A recent Eve News24 article published a discussion from the CFC media outlet in which a Goonswarm siege FC by the name of Lyris Nairn had shown concern over Razor’s “attempt to distance themselves” from the CFC. By this he meant the language used in Razor’s recent update that espoused the merits of Razor acting as an independent force and using language in the manner of “Razor and CFC forces will do X, Y and Z.” I found this particularly interesting on several levels beyond even the typical Eve meta because it touches upon aspects of human nature such as nationalism. Now I am a major proponent of nationalism, that is to say I believe it is human nature to cling to our national origins and we are better for it. I refuse to equate the term nationalism as it is more commonly used in the modern sense, as something inherently racist, ignorant and derogatory toward minorities. True nationalism respects other national groups and their unique identity because without that, you cannot discern yourself and your unique qualities. It’s a simple premise, you can only respect yourself if you respect others.

The Hierarchy of the CFC, Not all are equal

Alright, not to go down further into that rabbit hole, we’ll consider how this applies to Eve online, specifically in the social structure of the CFC. Now as some of you may know, the CFC is composed of several alliances such as the aforementioned Razor, Gentlemen’s Agreement, Fidelas Constans, Fatal Ascension etc, and they are lead by Goonswarm. There is a definite hierarchy to the CFC, some aspects quite overt, such as the Goons being the head of the coalition, and some of them less obvious which can be inferred by the territory held and the roles fulfilled. Over the last couple of years I always enjoyed seeing who got what within the CFC after a new conquest or when a coalition member would get purged. GENTS were given Tribute after the war against Dotbros there and indeed their performance in the war was nothing to scoff at as far as skirmishing and harassment. FA in turn likewise acquired territory in Fountain after TEST’s eviction. I cannot say I am sure if this was due to their performance or simply to spite TEST honestly. Then on the other end of the spectrum we can look at Executive Outcomes whose holdings in Cloud Ring may be inferred that they are indeed considered “junior members” to put it kindly. Going solely off of sec status alone, it seems that they have yet to prove themselves as a major asset as of yet. Their membership into the CFC having been solidified when the then leader of TEST, Montolio, took issue with their straddling the line between his HBC and the CFC. If this war settles in the CFC’s favor, it may be interesting to see if and where they will be given territory.

Frati ca frati dar branza e pe bani

A Romanian saying whose meaning would be “We may be brothers but the cheese costs money” this being in reference to the distribution of resources in the CFC. In the past some CFC members had raised concern about the number of moons owned by the CFC as opposed to other coalition members. While the Mittani has staved off such criticisms saying that “per player, the Goons have the least amount of moons” I am not sure that is much of a relevant defense considering that the various number of alts, inactive members and the fact that it isn’t as if individual members get a monthly paycheck. Indeed, Deklein has some of the best security stats for ratting of just about any region in New Eden. Truthfully I cannot think of too many regions I’d rule my Empire from.

An Empire held together by an Iron Fist

There is a very definite and distinct manner by which the CFC operates which I find fascinating. To an extent they make me think of the Austro-Hungarian Empire with its ruling class, serving ethnic groups such as the Magyars, Croats and Saxons. At the top you have the GSF, the central core of the CFC, the noble class if you will, with the Mittani as dictator. The main narrative is propagated through him, his vision and goals are taken up and implemented by his directors and FCs. Undeniably there is a cult of personality surrounding the individual which he and his followers hold up. This provides a focal point for the line members and is a very effective motivational tool.

Beyond this you have the core CFC members such as GENTS, RZR and FA. They have proven themselves valuable and reap the rewards. In essence they are a sort of middle class status, not in the actual functional manner but rather in the form of rank. There seems to be a bit of rumbling among this group to define themselves beyond just “being CFC members” and it is this rumbling which seems to be of concern to some members in the GSF. I had said before that the Goons like to keep their coalition members strong enough to be useful, but weak enough to be reliant on the GSF. Some CFC members may accuse me at attempting to sow discord among their coalition by saying that. Aside from such an action being completely useless to me, I actually find this policy as one of the few ways the GSF can maintain the CFC’s integrity. Within is coalition member’s territory, the GSF holds a station which I can only guess houses caches of assets that would provide some sort of “grip” to the GSF domain should their allies “falter.”

Eve has shown itself as a game where dictatorial hierarchy is much more practical than any sort of shared power dynamic. Until we see a major power bloc that shows us the contrary, there’s little point of entertaining such notions beyond the tip of a pen. If anything, I would recommend to N3 that they take a bit of a page from the GSF playbook and mold their coalition in a more centralized manner as well. However some within the CFC may disagree. Some may even wish to define their alliances more intently based on such sentiments giving a bit of weight to the concern Lyris has shown. Although he has stated that he “didn’t mean it that way” it’s hard to ignore his words.

“Burn the heretic. Kill the mutant. Purge the unclean.” ~ Lyris Nairn

One cannot help but feel that the GSF has evolved from its roots by quite a bit. From their days of throwing swarms of Rifters at the “evil” BoB Empire, hanging out with Red Alliance and being a goofy every-man’s alliance, they have become quite arguably, THE most powerful entity within Eve. Mord Fiddler had an interesting and somewhat poetic article discussing the term “barbarian” and how it applies to the CFC’s perspective on outsiders. Although the article was blatantly anti CFC, I did enjoy the read and it did bring some things to mind to consider. Where once they swarmed around the tall walls that BoB had put up, mocking them for their decadence of rental programs, and elitism, the GSF now find themselves within their own walls, with their own decadent rental program and it seems also engaging in their own level of elitism within the CFC. Those, it seems, that aspire to have an identity outside of the specific GSF mindset are deemed “heretics, mutants and unclean.”

