Here is a “must-read” interview with CCP Sreegs on topics like RMT, botting, bans and Eve Vegas.
The Nosy Gamer: CCP Sreegs Unleashed 2.0 – In His Own Words
At the end of February this year CCP Sreegs and Team Security launched an offensive against botters and those engaged in the illicit RMT trade. They even busted the illicit RMT operation of the creator of the Questor mission bot.
At Eve Vegas on 6 October CCP Stillman announced the next phase of Team Security’s anti-RMT strategy; making the practice of botting and ISK selling socially unacceptable amongst the player base. For those who have not yet seen or heard CCP Stillman’s presentation, I have transcribed the section following the video of CCP blowing up the POSes of corporations caught engaging in the illicit RMT trade.
“The point of this video is that the social acceptance of botting/RMT is going to come to a stop. We said at Fanfest this year that we were going to eventually look into it and we feel that we are at a point where we’ve dealt with the low-hanging fruit we can do in terms of detection of botting.
“The next big issue is really the alliance acceptance of this kind of bad behavior. So this was the first that we took a bunch of corporations we banned; we’re going to wipe the POSes and everything they have. And what we are going to end up doing coming up is that we’re going to make sure that if an alliance is hosting botting/RMT they’re not going to continue doing that. We’re going to make sure that they feel the pain. But we don’t want this going on. We don’t want it to be an alliance (unintelligable). It’s crazy what’s going to happen. And we’re not going to do anything drastic or anything, really, like an Unholy Rage against alliances.
“We’re going to adopt the same philosophy as we do with our botting/anti-botting work is that we are going to go for a slow burn. We’re going to measure every step we take. We’re going to see what impact it has. We’re not going to kill the whole alliance overnight, like, ‘Hey guys, bad luck,’ at least not initially. We’re going to make sure that everybody understands what’s going on.
“If you’re doing this it is not going to be a fun time for you. And we’re going to see where it takes us because its one of the big elephants in the room right now. We’re going to address that and its going to happen over the next couple of months. So, questions?” [emphasis mine]
Despite CCP Stillman’s use of the term “botting/RMT”, CCP Sreegs does not plan on holding alliances responsible for the activities of those who do not engage in ISK selling. I spent last week exchanging emails with CCP Sreegs asking questions about what Team Security intends to do as he was concerned that the coverage of Eve Vegas did not accurately portray his strategy. What resulted was a rather lengthy interview.
CCP Sreegs: “I believe there are some items being blogged about and coming out of EVE Vegas which are being severely misunderstood and I’d like to provide some clarification. In essence the alliance action system as discussed is being billed as making alliances responsible for botters and this is far from the mark I wanted us to be at. My first question in that when we discussed it internally was ‘What tools would we give people to police actions against bots from an alliance level?’ and the answer was clearly that we couldn’t so we weren’t going to go in that direction merely for botting. This is coincidentally one of the questions Stillman was asked in Vegas lest anyone feel our thoughts are out of sync with the players. That is not to say that we will never focus on bot-friendly alliances but that it’s not the scope of where we’re focusing today.
“Our efforts and actions we’re talking about here are purely related to RMT, which can take the form of botting but which takes other forms as well. We’ve seen alliances which have RMT as a part and parcel of their leadership structure. They use various methods to attempt to shield that from us but we’re seeing it anyway. We’re not naming names YET (though we may well do so) but those alliances should feel on notice that they can end their RMT related activities whether that be in the form of using ‘Rental’ agreements or private forums on their own alliance websites or any other methods they’re currently using to violate the EULA or we will end it for them.
“Forming an alliance and having a bunch of people join it or taking over an established alliance and twisting it into a personal business for the leadership does nothing to change people’s obligations under the EULA and we want to send a very clear message that if they think somehow it does they’re incorrect. Players who see this behavior should both report it to us and inform their alliance leadership that it’s unacceptable, or move on to other alliances because to be honest with you that alliance does not have a future given its current path.
“At this point in time, as Stillman stated later, we’re only referring to a very small number of alliances and the VAST majority of alliances need not be concerned. In this case we’re talking less than 10.”
The Nosy Gamer: “When penalizing an alliance, does that mean punishing the alliance leadership directly or are you considering treating an alliance as a person and making the alliance itself subject to fines and/or asset confiscation?”
CCP Sreegs: “The alliance is a person kind of. It’s hard to explain with examples only in my head but they will be treated as an alliance not as a group of thousands of individuals, just as much as they would buy a titan as an alliance not a group of a thousand individuals. We’re not looking at individual activity here but rather individual benefit cloaked in mass activity.”
