Setting up a decoy can be an extremely powerful strategy in any form of warfare. It can draw an enemy’s strength where it is not needed, and leave openings of weakness for one to exploit. It can cause the enemy to over extend supplies or trade losses poorly. It can also be demoralizing and put heavy strain on logistics. The current war has seen both sides employ this strategy with varying success. Let us take a look at the different ways the strategy has been approached and who if anyone has benefited from it.

Sneaky Gentlemen

The first to carry out any major operation in the north had been taken up by Gentlemen’s Agreement of the CFC against N3’s renter holdings in Kavela Expanse. They mostly used cov ops assets and other high mobility ships to quickly over run sov holdings in the region. The stated goal was to draw N3 forces from the front line down south against DTF and CFC allies and weaken them there. Unfortunately for them Insidious Empire (EMP) was quick to react and undid much of their all of the progress they had made in a fraction of the time it took GENTS to take whatever they did. The DTF/CFC forces in the south failed to make any meaningful gains in the south and instead emboldened EMP.

GENTS claimed victory in the fact that they drew EMP into grinding sov up north. EMP on the other hand stated that they never really intended to fully deploy in the south and preferred fighting smaller sized battles up north. From the recorded meeting it seemed like the GENTS side of things didn’t sound as pleased with what they had done as their leadership would have liked. Their contribution may have been more meaningful had there been a focused southern offensive with some progress. Instead they managed to burn out their membership and give EMP something to brag about.

A Favor Returned

With GENTS being beaten back and having lost a station on their side of the front, EMP had teamed up with TEST and swore to invade Vale of the Silent. Now on the defensive, GENTS were provided support from their coalition, the CFC to hold off the offensive. Unfortunately for TEST and EMP there seemed to be some historically bad blood with certain directors in EMP having taken assets from TEST when they departed. Suffice to say, it’s poor planning to invade a new region when your troops own side is in opposition to itself.

Instead of EMP and TEST being a unified entity they have provided the CFC with factors that contribute to their morale. It was now their turn to reclaim lost holdings and claim victory. Oh the other side of things EMP and TEST could claim that their attack was merely a diversion, a decoy not unlike GENTS. Perhaps moving the goal posts from their stated intent to invade, EMP/TEST have actually pulled away the majority of the CFC from the south.

Spinning

These factors can be spun several ways by either side. This may be the CFC’s opportunity to distance themselves from their southern allies of convenience claiming that “sov warfare isn’t fun” and “didn’t want to win in the south anyway” along with “lol bad russians” and that they simply want to defend their territory. “Until CCP fixes Archons and drone mechanics in general, there’s simply no point to engage in an offensive sov war.” CFC exits the war, defends against EMP and TEST, claims victory. Their opposition has given them the perfect opportunity to do that by making big declarations of conquest before anything is sure.

The N3 side of things has handled the northern offensive poorly. Though their initial success was to be admired, their inability to patch up diplomatic issues with TEST has lead to many frustrations and a relief to their enemies. In effect, EMP/TEST have given the CFC a “front they can be proud of.” Before then all they had was their stagnated trench line in the south, now they have a glorious defense of their motherland. A better idea would have been to act more quietly, and simply be more effective at what GENTS did. This way failure can simply be seen as “being no worse than GENTS but actually better” while success would stand on its own merits. War is played in the mind as much as it is on the field.

The Importance of the Center line

Anyone that’s even marginally competent in any sort of martial arts, actual martial arts not flowery dancing ballet with paper thin tin sheet swords, will tell you about a simple concept called the “Center line” or your “Gate.” Sitting wherever you are extend your hands out in front of you until your arms are straight. Then place your palms together. You should see an extended triangle before you made from your arms. That is your center line or your gate. If you control that in any fist fight you win.

The concept doesn’t just apply to martial arts but to the world of gaming. One of the best examples I can give of is the original Company of Heroes. In 3 v 3 maps the flanks generally carry the resources on the map while the center usually has minor resource importance or simply a place holding section to grab as territory. Most people force fights on the flanks for the resources. However, with a decent team you can push deeper into the center which the enemy often ignores and set up forward defensive positions. With that acquired you can shift your full team to strike one flank and than the other in 3 v 2 or 3 v 1 fights where is your opponent wants to do the same they have to go around your established forward defensive position in the middle.

A similar concept also works in a more familiar game, dota. Based on top, center and bottom lanes the 5v5 game generally divides with 2 on top and bottom and 1 person in the middle. While you’ll generally see one person start roaming to set up “ganks” more professional teams will use control of the center line (warding and dewarding river and taking out the first tower at mid) to do a similar tactic as mentioned above instigating local numerical superiority.

Napoleon Bonaparte understood the concept of local numerical superiority in his battles as well. While out numbered over all he realized that through mobility he can establish superior numbers in vital places on the battlefield that would allow him victory. Yes the enemy may have more troops over all, but he had more troops on a specific flank or weak point that when pressed would do damage to the enemy structure as a whole.

