person controlling the damage output of 249 others, directly, is not in the best interests of EVE. Its the coalition’s goal to (ab)use this mechanic so that CCP wakes up and fixes it… Maybe they will fix carriers having endless amounts of sentries on hand, while battleships are limited to at best 3 flights.

2 – A single person can control the damage output of 249 others. No misfires, misclicks, killmail whoring etc. That is pretty powerful.

3 – Domi’s put out 2.1k Alpha every 4 secs vs 6k alpha every 14 seconds for Maelstroms. I am a huge Maelstrom fan and due to the sentry drone’s weakness to bombs I am partial to the doctrine, but with current game mechanics the Domi is pretty powerful. However as N3 found out, kill the drone assignee and its game over.

4 – I can’t speak for everyone, but myself personally I am even more motivated. We had a legitimate opportunity for victory snatched away by an issue way outside of our ability to mitigate or prepare for. If the server was fine and we died in a fire there would be need for serious introspection, but we are currently unable to tell if an Alpha Dread + Domi doctrine is as effective as we hope it will be.

Feel free to discuss this in the comment section below!

  • wtb

    Inb4 -A- SOV becomes another part of N3 renter space.

  • test bro

    QQ moar

  • Concerned Citizen

    I’m just disappointed I did not see more AAA & Friends die. LMFAO. Was an interesting fight.

  • Boliano

    N3/PL had over 120 titans.

  • russiantanker

    The key to managing large scale “fat” client-server applications is having an architecture that can “divide and conquor”. I’m sure CCP knows exactly where their bottle neck lies. You take that process and turn it into a broker that spawns multiple slave processes to shift the work. In a low-volume system that would be less than ideal, but once you hit a certain load threshold (perhaps based on tidi detection), you push into “broker” mode so the offending process can keep up under tidi. If 10% tidi actually worked at 10% it would be bearable. What I experienced in HED was that 10% tidi wasn’t really 10% tidi. It was more like 0.1% tidi. I have been developing and supporting such systems for 20 years and our core processes are technically single-threaded, but you can essentially make them multi-threaded by shifting more and more to N-Tier client server as opposed to 2-Tier. They already do things like this for logins, etc. so it’s not a huge paradigm shift for the development staff.

    A quick kill for them would be to have virtual servers available for node reinforcement. I believe it was CCP that tweeted the node had 14GB of memory at 100% utilization. Based on that statement, I would guess they are using strictly physical servers. When they reinforce a node, they could easily create a 32 or 64 GB virtual node. 14GB is nothing. I suspect the node was not only CPU bound but also memory bound and thrashing like mad to disk. That is likely when 10% tidi really turnns to 0.1% tidi and the game becomes unplayable.

    • erratic1212

      If the system is running out of physical ram, that would be the epic of incompetence. I really doubt that is happening. But if it is, they need to do some serious IT firing. It’s easy to hit Ctrl-Alt-Del and Task Manager and check ram usage. From what I’ve heard they are using windows server, which I’m not to sure that is the best choice.

      I’d think a better fix would be rewrite of code to C / C++ for critical routines, and they could use C# for the rest if they really feel the need.

      If that doesn’t do it, they need to setup instancing. Or better yet, find a way to break up these big coalitions, but that may be impossible since they are formed out of game mechanics.

      • no.

        CCP has spelled out in detail what they need to due to increase server performance, how mush it would cost, and why they are too cheap to do it in several dev posts over the last 5 years, go read them and then come back and edit your post.

  • true

    Everybody they known if server works fine win CFC/RUS side.

    I like this comments

    “Methylated Spirit

    I absolutely love how N3/PL posters are blaming CFC/RUS for the tidi etc, saying they shouldnt jump ships into a busy system. After months of flaming them for not committing to fights. If your grand plan is to fill a system to breaking point so that the opposition cannot engage you, this is an exploit and surely a sign of desperation.You complain about fighting under cyno jammers, and when your own side removes that mechanic, you complain that the enemy has too many ships. Grow the fuck up, I hope you get stuffed back to faction warfare for your whiny assed bitching.”

    • russiantanker

      “Everybody they known if server works fine win CFC/RUS side.”

      Probably not. It would have turned into a DPS race. There were a lot of N3/PL supers in system. Both sides would lose caps, but it would have come down to whether SCs and titans could clear dreads off the field fast enough. Based on the KMs, many of the dreads couldn’t have tanked even a single DD even with hardeners active. Getting 500 noobs into dreads is different than getting 500 well-skilled noobs into dreads. Just because you can sit in a dread and fire guns doesn’t mean you should be flying it.

      • meh

        500 dread + 1000 domis…. I’m missing the part where 150 supers are going to be able to out DPS that mass of ships with guns, with bombers and DD’s that take a set long time to cycle before 10% TiDi being thrown into the mix.

    • Scott L

      Could you be a little more butthurt please, I don’t think everyone noticed yet….

    • GG

      They shouldn’t have jumpped onto a loaded grid, it’s not like the N3 fleet was going anywhere. They could have easly got the dreads in, turned on thier tanks, and warped in to a snipe point. What they did was stupid only because there was a much safer way of doing it.