Pay your rent, Pub Lords

Some may remember the private forums of BoB and the rather cruel things they said at the expense of their coalition members. I am left scratching my head as to why the GSF chose to use an abbreviated form of “Pub Lord” as their rental alliance ticker considering the connotation it holds. For those who do not know, a pub lord is a term Goon members use for the lowest of the low in their eyes. I’m equally baffled as to how many members that join the rental program know this. Don’t get me wrong, I have looked at the CFC rental program and while some aspects may be considered better and others worse, I would consider it in no way inferior to the N3 rental program. It isn’t as if the status of “renter” is highly valued in N3 either. I do not bring up these issues out of any antipathy and while I am not stranger to malice when I am pushed to it, it is out of a curious concern and interest that I entertain these things.

Sacrificial Lamb

The Mittani may have to make a very important decision here. I find it hard to believe Lyris is the only one to hold such sentiments within the GSF and he would be a far better judge than I due to his perspective. Depending on the size and power of the “Goon purist” faction, he may choose to make an example out of Lyris and show that that sort of elitist mindset is not part of the CFC. This of course would be popular with entities such as RZR and GENTS, but on the other side it may anger the “Goon purist” faction within the GSF. Issues such as these are nothing new. Indeed we can even look at Monarchist France and the issues between the nobility and the commoner class which left the French monarch always on edge. Punish Lyris and anger the purists. Ignore it and anger the coalition members. Perhaps I am short sighted and relying on a false dichotomy to reach this conclusion, who knows.

A Fine Balance

There are numerous factors and counter factors to consider for those involved in the matter. If members such as RZR and GENTS find too much autonomy within themselves, there may be calls for a more “equal status” between them and the GSF and then too many cooks spoil the broth. Clamp down too hard in the manner of the “Goon purists” and these members may look for alternatives. Interestingly enough, it is the danger that N3 poses which maintains CFC unity as much as it does and the same can be said about N3. Another method may be to pull back GSF forces in the northern front a bit by perhaps deploying them to harass N3 renter space and allow RZR and GENTS to “be more independent.” Perhaps after feeling the weight of EMP and other N3 entities, they will think of the GSF’s reinforcements as a sign that they need to depend on them more. On the other hand it may breed resentment and further worsen the problem, it really depends on how Mittani spins the narrative and even then who knows. Although unlikely, if GENTS and RZR actually manage to fend off N3’s advance in the north they may be even more emboldened. In short, it’s a crap shoot and we can only speculate on the factors. Perhaps the most important factor is recognition. Nations and Empires have fallen because the hegemon has failed to give credit where credit is due, or at least perceived.

My thoughts on the matter

I personally think it is great that RZR and GENTS are seeking to define themselves. Eve is much more interesting with unique identities and perspectives on things. Your status and relationships are not set in stone and you must find your own worth as an alliance in Eve. Simply put if you do not define yourself beyond your coalition, people will find little reason to be part of you. Failing to do this will mean that your better members, be they FCs or simple line members, will simply migrate to something superior if not distinct. If I recall correctly, RZR had the issue of a couple of corps moving to GSF and I believe this was due to a lack of having a strong enough identity at the time. I wouldn’t go as far as to challenge the leadership of the GSF, at least not when you have N3 at your gates. Yet at the same time the dangers of war may afford senior alliances some bargaining power within the CFC. Remember, the purpose of the current war is to set up for the next war. One must always keep in mind that one day your coalition will fall, and you need to have your alliance in an advantageous position, and one day your alliance may fall, and your corporation must have all the advantages possible. And one day your corporation may fall, and you as an individual must be maintained. One must always plan for the future and self identity is one of many factors when navigating your path.

– Seraph IX Basarab

  • wut?

    What the fuck did I just read?

    • Seraph IX Basarab

      An article analyzing issues of alliance identity within a coalition.

      • wut?

        I didn’t realise you were an aficionado on the inner workings of the CFC. Must have been all that time you spent in one of its many alliances thats made your analysis so accurate.

        • Manks

          The fact that his analysis was about spot on hits a nerve too I see.

          • Inigo Montoya

            Stating it’s spot on makes it so. It’s true.

      • xxxxx

        I don’t agree with some of your opinions but I enjoy a good read. Keep up the good work.

  • RagingRelaxation

    no such thing as “human nature”…. I stopped there.

  • Homophobic John

    Kick RZR.

    Also I for one, enjoy articles that analyze coalitions from the outside. Fun to see what people can ‘guess’ thats right and wrong.

  • Billbo

    WHATTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT

  • I see tin foil…

  • ToasterwAffle

    Big words make me sound smart and stuff. Banana.

    • Seraph IX Basarab

      Why are people so bothered by content with an intellectual angle? Why do we all have to be herpa derpa beer chugging neckbeards spamming “rekt” and “umad?”

      • Leicester

        Seraph here’s another saying that may be pertinent: Empty vessels make the most noise.

        By that I mean most of your positive readers generally read, approve, and remain silent – I guess it’s just human nature to vocalise disapproval more often than approval.

        Your posts upvote/downvote is probably a better barometer of what your readers actually think.

  • [email protected]

    Just please please just stop giving RAZOR attention already. Your just spoon feeding them more bullshit to make them feel good about themselves.

    • Seraph IX Basarab

      But I think everyone deserves to feel good. What do you think that Razor should not?

      • sun ben

        Seraph, mostly, you make very very readable articles, making more sense than the most of so-called “authors” about the internet space ships.

        I’ve been in EVE since October 2006, and on 2-3 occasions I was part of Northern Coalition(the one without the DOT). Razor and Vuk’s RMT enterprise called Morsus Mihi were quite shit to all other allies, and they never truly bothered to improve.

        They had the “allies” that had some sort of potential on many occasions, but in the end, it was just the numbers they wanted from them. If they had any proper face and capability, they would have held the Northern fortress when PL came with tengus with ease. Yet they folded, because they never pushed their allies(pets actually) into developing themselves beyond the required number of pilots in fleet.

