Combat logging has always been a problem in Eve. Despite the changes to the agro mechanic it is still possible to log off before getting agro and have your ship despawn two minutes later. As the attacker there is nothing you can do. This is currently being exploited in wspace by those who wish to farm in total safety with no chance of having to fight.
Wormholes – The Bermuda Effect
On Friday 12th October Lead Farmers had been rolling our static in search of some PvP for nearly two hours when we finally opened into a system with two dreads, two carriers, a couple of rapiers and a bunch of sleeper wrecks on scan. It looked like a farming fleet so we knew we had to move quickly. There was no intelligence on the system and they were in a cosmic signature site that hand to be scanned down. We had no idea who we would be fighting but in Lead Farmer style we decided to go for it balls deep and jump in two dreads and a carrier with a small gang of T3s. We’d be closing the connection behind us, we were facing more capitals than we could bring and they could well have reinforcements at a POS but it was Friday night, we had beer and we were not about to let being outnumbered put us off a fight.
As our scout began his rapid combat scanning he reported the rapiers changing top pods. We instantly knew what was happening; rapiers were being stored in the carriers and their pilots logging. As our fleet entered warp to the scout I asked for the status of cap pilots – all offline came the sorry reply. Our T3s called points on the caps but as my Archon coasted out of warp I saw the first of their capitals despawning. They had all logged before we could aggro them and so despawned with no hope of us getting a fight. Amongst the colorful language on teamspeak I right clicked and checked the owners of one of the wrecks to see which group of care bears we’d just been blue balled by….
EXHALE!
We were flabbergasted that the alliance that promotes itself as a premier wspace pvp alliance and mercs would use such cowardly tactics to avoid a fight. We were not even blobbing them 8-10 were the numbers and they had more capitals. Were we mad bro? You Bet!
Left in a half run site we began the process of killing the sleepers so we could leave and sent our scouts off to find us the exit. After several minutes we were nearly clear of NPCs and our scout was on the static H296. He reported it as end of life and then to his surprise it despwaned… closed on time maybe? Nope three more Exhale capitals just jumped in with a sub cap fleet and were now in warp to us no doubt with their other 4 caps logging back on. Would we log off to avoid this gank? Would we fuck!
Now facing seven capitals and a similar number of subcaps we were well outnumbered but at least we now had a fight. I hit triage and got ready for the onslaught on our handful of subcaps while our two Moros pounded one of the Exhale Dreads. We knew it was a lost cause but would go down gun’s blazing.
Too much incoming DPS nearly finishes one of our Dreads as it exits siege just in into for me to dump overloaded reppers on to it. Hovering between low armor and falling structure I announced I would not be able to keep him alive and the FC calls for members to save what they can. One dread goes down but amazingly the Exhale subcaps are more interested in pointing a couple of T3s than my my Archon, which quietly exits triage and begin to align. Expecting points at any moment I hover over my group of ecm drones as a last option, but points never come and the carrier warps to a safe.
To my great surprise Dino’s Moros is also at the safe with flames billowing out of the 8% structure he has left! Looks like they failed to point him either.
Our scout has the new static and the fleet and two remaining caps warp and jump. With only enough mass for one more capital Exhale seem unwilling to follow with anything more than a covops.
So they brought a fight in the end but not before pulling the logoffskies and waiting to out number us two to one.
CCP Games should reconsider the mechanic for ships logging off with a PvE timer. It is not right that a carrier in triage or a dread in siege can log off and be almost impossible to find and kill before its 2 minute timer expires. Ideally we would like to see the 15 minute timer published in the first dev blog, but failing that at least allow us to start a renewable pvp timers after someone has logged.
Logging off should never be an option to avoid a fight.
Until then all we can do is publicly name and shame those notable alliances we have seen combat logging to avoid PvP:
- Exhale.
- Elysian Empire
Kill it with Fire – Battle Summary
- G0hme
Lead Farmers / Kill It With Fire
Remember Kids, real men are like Hulk pilots. They just sit around and wait for the catalysts to appear on grid.
excellent comparison , Hulks vs Combat Ships !
well… to be fair… PVE combat ships.. are not combat ships if u know what i mean… and as most reasonable corps/alliances do… they need to fght on their terms.. not on the offensive terms.. and thats a big difference
In WH, PvP and PvE ships tend to be the same when running armor gangs
Thats not completely true. The PVE caps might have been similar, but the PVE gang didnt have the sub cap support that you guys would have available.
Regardless no PVE gang wants to fight on the gankers terms. It sounds like they did some hasty intel gathering and then came to whoop your asses.
Ultimately, LFarm is always trumpeting how much they love fights regardless of who wins. As far as I can tell both groups got what they were after.
Maybe Exhale didn't point your caps because they wanted you to *&@&@ off so they could get back to running sites. =P
Noticed the "tend" part Ron?
so how does the game mechanics currently work? if npc's are fighting you, you can still log off?
Yep.