Applying the Center Line to the Third Great War

For those not familiar with the influence sov map I recommend that you use this link.

This war is one of multiple fronts. A northern front around Kavela/Vale, and the southern front in Catch and the surrounding regions. There is also a “Shadow Front” which I may discuss at a later date. N3 has a distinct advantage which they may or may not be aware of in such a multi front war. If they haven’t already, they should set up a jump bridge high way from the northern front to the south. Using the concepts we learned earlier in the article we should know that shifting your full force from right to left and back (north to south and back in our Eve situation) you can have numerical superiority when most needed.

The advantages N3 has is two fold. They can set up a jump bridge network linking their fronts together. Secondly, the CFC being unable to do the same must rely on traveling the whole of Empire space to reinforce one front and than the other. High Sec mercenaries, while often ridiculed for not being “real pvpers” whatever that is suppose to mean, become invaluable assets in this scenario as they can lock down trade hub regions and harass the logistical chain of the CFC. While using out of corp characters to transport supplies sounds like an obvious remedy, in practice this becomes tedious and judging by the number of high sec hauler assets lost it doesn’t seem to be a stream lined alternative.

As such N3 could in fact put its full force in the south one night and then in the north the next. Does this not mean all of N3 needs to pile up into one system, but can attack multiple systems on the same front. Neither side really needs to move the battle line all that much in order to win. It isn’t as if every single system under possession is going to be the sight of a major battle. You only need to put enough strain on the other side’s logistics and morale in order to cause internal conflict.

Signs of this have already showed up with Thorn Syndicate’s departure from Black Legion. The internal frustration within -A- has likewise surfaced weeks ago. Within the CFC you had the grumbling within GENTS about their lack of effect in their northern offensive. Razor members were quieted for “complaining too much.” There was also the issue of identity within the CFC which may be a symptom of greater stress.

B0TLRD Accords

The recent “B0TLRD Accords” between PL and the CFC can also be interpreted several ways from the CFC working with PL, to the CFC fearing PL to PL not trusting that N3 will win the war in the long run. You can find accord itself online but over all these are the points that stood out:

1. The goals it to allow both PL and the CFC to maintain income sources during the on going war.

2. Both sides agree not to attack the other’s capital entities within designated “home space” (as opposed to “buffer” space.) Both sides will also not bring anymore than 5 triage carriers and a bridging titan. Bringing a subcapital force larger than 250.

So far so good one can argue. PL doesn’t bring their blap capitals to kill CFC forces where as CFC promises to limit the size of their fleets. On the other hand one can also argue that with the CFC having more people to cycle in and out of war, eventually PL will burn out sooner than the CFC. Here is where I think “mistakes were made” on PL’s part in the agreement.

3. Each side may initiate an unrestricted attack on all non signatory entities in designated “home regions.” Also while on home territory if the signatory defender is using a non signatory ally to defend its space, the other signatory entity may not intervene. So if BL and CFC are defending themselves against NCdot, PL cannot show up to that fight.

The real problem arises when we see what is defined as “home region” and what is deemed”buffer region.”

Definitions:

CFC Home Regions:

Branch, Tenal, Venal, Vale of the Silent, Tribute, Deklein, Fade, Pure Blind, Cloud Ring, Outer Ring, Syndicate, Fountain, Delve, Period Basis, Querious. This is minus BL/SOLAR sov, as they are not signatories.

PL Home Regions:

PL/BOT sov in Oasa, Outer Passage, Malpais, The Spire, and the spattering of SOV 5 systems currently under PL control. This is minus N3 sov, as they are not signatories.

PL Buffer Zones:

Perrigen Falls, Kalevala Expanse, Etherium Reach, Cache, Insmother, Detorid

That’s interesting. The CFC Home Regions seems to be all of their regions including any of the regions on the northern front that N3 could strike out against. On the other hand, PL’s bordering regions to the northern front are all “Buffer zones” and free to be attacked and taken by the CFC.

This is by far the greatest move the CFC has done for the entire war. They’ve negotiated the defanging of PL to the point where they are no longer a meaningful threat to the CFC. PL is not allowed to hit the CFC in any meaningful manner where as the CFC can act according to its terms and favoring its doctrines.

Either I am missing something here that favors PL in any meaningful way or there was an under the table pile of cash thrown at PL to agree to such blatantly bad terms. This literally reads like this:

“The CFC is allowed to punch you in the face, and or punch your allies in the face.

P.S. You can’t touch us at all.”

I am truly impressed by the CFC’s ability to negotiate such favorable terms. While not claiming to be any sort of Kissinger (nor would I want to be) I do like studying diplomacy. I can’t help but cringe at what an awful move this is for one side yet at the same time be truly impressed at how good it is for the other.