The Nosy Gamer: “You stated that you do not want to make alliances responsible for policing botters but botting is an RMT related activity. If you detect someone botting, but that player is not involved in RMT, then will any action be taken against the alliance? If not, will the alliance be notified that one of its members is doing something wrong?”
CCP Sreegs: “No on both counts.”
The Nosy Gamer: “Have you determined what the procedure will be if you catch an alliance member engaged in RMT but the money trail does not lead to an alliance director? In the past I would assume that the individual would just be permanently banned. According to what CCP Stillman said at Eve Vegas, I get the impression you will try to work with the alliance leadership to end bad behavior before more bans are necessary. Is it possible that if enough people are banned for RMT that the alliance would pay a penalty?”
CCP Sreegs: “No. Best answer I can give right now. The question is broad and our response will not be. This isn’t a one size fits all issue. There are hundreds to thousands of alliances in eve and there are less than 10 alliances we care about in this regard.”
The Nosy Gamer: “If you have direct proof that alliance leadership is engaged in illicit RMT, will you just institute permanent bans like you would to a regular line grunt?”
CCP Sreegs: “We will decide on the response when we act. It will hurt.”
The Nosy Gamer: “At Eve Vegas, multiple speakers claimed that the leadership of at least one alliance is involved in the RMT trade. I think you’ve basically confirmed this. With CCP Stillman’s announcement in his presentation and with your statement are you giving the leadership in the offending alliances a grace period to clean up their acts before wielding the banhammer?”
CCP Sreegs: “I think that what we’re doing is stating that particular activity is unacceptable. What people choose to do with that information is their own thing but that doesn’t change what we do from a day to day basis. Them or their alliance member’s willingness to reach out and try to clean up the situation would of course contribute to how we dealt with the penalty.”
The Nosy Gamer: “Currently the penalty for those purchasing illicit ISK is to have all of the ISK deducted from their wallets. Is that going to change?”
CCP Sreegs: “No. We work on negating the benefit and we see this as effective at this point.”
The Nosy Gamer: “Has there been consideration of adding a flag in the API indicating that a player can no longer can transfer characters off the account? This would tell CEOs and recruitment officers that the player had been caught botting. And if so, would you consider putting a date in the API so a player could possibly get into a corporation if he kept his record clean for a long enough time?”
CCP Sreegs: “We have no intention at this point of publicizing private account information such as the tags we place on accounts.”
The Nosy Gamer: “Besides botting, are there any other RMT related activities a player could be banned for that would not result in a permanent ban?”
CCP Sreegs: “There is no RMT related activity including botting which would not result in an immediate permanent ban.”
The Nosy Gamer: “At Eve Vegas, CCP Stillman showed a video (which I did not get to see) of POS that were involved in the RMT trade being destroyed. Is the plan to blow up assets that are being confiscated instead of just making them vanish off of Tranquility? If so, is a CCP fleet going to do a POS bash or are you going to push a destruct button?”
CCP Sreegs: “We won’t waste time with fleets. We blow up assets because hilariously enough technologically that’s the cleanest way to get rid of them not because it gives us jollies.”
I should add three points I took away from CCP Sreegs’ answers. The first is that CCP Stillman’s presentation was a statement of a strategic goal in Team Security’s campaign to enforce the EULA, not a roadmap of specific actions. I think many players took the presentation as actions that would occur before the attendees of Eve Vegas returned home.
The next is that when Team Security refers to RMT activity, they include both the source of the money and the actual act of selling as one act. So those who bot for personal use are treated differently than those who turn their botted gains into real world currency (14-day vs permanent ban for a first offense). That will now go for alliances as well as individual pilots since alliances are people too.
Finally, even though allegations were made against one alliance at Eve Vegas, CCP Sreegs did not name any names, just that less than 10 alliances merit close investigation for possible links to the illicit RMT trade.
- NosyGamer
TL;DR: Not really any news. If you are truly scared then you will have your reasons, too.
Just as it have been told for thousand times to those, who are blind/deaf/stupid/retard (chose yours).
While not involved in RMT, bots themselves do not make CCP feel bad.
Even more – as soon as there are so many isk in economy, that PLEX prices beat the RMT isk exchange rates, everyone will move from RMT to legal PLEX trading. So, as long as bots are heating up EVE economy with limitless billions, bots are not enemies to CCP.
Keep telling yourself that to justify your botting… 14 day ban on first offense is not "we're OK with bots". Clearly against the EULA, and they clearly care–as they do indeed hand out those 14 day bans. They wanted to kill botting before plex, they want to kill botting now, and that makes eminent sense, your ad hominems notwithstanding.