It's a fact of life in higher end W-Space where people are running cap escalations that unless your lucky, or your targets are bad they are going to log to avoid combat in their PVE ships, pretty much everyone does it, it is incredibly frustrating if you've got a fleet ready to gank them, that being said I wouldn't write an article on EN24 whining about it.
It's just common sense from the guys in the PVE ships…
You can either stay logged in and let the gankers whelp your expo fleet losing 2 carriers, 2 dreads, and a loki or two and lose 12 billion ISK +, or you can log and keep your stuff…which would you do?
Exhale are bad
TLDR;
Long story short, they wanted to gank some PVEers at minimal risk.
Said PVErs decided not to be ganked and brought back up and a fight to deal with them, they blubbed because instead of an easy gank, they had to deal with fight which was not on the easy terms they wanted.
TL;DR: A story on beer and whine inside a wormhole. Swallow painkillers before reading.
Another brilliant example of somebody either not reading, unable to comprehend just the simplest things or have no clue on how wormhole pvp works.
They outnumbered capital wise, and had Rapier support for their dreads, which means those dreads can tear through subcaps quite easily if the pilots knows what to do. Now add in the fact that the capitals are fitted the same way for PvE or PvP in wormholes, and that sleepers are always a joker can that mess up any gank if they decides to be agro the same target that are being shot at already. And you suddenly don't have an "easy" PvE gank anymore.
Anyone knowing the mechanics knows that you guys could fairly easily alpha a rapier off the field, meaning their dreads could no longer kill any of your smaller ships.
you got seen on deepscan on aproach while they were PVE and they did what any good PVE pilot should do witch is GTFO-and get PVP ready. What happens when you dont cloak tackle freaking nubs.
Our caps could have logged too had they wanted, fortunately our pilots have testicles and they eventually got a good fight.
I guess I just figure a group priding itself on being a dominant wspace PvP alliance would be willing to fight.
And they were. They killed your moros.
Not at all. The reinforcement fleet fight has nothing to do with us being mad about the combat logging. Losing a cap is nothing to get mad about over here.
If your group had testicles they wouldn't be on here complaining that they couldn't kill a PVE crew.
If you are angry at Exhale do what any testicle wearing space monkey would do and go burn some of their pos to the ground. They can't log those off, but I'd be willing to bet you guys are too risk adverse to do more than whine on EN24.
You mad kizzdogg?
Clearly someone who didn't actually read the article.
Basically exhale hit the invulnerability button until they had a fleet in place in which to retaliate on the assaulting party, this isnt a use of game mechanics, more exploiting the log-off system until they were able to bring a greater force than they had already. The funny thing is they may have actually tanked long enough for the rest of their capitals to join the fray anyway, just shows who has the bigger balls…
I guess I'm a weak PVP'r but I don't like taking on fights I know I'm going to lose worst bet I'll take is where most of my fleet dies but we win in the isk war and get to loot the field otherwise I won't engage. Then again I've died helping ppl who jump the gun on a lost fight.
Clearly someone who wasnt actually there.
To make decision based on the balls size to fight or run one needs to know what one is facing.
To bring a greater force in to wh system one must have one present.
To exploit game mechanics one must do something that is not known or is forbidden.
Have you ever heard the term "logoff trap"? Used by virtually everyone at one point or another? Since 2007? Its being used to trick scouts and to gain tactical advantage. Fokin cheaters.
This. They wanted a fight, but they were wishing to get an easy one. So the pvers are the cowards for avoiding a gank.
I don't see any abuse. You tried to gank a PvE gang with your PvP gang.
They were watching local and used a game mechanic to their advantage but nowhere near anything to call it cheating or abusive.
Obviously they quickly organized a response which they gave you.
Suck it up! Not everyone is going to be a dumb victim.
"They were watching local"
Dude, did you even read the article ? Do you know how w-space works ?
WTB some meaningful comments from people that understand and live in w-space. K-space dwellers just don't understand.
watching local ~ using dir scan
Kinda doubt their scout was on DSCAN… if he was fail. Probes would have been but there are ways around that too… They don't apply here tho since they 'rushed' if you will.
People should really learn all about W/Hs – even if you don't live in one they can be very useful indeed. OFC they can also be horrid traps of merciless death…
We can all see he meant to say "paying attention" (by using d-scan/probes). Don't be a dick.
Indeed. Currently a pvp timer that exists at logoff is refreshed by the logoff and offensive action against the ship. So obviously timers can be manipulated for logged-off characters. Only a small change needs to be made, and that is that to allow pvp timers to be initiated upon a logged off ship that is watiting for its regular 30 second or 2 minute timer to expire before disappearing.
Really? So if I log off in honest fashion, and have no idea there is someone cloaked with combat probes off dscan, they should be able to aggress me after log off and then hold me indefinitely for the kill. This of course means the pod also has aggression, and I would wake up in a fresh clone on log in.
I agree the mechanic has issues, but allowing ganks of players who never knew they were being attacked is much more broken.
