Until CSM8, the voting algorithm has always been first-past-the-post. It’s not a great system. It’s not terrible. But it does ensure that organized groups can easily trounce unorganized groups in getting their candidates through. Which is something CCP and the CSM want to move away from. They want the less organized to have some hope of getting through their candidates. Which is fine. As long as a proper voting system is to be implemented, one that doesn’t disenfranchise votes of the organized. (Players organizing should always be encouraged.)
There’s been some call for a single transferable vote system. Twice, though, CCP Veritas has mentioned (enthusiastically) the Schulze method (or perhaps the Schulze STV, where multiple winners are determined, as in CSM elections.)
Hans seems suddenly concerned and is asking the community to post in the following thread, their thoughts on a new voting system. I’m assuming because CCP is going ahead with voting system reform, without CSM or player input.
I can’t say I’m particularly surprised. I would be very surprised if it wasn’t the Schulze system being implemented. Veritas seemed super keen on Schulze; it’s a non-trivial algorithm, and Veritas is attracted to non-trivial problems.
I don’t think we’re going to get a lot of say in the matter. As fussed as I probably should be, I’m not feeling all that fussed about the prospect of a new voting system. I just hope that CCP is not going to assume this is their panacea, and that increased voter awareness and education is no longer needed.
What I would like to see, is all the voting results released after the election. It’s not a privacy issue, because you release each vote, not who made the vote. It allows independent verification of the results. It ensures the algorithm was coded properly, and that the system is implement properly. Voting systems require oversight. This is certainly no skin off CCP’s back and has no privacy concerns. Each vote is anonymous. And releasing the data is not much more than a dump of the voting tables, a few hours work at most to retrieve and release the data. (Hell, you can even get people playing with the results using different voting systems, to see how different systems capture different results.) One more piece of transparency, creates more faith in the playerbase.
You can read more of Poetic Stanziel’s opinions at his Poetic Discourse blog.
Please read the Following very carfully —–>>>>
THE COUNCIL OF STELLAR MANAGEMENT IS A JOKE!
The biggest enities in the game get 2 trips a year to Island to see what coming out so they can position there ALTs to capitalize on it. And then it just so happens the biggest Cheaters – Scammers – Metagamers are one the CSM. An now after years of screwing over anything that moves in the game, Now they have turned over a new leaf and care about the rest of us. Please, go tell your grandma that story.
CCP has all the tools for verbal feed back. They have Eve-Voice (which can be use to talk to random players – CEO's – Alliance Leaders), Forums, And once a year they have Fanfest. Maybe they Should also have mini-fanfests around diffent parts the world to get to see more players who can't afford the cost to go to Iceland but can afford to drive alittle to get to a mini fanfest. But hey that would make sense so why would it be done.
Goons gunna win.
Crappy whiny CSM's like the Eve U guy hopefully wont get in again.
As much as I dislike darius, there's a chance he'll get in again from "OMG if I get CSM I'll give you a free plex!" in jita again, retards be 'tarding.
But really, no one cares about how the voting works. People only care about who wins. (and little about that)
Check out crossingzebras.com
A podcast where all csm8 candidates gething a 35 mins speaking time. Over who they are and whot they stand fore.
Why not really represent the real world? I advocate Vote Vouchers that a actual objects in the game, as much as plex. Each active account gets one (like the gifts that CCP occasionally shells out).
Players can use as many vouchers to vote as they own and they can sell them on the market. This means, someone who really cares about votes (a rich Goon, say) will purchase as many off the market as he can. The majority of players who see the CSM as a useless marketing trick of CCP will be able to sell their votes and make ISK.
This is not so dissimilar to the real world where politicians spend advertising money to purchase votes from the uninformed masses.
Lastly, this being EVE, one could implement specific voting stations – means, very large numbers of Vote Vouchers need to be carried across New Eden. Pirates would love this….
Holy fucking shit. We have truly gone full fucking retard. And I tend to not post using language like that but that level of severe chromosomal damage displayed by the respondent is staggering and warrants use of the word fuck a few times. Lets see here: why not hand our Ripple to voters in low income areas and escort them to the polls? Always good for democracy. Maybe we should allow the purchase of votes for plex or microtransactions. Why should I pay another lazy or disinterested player for his unused votes when I can just buy more voting power direct from CCP?