      • lol

        After all your crying about CFC not willing to use anything without cyno jammers its kinda funny to read in all battlereports the second they logged in dreads you were tripping over yourselves to deploy a mobile jammer lol, so who’s really scared the dude who brought the dreads? or the guy who dared him for weeks to do it and then when he starts to tries to bring them does his best to prevent it. You guys laughed at the “Dread hammer” right up until it got picked up, then you realized even you needed to fear that thing and it will be back.

        • LTP

          Mobile jammer = tactical asset. Oh yeah I’m talking to a CFC sheep, tactics are waaay over their heads.

          We haven’t been crying we have been taunting you. These are as any intelligent human knows are two different things.

          We are still not scared of your “Dread Hammer” or whatever you want to call it. Shit man I can smell the butt hurt from here.

          You have been crying about slowcats since this started. Nerf Nerf Nerf cry cry cry.

          • lol wut?

            Cyno jammers are for cowards mobile jammers are for pros… got it, any other tired cliche BS you got lying around?

        • Pilious

          Your hammer seems to be broken maybe you need to try a super carrier hammer next and see how that works for you.

        • Mike

          Mobile jammer don’t stop anyone from jumping into system, are you actually mad that they didn’t just let you jump in at perfect range? Besides CFC killed them all, and jumped into a loaded grid, and that is what was what ended up getting them all killed. N3 almost did CFC a favor as it turns out.

          • lol

            You’re looking right past my point because you think I’m in the CFC, I’m not and I haven’t been in eve for several years due to :CCP:, back to the point.

            For MONTHS every one that is fighting CFC has been calling them cowards and daring them to drop caps and the second they go to drop caps you do you best to avoid having them dropped on you with jammers. Its the ultimate irony to an observer to watch PL deploy something to prevent a cyno jump after daring the goon to cyno in the caps for so long :)

            I seem to remember an old tired cliche about getting what you wished for…

    • This guy

      You sir are a fucking moron. Cry some more about your loss of pixels.

      The N3 fleet didn’t “fill the sys..” ah fuck this guy he’s not worth my time.

  • wlolol

    hey, lets deploy 5k drones i think only PL3 drones produce lag

  • orly?

    In the big subcap brawl in 6VDT the same thing happened. TEST n Friends Forces jumped into (admittedly larger) fleets waiting for them and so suffered all the usual penalties and, of course this was on a heavily reinforced node (Jita ubernode supposedly).

    Reinforcement waves from BOTH sides reported some of the same things (heard one side in coms read about the other side later).

    A n CFC Pals showed up – if you can’t give props for that well… I’ve got nothing for you. Sure, maybe they should be nervous about the implications but the ones who should be really anxious is CCP.

    Best pay attention, CCP. THIS is the kind of fight we need to have. The minute ANY side is saying ‘lets use server latency to our advantage’ there’s a BIG problem.

    • Dirty Rotten Sneaky Bastard

      CFC has been doing that for years.

      • orly?

        This isn’t about taking a side, blaming someone, blaming the other guy… that is just plain nonsense. It really is like watching a pack of five-year-olds pointing at each other yelling ‘he started it’. If that’s all the farther you can see, please stop here.

        If you can see just slightly beyond that, you’ll understand that the problem is the (apparent) inability to have such a fight successfully hosted. These fights used to be the exception. I’ve been around a while from BoB, AAA, CFC, O.NC, DRF, IRC and a few more TLAs I might not be so willing to admit to. Everyone’s wrong. Everyone’s right. Pick your day and you can lay blame wherever you want it.

        The TRUTH that remains is EVERY SINGLE DAY we all play in the same yard. These massive fights weren’t always so massive, nor did we all have so many SP to load when entering a system.

        The QUESTION that remains is -have we outgrown the system capacity / infrastructure as they exist today. The answer seems obvious…

        • CCP lover

          very obvious. I was there with a lolz test bomber fleet and we were totally useless doing anything. Huge confusion and annoyance from “did my warp, cloak command go thru, etc.” with all effects turned off and settings to lowest it still plays extremely shitty with freezing, stuttering, overview issues, u name it. Unplayable. there is no way in hell any true victory can be claimed from either party because the game cant handle the server load and penalizes anyone to a degree u sit hours on end hoping u die quickly to GTFO.

  • Keef James

    I heard from a reliable source that it was Alphastarpilot who gave the order to jump in the dreads.

    • Pilious

      Denied he was not awake when this started I was chatting with him and he told me while we killed the hostiles caps he was happy as hell he had nothing to do with this cluster fuck of a fight for the CFC and Rus side.

  • N3 grunt

    Sorry, but these numbers a nonsense. Just look the the KM of the I-Hub. There are 980 pilots on it. And I saw a DScan with over 450 Archons. So -A- learned a lot from Mittens regarding spinning the truth.

  • Duval

    I came a few times from all these tears.

    • CfuckingC

      You need to grow up and try to get laid instead…

  • Let the Delusion go on

    Wow these guys really are deluded. RUS has never had a snow balls chance in hell of winning in this war. They are fighting EvEs best pilots with EvEs worst pilots but who am I to put them straight? Im glad the delusion will continue. Providing us with more of EvEs most historic and astounding victories.