Cry me a river, will you? FFS stop your whining, you sound like a carebear. It's obvious what happened here. You wanted to gank a PVE operation, which would no doubt go down in flames as PVE operations do when they get ganked in a site. And I would have no problem with you ganking them, that's the game. But then you whine that they use the logoff trick to avoid your gank and bring in reinforcements to fight you back. You're just whining because you got your advantage turned back no you with smart tactics. Suck it up, be a real PVPer and stop whining that things are going against your plans. Adapt to it and keep rolling. You tried to fight on your terms and then you whine that your enemy doesn't want to fight by them? Tought luck. Force them to fight on your terms, don't expect them to accept them just because you wish it so. You are getting no sympathy from me.
If you bothered to actually read it all, you'd notice it isn't us whining about having a battle turned on us. Happened a lot of times and we don't mind that, we could easily have done the exact same thing they did and avoid any lose, but we didn't.
What we are pointing out is this horrible broken mechanic that allows people to farm billions of ISK without any form for risk, and just like we did something against Highsec incursions when they were broken, we are now doing something against this broken mechanic.
All i hear is Wha Wha Wha Whining get over it.
Lead Farmers escalates all the time with PvE ships. The difference is, what they say actually is what they do. Unlike the two mentioned, what they say and what they do are totally different. If you try to gank an LFARM PvE op, you'll get a fight and I'll guarantee they will be having more fun than you even if they are at a disadvantage.
You'll be surprised to know, most w-space corps/alliances act that way. Which is why Exhale & Elysian are on the shit list.
So true, you fucked up and now cry about it. Double shame on "kill it with fire"
If this were the case, wouldn't the offenders just have logged off aswell, instead of waiting in the side for the reinforcements to land on top of them?
your logic is flawed and you should feel bad..
No, they knew that part of the enemy fleet was pve-fit and were counting on it.
No they could not because they aggressed the logging off caps in the 2 mins they had minus thier scan times so they had a 15 min pvp timer running and logging would have allowed them to be scanned. So they double failed at least by missing the gank and then wasting damage on logged caps that they knew were going to despawn thus starting their own 15 min timer. So to sum up failed at ganking then failed again by starting a timer on themselves to no gain.
Watch my new video www.youtube.com/watch?v=afo88ovdWbg the last fight, this happened to us!!!!!!
Now these guys are hit and miss, dunno if its diff FCs or what but they had a pimped out armor fleet of about 15 T3 with 5 deadspace fit guardians and attacked 50+ tengus who had shit ton of logi/recon support. We couldnt beleive it. They lost about half and withdrew, no losses for us.
Gotta luv that wormhole gold. The point is sometimes you gotta forget the ISK and remember its a game that we play to have fun. (Its was a Friday night also if I recall correctly)
Personally I hate all the game exploits that ppl use, but thats life. We take out gangs and expect to be welped, its gutting, but sometimes you do the welping so it all evens out. PVE vs PVP setups isnt real PVP in my opinion, and when in my PVE setup I do everything I can to avoid PVP.
This article just seems like a personal attack rather than constructive criticism. Or we would have more than one example and differing viewpoints.
I did FC a gang against your gang until another IRC FC dude turned up took over and managed to whelp us. Credit where credit is due, you guys player it really well, but I was keeping tabs on your bonus ship which the other guy totally failed to do… Sad to see that one was not in this video.
Good video and proof that my earlier comments in another thread was wrong, -A- used large numbers to win. As for that larger fight in H23, I was in Vale so missed it, which perhaps is a good thing.
Whelping one of your fleets is now a personal target of mine, I thinks big…
Please add AHARM to that list as they done this to us as well
I can confirm one of our guys pulled a logoffski when he was solo triple boxing. With noone else on he did the deed. We made him sacrifice 2 Protei to the wormhole gods as penance. I understand the OP's rage, a good counter is to use a cloaky scout with a smartbomb fitted to aggro the dreads before your bubbler lands.
And all this crap about not fighting because of being PVE fit? Refit off the carrier ffs. At least be honest about why you log off.
They were honest… they logged off to buy some time to get a few dudes on and get a quick fleet together. Which they did, and then they fought. Maybe if you actually read what happened you would see that.
I didn't say that, it's obvious I was talking in general. Someone gave it as a valid excuse for logging earlier, and it is not. TBH I don't care if people log, they just get moved further up the eviction list
Tldr: abloo bloo bloo
L2stealth bros.
Dear author, I think you should fill this out. 1.bp.blogspot.com/–31nMhxCLX0/TjG_UOadRRI…
1. This is how EVERYONE fights. It's a game of which blob is bigger.
2. W-space combat is hit and miss as it is with just subcaps, not to mention billion isk capitals.
3. There is no such thing as overkill.
If you are going to whine about an alliance coming after your PvE fleet, maybe you shouldn't do PvE for fear of losing your carebearing ships.
Or! Your scout could be more vigilant, because between the time your static despawned and the new one opened, Exhale had enough info to determine you were doing a site, and had enough time to drag out capitals.