What does this mean for N3? Well it means that any offensive up north is going to have a lot less weight. It’s effectively shut down N3’s offensive there while allowing the CFC to go about business as usual. The 250 sub cap limit favors the CFC as they can now keep an offense up north with limited numbers while allowing them to more fully enforce their allies in the south. Perhaps I’m missing something.

HED-GP? That ol’ thang?

At the start of the war I mentioned the importance of this system. I spoke about how it is the life line of logistics for -A- and its allies. It feeds right into Catch and unless you want to go through Provi or Querious you NEED to jump into HED-GP to reach the south. Without HED-GP the south all logistics bound from Empire will have to add many more jumps to reach its destination. When I initially wrote about this, DTF comments were dismissive but it seems that N3 either had the same idea as I did or listened to what I had said.

At the time of writing this, CFC and “RUS” forces have stood down ceding the field to the opposition forces. A notable mention goes out to Provibloc forces that initiated the opportunity for such a battle to take place by taking out the cynojammer. I suppose “RUS” should have listened more closely.

The Unknown Future

The CFC has stabilized the northern front via diplomatic means while leaving room for future expansion. On the other hand the loss of HED-GP is perhaps the most meaningful loss of the war so far. Cutting off the logistical support from Empire will be a nightmare to say the least. On top of that there are symbolic aspects tied to HED-GP. As someone that made a career out of harassing -A- HED-GP in cov ops during the summer of 2012 I can only wish them luck in the future. It remains up to the CFC to see if they’ll provide any sort of meaningful relief or simply cut their losses and rest assured on their favorable agreement.

– Seraph IX Basarab

93 Comments

  1. Space Dude

    The isk must flow

    January 19, 2014 at 02:32 Reply
  2. Bill Cat

    Either money changed hands or there is some serious trolling going on. Or both. Somehow I doubt anyone will care except Mittens when this accord is broken.

    January 19, 2014 at 02:32 Reply
    1. true story

      January 19, 2014 at 03:19 Reply
      1. thinkmuch?

        When you join goons Batto do they take away your ability say anything without a boring cliche attached? Is it press F1, post meme?

        January 19, 2014 at 03:38 Reply
        1. I don’t always respond to trolls

          but when I do, i look like an asshat.

          stay thirsty my friends.

          January 19, 2014 at 03:49 Reply
          1. Bill Cat

            true story

            January 19, 2014 at 03:51
          2. Simon pieman

            You should get out more.

            January 19, 2014 at 12:55
          3. but the sun, it buuuurns us.

            January 19, 2014 at 16:39
  3. Jaime Gomes

    Till now we have not received any answers from anyone from PL confirming or denying this “agreement”. So for now this is just smokescreen. Not only that but from what is on the other site that settlement is filled with holes like a Swiss cheese. Either way its very very funny that thing came in the middle of the HED massacre with….everyone counting the foreseeable losses, the massive srp (if they even exist for some Russian entities) payouts, the Russian morale getting roflstomped. If this this deal actually happened i would love if you could get Russian reactions to this :DDDDDDD.

    January 19, 2014 at 02:37 Reply
    1. Bill Cat

      I was actually looking on the PL forums for the agreement and couldn’t find it, but I don’t claim to be an expert at that, maybe it’s there. In any case doesn’t fit the PL personality to quit fighting especially when winning, but it does fit their personality to enjoy setting traps.

      And of course the whole thing fits Mittens though – throw meta money around and hope that saves him. Good luck with that this time.

      January 19, 2014 at 02:45 Reply
      1. Dinsdale Pirannha

        Why would it just be meta money?

        January 19, 2014 at 04:06 Reply
        1. Bill Cat

          in game money = isk
          meta money (one level up) = real money
          so yes, am with you on that.

          January 19, 2014 at 04:20 Reply
    2. Kamar Raimo

      Indeed, there is no indication that PL actually signed the agreement.

      TBH if I were PL I would sign it just to break it. One thing is clear, CFC has more to lose than PL. OTEC established that PL can get some really valuable moons in the north. Those moons are not that valuable anymore, and with the redistribution of moongoo, PL can collect riches from may other places.

      The CFC on the other hand have a whole region of nullbears on the line up there and a much larger number of moons. With their rental empire not quite as well established, they are more vulnerable than PL is.

      The terms of engagement are also highly amusing. 250 subcaps on one side and only 5 triage Archons on the other (note, triage Archons i.e. no Slowcats allowed).

      Really, if PL did sign this, they should break it at the first opportunity where the CFC renter/nullbear population breathes a sigh of relief and then bring it.

      The Cylons did it to the Colonies too.

      January 19, 2014 at 02:57 Reply
  4. Kamar Raimo

    BTW Seraph. IIRC EMP never stated that they wanted to invade Vale. They said they will harass the shit out of it and RF everything they can, but there was no mention of invading. TEST might have had another agenda, but then again, I think their one system they took was just trolling.