You sir, are an imbecile.
I got paid $20 to vote for Obama.
I am glad that you got your heart rate and blood pressure up – almost as healthy as exercise, so keep it up. To be quite honest, I was fishing for a troll and thank you for complying. Just to be clear: I was not serious. I just wanted to test the water with something so completely out of whack that makes all other approaches look almost reasonable.
My personal opinion is and stays the CSM is mostly about creating the illusion that players have some form of control over the environment they spend their time and money in. That is a fair marketing play from CCP and as such I congratulate them for pulling it off. So, in this context, any scheme of purchasing vote vouchers would of course break the immersion and CCP therefore can't allow it.
Again, yes, I was trolling a bit and I apologize if you burst a vessel or something.
No blood vessel broken. You caught me with your buying voting rights during a bad day at the office. Nothing more really. But then again, trolls are to be smashed.
As for my thoughts about the CSM, I think they have a place and that place is they have no control. They are a sounding board. The unwashed masses of players have no communal voice and never will. Too many voices and too many trolls for CCP to wade trough the shit. So the CSM does what it can to bridge that gap. It's better than nothing, but some would disagree with that too.
Glad we got that cleared but I disagree slightly with your statement that CSM gives the players a voice. If CCP needs the CSM to tell them what players want they are truly in a sorry, sorry place. EVE like no other game has a vocal blogosphere, has several fori (is that really the plural of forum?) and – above all – has their own in house statistics office for nothing else but to monitor what people (like to) do in their game. Sure it takes time to do read and integrate it. Smart move on CCP's part to outsource what every other company considers a core corporate activity to their paying customers.
Last resort, CCP's CFO will tell them what they are doing right and what they are doing wrong on a monthly basis. The beauty about free market enterprise is that success is very, very easy to measure.
" the CSM is mostly about creating the illusion that players have some form of control"
Since january we have CSM members telling us how now they are being included in the development loop, both in the long term planning and (soon to be) in the sprint planning.
How much more control do you think they should have? To be allowed to sit on a developer machine and write the actual code? To be given definite authority on what and how things are implemented?
Oh, I get it, just another troll. Never mind.
Sorry, one more: how the fuck does your vote voucher idea represent the real world? Do you live in Uganda or Detroit?
Confirming he lives in California
Do we really need to get all that complicated and create vote trading algorithms? Is not pure democracy what so many of you anti-electoral college buffoons in the US have been clamoring for? One man, one vote, add them up and pick your winner. Does is play to the strengths of the organized "parties"? Sure it does. But short of giving away seats at the table, the organized will always win out over the unorganized.
The current system need not be scrapped. But perhaps we can do something so that the 300 guys go vote for their buddy or vote for a guy with a decent message, but is never going to get enough votes to compete, dont just throw their votes away.
Now since I shit all over the guy with the tradeable/buyable vote voucher idea, I'll put an idea out there rather than just knocking down the thoughts of others.
Keep it simple: if we can have a multi-weekend alliance PVP tournament, we can have more than a single vote. Move to a primary system whereby votes are cast to shorten the list down to viable candidates. This first vote would relive the riff-raff, pretenders and legitimate people who just don't have the ability to contend for a position against the better organized candidates. Some potentially good people may be lost here, but they would have been lost anyway. The goal is to not lose the votes that were cast for them. The second voting phase would then include only those candidates who passed some reasonable threshold for inclusion. All accounts then get to vote again for candidates who have proven they have a legitimate shot at being elected.
And what about the CSM Chairman: I propose the chairman be elected, not by the popular vote, but by the members of the CSM. It is simple and gets the job done. It also allows the members to decide who they feel is best positioned for the job rather than the rabble who voted in the general election. For the next 12 months it is these individuals who much work together on the CSM. Why not allow them to choose the chairman.
I don't know bout any maths.
I DO think that the voting process should be fully integrated an to IN GAME process.
Allow candidates to purchase time for ads on the Captain Quarters Big Screen.