How might the act of skilling in EVE change, such that the core mechanics of how we acquire skill points does not change, but that the system becomes more flexible for the player?
Instead of adding skills to a skill queue, why not just amass skill points into attribute buckets [attribute points], which can then be spent on skills.
The system would still retain five attributes: memory, intelligence, perception, willpower and charisma. Depending at what rank each of those attributes are at, taking into account our current mapping and any learning implants we have plugged in, each attribute would accumulate points over time. I would suggest a rate of about (attribute value x 30) points per hour per attribute. We then take those attribute points, after some period of time amassing them, and spend them on skills.
Every skill has two associated attributes. Gallente Battleship, as an example, has perception as the primary attribute and willpower as the secondary attribute. We use a 66/34% ratio in determining how many points per attribute are required for skill purchase. Gallente Battleship V requires 4,000,000 skill points total, thus 2,640,000 perception points and 1,360,000 willpower points.
How does this make the system more flexible?
Let’s say you’re in a lowsec corporation, and they want their pilots to train into dreadnoughts. You decide, sure. But after creating your skill plan, you see that it’s going to take you nearly two hundred days to get into a Gallente dreadnought effectively (the spaceships skills, the capital weaponry skills, the siege module skill, etc.) You decide, to be safe, rather than sorry, that you’ll spend 200 hundred days amassing all the attribute points you’ll need, but you won’t actually purchase any of the skills until you can purchase them all at once.
Then tragedy strikes. At around 100 days into your skill plan, your lowsec alliance fail cascades. It is no more. You’re homeless. After some soul searching, you decide that you’d like to move to a wormhole, and you soon find a great new alliance to take you in.
Dreadnoughts were never a ship you were super keen to fly anyways, and now that you’re soon to be living in a C3 wormhole you really need to train up strategic cruisers and those damned scanning skills. Under EVE’s current system, that’s pretty much 100 days of wasted skill training you’d have completed towards dreads, a ship that you’re no longer interested in flying, and probably no longer interested in training towards.
Under this new flexible skill point system, and because of the decision you made not to buy any of the dreadnought-related skills until you had amassed all the attribute points required, you’ve a lot of flexibility to do something else. Now that you’re in wormholes, you can take those 100 days of attribute points that you’ve amassed and can immediately start purchasing skills that would be far more useful in a wormhole environment. You haven’t wasted 100 days of training at all.
***
It’s an idea. I’m not pushing for this as a change needed for EVE. The current system is certainly inflexible, but it’s by no means terrible or bad. Perhaps this new system isn’t quite right for EVE, for one reason or another. At any rate, it’s a discussion that can be had. Would this new system be appropriate to EVE? Is being forced into early decision-making important? Or is flexibility something that should be worked into the system?
You can read more of Poetic Stanziel’s opinions at his Poetic Discourse Blog.
If it aint broke dont fix it.
Also, think of the wasted skillpoints as skill-point trolling by the people who want your alliance dead.
In either case, I am for keeping the… You earned it, it's yours. No "trading them in" for points to use elsewhere. (learning skills were an exception to the rule)
That's why I always train what I fucking want, not what my alliance leader tells me. Which is also why I hate being in 0.0 power blocs to begin with.
Too right SilentSkills. When those arseholes in alliance command pay my subs they get to say what I do and don't train.
This is why you will always be shit and made fun of on CTA's for bringing the token "drake". I dont want to do what others tell me to either. But sometimes you have to for the greater good.
OMG another WHINER about NOTHING, go and fucking look at the BROKEN things in Eve.
This proposal would lose one key component of the current system for CCP. Currently you have a reason to log in every few days to refill your queue. This helps keep you attached even when real life takes over and you can only spare 15m.
WOW this is your attempt at trying to improve eve , by trying a fix a problem that does not exsist .
I really cannot see how you can call out the csm for doing nothing and then come up with this load.
Great work stanz why don't you start working on something I don't know, useful.
Why is this post even newsworthy? All that would happen is you'd have people opening accounts to train nothing but unspecified skillpoints which would then probably just fuel the RMT character purchases as a new player can spec it for whatever they like from bottom to top. Its not broken, it doesnt need fixing, there has always been a skillpoint gap since players who joined on day 2 after those who had started on day 1…
"Its not broken, it doesnt need fixing, there has always been a skillpoint gap since players who joined on day 2 after those who had started on day 1 …"
And there will continue to be that disparity under the flexible system above. I don't attempt to address that issue, because it isn't an issue.
Anyhow, I'm more interested in the discussion of the idea. I don't really care if the current system stays as is for ten more years.
The man had a point. We would see tons of chars training nothing and then sold to become insta specialist toon of your choice
This is the system Perpetuum uses (remember that game….LOL). I tried that game for a few months, and it wasn't too bad. Its felt a little more active when acquiring skills; less of "hurry up and wait" that we get in Eve. Nonetheless, it's pretty much just a variation of the same system. And the skill system in Eve is a sacred cow that will never change, so it's pointless to even talk about changing it.