And the bots' impact on economy–whether by "heating up EVE economy with limitless billions" or the various other effects–harms players in various ways (and helps in a few, but the net is very bad), so CCP is going to push down on this so their beloved lvl 4 mission runners don't get swamped by bot-induced inflation or what have you.
Im sorry guy i hate botters but CCP only cares about it making honest players mad that they have to work hard and the botter doesnt. They really have made very little effort before to find them.
Im sorry to disagree I hate botters my self but botters make our market stable as of now and if they stopped altogether mining you would se hisec mats go x3 in price.
Its been said many times and is true botting doesnt bother CCP they make money on it, buy those botter creating Titans and Caps out of easy to access raw mats and that person who needs a carrier to buy 2 plexs.
Now that the Misioning combat Bots are injecting direct ISK in pilots pockets it has become a problem for CCP but still not to a point where they make more on mining bots than Belt/Ratting/Missioning bots.
But its getting close to where its making CCP lose money once that starts you will see just like whatother games do and a hardcore anti botting program that predicts human movement vs repeatative ones will come into play.
In the long run, on that we agree very much.
Chaky u are a BOTTER/BLIND/DEAF/STUPID/RETARD or all of them.
Get it in to your head!!!!!
BOTTING HURTS ALL NONE CHEATING EVE PLAYERS –> CCP will loose my, and others, VISA payments in thee long run. –> CCP has a problem with bots.
where’s the TL;DR
So essentially Goons have nothing to fear, even though Deklein has the highest number of botters in EVE, since they get the majority of their alliance income from tech.
1. Mention something bad.
2. Blame goons
2. ????
4. Profit
Ma dear shreg, how is "… adding a flag in the API…" suddenly "… publicizing private account information…"
What private infos do u get from my api ? Is it my cc number, 1st/2nd name, adress, or what ?
This must be ccp job as usual: shittload of words and thats it, coz eve is still the same place. And no, u dont do any background job to imporve game… hidden, deep undercover, because if u do, ccp fatties woud correct at least 2010 bugs in game.
Sqreeqs is an idiot, pretty clearly.
most leadership in the alliances at the top, run 50+ accounts with all bots, and pretend to be renters – to themselves.
Look to the people who handle rents, to find out who RMT's
im sure an alliance that makes 400bn isk a month per region they hold surely RMTs most of it, especially when they own gaming websites that also traffic isk from auctions and such , to cover re-imbursments of ships, instead of using corp wallets.
I wish I could tell you who, I know who, but can not say. Its funny though, when they get 50 accounts banned for a few weeks, and the major alliances no longer have thier main FCs for 2 weeks…
I said I'd give you a little taste… Why are you dropping dimes all of a sudden?
I think when HBC burns Esoteria, we'll see a sudden drop in botting. Start with Inver Brass. Follow with ROL and C0VEN.
You are too stupid for null sec politics…C0ven lives in stain mainly and is only mineing and renting in Esoteria…ROL on the other hand…..has alot more space to deal with and alooooooot more corps that do BOT with capitals/supers …As is Tribal Band, new owners of the Period Basis, as was Vera Cruz and Nulli, previous owners….And this is the same way everywhere in null, just becouse alliance leaderships, even if not RMT-ing, are always happy to rent systems more expensive and shield or cover the botters….
BTW< Esoteria is a shit region, only good for renters…but when the renters start building capitals and supers …well thats another thing…How do you imagine that C0ven owns like 8-10 titans and they have like 30 active guys (if that many)???
Nullsec sov is costly, you cannot support it without bots, every body use them, and you will always find few morons that think they are unstoppable in their t2 cruisers. Coven don't live in stain, they are always roaming our region, PB and Esoteria. You can always track their roaming groups there 3-4 groups up to 20 people each. They ruin our businesses so we will ruin their systems.
"Nullsec sov is costly, you cannot support it without bots"
Then maybe you shouldnt hold it ?
Valid.
It's 35 and 15 mate. You have terrible intel.
Oh, and please don't attack Eso yet. We really want to get that "Holding a region with no people online for the longest time" world record a bit higher.
Lol ROL is old news of botting…..Deklien Branch Tenal now are the areas least traveled by far look at high GSF terf, 35 jumps from x70 which is 15 from hisec……No one makes it there who isnt blue, almost ever.
Yaaawwwnnn…. these are not the News Items you are looking for! Move along….