As Exhale. representative I completely agree that this mechanic is bad and it should be removed. But then again we dont see any way of CCP responding but using it as often as possible. The more publicity it has the better. Other than that we will not stop using it unless it is fixed or deemed as exploit.
So you're freely admitting your pilots would rather scramble for the logoff button as soon as a new sig appears in system instead of hoping for some pvp? Dont hide behind "everyone is doing it" or " using it all the time increase exposure of the problem" You are the problem dont act like your fixing it to disguise the fact that exhale wouldnt stand a hope in hell of fighting off a pvp fleet dropping them (something that any self respecting wormhole corp is fit for)
Hey Zackgar, you should write up an article about how your corp was recently robbed, and you felt it appropriate to post his RL name and photo on the LFarm forums.
Hey LFarm_Patriot, you should write an article about how you are a sad person hiding behind being anon because you don't have the balls to speak your mind in public?
Also, if you don't like people knowing your real life name, don't give it to them and then act like an ass…
Ok here goes:
Ronald Mexxico got bored, and left LFARM, a carrier and 6 T3s stuck to him on the way out, a pretty mediocre haul if you ask me. A post goes up on our forums containing a picture of Ronald hugging a spongebob squarepants pillow, and him chilling with some shirtless azn guys like a total baller. The last item was a police report of him being arrested for a DUI in 2010. Everyone laughed and found it very appropriate then moved on with their lives and everyone lived happily ever after, the end.
Isn't there something in the game EULA about RL identity information being used this way?
And how can a game control something that does not happen in game???
your arguing that it is OK to dig up a persons identity and post it in an eve specific forum out of revenge for an in game robbery? that sets a scary precedent.
I don't see anyone arguing that its OK. I do see someone stating, Correctly, that CCP has no control of what happens on any groups personal website.
True enough, and I agree it's not really an EULA issue because it wasn't on the official forums. Having said that, what a low life (@&# move.
Regardless, Zackgar should be ashamed of for bringing real life identity into the world of Eve as a means of revenge. This is beyond in-game trolling, and it's creepy.
I wonder how many other members of his corp he has 'researched' in this manner.
I fail to see how posting a picture of the guy and going "LOOL this guy looks like he cut back in line when chromosones were handed out " can in any way be construed as a threat….
you just confessed at failing at life
I… err… what?
You forgot to mention that the picture accompanied his real name, etc. Nice try though.
If it was not an eve online official forum then I don't think that it has anything to do with EULA.
Also since they didn't try to threaten or take any other action against him in real life (or at least I hope so) but just made fun of him I don't think you should read too deep in to it.
Where in my response did I say this? I ws merely pointing out the fact that policing people's actions out of game would be difficult for a video game developer.
If they're ratting and not ready for a fight, wouldn't it be rather stupid of them to engage?
You obviously don't understand what a pve expedition fleet is, do you?
There is an easy and smart solution that can keep such things from happening. Once you have a warpin directly on their most expensive capital you send in a suicide covops with smartbombs on it. If a single smartbomb cycle causes ANY damage to the capital, it now has a 15 min flag and cannot logoffski in space like that.
You are welcome.
If you are going to comment on something maybe you should try reading it first.
They were finishing off the site that exhale logged out in, which was necessary to be able to get the ships out. Far as I know everyone was happy when Exhale put on their big boy pants and decided to engage.
Soooo, this is one of the things specifically addressed by the new Crimewatch. No, really, I'm pulling from the devblog here:
NPC Flag: This flag is activated when a player uses offensive modules against an NPC (or vice-versa). Having this flag will prevent a ship from being removed from space if the pilot logs off. This flag functions in all areas of space.
So yeah, 15 minute timer for PvE. Winter is coming.
As far as I was aware CCP confirmed that wasn't the case, at EvE Vegas no less (and on the forums I believe but unfortunately don't have a link to hand).
Yes it's a broken mechanic if you can do risk free stuff in zero security space (not null sec space, that's not what I'm saying before someone tries to imply that). It doesn't even have to be 15 minutes, 5 minutes is enough.
Thing is, forcing someones hand to engage in PvP can end up in some good fights.
Looking over the fleet comp when going in, had it not been multiboxing that was mentioned above – maybe it would have been a reasonable fight. Maybe not, we will never know.
For the most part, when going toe to toe with people in wspace of a reasonably compared fleet (as it looks this was the case – there wasn't a massive amount of T3's on the other side) then you'd expect some for of fight without logging off tactics. Most PvE fleets in higher class wormholes are quite capable of engaging in PvP
Alas, everyone starts slinging mud instead (though it's nice to see there's at least some agreement that the mechanic is "flawed").
Eve is a game where lying, cheating, and stealing are the norm. I find it a little amusing that he would expect honor from any one. In my opinion a lot of eve pvp people are just little more than bullies trying to kick sand in people's faces. How many times have you seen them scream GF in local after blowing up some unarmed mining ship? Its not about honor, or skill, its about blowing up some one else's toys and then berating them for it.