        Razor now, is either sitting idle and enjoying the easy ride with goons, because they got what, 2-3 regions in north, milking the moon goo and those anoms like mad badgers. Their identity exists, it’s just one without any proper face.
        They now call goons their allies and friends, and it is the goons that actually were the primary cause of the old NC’s downfall through their no-support/backstab.

        When they sort that out, their identity might be considered with something more than a snort (I mean a derisive laugh that goes through nose 😉 ).

        Hope I clarified the stance of many people that dislike Razor.
        I’m actually not related to any of these crap blocks. And since I’ve done that, I’ve rediscovered EVE and fell in love with it, again. Not wanting to make a bash of razor or any others, because I dislike any of the big alliances/blocks in general.

  • Tiberu Stundrif

    – We’re not in the North. GENTS is in the North. RAZOR is in Curse.

    • Zloco

      With todays force projection i really laugh at the comments “We are
      north, they are south”. You get from one corner of EVE to another in 15
      mins. Everyone is everywhere.

  • Acwron

    The exact romanian saying is : “Frate, frate, dar branza-i pe bani.” Tho you got the meaning right.

    • Seraph IX Basarab

      Maybe there’s a slight regional variation. The way I wrote it is how I always hear it from my family. 😉

      Hai noroc. Esti Roman?

      • Acwron

        Dap, salut si tie 🙂

      • GivingWedgiesToNerds

        If I heard that saying from anyone in my family they’d get stabbed.

      • Ailok Konem

        Ambele variante sunt corecte. Sunt uimit de faptul ca esti roman sincer 🙂

        • Seraph IX Basarab

          Eu sunt uimit can nu sunt mai multi Romani care nu sunt mai involvati! Avem oameni de talent, si bun si rau care merge in Eve. Am fost cu Romanian Legion putin timp prin 2011 dar eream cam dezbinati. Pacat.

  • bob

    If CFC elements want to distinguish themselves, all they need do is take out well fitted, organized small gangs and give gf’s. All the while improving their fleet discipline, tactics, FC’s, and overall piloting. Players don’t have the same respect for blobbers as they do for groups who bring the good fights and come out on top in fights where they are outgunned. Get 15 to 30 guys organize a cohesive but flexible fleet, and roam. Do this almost daily and you will stand out, have a ton of fun and turn heads in the process.

    • Nyan Lafisques

      CO2 kind of does that, with their Torp Phoons and doing their own fleets with this, sadly they lack the number, but they have the right mindset.

    • Sigh

      We tried that tactic in curse but N3 wont figt at all in anything but caps.
      n3 are the worst blobbers in eve.

  • beenaroundabit

    I normally don’t post on these sites, but for this I have something to say. During my eve career , I have NEVER fought on the side of the goons in any major fight I have been i. I have always been against goons, from my 4th month in this game until now. Many times, an alliance I have been a member of has folded, and the member corps, when looking for a new home, usually had the same things to say about the CFC and RZR. That every member corp I have been in says they would never join the goons, but if they HAD to join the CFC, they would go for RZR, as they are part of the CFC, but they are not Goons. RZR has it’s own identity, and I think it always has, which always made me wonder why RZR was in the CFC to begin with. Every other alliance in the CFC is just a goon clone, minus BL who are new additions to the CFC, and RZR. BL is there for the money, but why has RZR stuck it out this long?

    • Seraph IX Basarab

      They’re pragmatic. But I also believe GENTS have a strong identity and to an extent so does FA.

      • Manks

        I don’t think it’s a propaganda statement at all, rather a third party perspective cleverly looking at the culture fit of the CFC. Don’t forget that Razor are ex NC and like it or not they will always dislike Goons for allowing the old NC to die, they are full of ex MM who like me haven’t forgotten how reliable Goons were/are.

    • RagingRelaxation

      seraph if you cant see this as shit attempt at propaganda your pretty fucking stupid to think anyone is going to take your efforts seriously

      • RagingRelaxation

        really “why has RZR stuck it out this long?” LOL what better option does that better then shit alliance have? N3? hahaha… i forget how many dumb 16 year olds play this game

        • Seraph IX Basarab

          You don’t have to use harsh language to get your point across. I actually find it that by writing in a calm and neutral manner, people tend to take your words into consideration far more often than otherwise.

          • RagingRelaxation

            try using words strong along in a sentence that relate to realty and people will really start to consider your thoughts more.

          • Seraph IX Basarab

            Perhaps I am naive or have not found the proper strong words to use!

          • Shadoo`s Eyebrow`s

            start writing in english with no mistakes mate way to make urself look a fool

          • RagingRelaxation

            dont sacrifice your integrity dancing around other peoples feelings you little bitch 🙂

          • Seraph IX Basarab

            Very charming! 😉

  • Sieveboy

    Fact checking is a good idea: Gents was given Vale of the Silent, not Tribute. They may have been offered Tribute, but Gents leadership wanted Vale and got it.

    • Seraph IX Basarab

      They may have Vale now, but initially they were in Tribute, then shifted to Vale, or am I wrong?

      • Sieveboy

        Gents has 2 systems in Tribute. They were initially based in Fountain, then Delve, Cloud Ring, Branch and finally Vale.

        • Seraph IX Basarab

          Maybe i’m just remembering them taking the sov during the Tribute war before transferring or i’m just plain mistaken. My apology.

          • Sieveboy

            Not a problem, have a nice day.

  • Ciaphas Cyne

    its cute watching n3 try their hand at propaganda

    • Seraph IX Basarab

      How is this propaganda? I’m merely discussing an issue that presented itself.