    January 19, 2014 at 03:13 Reply
    1. Sieveboy

      EMP dropped enough TCUs in 669 to suggest they were keen to take it and they formed big numbers for S-NJBB (station system) ihub timer to suggest they were looking to invade.

      January 19, 2014 at 05:43 Reply
      1. Suggests != Actua Intent

        And why would that tactic not be classed as harassment?

        January 19, 2014 at 12:43 Reply
        1. Sieveboy

          Good question, if it was harassment then why did N3 and PL send huge carrier fleets to assist in these fights? 669 was won for test when grath himslef jumped something like 70 archons in to the fight?

          January 19, 2014 at 13:12 Reply
        2. way past harassment

          Then why did they lose 30 caps, while TEST watched, that PL were trying to save with supers during a battle for a system they SBU’d if they were “Just harassing” the CFC? SC’s and Titans don’t harass anything, they are used in bloc warfare for structure bashing.

          January 21, 2014 at 01:30 Reply
  5. lol

    Goons = PL since beginning of goons

    PL uses them as meat and isk

    January 19, 2014 at 03:27 Reply
  6. anon

    btw hed-gp has not much use for empire-0.0 logistic.
    1. you can not cyno in jf from keberz, so you can use it only to exit the 0.0.
    2. keberz is 22 jumps away from jita/13 jumps away from amarr and leads through dozen of 0.5/0.6systems. if you do logistic you dont have the time to travel that far gate by gate, or wantto take the risk every day to get ganked when autopiloting around.

    during my time in stain/catch the eastern catch station systems are the important ones for logistic. rnf, a-vilq, kw-, n-8 and so on.
    because with one of those systems in your hand you can cynochain almost directly to amarr with no risk at all.

    January 19, 2014 at 03:28 Reply
    1. Seraph IX Basarab

      You can warp in a conventional hauler into HED-GP and then use the jump bridge from there to GE-. So yea it’s extremely useful.

      January 19, 2014 at 05:23 Reply
      1. Billbo

        You sir are a laugh riot! “You can warp in a conventional hauler into HED-GP”

        January 19, 2014 at 05:56 Reply
        1. Seraph IX Basarab

          Whether it survives or not depends on the individual πŸ˜‰

          January 19, 2014 at 06:17 Reply
          1. gg

            HED-GP was important in the initial years of EVE when there were no JFs and ships with jump drives were in general less prevalent. It has since lost a lot of it’s strategic importance as a logistic route. Still, there are quite a lot of grunts and/or solo bears that still use it, and it still has significant symbolic value. Whenever -A- lost HED-GP they would end up losing all of their space.

            So, in conclusion, it is an important system but not crucial. It’s current value is more symbolic then strategic.

            January 20, 2014 at 12:08
          2. the old days

            Correct, “Highsec Gate” systems haven’t mattered since every alliance in 0.0 either has 5-10 Jf’s in alliance and moving things already or they pay a service to do it for them, the only people using haulers and jump bridges are the ones that end up on kill mails everyone laughs at.

            January 21, 2014 at 01:26
  7. yay4fun

    Just Mittens trying to calm down the renters who might be catching on they are losing, telling them the big bad PL won’t come eat them for dinner. Timing smacks of desperation.

    January 19, 2014 at 03:41 Reply
  8. Provi Miner

    I just wanted to say finally someone who give provi its due, btw there was never any intention of CVA/Provi forces to create this situation. Rather it was in response to a piss poor attack by -A- on a volt system. Now I have been hard on volt (after all they for some reason can control their own access to high sec) but on this one volt did eve a real nice solid. Granted it wasn’t planed and it was more of an easy picking rather than stratigic but frack it nice job volt/CVA and Provi.

    January 19, 2014 at 03:45 Reply
    1. Proiv PVPer

      um……………AAA never anchored an SBU in Y-M. Volt counldn’t kill an SBU that was anchored there a couple of days later the Ihub / station was getting shoot by a few people our so called leaders took hours to off line the defensive SBU Proiv just blamed it on aaa because admitting volt couldn’t defend againts a handful of players is embarrassing.
      also just FYI true story

      January 19, 2014 at 03:51 Reply
      1. Booyeah

        -A- altcorp ran by General Gree. But, sure, yeah, it wasn’t -A-.

        Either way, it seems CFC/Rus are now going to be looking for a scapegoat to shift the blame for how badly they fucked the pooch in HED, and Provi is dead in their sights.

        January 19, 2014 at 04:10 Reply
        1. Dirty Rotten Sneaky Bastard

          You say Provi is dead in their sights, eh?
          Currently the CFC is just a little too busy to worry about Provi revenge.
          The RUS are simply trying to not get slaughtered.
          Provi, I think, doesn’t really need to worry too much about them two for a while.

          January 19, 2014 at 09:12 Reply
          1. Booyeah

            Well, I try not to attribute things like “reason” and “logic” to the tempering of emotions when it comes to EVE entities.

