A tiny group of players incorrectly predicted the demise of Dust 514 last month after games like Halo 4 and Black Ops 2 dramatically reduced the playerbase. While we understand that the casual shooter fan is often enamored with new, shiny, flavor of the week releases, we are still a little concerned with some shrinkage in regards to active players in closed testing. Players should be getting more excited as we inch closer to release, not less. This is a beta unlike any other but steps must be taken to excite closed beta participants a bit more. We’re addressing CCP here, as we understand that there are freezing, lag, crashes and other beta issues that are beyond your control and that a new build can’t be released every week, but there are still other strategies that can be used to keep people excited to play. The best thing to consider is the ability to change, earlier builds had dominant Heavies, higher health, Swarm Launchers that were Godly against infantry and the weekly SP cap has been widely discussed. Sometimes a path that is planned has to be altered because it doesnt mesh well in gameplay. As long as the Powers That Be understand that they can keep an open mind to making better decisions Dust 514 is in good hands. Here are a few of the other things we can see being improved.
1. Expand Grouping
– Here again this massive concept is being limited by its tiny squads and limited communication. Why can’t we follow our friends into matches yet? Where is the proximity chat? Why can’t we merge groups? Where are the higher level commanders and why don’t they have the ability to address squad leaders or every solider under their command? Four man groups simply wont do, and while the Team Chat feature is an option, how exactly do you tell non-squad members to join it? Let’s say the dropship pilot your gunning for needs to bank right or watch the swarm launchers to his left, how do you tell him? What about telling your LAV driver to watch out for the mines directly ahead? Is this really the kind of game where we can only ask our squadmates for ammo? Give mature players the ability to communicate on a more broad level and reject the notion that each squad is an independent entity. THINK TEAM. Players wont start to operate as a team until they have the tools to do so.
2. Keep Showing Progress
– We’ve heard wonderful things like swarmlaunchers will be fixed, we’ll soon see grid-based maps, a way to lie prone, a Daily SP cap and that hit-detection and gunplay will improve but its better to actually see these things in action. Our post NDA list of fixes has undergone so much editing because of the fact that things that were issues have been resolved. Bravo CCP, keep up the good work.
3. Keep Innovating
– Continue to do away with the dated aspects of the FPS genre. We love the persistence and consequences that finite gear and a true economy offers, never stop eliminating horrible mechanics like quick scoping, spawn camping and unbalanced weaponry and vehicles. 3rd person social areas and currency will change shooters forever. Very few games have ways for individual soldiers to highlight targets and few things are more tactical, give us that option in Dust 514. In short, keep pushing the envelope.
4. Bring Back Dev Blogs
– These must return. They served multiple purposes, one of them them was keeping fans without closed beta access excited about the game’s progress and they also told participants about future mechanics they would soon see. There’s nothing like getting a peek at the future of a title. We admit that resources certainly need to focus on crafting this title but keep in mind the buzz for this game is still being built and Dev Blogs serve a marketing purpose as well.
5. Start the Public Beta
– It may be time for a huge influx of players into this potentially revolutionary game. For all intents and purposes it seems like the next build will make the game infinitely better and it could be time for everyone to get excited about their forthcoming experiences in New Eden. Experiencing this game’s depth before release may be better than a great tutorial in terms of making players more comfortable. Consider opening it up to the public sooner than you anticipated.
6. Keep Communicating
– Playing in a true beta is both good and bad. Few of us have actually watched a game being crafted and tuned to perfection, so its great to see the progress but oftentimes players can grow impatient during the wait between the fixes and improvements. Its no one’s fault, the things this title is attempting are far beyond anything thats ever been done and fans of this depth are just ready to see it in action. We’ve coined the phrase “build fatigue” as a way to describe the point where players are tired of the flawed [and often abused] gameplay mechanics of an older build. As much as you can, please continue to keep fans in the loop in regards to what is being tuned, added or taken out and the ETA on new builds. You have also done a great job on the forums of having devs respond in threads and we’d hope this will continue. There’s nothing like hearing directly from the people who are building the game.
7. Expand
– The concept behind this game is massive and so to, must be the gameplay. 24 vs 24 is simply too small for a game of this scope and magnitude. With the available area on the maps shouldn’t we see more players? Hopefully 48 player matches are the smallest instances we’ll see in Dust 514. We’re crossing our fingers that EVE scale conflict isn’t far away.