      • Ciaphas Cyne

        you are feeding into a very concentrated effort by n3 to try their hand at pys-ops.

        its good you are! you guys need to give it a shot. its just noticeable, thats all.

        • Seraph IX Basarab

          By discussing a very real issue which I saw on the mittani’s propaganda site? Should we hush hush about it and pretend it doesn’t exist? Also do you realize i’m not part of any N3 entity? I’m part of a wormhole mercenary alliance?

          • Ciaphas Cyne

            while i appreciate your desire to express your neutrality, we both know which side your on. I would say im a good deal more neutral than you, considering I dont write columns for an N3 website. Then again I used to be in PL and have rl friends who played in MC.’s hayday.

            i guess if i hadn’t read the comment at the time, a week ago, when it was posted on TMC Id be less suspicious of its re-posting here. I’m also against the trend that twitter and forums have become sources for news stories in real life. Not your fault.

            Anyway, its clear to me that the word has gone down to hit at Razors moral and try and potentially either flip them or force them to fold under pressure. The party-line being echoed in these posts and comments is undiluted and Ive noticed it. I cant help that.

            I just dont think it would merit any discussion if n3 didnt think they could spin it to some psy-op stuff. they are new at it and so im not surprised that their first attempts are rough at best. we cant all be mittens haha.

            aside from that, has anyone confirmed that the person posting on tmc is the actual FC they claim to be? its not hard to fake a disq account.

          • Seraph IX Basarab

            Woah, that’s some serious tinfoil right there. Razor wouldn’t fold in due to this simply because they have no alternative. It is in their best interest to remain with GSF. Remember, NCdot and Razor haven’t ever been on good terms since the days of the Old Northern Coalition of Morsus Mihi, Majesta etc. I really doubt my little dinky article would sway an entire alliance to leave the most successful coalition in the history of Eve. I think you are giving everyone a bit too much credit. In any case I routinely point out numerous faults and mistakes within N3 and when I do that I have someone from their side whining about how I must be some sort of Goon fan boy. You can believe whatever you want however as you are free to do so. EN24 may attract some pro N3 sentiments but that’s because there are literally no alternatives. And it isn’t as if “TheMittani.com” is exactly fair and balanced either. They’re the mouth piece of the CFC and they’ll post things advantageous to them and ignore other stories such as when they were banned off of reddit for abusing their upvote system to boost viewers on their site.

          • Ciaphas Cyne

            “Razor wouldn’t fold in due to this simply because they have no alternative. ”

            i never said they would. again, its cute, but obvious.

            just that n3 is trying. its not a conspiracy. its just the party line has been handed down and now we are seeing it trickle its way into all corners of the interwebs.

          • ChemoInc

            Your posting gave me cancer.

          • Ciaphas Cyne

            good.

          • Seraph IX Basarab

            Ok if you want to believe i’m some N3 psy ops agent by all means,

          • Ciaphas Cyne

            no no no not at all. i dont believe that. you just report the news and with it a party line. that makes you no different than every other news reporter in history. dont worry so much about it.

          • Seraph IX Basarab

            You’re being ridiculous. I don’t have a party line. Please inform yourself a bit more.

          • Deltaguy

            And we know what side your on you slobbering idiot. You preach article neutrallity then your not in any of your posts.

          • Seraph IX Basarab

            I don’t see someone as part of FW wish to defend the CFC in such a manner without having some alternative interests that align with the CFC. Even so I’m not sure the name calling furthers the discussion in any meaningful manner. I hope you don’t mind me saying so.

          • Jakes

            Who doesn’t have a FW alt?

          • lulz

            Of course more N3 people visit this site then they do a site that’s purpose is to pass out kool-aid to CFC pubbies,

            By
            and large TMC staffers have only themselves to blame as they purposely alienates readers not of
            CFC with spin, although the naming of the site could have
            been better, but I suppose ego stroking is more important. lol…

          • Tiago D’Agostini

            No one is neutral. Never was and never will be, be it in eve or real world. Humans are not neutral by nature, rocks are neutral, trees are neutral, but anything with emotions cannot hope to be neutral.

            Complainign about some article writter not being neutral is liek complaining that a priest not being skeptical enough.

          • Ciaphas Cyne

            no, its not. i disagree. also…i never complained about what en24 is

          • Tubrug1

            Wait, The Mittani has a propaganda site? What’s it called?

          • Seraph IX Basarab

            While there is some wonderful content there, let’s just call a spade a spade.

          • Simon pieman

            Ha TMC’s goblin posts on both sites, welcome young man.

    • -cfc- is shit

      hurrderr someone who isnt part of n3 but still n3 propaganda

  • Ming Tso

    I think it’s interesting to note the identities of the different alliances in the CFC:
    Razor are active PvPers,
    Gents are the dudes who can’t handle EMP
    FCON literally have no identity at all- (go on, name anything that FCON has done that distinguishes the alliance as anything other than “a way to get into Goonswarm” or anyone of note in FCON)
    LAWN are the new TRIBE
    Li3 are the same as they were in TEST
    EXE has Inquisitor Kitchner, so they cool
    SMA are incompetent
    FA is that red haired woman woman who did their alliance panel

    • Manks

      FCONs identity diminished a long time ago before they ever joined CFC. Their identity really and truly ended in Pureblind when they were part of the NC under Mostly Harmless. From there the core members had all but left and what is remaining are terrible IRC corps and a smattering of local bashing goonpets. It is a real shame they couldn’t pull it together as once they had a true sense of identity and wanted to be a major player. The good old Provi days were the best times.

      • People talking

        Interesting, have you noticed a lot of EMP is ex IRC?

        • Marcus

          Pretty much every alliance minus the ethnic group alliances are ex-IRC to that is not saying much. Black legion is like 60% ex-IRC.

          • Manks

            FCON have Cosmoboy, nuff said!