Everything changes with time
I play that game now, i have two subs for perpetuum and two subs for eve. I like perpetuums system better because when my tour places me in an area with no net its not always easy to get ahold of someone to shift your skills for you. I do love eve, but i do wish they had the above system in place. Not because of the authors issues but because some of us wind up in places with no net for a few weeks to a few months. Yet stil keep subbed.
I disagree with the above post. The idea of making a decision and sticking with it is a core aspect of eve. Even if you end up training a skill you don't need, a couple of years down the line you could find yourself glad of it. I appreciate the viewpoint but it is not one I share.
Its no longer above man. Which post do u mean?
The article at the top.
"Gallente Battleship V requires 4,000,000 skill points total, thus 2,640,000 perception points and 1,360,000 willpower points."
no offense but this is where I stopped reading.
on a more serious note, now that i actually finished reading. Most of the skill points for say…a dread are on the way to other useful skills, so training up bs V and large guns V isn't exactly a waste of time. And like other people have pointed out, don't fix something that ain't broken.
NO ONE TALKS BACK TO -A-
Just make it so that I don't have to manually stop and start skill training when I jump clone. That's the only blatantly broken thing about the skill system as it stands, imho.
Now this is something I can agree with.
As long as you realize why you have to stop the queue It's cool, some how i think you are an idiot and don't realize that you have to stop it so it can account for a change in attributes.
It's not like the implants in the jump clone are going to change the system could in theory have it already calculated for if/when you decide to actually hit it. Not a major fix ccp needs to look into but it would be a subtle welcome change if it is easy to do which I imagine it would be.
Once again fellows , another shining example of something that is not broken
Agreed. Not broken.. but… I'd like to save a few clicks.
If it can do it when i get pod killed, why cant it do it when i jump clone.
loooooooool – someone trained to fly a dread…. and now needs a t3.
whys this on this site????
train for a t3
I read something about
"Baww Baww Baww I played a MMO and I lost my time toward a goal"
I might need my glasses, but I think that's what I saw.
Tohught this was gunna be one of those "noobs need help, veterans have big advantage" posts…. well it wasnt to my surprise, ur idea makes sense…. but right now the system works just fine, almost perfectly in fact. DONT FIX SOMETHING THAT IS KEEPING GOONS FROM TAKING OVER THE WORLD… or something like that right>
i want it
I've always been told, and pretty firmly believe that no such thing as a wasted skill point. Even IRC with their constantly changing Doctrine will need those skills sooner or later. The only real advantage i could see to your suggestion is SP Hording. allowing One to start and alt pay for it for a year and not log onto it then suddenly have a passable alt. At the same time It would make those people who are all but not playing(Idle players who just log into update queue) have even less reason to log in. Possibly reducing player base. I.E. Player A Logs in to update skill queue sees there is a Fleet about to head out and joins it outta bordom. but if player A doesn't need to log on to update skill queue…
Also, do you have any idea of how useful dreads are in wormholes?
One more thing, It's not clear but are you suggesting that you gain all five 'attribute points' at a time? I.E i can log into a massive dump of SP there for reducing the time required to train for any one thing?
What is that everyone and his mom in this silly game starts a discussion about how things should be. Another worthless topic about fixing things. STOP.IT. If you want things changed get a ticket to Iceland and slap a protest board around your chest and go try and occupy the CCP entrance.
Skills trained are not wasted
The problem with this system is that PVP characters will use all their perception and willpower points, but might not have much use for intelligence and memory points. In order to not loose points, they might be forced to train some industry or research skills … the result is that all characters will feel forced to become all-round rather than focused.
Do you even play this game?
Will/Perc is for shooty/ship
Int/Mem is for tank/cap
All skillspoints will be used. No one will be left out. Tis a good idea. Dunno if it fits the eve model though.
Time Sink Online.
Better idea: what about changing the skillsystem to a "do it and get xp for using skills" system – is that an improvement?
That will stop goons taking over the universe with F1 monkey alts. Than they have to train each one separately. – just kidding…
As everyone above I think the skillsystem is fine so never touch a running system.
While I like the current system, your idea is interesting. I would take it one step further, however, and since you can do neural remaps, why not perform skill remaps once a year or so?
I don't see this happening, but it is an interesting idea none-the-less.
*prepares to lose more points via vote commenting*
Edit: OP is not whining, just throwing out an idea and seeing what people think of it. sheesh.
*prepares to lose even more points via vote commenting*
I am rather interessted in idea's of reskilling characters instead of "delayed" (via attribute points) skilling.
A kind of "Reskilling" is already possible via the character basar . Is it possible to build a reskill feature into eve ? Prices and frequency are maybe like 1 bill (2 plex) for 1 mill skillpoint relocation, and its only allowed once per year.
skill up using the dust way to train stuff. Say you want to skill up in probing why not get SP for going out and scanning. The more you do it the more SP you can gain ofc with a weekly cap.
this sounds an awful lot like a game called perpetuum online. its pretty much eve, but instead of spaceships, it uses mechs and your sp is put into a bucket for you to dole out as you see fit instead of one skill at a time
I have to stop reading armchair game development articles.
The no-grind skill climb is it's own advantage, and prestige for those who've been clocking points for almost a decade. Flexibility is not helpful and detracts from the importance of your development planning and execution.