8. Beta Events
– The Testers Tournament was simply a great idea, the newest event Get ISK or Die Trying would be a great idea if vehicles still weren’t badly imbalanced. Events have the potential to get gamers excited about new content and other specialty instances. Weekend events where players try new maps, get more ISK, test larger groups, try out new equipment, fly jets or compete against other corps is a great way to keep beta testers locked in and interested. That said, as testers we have to understand that the first duty of this beta test is not for us to to play before everyone else, its for the devs to work out the game’s issues.
9. Lift the NDA
– We defer to CCP to all thing related to the business and marketing of their product, we want to make it clear that all we offer are suggestions. Why? Because the risk is theirs and theirs alone. Its easy for someone with nothing at stake to chime in about how stupid a developer is for low weapon damage, slow strafe speed or releasing on a certain date. Only CCP has done the research that will determine if this title ultimately fails or succeeds. Although at this point we think the NDA is outdated at this stage. What Dust is offering is good enough for the general public to see. But its your call.
10. Friendly Fire
- In the end games that try to straddle the fence of hardcore and Casual so often fail. Why? Because you can’t please everyone thats why. This so often results in hybrid title that fully pleases no one and gives would-be fans aspects of a game they despise. Were there a lack of FPS titles this strategy could work but with the genre being flooded, this seems like a losing strategy. Look no further than the failure of SOCOM 4 for proof. Zipper tried hybrid gameplay that long time hardcore fans rejected for its casual elements and that COD fans never bothered with because their title had ALL of the mechanics they were familiar with. Given the learning curve, Dust 514 will be a niche title and CCP must embraced this. Trying to make the game too accessible and dumbed down could backfire horribly by alienating the hardcore crowd. EVE is all the proof anyone needs that hardcore mechanics can work. Early beta gameplay has shown us mercs who can shoot through their teammates to no effect, horribly inconsistent tank fire that doesn’t affect friendlies and few will forget the orbital strikes that only hurt the other team. Friendly Fire is one of the most basic dividers of casual and hardcore gameplay in FPS and we sincerely hope this title finds itself on the right side of that debate.
As always, we’ll continue to attempt to help push and publish ideas that innovate gameplay as much as we can. Have any ideas that need sharing? Be sure to contact us at [email protected]
- Magww
"A tiny group of players incorrectly predicted the demise of Dust 514 last month after games like Halo 4 and Black Ops 2 dramatically reduced the playerbase."
Why was that prediction incorrect?
It will be released, no doubt – just as it will fail without a doubt.
I know, how can you incorrectly predict the demise of something if the outcome hasn't occured yet. Let it release, then comment on its demise…
The game may have a skillpoint system and all the other fancy crap that CCP will try to distance themselves from other fps', the fact is that its still in first person, and its still a shooter, you'll get that influx of players from the fps scene that will come because its new, but then you can't say you're going to retain them where many others have failed.
Ccp should of let someone else make dust and ccp should of just done the API part of it.
Yes many of the younger people I talk to not only don't find DUST exciting, they find it to be a sad excuse for a BF 3 clone. So much was promised yet so little was delivered, yeah it's sort of like that's CCP's catch cry!
In a world where FPS genre games are a dime a dozen it was going to take something really special to snooker the playerbase & get them in & playing the game. Keeping them playing was going to always be a task as DUST just doesn't have that big of a variety of things for players to do & with the harsh penalties for dying it makes playing tedious to say the very least.
No I think CCP have kept up their great form in the way they are handling everything about DUST, & whom ever it is that is at the controls at CCP needs to be sacked to say the very least as well.
Yep I was the one who got flamed for saying that I thought it would fail, and IMO it already kind of has, Everyone I could contact through the test server was very unimpressed.
I talked to a Beta tester for PS2 and Dust and he said hands down it wasnt even a comparison. Sorry to say but onlyus Eve guys care that every item you select has a huge little description about why this Machinegun fires faster because its Minni and they prey and spray etc and how Ammar likes lasers and your fighting for slavers etc
Fact is FPS wise most people want to win, will have no allegiance to a race only what is best weapon. Think counter strike, who didnt buy and use a Deagle when they could? Or a AWP at long range?