But there are a few, who fight even when they are outnumbered, even when they know that they might lose. Its nice to see that there are some that are actually in it for the fights and the excitement of the battle instead of a sure victory. Of course they complain afterward, but they fought when they didn't have to and for that you can't fault them at all.
I had to laugh, that sentence "scream GF in local after blowing up an unarmed minining ship" pure gold…
"In my opinion a lot of eve pvp people are just little more than bullies trying to kick sand in people's faces"
That's pretty much how pvp in eve works. Everyone gets sand kicked in their face from time to time. Not everyone cries about it when it happens though.
pirate tears, best tears
Ships should stay in space for:
15min aggression stays as-is when logging off
5min after logging timed after ANY movement of the ship or module activation (including getting gang assist) – this will make blitzing systems, not finding industrials and logging off much more dangerous.
2min timer if a ship has been stopped with all modules off for at least 2 minutes. this is dicey! LOTS of people can nail you in 2 mins even at random mid-warps. this gives scanners 2 mins at the 'safe' and 2 mins to find the ewarp.
ANY AGGRESSION, PC or NPC should keep a ship in space indefinitely (so long as aggression is applied).
If your cap fleet is not PvP ready:
1. You're doing it wrong. 2. You're lying about having an inferior doctrine. Just admit you were a pussy?
So, every Cap in Space should take any Fight, even outnumbered and with pants off? There is a difference about having "balls" and waste ressources stupidly!
Any Fleet getting ganked outnumbered and with pants off will be considered stupid. Any Fleet using well known game mechanics to avoid getting ganked are called cowards?
For me as neutral EVE-Player once living in a WH i cant really feel with the the OP. Shame on you whining about the enemy being smarter than you!
You should ditch those guys and go hunting for AHARM and NOHO instead, they always put up fights even in Sleeper sites.
About this subject, I agree on this mechanic being a to easy win/save button for a fleet to bounce with no risk at all. Looking forward to see all the tears when it get's fixed!
If you live in a C5 and like gf's you really can't be that picky on what you fight.
Yep, AHARM will bring 60 people for your 20. Will you stay? Honor or stupidity?
Oh killitwithfire…
While i can understand your desire to blap two PVE revelations with your faction-fit-meta2-equiped blasters armed moroeses from a point-blank range with drugs-ready in your cargo and call it "fair fite" i can assure you, you only jumped on to two guys on their Low SP PVE alts who had no intel and just wanted to buy some time to maybe get few more guys involved to properly retaliate and assess what the heck just jumped on them… after all they had only 1 (and i mean ONE) subacap on field.
I can also feel your dismay when you got fed specially prerpared proper-resist fited moros instead and obliged to primary it, failed to chew trough armor, even though you overheated everything till the modules burned.
I can understand that at that point you felt obliged to maybe logoff and minimize your losses but you realised you now have aggro and also in siege so you stayed and fought like ~ehonorable~ 300 spartians depite seeing reinforcements.
But i want to assure you that the guys you jumped wanted to fight. They were not afraid of you even clearly they were outnumbered. And they did not log on the sight of new signature. They did not log when your scaning proteus flashed around like it fit wrong subsystem (get a new scout honestly). It was combat probes and understanding that half-decent scanner can one-cycle capital that get those guys scrambled for PVP alts and frantic calls on IMs while trying to win few minutes of time and prepare for a fight. How do i know this? I was one of these guys.
What i dont understand is why would you want publicly whine about your failed gank as after all only 3 guys came to our PVP call and you still outnumbered us in actual human-pilots (hence failed tackles).
But yes GF o/ and sorry i didnt respond… i jumped back before i saw it.
We are not whining over the failed gank, how many f-n times do we have to say that? My bloody 8 year old aren't half as fail at reading comprehension as you guys. We are bringing a real problem to a public forum, our fight did not have more to do with out standpoint then it gave us a reminder of what a piss poor system it is and how we dislike people that abuse it.
Other than that yeah it was a gf or rather a nice gank and I really didn't wan't that Legion anyway
Personally I find this dynamic the most fun part of w-space, anything can happen and you never really know the outcome of a fight before your at home again.
We understand that if fail mechanic, we have seen it used against us probably 100 more time than you. Since everybody does it and it's not declared as an exploit by CCP we do the same.
But the article you submitted here calling us shit sure looks whining.
Hahah PVE Revelations. What a joke. Come to our public channel if you want to learn how to use and fit a siterunning Revelations properly If you can't handle Wspace and if you are to incompentent to properly defend your farm op. Gtfo, you dont belong in BestSpace.
Fact is your cowardice was a prime example of a very current problem with Wspace. And I could not give a shit about whom toes i step on if that means this problem gets some attention around New Eden. When you use logging off as a combat tactic, then lol, get a grip. That is not how things should be. And that you believe that its all okay, makes you no better than AHARM mis-using the old C6 Magnetar bug.