    • delusions will kill you

      According to PL. leaders if the server had not shit itself in the way that it did and stayed steady enough for a two way fight you would have been completely and totally destroyed so….

      • N3 will kill you

        Your paraphrasing there a bit. The reality is that no amount of debate will ever give us a solid concrete answer to what could have happened. In the end the reality we have is what happened. So…go write a movie or something about alternate timelines it will do just as much good.

        • no

          We played in traffic and didn’t get run over therefore we will never get hit while playing in traffic.

        • nc. guy

          If server hadnt been oagged that bad itbwould have been a slug fest with both sides losing huge amounts of caps. And eould uave been epic fun but cfc screwed that up wiyh turds in 1000 sub caps.

    • Eve’s best pilots

      LOLOLOLOLOL

      None who lives in nullsec are anything remotely close to “eve’s best pilots”, this comming from a long time null-sec pvper.

  • Sold

    Typical RUS bloc play. Don’t bother to show up until its too late. gg -A-.

  • David

    Reading the comments and articles here vs. on the Mittani, it’s pretty impressive how much both seem to be deluded in their bias towards one side. On The Mittani, you’d swear it was a completely unexpected server problem that caused the entire issue, their losses weren’t that bad, and it’s all N3/PL/CCP’s fault. Here, apparently, the fight was lost because RUS and CFC are morons and bad players, and the clearly superior N3/PL toons carried the day and they deserved to win with almost no casualties.

    Would be nice if someone would hit it in the middle, note that CFC+RUS were morons for not taking server lag into account when they drop 1000 drone assist BS onto grid, THEN follow up with hundreds of capitals onto the same grid, N3 drastically underestimated the forces CFC and RUS were deploying, and, had the server not crapped out, it would have been immensely heavy casualties on both sides (whoever won, though I’ll be honest I think N3 still would have taken the field… with *much* higher casualties). The biggest losers in this entire debacle were the 4000 players who got to sit twiddling their thumbs for hours in what’s supposed to be a “fun” game.

    • Chris

      Hey I was productive during the fight.

      I finished grinding a new tank in WoT :)

      • GloryDayz

        LOL that’s what I was doing while loading the system as well. I wanted to ask in every match “Hey who here’s waiting to load HED?”

    • adopt

      There is nothing fun about EVE.

    • N3 Grunt

      And that was the best comment yet. Nicely summed up, as an N3 grunt I certainly don’t feel like a winner. I feel like a loser staring at ugly slow motion graphics all day insted of enjoying a beautiful Saturday. Fuck this dumb game.

    • Satan

      Problem is your assuming N3 didn’t know what CFC/Rus had, which is silly. We knew exactly what they had, we had spies/eyes in every one of their fleets and had the fleet breakdown for each. We usually know these things before our enemies FC’s do.

      Now knowing that, do you think we would NOT have setup the wrecking ball? We were there for a fight, we wanted the fight, many of us have been playing EvE off and on for 10+ years, this is the fight we have been waiting for. My corp re-subed titan accounts that have not been active since the last time we used them to blap CFC nerds in the north till the great tracking nerf. And those didn’t even get a chance to be used cause we kept numbers to a minimal due to lag.

      Guess what I’m trying to say is we knew exactly what they had, the reason people are saying CFC/RUS are idiots for doing what they did is because they are. Just read the log, read all chat logs where the CFC/Rus FC’s interact, they always assume they can crash the node to keep losses to a min. Unfortunately for them CCP seems to have fixed that issue, and dropping in hundreds/thousands of nerds to intentionally crash nodes is not going to work anymore. The last couple of node crashes saved CFC/Rus caps, which everyone inside N3 knew. The CFC/Rus posting team has been working on overtime make it seem like the opposite, but that simply is not true

    • Scott L

      The bottom line is;
      One side was smart enough to get into system early.
      One side had balls enough to put their Super assets on field, regardless of the danger.
      One side uses Supers on a regular basis, and is generally pretty coordinated with them.

      I don’t like the current EvE tidi mechanics anymore than anyone else, but the fact is, mistakes were made on a number of levels, all contributing to a relative turkey shoot.

    • erratic1212

      They did take server lag into account.

      They were “TRYing” to crash the server.

  • Jevous Encule

    The part where the guy says he is “even more motivated.” That is fucking funny!

  • Yaman

    It’s funny that my post to Mittani’s article was removed so I will post it here.

    CFC and RUS caused the lag fest by sending in the large amount of sub caps beforehand. They complain about drone triggering and yell that there is no counter to our fleets which is absurd as you bring capital ships to fight our Wrecking Ball fleet (inspired by Miley Cyrus or Molle swinging from a tire swing naked). CFC / RUS jumps in several hundred more ships into an already lag fest of sub caps, you’re going to get the issues everyone experienced. How about growing a pair of balls and bring the capital fight to our capital fleet and let’s get the show underway. Until then, quit complaining about this/that and put your capital fleet on the field and let’s go. I can almost with most certainty say it won’t be N3 / PL stepping down from the fight.