Only we would care and truly appreciate why a gallente tank uses Rails and a Amarr lasers etc and by doing a console they eliminated A WHOLE BUNCH OF US
Guys , you know it has not been released yet. Its not finished, don't throw it to the wolves just yet.
Please stop the bitching about the game not being on p.c. n stuff , its really getting old after hearing it constantly over the year
Pretty sure he didnt say anything about it not being on PC, What he said is more along the lines of "Its a bad game and CCP should feel bad for trying to hammer their odd lust for ingame lore into a FPS"
But I'll totally go ahead and say for the millionth time CCP is shooting themselves in the foot making this console only. Anybody who says differently owns the console in question.
I own both a PC and PS3 yet I'm totally fine with it being a PS3 exclusive. CCP's business model is trying to not cannibalize their existing EVE fanbase while expanding into a market they haven't gotten into yet. I do agree the backstory on every piece of gear isn't necessary just yet. I think CCP should release things in this order: Feature (match type, PvE, other things) > Weapon/Vehicle > Map > Armor > Module > backstory/other stuff not critically important. They want us to test out the game yet they take forever releasing new builds. I don't care about fancy screenshots or concept art, I want the actual gear to use.
See how you own the console AND are ok with it? Thanks for proving the point though.
I'm ok because I understand their business model with it. If they didn't care about affecting the people who play EVE I'd say make it on PC too. You can't look at it from the view of a child who just wants everything, you have to look at it from a money making perspective. You can either sell only cherry pies to people or start making apple pies as well and get into another branch of pie eaters.
Im gonna hammer this home until people get this. Dust would not even get off the ground if it wasnt for the huge support ccp has gotten from sony. With the PS2 coming out so close to dust it becomes clear that sony restricted it to ps3 only so that ps2 didn't have the competition and could really get off the ground
"…and by doing a console they eliminated A WHOLE BUNCH OF US"
Please stop the bitching about us bitching that its not on PC, its getting old.
TBH is a sort of blessing to have it on PS3, a decent graphic card costs twice as much as a PS3 – I can also tribox my iMac, PC and PS3 for the full Eve Online/DUST experience ^__^
"Fact is FPS wise most people want to win, will have no allegiance to a race only what is best weapon"
Thats why dust players are called mercenaries, the background of the weapon shouldnt get in the way, but it does provide a deep storyline for FPS players who might also be interested in EVE.
Its a terrible game stick to API stuff
It seems all of the above commentors hate the game and what ccp is trying to do. Right now as has been said multiple times before the game is in beta. This means for all those dumbasses out there that the game is being build piece by piece. No game ever released a beta of game where it was completely finished.
I for one hope to see ccp change the world of gaming. Make it a real cross platform game. Dust has its flaws but so does eve from time to time. And don't forget about all the other titles out there. When did COD added a big change in how the game works? I Remember the last few codgames being more of the same stuff over and over again just with a slightly polished engine.
I will look forward to the game and I am in the beta as we speak.
All I can say is keep up the unique work you are doing ccp.
Who cares if its in Beta? At that point the basic game is already laid down….Look at Mech Warrior Online, WOT and most other games, sure they added physics in WOT new tank tree`s and in MWO they add new Mechs and tweak weapons but in the end you can tell if a game is good or bad in Beta.
I loved WOT beta, I loved MWO beta and guess what I love them now and they feel the same, they are the same basic game.
If I ever played WOW in Beta I would have hated it because of what it is. By the time a product hits Beta its basically what it is….Things may tweak including stats, weapons etc but the guts will all be the same.
And if your argument is its Beta so it will get better….Planetside is in Beta and it rocks, you can tell its gonna kick so much ass its rediculous.
Also one more time to guys who think its ok it was PS3 only….They released a game super similar but worse in almost everyway thats a sister game to a relatively little known but highly loyal[ fan based game] at the same time Planetside 2 one of the most touted "Super games" of this year is coming out, pushed and endorsed as the MMO-FPS to beat all in the Sci-Fi spaceship range and they did it on the same CONSOLE AND NO OTHER SYSTEM….Yep total geniuses.
So when that 16-20 year old who doesnt know Eve is ask`s a Person at the Game store what Playstation Game to buy this month, what do you think he will? The unknown game that looks like a copy of Planetside or the Game thats been on every magazine cover and has poster`s galore up all over the walls? Yeah thats what I thought
BTW to the author Planetside 2 is anything but a shiny shallow FPS, and its whole plan is to build from the ground up, literally.