            January 19, 2014 at 10:08
      2. Provi Miner

        Proiv PVPer: I was not clear the volt system -A- SBU’d was in catch, My mention of YM is in the fact of the perma gate camp there that for some reason volt allows to exist. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

        January 19, 2014 at 19:01 Reply
  9. chzy

    tl;dr PL retain the ability to choose sides of the war and play exactly how they want to play. If CFC win the war, PL doesn’t lose anything. N3 win the war, PL gains more sov and therefor more income.

    Bloody smart move, proving that once again their diplomancer skills are still superior to the rest of the EvE community

    January 19, 2014 at 05:58 Reply
  10. Damien

    Most well written and comprehensive article in months. Respect.

    January 19, 2014 at 06:04 Reply
  11. Mohamad's Comment

    https://killboard.ncdot.co.uk/?a=kill_related&kll_id=362724
    248 Dreads killed and 28 Carriers …. ENOUGH SAID!

    January 19, 2014 at 06:57 Reply
    1. Pure Brilliant

      I roughly approximate that to be just over 20,000 Great British Pounds. BWAHAHAHAHALOLOLOLYAKYAKYAKYAKYAKYAKSNARFSNARFSNARFSNARFSNARF

      January 19, 2014 at 12:39 Reply
  12. Grath

    Yes the accord is real, yes we signed it, yes our allies were kept in the loop while we discussed it. The author seems to have missed a few of the strategic implications about the accord that I’m not going to bother pointing out on EN24, however they are there and he did miss them.

    Don’t worry though many of our internal members missed it too, Lelob is pretty mad.

    To be absolutely clear, zero money changed hands, that sounds stupid and made up, and the agreement is legitimate, the fact that so many people are confused by the wording is intentional, as it was set up by 2 actual lawyers.

    January 19, 2014 at 08:04 Reply
    1. Seraph IX Basarab

      Well the simple fact remains Grath that the CFC’s regions are called “Home regions” which you cannot touch where as the CFC can attack your “buffer regions” which happen to lay across just the other side of the northern front. By all means and with all due sincerity enlighten me where I missed the point.

      January 19, 2014 at 08:23 Reply
      1. Grath

        I mean, would you like to attack Cobalt Edge with a fleet limited to 250 members and no caps?

        Again, I’m not going to discuss the strategic aspects of this thing in the comments section of EN24 but if you ever feel like hopping on PL’s OG Mumble I’m sure we’d provide you with a soundcloud recording that would help you understand, better.

        January 19, 2014 at 08:30 Reply
        1. Seraph IX Basarab

          How many 250 member fleets do you think the CFC can form and how many 250 member fleets can PL form. They’ve limited your ability to maintain local numerical superiority.

          I may take you up on your offer.

          January 19, 2014 at 08:37 Reply
          1. Grath

            “The following restrictions apply to so-called Buffer Regions:

            CFC agree not to assist any non-signatory in the conquest or
            capture of Buffer Regions. Attending fights with non-strategic level
            fleets (no caps/supers beyond five triage and a bridge titan, no more
            than 250 subcaps) is perfectly acceptable. There are no such
            restrictions should the CFC decide to invade the buffer regions to take
            them for the CFC. The buffer regions are to be controlled by PL-allies
            or the CFC should they decide to invade. Allowing non-signatories to
            base out of signatory sov in the buffer zone constitutes a violation
            (Black Legion cannot stage in CFC sov in a buffer zone, nor can NCdot
            stage out of PL sov in a buffer zone)”

            tl;dr forming more than one fleet violates the accord. I thin you honestly need to go back and re read that in its entirety, I believe you’re missing a lot of the important bits there..

            January 19, 2014 at 08:47
          2. wtf

            why the hell are you just not fighting – is this “law online” now? You think anyone wants to play this?

            January 19, 2014 at 08:54
          3. Grath

            When was it ever suggested that I care what anyone else wants to play? My dog takes shits that I give more thought to than ‘what anyone wants to play’, hope that helps.

            January 19, 2014 at 08:57
          4. jeffspader

            Then get your dog to shit on Mittens instead of signing garbage like this. Good to see some rage though, btw the lawyer suit looks ridiculous on you, even your dog knows it.

            January 19, 2014 at 09:06
          5. fuck you

            It’s simple, neither both entities dares to pull the trigger. Big pussies, plain and simple.

            January 20, 2014 at 09:40
          6. Leonidas webb

            “There are no such restrictions should the CFC decide to invade the buffer regions to take
            them for the CFC. ”

            Put simply, all the cfc has to do to bypass the 250 man sub cap limitation is invade

            January 19, 2014 at 09:10
          7. Grath

            Sorry, but im pretty sure an actual invasion puts the accords in the dumpster anyway and at that point nobody will care what the accords say

            January 19, 2014 at 09:12
          8. Seraph IX Basarab

            “There are no such restrictions should the CFC decide to invade the buffer regions to take
            them for the CFC.”

            invade =/= actual invasion? I don’t understand. To me this line states that if the CFC decide TO INVADE buffer regions such as Kavela, there are NO SUCH RESTRICTIONS.