  • asdf

    Yes, Goon pets, keep whining about drone assist. When they finally remove it the only result will be that your pilots are too incompetent to manually fire at the correct primary whereas the other side won’t have any difficulty doing so.

  • John Doe

    My god, so many factual errors I wouldn’t even know where to begin. That guy seems to be real desperate to pull crap outta his ass like that.

  • lecorrecto

    two coalitions, each with 3000-5000 “active” players, wtf did you think would happen on a weekend timer? Its not NC/N3/PL or CFC, its just the amount of players. Every important timer this will happen, especially if close to empire space. That bright red dot on the map attracts scrubs like moths from all sectors of low and high sec. Fights will be won by who is set up in the system first.

    Its a problem that will resolve itself, when pilots are so pissed off they don’t bother logging in for the timers anymore.

    • PL cyno alt

      cfc will never bring out their caps because they know that even if they won their cap fleet would lose so many of their caps that provi or somebody would rush in and take them out in their weakened state

      • umm??

        “cfc will never bring out their caps”

        So where did all the loss mails for CFC dreads come from pray tell?

      • Forgive__Me

        ‘even if they won their cap fleet would lose so many of their caps that provi or somebody would rush in and take them out in their weakened state’

        Yea … because caps/supers was always CFC’s weapon … oh wait

    • erratic1212

      N3/PL didn’t bring all their forces in system, leaving plenty of room for CFC. They only had 900 in system.

      It was CFC dropping 2700 and trying to crash the node that fuked them.

      They got exactly what they were trying to dish out with a node crash.

      Gratz for CFC for shoving it up their own ass.

      • Demosthenez

        CCP were ready for the shitty goon tactics crashing nodes this time methinks.

        • Plusoneccp

          Agreed, I think people made noise after that DBRD bullshit.

  • DGMT vet

    Do let me get this straight, -A- is complaining that N3 and allies did to them what -A- did to Provi in the battle of DGMT back in 2010. Karma sucks, hope more to come, and stay dead this time…

    • asdf

      They won’t stay dead, since they learned from RA the strategy of sucking one dick after another in order to stick around.

  • niggherhugger

    cry more please ;)

    • Hian

      *hugs back*

  • DubbaYooArr

    Some gems from the AAA Reaction:

    “1 – We believe Drone assist is a broken mechanic and having 1 person
    controlling the damage output of 249 others, directly, is not in the
    best interests of EVE. Its the coalition’s goal to (ab)use this mechanic
    so that CCP wakes up and fixes it… Maybe they will fix carriers having
    endless amounts of sentries on hand, while battleships are limited to at
    best 3 flights.

    Cant stand the claim of ‘abusing for eve’s sake’ argument over drone
    assist. Also, carriers being CARRIERS should have a drone bay
    significantly larger than domis. Complaining about carrier drones/drone
    assist while simultaneously intentionally bringing as many drones/drone
    assist boats as possible is … … ….

    Stating:

    “4 – I can’t speak for everyone, but myself personally I am even more motivated. We had a legitimate opportunity for victory snatched away by an issue way outside of our ability to mitigate or prepare for.”

    While also saying:

    “-We have to make sure we don’t lose POS’s in system like what happened
    in HED. To our surprise our allies and us lost 9 POS’s (out of 11 moons)
    before I caught the issue. Some took their POS’s down, others lost them
    to attacks. Either way not having a jammer POS to prevent the “Slow-Cat
    I-Win” button from entering cost us.”

    …. i’d say losing all the POSes in system, not having a jammer up, and
    not getting there first are all issues very much in the control of
    AAA/Coalition that all contributed very much to their defeat.

    Proceeding to dump dreads into system despite reports of deathly
    lag/server issues while expecting that things couldnt go THAT bad bc
    node/server would just crash is retarded and they deserved to die by
    fire for relying on such tactics.

    “Seeing the system at max TiDi before the dreads entered I guess I wasnt
    entirely surprised, I was fully expecting the server to go down.
    However that didn’t happen.. In short, our Dreads jumped into system and
    were left not only defenseless but unable to apply any damage.”

    and Ending with this

    “- Pray that CCP find a solution to these issues. I’ve been playing for a
    long time and frankly the server situation today is no better then it
    was 7 years ago, except now we can have double the amount of players who
    can be disappointed.”

    Acknowledging that CCP servers have improved to allow double the amount
    of players in system for battle while at the same time complaining CCP
    servers are no better than they were 7 years ago. Idiotic – especially
    considering it was previously stated that AAA basically was relying on
    the node crashing to mitigate losses in the event that things went
    wrong. Knowing server capabilities, knowingly engaging in a battle that
    will push the servers beyond their capabilities, strategically planning
    on servers to crash because of their lack of capability as a loss
    mitigation tactic, and complaining about the lack of a crash and blaming
    CCP all at once – :mindblown:

    • PL is scared

      Its normal PL must use exploit because shakes pants.They known if CFC got many dreads + rest coaliton lost this shit fleet.That whay use this tactics.