And no you are right, we did not need to log our capitals, seeing as you failed to point the remaining two caps we had on field.
And wow, an exhaler who is not man enough to put his name to his words. How "unexpected".
Jesus…..did you really just say 'BestSpace' in place of wspace? I too, eat crayons during recess.
If you want to argue mechanics, people could argue 'rolling' your wormhole for hours on end with capitals, looking for a pve gank is broken as well. Any mechanic could be considered 'broken' if used for anything other than what it was designed for.
Why dont all these elite pvp'ers complaining about failed pve ganks actually go looking for pvp instead?
I failed to decrypt your non-main attempt to say whatever you were goo goo gaa gaa-ing
I'll be ready at the adult table whenever you decide to grow up.
You sound mad bro. You mad? He mad.
Declare war on us or go for CSM next year. Clearly there must be something you can do about it noble forum warrior.
What did I just read…
Sometimes RL gets in the way and you have to quickly log, while this is enabling you to get fights it will also enable people to get kills on people who had to leave the game, there has to be a happy middle ground, perhaps 4 minutes?
RL stuff happens when I'm getting a PVP engagement, do I get a get out of jail free card as well?
Some of us do not log off to escape from dying, and I have had people log on me, the most annoying is them jumping gate and then logging.
But at the end of the day you want to make people less inclined to roam with an aggresive wife/girlfriend around then set it to 15 minutes.
Stfu.
So you want easy kills, just like all the other losers, stfu loser
I started reading this because "Combat logging has always been a problem in Eve" sounded like article that might signal something is being down about it. Instead, someone logged off (the smart thing to do when you're about to get ganked no matter where you are) and someone else decided to piss and moan about a "broken" mechanic in a poorly written article.
The TL'DR version would have been easier.
Random dudes log off and my e-peen demands I tell the world who they are.
Oh shut up….
I was going to post how you guys are a bunch of whining babies who cried when you couldnt get an easy gank, but instead got a REAL FIGHT, but looks like everything has been said already. Wow, this article as absolutely pathetic.
I took notice of this comment because of the capital letters
As an Australian player who gets randomly disconnected from Eve at least once a day, I like the log off timer. Losing my ship to network issues is not fair.
So i think this is the reason why sometimes some people are eager to insult Exhale. alliance. Yes, we are confident and proud about what we do, but as far as i recall we never called ourselves to be an elite pvp'ers, you call us elite
And we never called another alliance to be "shit", so we expect the same from you. We like to pew pew a lot whenever we can. You're grown up people so act solid, no hard feelings.
nah, fine with me. let them all be mad at unfair meany exhale! more fights for us. but you wont see us posting an article about a failed gank, and people using mechanics (albeit stupid and broken ones,) to avoid cap losses. I can tell you that much.
Yea, I'm so sad that I didnt lose a cap to some failed probers. I'm also super sad that that an alliance wouldnt try to pvp in some pve ships used for making a shit ton of isk real quick. Also, I am really sad that a pvp alliance would even dare bring more pilots on field to counter a gank attempt, thats weird right?
I think its more to do with the fact that exhale hardly ever do anything on there own its always with loads of others to hold there hands starbridge, EE, dead on arrival, surely your joking and like to keep most these guys blue on a perma basis. most the times they coudl handle people on there own they dont they will normally bring in friends to make sure they heavily out number there opponents, in wh space they are regarded as one of the blobbiest groups as they always want to bring friends
THIS: eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=14…
K162 + No holes barred + TEMNAVA
OR THIS: eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=14…
Talocan united + SRS. + Transmission lost + Villore Accords
Tell me, dear Whdwellers, do you flame at K162 alliance for having friends? Do you fllame at Talocan united for having friends? Do you flame at Transmission lost for having friends?
Well, we dont flame at them.
k162 and norcorp with temnava from what it seems you camped a wh between them while temnava were moving in and you still have starbridge and red alliance with you.
yes second link looks pretty bad. but then.
eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=14…
you and syj jumping people in a site eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=14…
eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=14…
eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=144…
eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=14…
eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=14…
eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=144…
thats just the people you have grouped up with in last 2 months, now i havent check other major wh corps but i will happily do that if you want. But i'm fairly sure you'll be right at the top for grouping and blobbing
Noted. Also, didnt answer, do you flame on other alliances when they team up with friends?
booo hoooo hoooo, they have friends and we don't :'( oh, poor exhale, they are so innocent… btw, i lold on retarded chitsa's title – king of the wspace? like, really??? (still loling)
well yep others may team up, but not to the extent you guys do i counted 6 or 7 times in last 2 months i did try to link them but mod keeps on deleting them for some reason but i will happily check all the other major wh alliances and we can see who does tea up/blob the most.
So it seems that it's mostly my corp mates are using their proper character names when posting, good to see that I'm still in the right corp.
Also, I fail to see how this would have been a massive "OMG PVP VS PVE GANKLAH!!"