            I’m sorry but it sounds to me like you’ve ceded them the option to do pretty much whatever while limiting your own options greatly.

            January 19, 2014 at 10:20
          9. Grath

            I’m sorry that you see it wrong?

            What exactly are you looking for here, I’ve flatly told you that you’re interpreting it differently than we are, and that we are the ones in the agreement, so if we don’t like the way its going we are free and able to call it quits the same as them

            Lord knows all of EVE runs every deal under the conditions that you seraph view said deal but in this particular one we’ll run it the way we interpret it, which is 100% differently than you do

            January 19, 2014 at 10:26
          10. Seraph IX Basarab

            Hey by all means if you can make this a favorable agreement for your side, go for it. I’ll be interested to see how it turns out. Thank you for entertaining my questions.

            January 19, 2014 at 21:36
    2. makemittensrunscaredinstead

      If no money changed hands then good, you should be able to reneg on the agreement anytime because then it’s just part of a game. Otherwise stick to what you are good at – fighting – you are never going to out diplomat a guy with a law background, not even close. Get back to what you are good at – leading, fighting and well, epic raging of course.

      January 19, 2014 at 08:34 Reply
      1. jarhead

        isn’t a contract invalid without “consideration”? ie the peppercorn rent type contract still have a small payment (consideration) to make them binding

        January 19, 2014 at 10:28 Reply
    3. breaker

      And here is the point we all waiting for. PL back in backstabbing buisness.
      HAHA look N3 with what you have dealt. We will come and kick u all out. PL daddy wonΒ΄t save you next time.

      January 19, 2014 at 10:08 Reply
      1. lmao

        i think you missed something bro or do not undestand things

        January 19, 2014 at 12:54 Reply
        1. ummm???

          Or maybe you didn’t read the part where the only people protected are PL and N3 is on their own?

          January 21, 2014 at 01:20 Reply
  13. I just do not know

    Funny enough I de-subbed before this agreement came out, mainly because I was bored with Eve and the ESS was so meh I thought no way…. The only thing I can think about this is that this gave the CFC the security to deploy their capital fleet for one major battle then call off their invasion, result game continues as is and thats it. So in a nutshell that is the end of Eve for me, Star Citizen hanger here I come, which is waht I had effectively been playing in Eve the last month…

    January 19, 2014 at 10:02 Reply
  14. phuhq2

    So…. why not just have “PL” as the holding alliance, have all of the pilots from PL join a NEW alliance, and attack that way? THEN “PL” holdings are still safe, and (the alliance PL makes) can attack all they want to? It’s not like in the real world where if one country says “we won’t attack you, but we can pay somebody else to do it” this is just like saying “we won’t attack you, but all our countries military is now joining another country’s that can” This is a GAME, DO what ever the hell you want to… I would LOVE to see the write up on THAT one, lol. Almost makes me want to play EvE again

    January 19, 2014 at 10:51 Reply
    1. Noisrevbus

      There’s simply no need for it.

      EVE online, a 10 year-old game, that not only allows but encourages multiple accounts, is probably the most inbred community you can think of.

      The people in PL who want to renter-fuck CFC space can easily do so on alts. What those alts are limited to is the full-on infra-blitz or forward-staging of a capital deployment.

      Places like Curse, Syndicate and the Sov-core spaces are filled with PL alt-corps of sorts.

      January 20, 2014 at 19:11 Reply
      1. lol

        If you haven’t figured it out yet all of the important people in this game are already in all the alliances as alts. They all talk to each other in their own chat channels. All of your wars are arranged, enjoy the “Content”.

        January 21, 2014 at 01:20 Reply
  15. Alidean

    Yea anyone who doesnt read the BoTLRD accords as “our 40,000 dudes are scared of your 2,000” dudes should get a head check.. One alliance stood down a whole coalition

    January 19, 2014 at 16:17 Reply
  16. No_mercy_PL_Scum

    PL scared CFC/RuS dreads !!!

    January 19, 2014 at 18:12 Reply
    1. dead_dreads_wololol

      what dreads?