      Everybody they known this rest is propaganda.

      • Alexandra Gianturco

        we’re sacred indeed: that’s why we murder your alliance again, and again, and again.

        • you say one thing but……

          If you’re not scared why was there a mobile Cyno jammer deployed?

          Did it maybe go more like:

          they have dreads
          really? how many?
          500 +
          quick someone get a jammer up.

          • Ur Stupid

            Tactics, tactics my friend.

          • hehe

            hehe PL kids cry

          • Kadeshi Grunt

            It’s called strategy. The jammer forced your sub caps to jump then engage cutting down your forces significantly. Then when you dumbasses jumped dreads on zero. They had no cover and died. CRY MORE ,GOON TEARS BEST TEARS

          • stupidrussians

            500 dreads oh no not like we had 575 archons, 150 dreads, 200 supesr, 70 titans or anything sitting there with more on standby or anything

      • erratic1212

        lol, goon tears

      • Demosthenez

        Confirming goons are shit

      • yoyoyoyoeastsidewestside

        Google translate is NOT your friend, comradski.

  • Washi_Meisei

    Oh the tears -A-

    Just admit it…….. YOU FUCKED UP! Stop the whining that you lost.

    1st mistake screwing up the POS’s in system
    2nd mistake. allying with the CFC.
    3rd mistake listening to the CFC with their silly domi fleet. Jumping into the system and trying to hit the mobile cyno jammers.
    4th mistake trying to drop capitals on top of the capital fleet there, instead of hitting the SBU’s
    ONLY an idiot would not expect lag when dropping another 1000 people in a system already with 2800 people there.

    The node didn’t crash like the goons planned on. CCP did a great job in keeping the node and server up. And if it did crash goons/CFC would be whining that it crashed. Now they are whining that it didn’t crash. ENOUGH is ENOUGH. Quit the whining, and fight. Since you can’t out blob N3 with cheap ass T1 stuff. Looks like CFC members might want to actually start training their so called pvp characters instead of their ratting characters.
    Drones don’t need to be nerfed. Carriers don’t need to be nerfed. CFC just need to learn how to fit ships and how to actually PVP with out 5 to 1 odds.

    Anyone noticed when goons 1st stated that the CFC was going to join in this war as a ‘3rd party’ “that CFC members should not be looking for the Rus coalition being set blue any time soon”.?
    Now they are blue, and following orders from the CFC.

    • erratic1212

      CFC needs to be destroyed. They will never lrn2play.

      • Washi_Meisei

        aye

    • details

      They only really made one mistake: “screwing up the POS’s in system” Everything else that happened was a symptom of that mistake, without that fuck up there is a pos is system they can cyno jam from and the slowcats and supers never make the field.

      • Washi_Meisei

        Yeah losing the POS’s in the system was funny.
        I laughed when they decided to jump onto the N3/PL fleet instead of 1 of the 2 SBU’s. They only needed to pop 1 of them to save the system.

    • Dirk MacGirk

      Washi – yes, CFC fleets use lower-quality ships in bigger numbers. BUT, what would have been the outcome on the server if CFC/RUS had put together the identical setup to N3PL? Would it have held with that many carriers and drones rather than Domis and Dreads? That’s the point here. An exact duplication would have likely burned the server as well. Basically that is what happened. 1,000 Domis worth of drones is equal to 500 carriers worth of drones. Throw in the Dreads on the one side, titans and supers on the other and the server load was pretty similar in terms of ships and drones.

      Neither side should be happy it went the way it did and should be fighting together out of game to get CCP to get their shit right. You can say it was dumb to jump into a system already in high TiDi. But what is the alternative? Avoid all fights where the other side is already in place in large enough numbers? Doesn’t sound like gudfites to me.

  • Bad spin, best spin

    So let me get this straight, you apparently had 700 dreads,
    220 supers and 100 titans but decided to jump in the 1000 subs and then only
    half the dreads?

    Why not just drop all the supers and dreads at once, without
    the subs and massacre the entire NC./PL super fleet without lag?

    Oh right, cause you lying, silly me lol

    • N3tearsbesttears

      Because 1000 capitals totally doesn’t fuck the server more than 1000 subcaps, amirite?

      • Anhenka

        Actually yeah. A dread likely has a lower impact on server load once in the system than a sentry dominix or sentry carrier. Similar impact when jumping in though, which is where the majority of the issues came from as soul crushing lag occurred during the initial load.

  • Dumb dumb head

    Maelstrom alpha is over 10k

  • chzy

    I really love it how although N3/PL have nothing to whine and bitch about, the tears still manage to flow regardless. Cry on bitches!

    • erratic1212

      goon tears best tears

      • chzy

        Tears are tears mate, and yours are just as delicious as any other other ;)

      • yoyoyoyoeastsidewestside

        CFC+RUS forum crying after HED: good tears.

