The yearly CSM debate is underway again. Why does a person have to reveal their real-life identity to be on the CSM? Is this a requirement that is still necessary? Was it ever necessary?
CCP do not seem to want to budge on the issue. Not a single centimeter. (Which is less than an inch.)
CCP Xhagen, the dude who’s responsible for the CSM, trots out his two standard answers every year. The CCP justification why the real-life reveal is important.
Accountability.
What does that even mean? Accountability to whom? CCP? CCP already knows the real-life identities of every player, whether that information is made public or not. If a CSM does something bad, like reveal NDA info to the public, then CCP can shitcan them from the CSM and from the game. A public identity is not required. Accountable to the playerbase? If that’s the reason, it almost sounds like a veiled threat. With your real-life information at hand, the playerbase has the power to go after a CSM member who screws up. Keep the playerbase happy, you’ll have no problems with harassment and the like. That seems to be the argument Xhagen is making. And yet, how does one keep everybody happy? And why should accepting the threat of real-life reprisals from the playerbase be a CSM job requirement?
Someone should explain to me what Issler Dainze did wrong, on that day when a Goon followed her around New Eden spouting off personal details of her life. Where she lived. Her pet’s name. Is this the sort of accountability that CCP Xhagen was referring too?
Explain to me what Darius Johnson (pre-Sreegs) did wrong when somebody called up his place of business, trying to get him fired, all because he was a Goon, and apparently an internet spaceship bully. Is that the sort of accountability that Xhagen is after?
Explain to me what The Mittani did wrong (pre-Fanfest 2012) when Prencleeve Grothsmore released the address and phone number of The Mittani’s parents to the public. Is this the sort of accountability Xhagen is looking for?
Exactly what does Xhagen mean when he refers to accountability. He can’t be referring to player vigilantism, can he? Because that seems to be the only outcome to being out-of-game accountable to the playerbase. If a CSM sucks, not voting for them in a year seems like accountability enough, and I don’t need a CSM’s real name to not vote for them.
There’s the other argument, that if you’re an in-game thief or scammer, then having your real-life name attached to your in-game actions will force you to straighten up your act. Or he’s simply saying that CCP does not want thieves and scammers and corp thieves and gankers on the CSM. That hopefully the real-name requirement will discourage them from running.
Actually, the whole accountability argument is confusing, and I’m not really sure what point Xhagen is trying to make, because none of it makes much sense if given more than a cursory think-through.
Perhaps CCP employees should be accountable to the vagaries of the playerbase too. What? No? That would open them up to endless harassment? Then why put the CSM in that position?
Legalities.
Xhagen makes a fairly compelling argument here. That if CCP were to keep a CSM member’s name private, then they could be held legally responsible if that name were to be accidentally (or purposefully) released.
That makes a lot of sense, until you realize that CCP is already safeguarding the identities (not too mention credit card numbers) of every single EVE Online player. To simply continue to do what they’re already doing, doesn’t seem like much additional effort.
The CSM.
The CSM make a few arguments of their own, concerning the real-life reveal.
Trebor seems to argue that real-life identity makes one’s resumé verifiable. Which I suppose is true. Except, what resumé? How many CSM members used their real-life experience as part of their CSM campaign platforms? Can anybody tell me what Hans does as a living? Does his job qualify him to be a spaceship consultant? (Both are rhetorical questions, I don’t really want or need to know.) It’s a silly argument to be making, unless Trebor feels that programming Wizardry thirty-odd years ago qualifies him to consult to a 500 employee company. That real-life experience even makes a difference to Xhagen makes even less sense, since he has no control over who gets elected, so his opinion on somebody’s qualifications doesn’t really matter.
Alekseyev at least admits there is a problem, but also states that death threats are just part of the job description, and if you can’t handle a few threats and harassing comments, you shouldn’t run for the CSM. Obviously, the strongest case yet for the real-life requirement.
Seleene throws up his hands at the issue. CCP isn’t going to change their position. There’s no point talking about this. As defeatist as it is, this is the only position that has any rationale to it.
Qualifications.
There are a number of people with impeccable in-game qualifications who would love to have an impact on EVE Online, to make their arguments face-to-face with the developers, who have a strong passion for this game and the community.