      January 20, 2014 at 14:24 Reply
  17. Im no lawyer

    Im not from PL or CFC or N3 but I read this as so

    No PL cannot attack CFC sov
    No CFC cannot attack PL/BOT sov

    Yes CFC can attack n3 sov
    Yes if CFC do invade n3 sov PL can assist N3/allies by all means necessery

    No if Rusrus invade Buffer and home regions of N3/PL CFC cannot assist in anyway beyond the 250 subcap (that’s the whole of the CFC not just 1 alliance) 5 Triage etc rule

    Yes N3 can attack CFC sov
    No PL cannot Assist beyond 250 subcaps/5 triage etc etc (bear in mind PL rarely ever maxes out 1 fleet anyways) but no PL cannot use supers

    CFC cannot harass BOT renters
    PL cannot harass CFC renters (but N3/allies still can)

    January 19, 2014 at 19:12 Reply
    1. Some Dude

      If you think about it this “deal” benefits PL alot and N3 a fair bit, but as for the CFC side it really fucks them up because even though PL aren’t able to harass CFC renters it aint going to stop anyone from n3 deploying to the CFC rental regions for a few weeks whereas the CFC if they did decide to harass N3 renters PL could help N3 and co however they want.

      Also if RusRus really ever do decide to invade there old rental space and try and take it back CFC can only assist with a token fleet of 250 dudes (and lets face it 250 CFC dudes can be killed by a hundred or so N3 dudes)

      The major losers of this are BL/Solar and RusRus as they are all fair game still for N3 and PL

      January 19, 2014 at 20:53 Reply
      1. lol wut?

        Riiiiight, N3 won’t go near the north without 100 Pl. Sc’s logged in ready to save them as it is, what makes you think they will attack knowing those supers won’t be there to save them from the whole CFC????

        January 21, 2014 at 01:18 Reply
    2. Noisrevbus

      CFC -> N3 space
      CFC -> PL space (not)

      RUS -> N3 space
      RUS -> PL space

      N3 -> CFC space
      N3 -> RUS space

      PL -> CFC space (not)
      PL -> RUS space

      As far as how the motivation for PL goes (deeming by all those “I’m from PL and I believe this…” posts) it’s rather that the CFC attack on PL renters were done to point out that the old OTEC accords needed to be amended against renter-fucking.

      PL were given the options of protecting B0T and fucking with PBL0RD , or getting free shots at RUSBL. They choose the latter, most likely since that opportunity will go away while guerilla-fucking each other’s renter empires can be done either through proxy or at a later time when the renter-economy has settled in a bit more as a system and we’ve seen wether it’s here to stay or subject to more CCP intervention.

      Don’t mistake that with thinking that renter-fucking is something either side would be bad at or not enjoy – especially not PL (as they are the focus of this commentary). If you take an alliance mainly made up of disenfranchized small-gang roamers and cov/hot-droppers with a powerful capital arm… What makes you think that they would not be good at renter-fucking?

      Then we can argue all day about wether the better option for PL would be the opportunity to engage in renter-fucking (small-gang + infra-blitz) or fucking with RUSBL (~100 scale Superdropping). I would probably prefer the former, as someone who is not invested in the choice (as opposed to the so informed “I’m from PL” dudes), but either way I would say that PL was picking from a win-win multiple choice scenario. Especially considering the current option of stomping 1000+ free subcapitals in pointless repetition until being caught off-guard once or twice and rarely losing 250+ cheap Archons.

      Now they can ensure that those Archons remain essentially free and troll-bait the Ruskies and upstarts with them: two sides that are known to provide good content in the Supercapital-environment PL already existed within.

      January 20, 2014 at 19:01 Reply
  18. Some Dude

    If PL take HED sov doesnt that mean CFC can no longer assist Rusrus besides a 250 man fleet? As the agreement refered to all PL sov not just the home regions

    January 19, 2014 at 21:19 Reply
  19. oh dear

    You didn’t understand anything and just threw random assumptions around right?

    There are old bonds between Goons and PL and those bonds are still valued by Mittani&Shadoo. PL knows that the CFC are the only one capable of bringing them down and they want to have their income secured. (Ask shadoo about finances please and you know how important it is for him & PL) CFC wants to be safe from getting hotdropped by PL in their homeregions and nobody gives a shit about vince draken and PGL.

    Everybody wants to see those idiots removed from 0.0 and PL just aligns with them because they are playing the war theatre game with Goons.

    Provide “content” for the pubs and secure income in background. Thats what PL&Goons did forever now.

    January 19, 2014 at 22:16 Reply
    1. Some bitter PL vet

      Im in PL and frankly most of us PL dudes would much rather shoot the CFC than be allied with them (300 of your dead dreads say that) and no we aren’t afraid that the CFC will bring us down 1 day. Frankly we value our friendship with NCdot more than anything else in Eve

      But yes we do value keeping our rental program and isk income needs to be maintained so we signed the deal as it means our rental program is probably the safest in all of Eve now

      We do like however that the CFC a 40k strong coalition have now thrown BL/Solar and Rus (possibly there best allies they could hope for to ever attack N3 with) to the fire all so they could feel safe from a 2k man alliance which happens to have a lot of supers

      January 19, 2014 at 22:42 Reply
      1. siriusclown

        Oh really? I am in PL and this is a shit idea. Who the crap wants a blue donut. Let the universe burn!