  • Make Sense

    if -A- should have use there heads, this shame would have not happen, its so simple RUSRUS should blue N3PL and help them kill CFC im pretty sure N3PL would have give them lotsa regions specially in the North, prolly in Fountain and Delve, its not too late to negociate RUSRUS do it now bwfore its to late, you guys know you cant beat N3PL at this moment specially now that you guys lost a bunch of capitals, but if you blue N3PL there’s a pretty strong chance that you guys RUSRUS + N3PL could burn CFC easily in there home regions make it a 3 way Front or prolly 4 front with EMP + Test…… CFC will be easily burn…

    • erratic1212

      CFC burns you will see more crying than the last 10 years of this game.

      • -cfc- is shit

        that is what we want. cfc tears best tears

    • asdf

      Nope, RUS wants to staple themselves to the CFC corpse as it gets put into the ground, because that makes sense.

      • Chris

        Its in their destiny to constantly die. Its only they attach themselves to the one next in line.

        • asdf

          No, RUS chose a fate worse than death: guzzling down Mitten’s hot baby yogurt.

      • Herp McDerp

        Thats because they know CFC have been at the top of the food chain for many years and that will no doubt continue regardless if they are ever pushed out of the north. The opposition will be the ones most hardest hit in a all or nothing war.
        If it wasn’t for all these feckin null behind-the-door agreements PLNC. would have been squashed already.

        • Robo

          Cry more, if PL/NCdot didn’t have a coalition fighting with them against the rest of eve aka Rus/ cfc biggest blob of course they would be squashed already.
          But since N3/PL are only outnumbered 2:1 they be raping your ass hole you pathetic pisstard.

        • yoyoyoyoeastsidewestside

          Jan 18, HED-GP, your salty tears taste good, need more.

    • TEST….lol

      I find it funny you guys still view TEST as having an impact besides leaving allies that stole from them out to hang at inopportune times. Like when their dread fleet is tackled.

    • chzy

      RusRus doesn’t care about sov, its why they’re called Stainwagon and not Catchwagon. Besides, all Russian alliances that join with N3/PL tend to end up with a knife in their back.

      • anonymous

        Pre-emptive didn’t want that space anyway?

      • truth

        it was -a- who stabbed all their past allies in the back

      • Robo

        Red Alliance were dumb fucks and tried stabbing another Rus alliance in the back within N3.
        As alliances go, those within N3 are far more trust worthy than many Rus/cfc alliances.
        Solar for example, who the fuck would trust them, they help nobody but them selves.

      • Kweetniet

        AAA: commit to Max2 campaign with IT, send only 1 hac fleet and went home after whelping it to a blob. When home disgruntled and seeing IT still up north; they decided to send roams into Delve and harass logistics there.

        When Catch was in trouble, they begged Molle+IT for help, they didn’t get it, in response Catch was overrun by IT looking for payback.

        Then Solar: Ncdot is in a fight with CFC, winning good fights although outnumbered, CFC numbers plummeting when frustrated, Solar decide to open a 2nd front to take moons in Vale and Geminate thinking Ncdot is too occupied in Tribute to respond. Instead of helping they offered Mittani to help him.

        This backfired in Ncdot evaccing Tribute after AU tz was burned, and they burned Solar to the ground, twice.

        Red Alliance: although blue with ‘friends’ they love to shoot them, claiming over view bugs. (bot fails?)

        Result : do not trust Russian entities, they are thiefs, and would sell their own mothers for some potatoes. So setting them blue does not mean anything, they can not be trusted.

        • Guess

          “Then Solar: Ncdot is in a fight with CFC, winning good fights although
          outnumbered, CFC numbers plummeting when frustrated, Solar LEADER in his stupidity, ignorange, greed and arrogance, decide to
          open a 2nd front to take moons in Vale and Geminate thinking Ncdot is
          too occupied in Tribute to respond. Instead of helping they offered
          Mittani to help him.”

          and helping mits is exactly why they lost a VERY large chunk of their blues, originally their blues were expecting to help NC. etc against the goons and when the orders came thought to shoot NC. there was mass confusion, disbelief and anger with chunks of them either outright going over to NC. side, or the lack of participation on behalf of their blues,in refusal to help CFC directly or indirectly, that was the straw which finaly broke the camel’s back, never mind the “awox” incidents of solar pilots leading blues who were neuts to some of solars blues hunting their blues (example members of solar scanning down their blues for gypsy band to shoot, being careful to never appear on the KMs as a way of trying to avoid it being provable, and I know friends who were out there at the time who being tired of the practice wanted to shoot and pod said solar pilots who were awoxing like that but being told by their alliance leaderships if they did that they would become KOS)

      • n3

        the only russian alliance ever ‘stabbed in the back’ or anything remotely similiar to that is Red alliance.. if you want to call the soco -a- for a russian alliance (they werent, they had a large russian core, but atleast as many non russians) But we are allies with Darkspawn (or whatstheirnamenow) and Legion of XXdeathXX and neither of thoose have been stabbed in the back

  • -_-

    In translation
    “N3/PL formed under 500 caps (mostly carriers) and roughly one hundred sub caps, we formed over 1000 caps mostly dreads and still felt the need to throw in 1000 subcaps mostly drone assist domis that we bitch about soo much. Due to our stupidity breaking every possible rule in eve for reducing server lag, we get our butts handed to us… again….. but its still ccp’s fault coz drone assist is OP and because were too stupid to get our already overwhelming force to a dead space pocket and not bridge in on top of the enemy.”
    OOO and “6k alpha every 14 seconds for Maelstroms” LOL

    • Michael

      Correction PL/N3 had about 800/900 caps on field at the start. Don’t believe the underhype from cfc/rusrus. There were 4 full fleets of our caps alone and more trying to get in. If this fight had actually happened it would have been bloody on both sides. The fight went the way it did because they brought a knife to a gun fight.