    • Fcon is know in the CFC as the alliance that gets their titans killed.

    • anonymous

      FCON’s identity is the CFC alliance that is best at losing titans.

  • arkady

    Lyris isn’t going anywhere. He is one of our most beloved and respected FCs. His comments were tongue in cheek and it is hilarious when people on the outside looking in aren’t able to see this.

    • Seraph IX Basarab

      Usually tongue in cheek jokes don’t run that long. Seems like a case of DCU II

      • reality

        please note: the one who wins writes the history… thus the winner of this fight, should it actually finish, will write the history. until then, its no longer dcu ii. its a damage control ii. ccp removed the unit term in the name.

        • Bantor

          “hey guys lets not talk smack till the fighting is over”

        • mustbenew

          herecy,next thing you are gonna say the caldari navy raven is no longer a CNR

          mutant,must be purged 🙂

    • Provi Miner

      it sure didn’t look that way from the rzr stand point lol. tounge and cheek only works when both sides get the joke.

  • Their is More to Razor

    I think something that I have come to realize about Razor is that they admire N3… and have done for a very long time. They follow N3 around like a puppy and try and even fly their same fleet concepts. Ishtar fleet, for example. They almost never smack N3 in local as well…. ever…. I think this is more then just a no talk in local policy. I think Razor wishes they could be a part of N3 but they have just never had the choice. Although Razor are weak PvPers, I have stopped to admire this attitude of their several times over the last couple of years. Their actions show they want to be good PvPers and even want to be part of N3, they just have been a victim of circumstances and have never had that option.

    Anyone who understands EvE knows the CFC only exist because Mittens expolits EvE players naivatey to creat an audience for his web site where 95% of the “articels” are in fact paid for advertising and not articles at all… It never ceases to amaze me that people are so easily tricked into reading advertising without even know that that’s what it is. You have to admire Razors desire not to want to be a part of this.

    • doyouevengoat

      “They almost never smack N3 in local as well…. ever….”

      There are no words for how stupid your comment is.

      • Goaty

        Does the truth hurt much?

      • PLT

        Lol.. you know RZR has a no talking in local except gf’s right?

    • Tiberu Stundrif

      Wat?

    • dolan

      there is imply no other alliance that we hate like nc. so yeah we admire n3 LOL

    • are you in Razor? Razor is full of awesome guys but they still have the same attitude they had when they ruled the old NC. They are kind of elitists. Not overly assholes but you can tell that they take pride in their ability to fight. Which makes their culture align more with N3 but i have yet to see anything that would make them want to join the guys that killed the old NC and took their home away.

      • Kamar Raimo

        Just for the record, Goons did not destroy the old NC, the DRF did. Goons just decided to not help them out because Mittens hates fighting against Russians.

        • sorry if i implied that goons killed them. i did not mean to.

          • Kamar Raimo

            NP man.

  • DrkyDrky

    BoB/Kenzoku/IT already killed Goons & co. once, but it has only made the latter stronger… Ultimately, CFC’s greatest enemy is not an external enemy, but themselves.
    The only thing holding this gigantic coalition together is the fact that they have a common enemy (N3PL) that is forcing its members to look away from any internal issues and to focus on external threats. So in a sense, N3PL is playing a crucical role in keeping CFC intact. =]
    IF N3PL lost this war and they collapse, I’m willing to bet that any internal disputes that is currently insignificant will become a hot potato later on. Which in turn may start serious internal conflicts that will eventually cause the coalition to fail. It is highly likely that entities like BL. & whatever will remain of PL/NC. will take advantage of this situation when it happens.
    2014 will be an exciting year for nullsec

    • #yoloswaglord mad-dog2020

      It’s all well and good to say they have internal conflicts, would you mind actually listing some ‘coalition destroying’ ones?

      • kalle

        a single enemy can unite enemys like N3PLNC, but after the great war PL will restart the hunt for all supers, except NCs like they always did. PL needs minions to defend their renter income but they also need their minions to get content to keep their members happy.
        so, the N3 minions work really hard right now to back up their own enemy.

        LOL

        • #yoloswaglord mad-dog2020

          Uhm. What?

          If N3 didn’t ally with PL they’d be fucked right about now. I hope you’re not trying to say that they shouldn’t be allied with PL because ‘one day they will get fucked over by PL’, cause that’d be a bit dumb

  • Zloco

    CFC is made up from Goons (FA, SMA, CO2, GENTS, EXEC, LI3, FCON etc.) and RAZOR. That is my humble opinion.

    • somegoon

      did you just count all goon pets as goons?

      • Zloco

        Yeah basically. They don’t got their own brain. Don’t think with their heads for themselves. So yeah, it is all Goons, except RAZOR.

        • Shadoo`s Eyebrow`s

          lol razor dont have there own brain they die when pappa mittenz isnt there to hold there hand

          • #yoloswaglord mad-dog2020

            And with that spelling, you must be a part of Razor right?

  • LOL.

    its funny how lately a lot of people here and on mittens site say “evil BoB empire”, portraying the poor goons in their rifters as the good ones.

    Thats kind of ignoring the complete history of BoB, Goons and EVE.

    BoB was formed to counter Phoenix Alliance during the Great Northern War, back then under the name Cookies, Cake, Cream and Pie (Ticker: CCCP) in 2004. (They got renamed to BoB because CCP didn’t like the original name too much). Ironically that makes them the first Anti-Blob Alliance, during that time they learned a lot about fighting with smaller numbers against larger blobs, which lead to their t2 sniping doctrines and such, leading to their elitist reputation.

    Goons entered the stage a bit later. They then announced that they wanted to ruin the game (like they had done with other games than EVE before). No one took them for serious, since they where just a bunch of noobs in rifters.