        January 20, 2014 at 09:02 Reply
      2. siriusclown

        and yes I realize that they wont actually be blue but if your space is 100% secure then they might as well.

        January 20, 2014 at 09:05 Reply
      3. its not eve online anymore

        “Im in PL and frankly most of us PL dudes would much rather shoot the CFC than be allied with them” And yet despite not wanting too you somehow manage to keep doing it, over and over and over. and in between you have infrequent, fake, staged wars to generate the news articles to attract new players to keep you hold over CCP rock solid. God I’m glad I got out of this game when the last REAL NC fell and the game became coalitions online.

        January 21, 2014 at 01:16 Reply
  20. Guess

    all the accords really show is just how risk adverse CFC and especialy the goons have become, guess sitting on the tech for a while left them lazy, fat, and risk adverse…..

    January 19, 2014 at 22:40 Reply
    1. guest

      For a long time I though “goons are the new BoB”; nah, they became exactly like the old NC. Sat over the money-making for years, became large and complacent and when push comes to shove won’t commit the necessary expensive assets to critical fights.

      Ok, to be fair, the one thing they don’t do like old NC is selling SCs to enemies, I acknowledge they are smarter than that.

      January 20, 2014 at 00:25 Reply
  21. gg

    It’s simple. This accord has secured the drone regions(PL home regions + buffer regions) for PL and N3. It’s essentially a big ‘fuck you’ to the Russians telling them not to count on CFC to reconquer what they consider as theirs (drone regions) and wand back. With this treaty PL+N3 have won the war as the Russians cannot reconquer Drones without CFC help. GG.

    PS. the agreement has been signed with N3 approval. N3 might become eventually co-signatories, they just don’t want to atm so they can fight CFC a bit more.

    January 20, 2014 at 02:03 Reply
    1. Forgive__Me

      ‘N3 might become eventually co-signatories’ I am a bit confused … N3 purpose was to destroy the CFC, right?

      January 20, 2014 at 14:07 Reply
      1. Boris

        No that was Nikki secunda(bad)

        January 23, 2014 at 00:01 Reply
  22. Dinsdale Pirannha

    is there anyone left who does not believe that these non-attack agreements are set up to protect RMT income? If the BOTLRD agreement is legit, and honoured, goons and PL have guaranteed their prime systems will never be attacked, since neither side can launch an attack on the other without the firepower of cfc or PL.

    January 20, 2014 at 03:08 Reply
    1. Seraph IX Basarab

      The pessimist in me says it may be very true.

      January 20, 2014 at 03:48 Reply
    2. The Obvious

      People always cry RMT without ever bringing forth evidence. If you are confident enough to accuse, take the evidence to CCP. I in no way defend large coalitions or say that RMT doesn’t happen, but I don’t throw around accusations without hard evidence.

      January 21, 2014 at 17:36 Reply
  23. NOMADPLGUY

    This BOTLRD deal was a mistake. I am in PL and those of us who expressed our opinions against this idea were told to pretty much stfu and like it or get out. Its a cartel of sorts. Goons and PL may as well blue eachother because neither of them are at risk of losing any space. Pretend enemies. Pretend pvpers. Who the hell wants to play a game when there is a list of donts regarding a entire coalition. What the F is fun about that. No we should not protect our income by a agreement but by our sword and we should make them do the same.

    January 20, 2014 at 09:11 Reply
    1. Forgive__Me

      Patience my fried, we won’t be stuck in the jump tunnel forever … who knows, perhaps your entire supercap fleet will be a nostalgic memory … no more agreements then πŸ˜‰ Everyone happy!

      January 20, 2014 at 14:05 Reply
  24. proxypuss

    BURN CFC RENTERS, BURN CFC ITSELF. ALL OF IT. STOP HIDING BEHIND A PROXY PL.

    January 20, 2014 at 12:44 Reply
  25. bigbonedbobby

    yeah this will be the way eve is until CCP nerfs supers and titans into the ground,CFC will be sitting on PL undock in 6000 subcaps the same very morning with a burning otec agreement.

    January 20, 2014 at 17:25 Reply
  26. somedude

    Lowsec systems much closer to amarr are in jump range of a number of systems still help by Rus in northern catch, the logistics cut of mentioned is false, as many of the jf operations already used that route anyway.

    January 20, 2014 at 18:49 Reply
    1. Seraph IX Basarab

      Nobody said taking HED-GP would cripple RUS completely, simply it takes away a very viable option. I know HED-GP and i know how it’s used.

      January 21, 2014 at 00:38 Reply
    2. Kadeshi Grunt

      Capital logistics will largely remain un affected I agree. Put sub capital logistics which people in alliances and renters do perform are severely affected by the loss of HED GP

      January 21, 2014 at 12:36 Reply
  27. Chuck Snorris

    PL sold you guys for some magic beans πŸ™‚

    January 23, 2014 at 21:36 Reply
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