      • -_-

        shhhh, the under hype makes them seem even more pathetic.

        • BS

          Lol bunch of f1 monkeys excited how they owned other monkeys by bloobing and using server crash. No brain no pain as they say. So pathetic :P

      • lols

        Confirmed there were 4 full fleets of caps and a fifth was forming. How do I know? Cause I was fucking there.

        • dirk

          5 full fleets for such a big coalition like PL/NC/N3 ???

          not really good numbers, hopefully CCP starts to massively increase the servers and get rid of all the meta gameing like “be the first on the grid to rule all cap fights”.

          • N3Fanbud

            Did you even read the shit you are responding to? He said five fleets full of capitals. That not includes the other mostly subcap fleets we ran that day.

            Moron.

          • lols

            Learn to fucking read you derp. I said 4 FULL FLEET OF CAPS, OF CAPS STUPID, CAPS … C …. A …. P …. S. And a fifth one was forming …

            Do you even have any fucking clue how many shit was about to rain down on you dudes???

          • dirk

            i know and i talked only about caps. maybe i should write next time 5 full cap fleets of alts ? to be honest, everybody has some cap alts in these days so yeah, 5 cap fleets is still no big number for such a big coalition.

            it is no secret that you can divide both sides fleet numbers by 2 to get the number of real players. so, yeah ….

  • no name

    Every one saying rus should rus and pl/n3 should go after cfc but from the war n3 and solar had n3 toke no prisoners and all the assets to this day they still sit in staion that that only a holding corp gas docking rights to and pl has no interest in giving it back now that renting empire is under no theat of cfc invasion

  • Right to defend

    I honestly dont understand why people play in those lag fests. Why not stick to small gangs where you can have fluid fun? 8 hours to stare at slide shows? You lot are beyond crazy.

    • bigbonedbobby

      its about isk,ccp has nerfed income away so ppl go to null or whs to earn it,ths is what isk sinks does the game while nerfing highsec income,you cant herd everyone into the same part of the game with a reward system and then be baffled when it has negative effects.

      • lyc

        Wait, are you saying that people go to nullsec to rat because it is no longer worth it to be in highsec lowsec or wormhole and that is why we got blopping?

        Uhm, reality check to BigBonedBobby please

        • Ur Stupid

          “its about isk,ccp has nerfed income away so ppl go to null or whs to earn it”
          Please read properly next time.

      • Kadeshi Grunt

        I would refine the point that high sec Income nerfs have driven more people to null for ratting and Isk making opportunities which In turn increases the size of the playebase In each coalition In that I agree it contributes to the blob issue. But is not the main reason for it. Put simply numbers win wars unless you can gain some other strategic advantage like supercapital cover

    • Noisrevbus

      It’s because it’s one of the very few places left where you can have an impact on the game.

      I’ll exaggerate my cynicism here a tad to prove a point, but the gist of it is true:

      It simply gets tiresome dumpstering frigate or cruiser gang efter frigate and cruiser gang. When you kill them they lose nothing and when you kill them you gain nothing of value. Similarily, you risk nothing – you can make the worst possible tactical descision in a fight and there is no ingame repercussion. The worst thing you may end up with is some tiny-dicked space samurai yelling at you that you did something stupid (which you of course already know you did), or belittling you fitting or ship choice or w/e. The game itself though, does not punish or reward your actions and that is boring as fuck.

      Not to say that big blob political life does a much better job at it, but there is at least the added dimension of people crying over nameplates in space and there are still groups utilizing ships that have an associated cost (Supers) – that are sufficiently “better” for that cost and as such both challenging and rewarding (loot, loss) to kill.

      That’s why I would much rather hotdrop some fished-out Nyx, than dumpstering yet another 20-man gang of Thoraxes that fly unsupported because Logis and EW are deemed unsportsmanlike by the same guy who will grizzle his teeth at every mistake you make. Then again, he does that because that’s the only competetive ounce left to bark about in that environment – you fight for nothing else. No other reward.

      The exception to this of course is that small-gang groups that still take risks and fly expensive ships (RnK, Shadow C, TRI, Snuff, one or two FW-groups, what’s left of Outbreak and Genos etc.) – but they are so few left now that it’s extremely difficult for them to sustain themselves with content. For the rare good fight they get every other month, they have to wade through the sewage of dumpstering Tech I crap the other 29 days a month. It’s simply not worth it.

  • Opmaster

    what a bullshit mail

  • ooooooh cmere candycooooooorn

    Where’s this “candycorn online” dude at. I’ve got a load of smug to dumpster on him v0v.