    Then, one day an EVE Player by the name of Smoske died in a car accident.
    A Goon player by the name of Tetsujin decided that it would be a good idea to make a forum signature, where he had a stickman named smoske run over by a truck (imagine the outcry if someone had done that after vile rat’s dead…). This caused a forum thread where goons clearly stood behind Tetsujin (and several of them adopted the signature). You had goons join bob-chats just to write “SMOSKE SMOSKE SMOSKE” or “SMOSKE SUCKS” etc. In the end that caused Sir Molle (leader of BoB) to declare all out war on goons, and was the trigger to the conflict that held EVE in its grip for so long.

    You guys really *really* *REALLY* should learn your history before you call one side the “bad” side. Just because BoB was rather aggressive and expansionist later on, that doesn’t make ’em the bad guys, in fact they had to do that to fight the bad guys.

    • Ciaphas Cyne

      i think people hate bob because they cheated. not because of that other shit

      • #yoloswaglord mad-dog2020

        And because they were elitist pricks, regardless of any other shit that happened.

        • Noisrevbus

          Well, there seem to be a fair bit of liberal use when it comes to elitism claims from present-day CFC. Appearantly anyone not sided with you are elitist, wether they are opponents in the current war (N3, PL etc.), prior opposing forces now turned friends (A et. al.) or any no-name corporation-sized entity you can think of – they’re all ~Elite-PvP~.

          The saddening part is that such an overextending use of the claim take from some of the things that the GSF have positively contributed to this game. They have managed to change EVE-culture for the better in some regards, just not in the sense you believe it to be – in terms of corporate history or for present-war convenience.

          BoB were made the poster-boy for elitism in their time, though the elitism Goons, in any game or Internet community, have always tried to seek out is most often limited to bandwaggoning entities with poor reruitment policies and a desire to prove themselves (fotm-fgts).

          You don’t have to trot too many years back in time to see a budding PL sided with both the Swarm and the Russians in the RSF and then being widely regarded as one of the better small-gang roaming entities without as much “elitism” as the older more established groups with the same playstyle. In fact, many of the old typical elite-PvP groups were very far from elitist and allowed alot of new players to join and learn the in- and outs of the game. Most of the things that today meet alot of surface ridicule (like KB’s and KD ratios were tools used very differently in the recruitment processes of old – not everyone had the shallow approach that it is written off as today – it’s yet another example of how it was rarely the best established groups who had the most shallowly elitist approach).

          That’s one downside of all this blatant prop, that the history of the game is being lost in all the noise and some of these things that everyone used to know come as a surprise to many newer players today. If someone is to win EVE it has already been achieved since all three remaining blocks today are each headed by one member of the 2008 RSF (GSF, SOLAR and PL).

      • LOL.

        Another misconception:

        BoB did not cheat.

        T20, a CCP employee gave ’em blueprints that they where not supposed to have – once they realized what was going on, they actually reported it.

        A while later parts of the conversation about what they got (and what to do with it) where leaked by kugutsumen, after he hacked their forum. By that time BoB did not have any of those blue prints anymore, and CCP was already aware of what was going on. (But obviously that part of the story is another part that propaganda likes to skip.)

        Personally i think BoB leadership handled stuff quite well back then, by not stirring up shit. And Kugutsumen acted irresponsible by stirring up shit about a situation that was already resolved. (I’m not going to start talking about the ethics involved in hacking another alliances forum – there is a line between having a spy in leadership (imho ok) and actually hacking a forum)

        • LOL.

          also, uhm remember the fw-exploit goons used for over half a year? and how in the end they even got rewarded for reporting themselves?

          • Arno Nym

            Uhm, to state what you forgot:
            1. Mynnna and others from the GSEWC told CCP that their plan with FW is broken.
            2. They posted on the forums how to make billions with FW if these changes go live
            3. They got told by CCP that they are wrong and it wouldn’t happen
            4. The changes go live
            5. The “exploit” happens, just as they said on the forums, they reported it again with actual numbers to CCP
            6. Only then CCP said, oh, ups, yeah, we should change that.

          • uhm..

            you are mixing up iterations

          • Shadoo`s Eyebrow`s

            it never lasted 6 months maybe erm like a few weeks if that

        • wtf pussy

          hacking forums is legitimate out of game tool

          same as ddos of comms and the like

          if you cant do it go play tetris

          • tryhardertroll

            I was about to post something along the lines of “it’s actually forbidden by law. You know, RL laws and stuff.” but then I realized that nobody could actually be that stupid. So: 2/10, try harder, wannabe-troll.

          • wtf pussy

            actualy internet laws are a joke in these parts,so why wouldn’t you get ddosed or hacked?

            even if your goverment does try to press charges they will end up with an insurmounteble mountain of paperwork anyplace east of Berlin

            no troll here,we actualy do that

          • tryhardertroll

            Then you are taking your internet spaceships WAY too seriously.

          • wtf pussy

            we agree to disagree on that point 🙂

            also for the police to do something about “internet crimes” they would have to first understand what you are talking about,and nobody with education that would actualy know something relevant would not end up with a dead end job like being a policeman 🙂

            don’t know how it works it your parts but seems pretty normal to me 🙂

          • tryhardertroll

            Well, let’s just say, that using said means to overpower anyone in a game won’t make you an example of sportmanship in my eyes. 😉

          • Dirty Rotten Sneaky Bastard

            The only problem you face on that then would be if you attempted to hack the system of a cyber security specialist, then you would have a destroyed computer.

          • Kamar Raimo

            Yeah, it’s also considered a crime, but I guess you are just gangsta enough to not give a shit about that.

        • lol

          yeah ok. they still kept the bpos

    • Zloco

      Yeah i know about the SMOSKE story. The sad part is that those kind of actions were even encouraged by the Goons leadership.