These people will never run. They understand the playerbase. They understand the effects of harassment. They won’t sacrifice their careers, their professional reputations, on a game. They won’t put their personal details out in front of a playerbase known for stepping across the line. A playerbase known for taking things too far.
You can read more of Poetic Stanziel’s opinions at his Poetic Discourse blog.
Welp it's a case like was stated. You know the risks of running. If your not willing to take those risks then don't run.
In terms of those players that have good input but don't run, there are places where they can put those ideas forth to CSM members. Whether or not they get read or even taken into consideration may be indicative of the problems that face the whole idea of the CSM.
- Sure you can run for a senator, but we'll have to chop off your legs and replace them with protheis.
- But why?
- Just because.
Hmmm, since i *want* to be a senator, sure thing.
or
Well, i´m not *that* excited about the job to do what it takes.
Choice and consequence, ever heard ?
Don't you find the choice-consequence link in this case rather… how should I say it to avoid the word "retarded"?.. surreal maybe?
If you go 60 miles above the speed limit into a concrete wall, the conequence is to become rather squished. Because that's how natural laws work.
If you take a bread from a shop, the conequence is paying money, because this is how economics work.
If you run for a senator, the consequence is getting you legss chopped of, because… Because what? That's how someone's twisted mind works? What's next? If you want to wear a red shirt, you have to sacrifice your child to Ishtar, because that's a very logical and obvious consequence?
Having your legs chopped off is not a test of strength, not a test of ability, not a test of responsibility, not a requirement to be phyically able to perform your job. It's an arbitrary whim of a batshit insane joker.
1 – I´m not arguing about the legitimacy of the criteria. I´m merely pointing out that this is how things work for now, so if you don´t wan´t to play by the rules, don´t start the game. If you cna´t handle it, drink milk.
2 – If i were to discuss the legitimacy of the real name issue, i don´t think it´s absurd. It says to the world "Hey, i have real players helping to run things" (Hahhahaha). It also gives a human touch to the process, i like the faces behind the characters, and if you want to become a public person (be it a politician, or a spaceship simulator politician), be prepared to get public attention (wanted and unwanted). And back to point one above.
Lets not forget that if we didn't know their identities it would be impossible to know if the same person have more than one seats in the CSM using multiple account and since most of players have more than one accounts it's is more than likely that would happen if you didn't know the face behind the character.
One more really good reason is that if we didn't know who the face is behind the character many and by many I mean more than 50% of the players would say "CSM is a joke, it is run by CCP and characters than some CCP employees have and that's why they do nothing. It's not like CSM does anything constructive right now but at least we know that it's because incapable EvE players are in it now.
P.S.The incapable part mean that they are just not up to the task right now and nothing more
You are voting for a person you know as a capsuler to represent your capsuler needs in a capsuler world. You are voting for him because you believe by his ingame and inmetagame actions he-the-capsuler is best suited to represent your needs. You are not voting for a doctor or a lawyer or a famous actor or a serial killer or a gay nigger from outer space. If he so wishes to gain credibility and some election points by disclosing his personal data, he has every right to do so, and CCP has the ability to confirm his claims since CCP still retains the undisclosed to the general public peronal data of all the CSM members (and, therefore, by the way, can tell if they are all the seame person).
As for the CSM is a joke part. It does not matter if all the CSM members are the same real life person or not (as I said, CCP can very much check and prevent this situation). It does matter whose interest do CSM members represent. Nothing stops 8 gusys from representing interests of a single person. It is very much possible that a single mental dude with split personality can be a better CSM than 8 Mittani bffs, for that matter.
And as for the incapable players. You have voted for them. Now you have to deal with them. Don't vote them in again, impeach them, think next time before you vote. Chew a lemon after reading a political propaganda bullshit and before voting. If you think the current CSM is incapable, it means disclosing personal data does not magically make it capable and is, therefore, unneceary, because the only think you can do with it is find where they live and eat their children. Which, contrary to popular opinion, does not constitute justice.
Negative.
I´m voting for a real life player, to participate in a political group that meets with real life developers, employees of a real life company, that makes one of the many products i consume with my real life money.