How are PVE vs PVP dreads/carriers fit any different? Who cares if you don't have the sub caps to point things down and web other sub caps, the other caps sure as hell can't go anywhere if they're in siege of triage. It's just a coward move and I sure as hell know that we won't log if the same thing happens to us, we even hope it happens on our away ops so we can get some good fights :}
hey i have proper character name tooooo
yest anouther sad story where because theay knew theay were out numbered and going to loose theay did the smart thing got safe and logged…. End of subject
The gankers got mad because it's not fair CCP should just not allow any one to warp any where when we hit system so we can get gank kill's it's not fair that he flew away from me because he was smart it's not fair it's not fair ….. Whine Whine Whine that's the reason for all the swining off teh nerff batt so the next time theay nurff someintg like that hurricane since theay are doing the drake now i dont want to hear a god dammed word all you winers just need to STFU and get over it all your doing is making thinks more unbalanced because CCP does not know how to rebalance and as a after effect you have a new i win ship
ccp should ban loggin off…
ccp should ban loggin in…
CCP should ban "save game" option from this game.
I just can't believe people with a double income and no kids wants to waist their time to deminish three red bars on a space pixel ship of some random dude behind a computer. Then even waist more time on writing a whiney story on some silly forum about it. Seriously get a freakin life.
then waste time shit posting on a website dedicated to showcasing events regarding three red bars on space pixel ships of some random dudes behind their computers? fail troll is fail…
I lol`d so hard, then you waste more time writing about how it was a waste of time them writing about it lols
They are right its a terribad mechanic. The other night me guessed a POS PW and went in and were in a tiny Cyna/Vaga fleet and had really no hard bumping ship, but guy logged while he was 5km from out of shields and he wold have died, instead they changed PW after he vanished warped us out and got a Tempest who came and help and a few others killed…What abroke ass retarded mechanic. ALot ofem actually.
1. You should be able to lock a ship within a POS just not rep one, so if you sneak into a POS you should be able to shoot anything inside just not outside in or inside out.
2. Log off never ever should be a saving grace, it has saved SOOOOOOOO many bigger Alliances SC`s and Titans from 20-30 Man gangs who should have killed it but they just broke its shields at 15 mins after it popped the one cap they had for reps, or like the older one shot anything Titans.
3. If they do log off there needs to be a cool off timer before they can log in if, they were agressed, so if a Dude logs in Fleet and all his buddies rep him, he no only shouldnt vanish after 15 mins but 30 IMO and he cannot log back in until the 30 mins is done…..That would make guys like this who have Carebear fits they log off, and bring in PVP fits and pounce,,,,,,So many things……CCP blows at just stopping the A.D.D and just doing 1 huge …..
Tech moon fix,where they use a RNG to spread Tech perfectly evenly, make lowest sec areas 00 sec thats NPC or connects to Lowsec because that is by far the most dangerous and has 10x more traffic than upper branch or venal or Deklien. Next POS has so many fixes, Log offs……Forget new content fix broke shit, look how well they did wth blasters and rails, weapons are the most balanced Eve has ever been IMO right now weapons wise, Scorch/Pulse Rail+Naga+Rokh/range Alpha+Mael+1200Nado`s…..TE`s are balanced and TC`s…..Its almost perfect the balance, they fixed T2 ammo….
so why not just a fix patch every week? Just try 1 fix a week and if its bad yank it 7 days later…..Thats it.
if you have a problem with any of the following wormhole corps and alliances who are known to log out caps while doing pve and being ganked by a pvp fleet.
take the fight to their home system and find out just how pvp ready they are.
Verge of Collapse, K162, Exhale., Transmission Lost, R.E.P.O., Talocan United, No Holes Barred, Adhocracy, Brotherhood of Starbridge, Exiled Ones, The Red Circle Inc., Hard Knocks Inc., Sleeper Social Club, Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork, Elysian Empire, W-Space, Ash Alliance, Battletech Technology, Surely You're Joking, U N K N O W N, Wormholes Holders, GNADE Inc., Dark Falcon Operations
Happy invading.
Do you have proof that all of these groups above have logged off caps in an advent of a gank? You pretty much named every wormhole space entity.
Its like saying "What I'm doing is fine because I "know" everyone else does it."
Unless ofcourse this is a sarcasm post.
Being a member of one of the groups that you have mentioned, I'd like to take the time to say that the last time we had anyone try and get some pvp while we were doing escalations was quite some time ago, over 6 months in fact. We did have someone think about it 3 weeks ago but I do believe they felt it would have been a lost cause as we had far more than the required 2 dreadnoughts on the field and they would not have been able to bring equal force given the mass limitations of their static. What I'm trying to say is that you just pretty much named every major wormhole group except for your own. You are misinformed and should limit the blanket statements you make.
Ill have you know we are 100% invasion ready biotch, and no i am NOT joking.
probably there is nothing else left to discuss here. Now, as Kill it with fire alliance posted this on evenews24, whole EVE comunity can see who is who. Yes, you feel bitter that you didnt manage to kill us, but its also obvious that you wanted to bite us. I feel pretty confident about our state. But you showed low morale.