    • N3Fanbud

      guess he got his RL sorted again, so he don’t need us nerds to feel important anymore. :-/

  • xd

    PL sh.t crying because use exploit ahahahaa

    • The Obvious

      And the exploit was…

      • Beekeeper Bob

        Using their own tactics against them…..

  • I’M NOT COMING BACK!

    So Eve can’t handle the major battles it advertises, the best ships and tactics for small gangs have been nerfed into the ground, and a lot of game mechanics make doing anything on your own or in small numbers a complete headache or plain suicidal.

    I unsubbed after I lost a few billion dollar pods because my pod simply refused to warp for over 5 seconds, while unpointed, “can not lock on to selected target”. I sent a VIDEO of it happening 2 different times, in with my petition. (I was streaming when it happened). The logs confirm everything as well.

    They denied it, after giving me total bullshit reasons why it happened. (They claimed my client was receiving it’s packets out of order, but eve uses tcp/ip which will resend and reorder any lost packets BEFORE they are sent to the client.) What I think is actually happening is the client runs like shit, and is processing things out of order. The shiny little ship death explosion and animation is taking so long to complete client side, that you end up sitting in space and pointable to everyone else while your client is still sorting out the fact that your ship is exploding. I have logs where my ship and pod gets pointed and takes dmg AFTER IT IS DEAD.

    I realized then that eve is a big lie. It’s promises don’t hold up. CCP is more worried about shiny pretty ships and attracting casual gamers than having a game that functions properly. The “Ship Balancing” has been performed by clueless blobber scrubs, and the deployables are a huge waste of time and a pile of shit.

    Sov mechanics are still complete shit, and the game lets people blob unrestricted by balance mechanics. Blob sizes are only limited by server strength.

    Eve’s end game is null sec, everything about null sec sucks. The pvp, the sov grind, and the Ego-centric glorius leaders and all their “yes men” sheeple followers.

    I was thinking of resubbing, but this article has reminded me that for all it’s potential, eve doesn’t deliver a fun gaming experience. The vast majority of the time you’ve spent playing eve is work, it’s tedious, inglorious and the only real fun is destroying someone else’s work. At some point that gets old, especially in a game full of broken mechanics, ego-maniacs, and massive blobbing.

    • true bro

      Mayby CCCP lost 10k ppl doing something, but now this is a joke not game.

      Many other mmo need my money and server is stable.

      • Beekeeper Bob

        Seriously kids, why do you continue to beat this dead horse?
        These issues have been going on for years in every major engagement, and suddenly, when it bites you, it’s a surprise?

        • BS

          Wth you are talking about? Noone is suprised, and it comes out after every bigger engagement.

      • slartybartfast

        enjoy your stable 64-player capped battles wherever you end up. o/

    • Chris

      Bye

    • Bob

      Agreed the promises made the endless fail to deliver would have seen most indie companies to an early grave but CCP keep trucking along but unfortunately the more people play the more obvious these problems will become.

    • Shieldfire

      Contract me your remaining stuffs and implants

    • asd

      I agree with all of the above except for the total misunderstanding of the technical issues at hand.

  • N3 are so terrible

    rusrus claims

    Today’s fight in HED-GP we formed in our coalition:
    1000 Sub-Capitals
    700 Dreads
    220 + Supers
    100 + Titans

    N3/PL formed:
    350 Carriers
    116 Supers
    30 Titans
    100? Sup-capitals

    Actual estimated figure (n3 based on the scans i took myself)

    Today’s fight in HED-GP we formed in our coalition:
    750 Sub-Capitals
    700 Dreads
    40 ish carriers
    150 Supers
    40 + Titans

    N3/PL formed:
    690 Archon
    150 dreads
    170 Supers
    90 Titans
    400 Sup-capitals

    TLDR you didnt lose because you got fucked by ccp.

    here is why you lost

    You fought a greater force in number skill and ships. and then proceeded to blame your loss on ccp.

    isnt it time -a- died for good ?

  • Al

    “Seeing the system at max TiDi before the dreads entered I guess I wasnt
    entirely surprised, I was fully expecting the server to go down.”

    Being able to admit trying (or hoping) to use “server limitations”, and justify the fail by “server limitations” in the same text is just … incredible.

    My 15 years old son is able to do that, but I hope he’ll be intelligent enough one day (in 2 or 3 years I hope), to admit that it was just … ridiculous.

  • Right to defend

    Well if you guys actually think sitting around in slide shows pressing a few buttons and waiting in huge TiDi lag fests for something to happen is fun – more power to you. I love the idea but the execution is just NOT enjoyable for me at all. The 0.0 egotists and the general big alliance grind was one of the reasons I stopped playing.
    I play DUST now and for all of its problems its a good game that keeps me entertained. I will probably come back to eve at some point but I doubt very much that I will get back into the big 0.0 slug fests.

  • Lori

    Want to avoid the servers being crushed? Put down the freaking batphone. All those friends and your coalition should be trying to kill you and take your space. Smaller engagements are not only more fun, but can happen more often! Would certainly make nullsec a lot more exciting!

  • Foxstar Damaskeenus

    I could really use some ISK right now