It`s alot easier to plan for a massive game that way. They plan on this being the most strained game on the network and are building for it to have 3x its growth room, Eve was opposite. It was built a long time along on simple code, and got so famous they kept expanding and expanding.
So if you picture it like a city being built. Eve is that Megacity in the future who was designed on 2 square miles and now has 15 million people so they had to just build up into the sky with old tunnels sewers etc. With plugged up roads, packed subways and traffic on peak hours that would shame NYC. And now trying to add x2 the population to that same system with Dust.
Planetside is a game who has mimic`d Eve MWO`s model and others taken what has worked and built a huge 20 sq mile foundation while buying all the 80 Sq mile suburbs in case the city populates to 100%, with roads to support 3x its already huge size, where the train runs on time, and traffic is rarely an issue because they do cap how much is possible at once.
Both have very rich in depth stories, Eve more so because of all the player driven content etc, but PS2 has everybit as big and probably bigger following as Eve with people saying its the future, it if the game mags pushing it so very hard get there way it would replace most MMO FPS`s.
One game started off with 3k players on Server and struggled at 5k and is now 35k almost always, the other we dont know numbers yet but its massively built already, with the ability to pipe through to other games as well where Eve was a standalone converted, this was always planned so, just like MWO, they announced they want a Eve style game in 8 years and ontop of that a Infantry side…..
Eve isnt just fighting Halo, Modernwarfare and Crysis etc its fighting great games Uber rich with content of why the 3 sides collide and inMWO why the houses are what and it has even a more rich history than Eve with thousands upon thousands of Books and player written series etc, Also this is bringing Microsoft, one of the Giants who could definitely do a 2 gamed system to rethink Halo as just a FPS and add the Ship fighting element as well and also is bringing in HUGE amounts of Novels and history to the Spartans story as well. These games arent held back by an older designed game its attached to at the hip, but rather see what Eve did great and did terribad and will IMO copy and just make one better….Thats not even mentioning the new WingCommander game [Not called that but its made by its creator] and if those games figure a way to make a in depth market system and let a sandbox happen but have Nutonian physics and little lag to where to could pilot a ship in major battles, it will take a huge chunk.
We have had scares of people saying, Star Trek and Starwars would kill Eve but IMO those exact claims and there games failures is whats making game designers realize that those were far to tame and to limiting, so I think the Sandbox will be stolen from Eve and unless CCP changes something fast in 4 Years we will be talking in those other games about Eve just like I hear older guys talk of ultima online, we will be talking of the true game that sparked Spaceships and brought the grittiness and backstabbing and war to Sci-Fi in Eve
Sorry guys, but to all the guys who told me it was gonna be fine, and PS3 only was a very good idea was WRONG.
It simply was a horrible choice.
The one thing Dust has [and I do mean only 1 thing] over planetside 2 is depth of story, and the fact that a 2nd game effects your world almost like how another country effects ours in RL.
But after that PS2 has way better graphics, gameplay, support both with Super Fans of the original Idea and Uber support in gaming mazines where those guys were every bit as thirsty for planetside2 as MWO.
They dont have to worry about any connections between games or lag that causes, and that is huge so what it means is they can focus not just with there staff of software engineers`s [were CCP had to split staff] but also you can have the 500 vs 500 battles people have wanted in a FPS.
Basically, they also realized to steal some of us in depth players away they would create a sort of Eve type system creating spaceships they plan on adding later, and these arent the size of Moons or have Frigates the size of 747`s, they are 3-4x the Size of Aircraft carriers now a much more plausible Idea for alot of nerds to get into.
But my main point was correct then and now, if CCP would have released it on PC+PS3 I would be playing Dust+Eve and if I was a more FPS leaned person might even help my alliance on the ground more.
They basically made a game with no specific target audience. Non Eve players will be thrilled more so with Planet Side IMO, and FPS junkies will go for the shallow killing Halo 4, and the lot bring. F2P is taken now by Mech Warrior and WOT who have stepped there games up bigtime meaning now that its been known so long that Dust was PS3 only most guys I know play WOT/MWO as its "Eve`s Ground game". I know I play with my same bro`s.