If i wanted to vote for a capsuleer in a capsuleer world, i would simply click "like" on his post in the Jita Park Speakers Corner and Assembly Hall, and hope that our mutual pixel interests would magically transform the world, like all those Avazz petitions, and the African children that recieves water every time someone likes the post on facebook.
You do not know him as a real life person. And you will not know him as a real life person by having his ID, home address or facebook page.
You can not judge his success as a capsuler representative by his real life success as a doctor. Just as you don't expect an olympic champion in swimming to be a good musician or mathematician because there is one completely unrelated field he is good at. You can not expect "I'm a successful lawyer so you should listen to me" to be a valid argument in a computer science debate.
Personal is not the same thing as important. Likable person is not the same thing as a person capable of doing the job.
This is a really stupid comment. It's almost like you didn't think about it for 5 god damn seconds or read the article you're replying to. Congrats!
Ron Sexxico for csm
If it keeps the author away from running for CSM than please keep that rule in place.
The CSM represent all the players, and they get some privilegies for it, allong with responsabilities…. this title, need that the elected member show his real face, and go to iceland talk to the CCP devs…. so, to be a csm member you should not hide behind a nickname and you should not offend the comunity… you should at last care about it… Don't forget that a MMO is not just a game, every player is a real-life person. And offending someone have consequences.
well said poetic. well said.
this is a non-issue
Meh. I know I wouldn't run for CSM while real names are a requirement because I'd risk passing up a job offer or promotion because a background check said "spaceship nerd!" But perhaps that means I wouldn't be as committed to the role as someone who doesn't care.
Yes, being one of the few elected to represent a portion of the 400,000 players of EVE would be terrible for your resume.
"he’s simply saying that CCP does not want thieves and scammers and corp thieves and gankers on the CSM. "
If the above were true how do you explain Darius III ?
If it keeps sperge lords like this from running so be it."Working as intended"
Frankly, I think it does change the way you handle yourself in regards to online gaming and interactions. There was a big issue a while back when I think it was Blizzard wanted to use everyone's real names on their forums and a huge rage erupted over it. People claim they wanted their anonymity to avoid personal attacks which I don't deny can and does happen, but what's usually not admitted is that most want it so they can continue being online keyboard warriors or idiots. Sticking your real name to it makes people, in some ways, more responsible for the things they say and do. If this has the same effect for CSM members than I'm all for them disclosing their real names.
By running for CSM, you are presenting yourself to be a public figurehead and representative for the needs and wants of real people with real names (only cloaked by internet aliases). You are not supposed to be there to play a game but to project the playerbase desires as to where the game is headed. If I'm going to be voting for that, I'd rather vote for them as a person then their ganker, scammer, or straight edge character.
Personally, and this is understandably my own opinion, I don't know why people are so fearful online of using their real names. If I go to a bar, I don't introduce myself as some random alias. In fact, the people at a bar are more likely to look for or find me given the close proximity to my home. So why is online so much different? Because online I'm as sexy as Jessica Biel or built like Steve Austin when in reality I'm more like Honey Boo Boo's mom or PeeWee Herman? IDK….
As a person that has had to leave the game for a brief period due to RL death threats from multiple in-game sources:
Never, under any circumstances, allow your private information to become public. If someone challenges this, go see your attorney. If you receive threatening communications out-of-game, go see your attorney. Don't call the police unless there is an imminent danger, don't ask for advice on a forum, just call your attorney and save any communication you have received for his review. It's well worth the few-hundred bucks.
Poetic…you're right for once!
All I can think is that its so that someone can't run twice under different character names or such shenanigans, but if they've given their real name to CCP that's pretty much moot anyway.
As a vigilante crime-fighter myself, I strongly believe in the rights of the CSM to maintain their own secret identities.
ron mexxico for csm
We'll see if James 315 runs also this year if the number gets upped to 2 :p
Well, please remove RL ID …
Our new CSM -> i.imgur.com/3LXQ25o.jpg
If you're unwilling to reveal your name on the internet while simultaneously offering to be the representative of real people giving their real money to partially support your internet spaceships council position, you've got a stick up your ass.
Real name's Parker Edwards. Game on. If there was something I didn't want known publicly available on the internet, that's my problem.
I think is was helpful to know that the Mittani was a lawyer, as all lawyers are cunts. Especially Mittens.
NERF TECH