    • eveusedtobefun

      we dislike bob because of the elitism and the T20 crap

      same as nobody likes PL for being dicks,they just dont have a BPO incident

    • it really just shows how good Goons are are marketing and branding. If you say something over and over again people will start to believe it.

    • Seraph IX Basarab

      Wonderful to see some Eve history here.

    • Kamar Raimo

      Damn, I didn’t know that! TBH I used to like the Goons for a lot of their trolling antics, but that is just in extremely bad taste.

      • Eve History = drama

        This is eve where galaxy wide conflicts involving thousands can be started with words like, ” Dude you’re girlfriend is a crazy bitch”

        • Kamar Raimo

          Yeah, ok, but that plays in a different category than provoking your enemy by making fun of the fact that one of their corpmates and possibly even a friend died.

  • mercfromabove

    good read. The problem with eve is it has too many ego’s. N3, CFC, who ever else… we all have them in our groups and they are always the ones that cause shit (and battles showing off giant battle penis’s)

  • 80081355

    This article was written for the sole purpose of attempting to promote discord amongst the alliances of the CFC. As an outsider this is blatantly obvious. The authors ‘I know everything, heed my words, holier than thou’ writing style smacks of try hard attention seeking. Why this author, a nobody, in a three man corp of an alliance of no discernible merit, would choose to spend so much time analyzing a coalition of which he has no part of only backs up my first statement.

    • guest

      You are invited to write better articles.

    • Seraph IX Basarab

      You’re about as neutral as our mothers are virgins. It’s flattering that the thought police has come on over to work on damage control.

      • #yoloswaglord mad-dog2020

        My mother is though.

    • qwer

      Somehow your comment made me think of medieval church when Galileo was just doing observations about world.

      As far as I see, it was pretty neutral and well thought out article. But I guess that’s the problem.

      • neutral… ROFL

        “Where once they swarmed around the tall walls that BoB had put up,
        mocking them for their decadence of rental programs, and elitism, the GSF now find themselves within their own walls, with their own
        decadent rental program and it seems also engaging in their own level of
        elitism within the CFC.”

        He literally called he goons BoB, you can’t get more anti goon then to refer to them as BoB.

        • qwer

          If we are precise, he didn’t call goons literally BoB. I don’t really know how else you can state that pretty funny observation any more neutrally.

          BoB thought that they are good at flying with spaceships, goons think that they are good making the game suck for their enemy. Goons grunt’s ass can outplay enemy in “Who can take more of this shitty blueball-nofight-then-bombersovgrind shit”.

          Tbh, this whole BoB thing is getting so old that GSF is sounding more like a religious cult than EVE alliance when ever they use it as a political/motivational tool.

  • anon

    I’m sorry, i can’t hear you over the sound of how defined and awesome our culture is.
    Please try harder next time. Then some people might actually believe you.

  • Winet

    this is news…..

    • Seraph IX Basarab

      This is an analysis. News tell you about stuff that has recently happened. This doesn’t really do that. It’s more like a 20/20 or 60 Minutes type thing.

    • Ex-Eve vet

      Get ready to see TMC getting all excited with all those Darkspawn systems now free for grab.

      • Ex-Eve vet

        LOL…its already happening!

    • Guido

      on TMC, this would have gone in a section they call “features”. it works well, but i actually kind of like the single-timeline of having all news stories in one main homepage like riv does here, as a daily browsing experience.

  • Gen

    “Burn the heretic. Kill the mutant. Purge the unclean.” ~ Lyris Nairn

    Thats from Warhammer 40k, not from that Lyris douchebag.

    • Homophobic John

      Nah, Lyris said it before, Sarcastically, quoting warhammer 40k in an attempt to be funny. Ongoing jokes at “kick RZR” started up after his comment on the article.

      • Random CFC Grunt

        RZR are bros, kick Waffe

        • Homophobic John

          Go back to the time out chair guy who i assume is from FCON.

  • Capt Bri

    Good read. I personally think CFC member alliances are closer nit than you may think. People are trying to grow discord in an attempt to hurt the coalition during this war. Do not fall for it. As for Lyris… no one knows what he thinks or what his plans are but himself.

    • Overblown Overblown Overblown

      Lyris is pissed that Razor do not join his Siege fleets….. NUFF SAID 🙂

  • Dudebro

    I think this article can be sumerized very easily:
    Brave Newbies are the new Goons
    Goons are the new BoB
    N3 are the same N3

    • Jungle Jim

      I find it funny how every alliance has to do what Goons say and fight for Goon territory yet Goons will allow other alliances to die alone and lose territory without a second thought, the way they did with Morsus Mihi (lol). Goons care about themselves, that’s it, the other alliances such as Razor, Gents, FA, EO are simply fodder they use because those alliances believe they are part of a grander union and don’t realise they are suckers.

      • Candycrush online

        MM joined goons like BoB joined NC.

  • sun

    What happened with Retirement Club (the last known reincarnation of BoB)?

    • yoghi

      they retired ofc

    • Kweetniet

      some joined Ncdot and killed your super fleet.

      • Ciaphas Cyne

        this is correct. most of the old guard that benefited from t20 hid themselves away into NC. and friends and even Goons. kinda like how german scientists were hushed into former enemies labs after the war. or how a sex offender grows a beard to keep from being recognized.. they know they are the scum of new eden and so have spent a good deal of time and effort to make sure you always think “theyre bob” when in fact, ex bob made its way into the power structures of both n3 and goons.

  • wwwwww

    “To an extent they make me think of the Austro-Hungarian Empire with its ruling class, serving ethnic groups such as the Magyars, Croats and Saxons” Stop just stop. This is not the time to use your knowledge of history to make yourself look smart.

    • Seraph IX Basarab

      Why does that bother you?