IMO by making it console only they cut there main audience who would have been the most vocal, Eve got big not by advertisement but by word of mouth about this awesome new space game where it was truly a sandbox, life wasnt fair in game, you could pirate cheat lie steal and the game even rewarded this.
Since 05 I have literally from here to Iraq to Afghan probably signed up or had 100 guys try it out with about 25 turning into fans. Im not super unusual. Anyways Dust simply doesnt have that because a lot of us who are grown ups who have to log in at 3 am our time to defend a POS or fight a huge fight arent the vanilla PS3 player.
It should have always started with us, and they would have built a rock solid foundation. But until such time as Tech is taken in Dust, most guys wont go out and by PS3`s just for Dust, and if they do and try PS2 and like it more they might just stick with that.
TBH making 1 game and focusing on it and making its sole purpose low lag with 500+ vs 500+ with Aircraft, Armor, Infantry of all kinds etc is alot easier than making something similar to that with half the Teamsize, creating it and it having to depend on another platform [PC, or PS3 depending] makes that game secondary in most things except its 1 attribute that stands out: Others out in orbit playing another game are there helping or killing you, and you are a part of there game as well.
That last attribute is very important, problem is to most Console players that aspect does not make up for Graphics, Gameplay and attention to detail, way to much Depth [for most console players], and overall that singular focus thats missing.
Its very simple just judging non Eve players putting Dust vs PS2, Dust has to share everything with Eve and thats a HUGE SETBACK unless you are a Eve fan already. PS2 creators have to only worry about ground Weapons and stats of Armor etc and Dust guys have to follow a Eve history of things, and is simply worried about connection issues etc….So when this perfect shallower Massive FPS game plays flawlessly with no lag and players are in Awe, whats gonna happen when theres a 500 vs 500 in Dust while there is a 500 vs 500 in Space and its 10% TiDi ? Think the console kids are gonna be ok with that orbital strike lagging for 90%? Or you think the avg 16 yr olds mom is cool with him waking up for a defense of a planet on a school night only for him to get blue balled?
Sorry guys, I got flamed for saying it was dumb to play the PS3 only card, and I stick by it. Its gonna get creamed sales wise by games who do what it does but better in 95% of ways and just has less content. Ask most console players if they want performance and beauty or that extra part that separates it from other games.
U like DUST so much u just dont want to admit it. U are bitter only because u dont own a PS3. Poor guy.
I played DUST 514 beta. It really needs the polish, but the concept is really good. Its really a deep game.
Playing PS2 atm and it is a good game, but is very shallow. U swarm the same compounds over and over again. It has tactical potential which is good and adds a bit of complexity, bu compared to DUST is just too much shallow.
I dont mind that is on PS3, i dont own it but i am sure gonna buy it, because dust after gettign the polish will be a fantastic game. On PS3 DUST will reach much more customers and has less competition. And what is most important, wot draw many players away from EVE.
PS3 – When i got no time, jump in shoot some ppl in the face. Doestn give me any motivation to put much time in it.
DUST – Will play it a lot. Prolly gonna own a mercenary corp and tie it with the pirate corp i am now in EVE.
Go to mittens site, normally I would never recommend it but they have a great article on how PS2 and Sony grouped with CCP to basically learn its secrets and how it works to RUIN EVE
It is now free for them to view the structure that is Eve/Dust and build a better game…..Imagine never having to learn only taking what another person spent money to learn and many years to do so.
Because its only Sony`s PS3 they basically bought the rights to essentially steal the light bulb of inter connected space games……I love Eve and dont want it to die but it will, and this will just hasten that, you can call me a hater all you want, doesnt change the facts.
Seriously… STOP! PS2 like Dust? You kidding? Planetside just got better graphics, and bigger map. END. skill system its bullshit nothing like an MMO system (like Dust & its customization on suits/skills) as well, Dust 514 will have consequences where on PS2 just mean "try to take that zone to gain a little bonus that tomorrow or the next day will be lost"
Wow revive a 8 month old convo much?
Necro lover
Also PS2 has much improved plans that tie into a space system as well. Just as Eve does with Dust except it will be much better funded and since its not using a 15 year old game, the space will be alot better. More of a actual flying space game than a spreadsheet.