Oh, my friend. Don't credit yourself. Our morale is high. Remember when Guillotine Therapy jumped us in our cap escalation and we stayed to fight? Just saying… Don't be such pussies is all, then take some high ground to mask your shame. Ultimately, we're on this rant again pussies. Just don't be pussies. Pussy.
Remember when we got jumped by RnK and fought? Just saying… Don't be such cowards. This is ultimately why we're ranting. Cowards only fighting in favorable conditions. Don't be such cowards is all. Taking the high ground seems to have helped you mask it, though. Good job there. And our morale? Undiminished.
Cowards? Favorable conditions? Dude, just the like engagement we had with before the cap fight two weeks ago, we see you, we have intel better than you so we organize the fight on our terms and come out on top. But in the first case you just came to our public channel to call us pussies for wanting to trap your small t3 gang from home by bringing an Archon 3 holes from our home to close your static and have logistics. We said, ah well let them be… But this time it looks a bit much with all the shit posting and whining in above article.
Don't remember that one, but eh. Given your case, we used the right way to curb your possible onslaught while sticking the carrier out there. We took a risk, mild it be, closed our hole and protected ourselves without resorting to log-off games.
You misunderstood my story, it was our archon, we shot your gassing thorax in your static, you scramble t3 fleet with logi support, we scramble 4guys with t3s and an archon in order to try and trap you out of home. All fine, we shot 2 frigates lost nothing and you came to our public channel to call us pussies for not having a fight when it was you who jumped back home as soon as you saw our archon.
The problem with this silly logoffski mechanic is that it bypasses much of the risk of wormhole space and other spaces. Logging off shouldn't allow people to simply get away as they please, that should come to personal flying and skills to do so. People complain, "well I dced while mission running", I can throw the same argument around, what if I dced during a fight? Do I get to run away too?
Answer is no, EVE is a game with risk, everything has risk including PVE where rats can kill you if you mess up. Shit happens, but so what I've lost ships because of bad connection, but you deal with it.
Tl:dr: Everything in EVE has risk, if you don't want to deal with that risk then this isn't a game you should be playing. Logoffski/DC is not an excuse for this. You should never fly what you can't afford to lose, if you don't want to lose that pimped out capital then don't fly it or learn how to fly it and use your personal piloting and skills, rather than relying on a automatic mechanic.
I want an internet wide shitposting timer. One week cooldown after shitposting anywhere on the internet. I should stop about 85% of all Eve "content" being posted. Gods above the whining.
No intel and you jumped in with that fleet composition? How utterly useless dude. Good god I would've teared you a new one.
Article is full of failganker tears. Just because exhale were in the middle of some gay pve does not mean they should have to be kept in the same spot and in game for your ganking fleet. The fact that they were paying attention and were able to respond immediately and avoid the gank is fine. The fact that they didn't just avoid the gank but then turned it around and attacked YOU is something that should be applauded, rather than whined about.
I'm not sure if the first group that logged was a fair fight – obviously PVE fit and farming, and all, vs a PVP fit fleet?
With that in mind. Seems like a pack of fail-gank sprinkled with tears. The sobbing over a well known and universally available mechanical effect of the game really clenches the angst. The fact that the ambush backfired… that's just… You may have wanted to keep this reversal of fortune to yourself and not paint the victors as cheaters and poor sports.
Fear not my friends. CCP has become well aware and introduced some great things in the duality test server:
imgur.com/a/Tat6R
-"Safe Log off." – an option that show up in right click when not moving, having a locked targeted, being locked on.
-Once "safe log off" is initiated you must stay still for 1 minute and cannot do anything other than abort the 1 minute timer.
-Confirmed 15 minute NPC aggression timer. You will not "safely log off" until 15 minutes passes after your last NPC aggression when you started the log.
The days of logoffski: www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZ4fllJTG-w
Awesome now farmers and ratters can no long run away by simple quitting.
Smart wormholers would have known 3 capitals collapse any hole…
2 dreads, a carrier and some neut jumping 2 dreads and 2 carriers in their home is not a gank. It's forcing a fight that can go one way or the other.
You might want to check the name before running your mouth, i've been in neither scrub alliance.
Smar wormholers know that many subcaps could have used that wh before the third cap closed it.
And REALLY smart wormholers don't fight on the enemies' conditions.
Not calling anyone shit here
– But claiming to be elite pvp'ers and then log off when threatened a bit… Its like a turtle claiming to be a Lion.. lol..
If they'd let themselves get caught and ganked they'd be shit.
Because they avoided the gank and fought back they're shit.
So how would they NOT be shit?
Read the article, you called us shit. Admit that in this case you lost because we were smarter and we didn't go on EvE news 24 calling you shit for failing to gank us.
The problem is that they didn't move their ships out in order to escape the gank. They simply pressed Ctrl-Q and let the programming and mechanics do it for them. That's the difference.