      • wwwwwwwwwwwww

        Cause someone had to point out using an obscure historical references, on a gaming blog, is neither appropriate or going to convey useful information. As someone who writes to a mass audience one would think you would try to avoid going over your readers heads.

        So making the article less readable to hide insecurities regarding your intelligence does bother me.

        Any more questions?

        • Your history

          Maybe you should have read more in middle school history class.

          • Seraph IX Basarab

            Heavens no, middle school history is terrible. But seriously, the historical part was a line or two at most. One could of skipped over it and not miss anything

        • Guido

          I am a gamer, and the written content having a semblance of high-intellect, as a variation in the overall melange of a website’s writers, works well for me. If every article were like this, then probably not, but its a nicely colored dash of class to our gang of cuthroats and pirates here in eve24.

          of course, thats my opinion, as varied as your own. I think the personal jab to the writer regarding his mental insecurities is kind of unneccesary and thankless to someone who obviously worked hard to contribute a piece of work here.

          in fact, its usually only someone that has never done that, created something and put it out there, that can be so easily critical.

          I was in CFC for two years and am now in N3 and I have to say that alot of this rang true for me and was a fun read. thanks seraph for the piece!

          • wwwwwwww

            Alas you agreeing me with his rather obvious attempt to “give himself an air of intelligence” while taking a slightly more subtle jab at me somewhat discredits your argument. At least in my oh so humble opinion. Had the sheer amount of effort into making such an obscure been no so great neither would be my supposing insult. One thing I have learned after a great deal of writing is criticism is good and criticism should stick. What better use of internet anonymity than to call him an idiot so he doesn’t try it again.

        • Seraph IX Basarab

          I like to be over people’s heads. Hopefully it lifts their gazes up just a bit. I didn’t know we had a vetted psychologist present. What do I owe you?

      • Commissar

        At the same time you’re using historical references to give yourself an air of intelligence, you’re completely missing gamer references that might give you some authenticity. ‘Burn the heretic’ is a line from Warhammer 40k, the king of nerdy future space games. Quoting it is more of an in-joke than a statement of policy. Maybe do a little more research on space games and a little less on 19th century geopolitics. I think you’ll find the CFC styles itself significantly more as a joking tribute to the Imperium of Man than warring Balkan states.

        • it went right over his head

          On a side note, purge the unclean and kill the mutant(s) are also fall out references from the brotherhood of steel and enclave factions, it’s funny to see how good he is with ancient history but the same guy writing an article about a game he plays on a gaming news site doesn’t catch any of the three gaming references from 2 hugely popular gaming franchises in a quote and takes it all at face value and uses that to make a case for why someone may need to be burned at the stake to calm the natives in the north. I think the writer needs an even bigger tinfoil hat than he already has.

        • Seraph IX Basarab

          I think you are focusing too much on the quote and not enough on what was being said around it.

  • Rich dk

    Being the leader of Razor one of the 3 troika you are all wrong, if you wanna make a story about the real Razor and Razor within the CFC then please get hold of me in game, some of the comments made me giggle they really did thanks for the fun after a hard day at work!

    • Dograzor

      You better take him up on this offer Seraph 🙂 rich dk is indeed one of the glorious troika. *ALL WHO READ APPLAUD*

      P.s. if you want to hear the perspective of a RZR line member feel free to hit me up ingame.

  • Thomas

    When the CFC first announced renting they went completely overboard on the whole ‘we’re renting, but don’t worry we’ll treat them like crud’ angle to stamp home goon superiority and try to counter the idea that renting was ungoonish. Putting someone down and have them still forced to pay you money is the Goon ideal

    Then they realised that they weren’t actually going to get any renters if they did that and toned down the conditions a lot but I guess PBLRD is left over from that and is the remnants of the sentiment. I imagine a lot of the renters don’t know and those that do know don’t care because the CFC knows how to work everyone’s self-interest in their favour

  • GrouchyOldGamer

    Please post a Goblin article to wash away the taste of this one.

  • Tegiminis

    Painting TMC as “the CFC outlet” isn’t accurate.

  • Tempelman N

    On behalf of Bombers Bar I would like to say, Seraph XI is 95% of the time full of shit all the time =D as he is the ONLy charactor to ever be removed from the channel LOL

    • Patrick Kilroy

      What about Seraph IX?

    • Seraph IX Basarab

      You write too well to be Temp. Also anyone with a bbar mailing list can see there have been dozens of people removed over petty irrelevant things all the time. Nice try fanboy.

  • soker larson

    “GENTS were given **Tribute** after the war against Dotbros there and indeed their performance in the war was nothing to scoff at as far as skirmishing and harassment.”
    I found this an interesting read until I read this. According to dotlan they have a few systems in tribute, but I would say they actually were given Vale of the Silent.
    Seems like you really should fact check. Though I liked the article, I cant believe you to be a credible source because of this flaw.

    • Seraph IX Basarab

      Weren’t they the ones that took the sov in Tribute and transferred it to GSF before moving to Vale?

      • Winmatar

        Both Tribute, and Vale are considered some of the worst space in the game since the moons nerf, even when the moons were good, Gents didn’t get all the moons in the area, they were just lucky enough to pay for the sov. the moons happened to be in. Implying they were rewarded for their performance is in itself kind of a joke, as pretty much any NPC null you can eke out a better living in, and toy don’t have to be given it.

        • Seraph IX Basarab

          Tech may not be over priced as it once was but it’s in no way a joke. Still a valuable resource.

          • Winmatar

            You can run the POS, and still make a small profit. They are a joke yeah, and like I said Gents don’t get moon rights in the region they were rewarded. That’s not how the CFC works, they get to pay for the sov. in the region, but moon mining rights don’t come with the region.

          • Seraph IX Basarab

            I don’t pretend to know every bit of GENTS’ business but that’s insightful.