Admit it Eve is great because it was the first ganme to say F.U to the rules….BE good, be bad and make empires doing it, but TBH its has become nothing bu ta RTM machine for the elite top 10 Alliances who wont go to war and sell RMT the profits and make more than most doing so.
500mil= 10 dollars in RL, Tec moon makes how much a month passively? 1 cluster of Bots working in 4 hour shifts so they cant get caught makes how much now?
Sorry but Eve`s time has come to an end unless they redesign its model……Current 00 SEC means just as little as PS2 does, there landscape changes and has no meaning our landscape never changes and has no meaning, except feeding some alliance bigshots, who make 10-20 grand then leave game selling there Titans and Toons.
Drop NDA <— This
Games like 'planet side 2' which has only recently been released is the main issues for CCP! how does CCP counter act games like this? I have asked some of the guys i play PS2 with if they would play dust and the simple answer was no. Reason? why when ps2 has everything you can want and the player base is huge and growing rapidly massive.
DUST 541 is a pishy, generic sci-fi FPS, of which there are countless numbers of already. It will sink into the mists of time and be forgoten about in 6 months.
CCP has made the best game ever. It can do it again.
Dust 514 is way better than PS2 on every aspect.
In the end FPS is FPS, and especially in console gamers, is riddled with fickle game interest on a very short timeline. DUST is clearly intended for a long-haul experiance – hoping to capture the magic that kept EVE alive this long. I feel the best angle for marketing this beast is to shoot to recapture 'retired' vets who don't have the time to participate in EVE anylonger. They know the world, and are able to touch it in bitesized instances instead of the time comittment for a meaningful session in EVE.
Maybie a way of linking your DUST account with a former EVE account for some sort of vanity medal or title ect?
a game with a SP system that ensures new/late players will never being able to catch up is easliy the worst shit a dev could put time into. just found out a new bf3 expansion released…we hopped on had a bunch of fun and it was a typical battlefield day..now if having a job, a family, another love (EVE) had left me worlds behind when i logged in that day i would snapped the disc that day. but instead i used the same tools and tactics everyone else has access to and went 130 and 30…thank you every other fps for showing ccp how its done.
"a game with a SP system that ensures new/late players will never being able to catch up is easliy the worst shit a dev could put time into." Says the Eve player.
The unique value proposition is in the link to Eve. As long as it is just maps and spawning you are fighting a losing battle against other MMO's. I'm in beta but have had it by now, I don't care shooting for the sake of it, I want to conquer a site on a planet in the Eve universe.
I was Playing Planetside 2 the other day and……
CCP is full of the "bottom of the barrel" types, so do have un realistic expectations its not like the have a genius like Chris Roberts, c'mon CCP Notch is a shitty programmer at best, look at MINECRAFT….
Go to mittens site, normally I would never recommend it but they have a great article on how PS2 and Sony grouped with CCP to basically learn its secrets and how it works to RUIN EVE
It is now free for them to view the structure that is Eve/Dust and build a better game…..Imagine never having to learn only taking what another person spent money to learn and many years to do so.
Because its only Sony`s PS3 they basically bought the rights to essentially steal the light bulb of inter connected space games……I love Eve and dont want it to die but it will, and this will just hasten that, you can call me a hater all you want, doesnt change the facts.
Sony now see`s there entire structure and its not 2002 anymore……Its 2012 and they can build a Server setup and Code from scratch to make a far more realistic, far less laggy game, but copy the hard tought lessons that were bloody and cost CCP alot…….No one loves Eve more than I, its been there for me for 3 Tours of Duty, COllege and my entire young adult life and really has partly shaped me, but by Sony now controlling part of Eve and offering a way more famous title that almost DIRECTLY competes vs DUST, you honestly think it has a chance? We are in a deppression, regardless of what Obama says the Economy blows, Part of Plex is because people are finding it hard to have multiple accounts and you think people will buy a PS3 just because Dust, and once playing it abandon it for PS2? Good luck buddy
DiD someone say EvE is a shitty game, and anything attached to it's universe is re-tarded….
Dont worrry about EvE, Capsuleer's Star Citizen from the maker of great games, such as Wing Commader, will be around soon enough, and then we can all, share stories how EvE was shitty andStar Citizen is very good and well executeded..
And Star Citizen will last 10 yrs? ya… I REALLY doubt it
Fucking D514 haters, check todays new version and cry playing PS2!… LOL