Burn goonswarm
Hum, I know we did a purg this spring of bots, Its starting to look like its time for another bot check. I know we dont like bots in our alliance PL was an example how bad it can get. Time to fire up the rifter squad again and check the miners (convo, ask question, point and jam if no responce, wait 5 mins convo again, no responce have rats kill ship, if pod undocks warps back to belt, kill pod boot from corp).
CFC is one of the worst offenders, not to say you know or participate but GSF are known to have zones of botting where they say "Where are renting that space DO NOT RAT THERE OR YOU WILL BE KICKED"
They dont want a even light blue going there or anyone not in the botting corp to come in so there Bots cloak up.
I don't understand how they don't condone RMT yet they have their own RMT in the form of PLEX.
It's the same damn thing!
Will they ban you for buying PLEX from CCP? I think not.
It is not the same thing.
The ISK generated by RMTs comes from bots, which rat and introduce new ISK into the game. This leads to inflation, but the worst part is the business itself. It is untrustworthy and customer unfriendly and damages the image of CCP's business. It causes unnecessary server load for which CCP needs to provide the hardware. It is like someone is using your computer, takes away CPU time and uses it to make money.
CCP uses PLEX, which produces no new ISK but uses only existing ISK in the game. You get full support by their staff and a reliable and trustworthy service. It does not create additional server load and increased costs on the side of CCP and the best part is that other can play for free.
Not true not RMT comes from BOTS AT ALL, and ev if it did who cares where do plexs come from? CCP Snapping there fingers and making plexs [RMT chips] happen is the sameon the economy as a Bot making ISK, both have no human interaction, one makes CCP money 1 doesnt.
Most ISK is made from hardworking sclubs getting market PVP`d and moon mining, alot of botting can contribute but if you account for botting much more is from mining.
I totally agree with crackdown, and IMo they should severly hurt Alliances like GSF/SOLAR/AAA etc who have specific zones to put Belt Botts in, it so simple, pu a toon in one they will tell you where its safe to Bot and they make 10% isk of it so it makes em filthy rich.
"Most ISK is made from hardworking sclubs getting market PVP`d and moon mining"
The stupid, it burns.
Market PvP just moves isk around, from buyer to seller. It doesnt create isk.
Moon mining creates moon goo, which creates ships and modules. Again, no isk.
Isk is created by CCP giving it to you when you blow up a rat, complete a mission or hand in an item.
Once more you are retarded.
Look at the latest in Drama 800 gazilion in wallet of NCDOT that ISK has been slowly accumulated on the backs of the ratters since 05 damnit.
Quit thinking ISK is only this years edition you nerd.
Once you realise alot of us in Eve lets say Top 10% just like RL own more than the rest combined. Now with this old ISK they buy Ships mined from said "Schlubs".
You guys who act smart are worse by far. This is not like the real economy where they burn money at a high rate, ev`s taxes are miniscule, i nAmerica we have 40% overall tax in Netherlands 60% in Eve overall`s is 15% TOPS and if you are smart and amarket PVPer 2-4%.
OLD MONEY IS MOR THAN ALL MONEY COMBINED BECAUSE IT COMPOUNDS INTEREST BUT NEVER IS TAXED LIKE RL.
Wow, you need to be really looking at what he says. He is 100% right. For instance RMT happens over half of it with SC`s/Titans and not ISK at all…….BOT`s that Mine T1 mats do 90% of work and seller makes a few t2 parts and bam Titan a 1k product that is sold 15 per month on Ebay. THERE IS A NO ISK TRADE
He was 100% right most ISK is from hardworling schlubs then transferred or "Stolen" by them paying 10% less tax etc and therefore he is correct.
How do you think Doom got 800 gazillion? Overtime made huge investments on WH corps, Huge hisec ratting corps and tax on rats over etc etc over a very very long time, thats what he means by most ISK is from working stiffs. How can you even deny that?
Stop thinking every fiscal year ISK is reset to zero….Lol
oh my god, did you teach yourself economics or does it "just come to you" like mana from heaven? Old Isk doesn't earn interest, and taxes on earnings are just that, taxes on new isk being inserted into the game thru legitimate practices. NO ADDITIONAL ISK IS MADE, it doesn't appar out of thin air dip shit, it is a portion of the isk earned.
CCP is after all aspects of RMT, so if they are involved in some way then they will suffer, tough shit.
And as for why CCP doesn't like RMT, but they like PLEX? Well gee Wilbur do ya think they might want to keep all the money earned by their product, their copyrights, and their hard work? Yeah, I think I would too. Go get a job, learn how bills and taxes work, then come back to comment on economics. Oh, and shave the neckbeard…
Most Bots Rat period end of story, HBOT needs 13 systems per Bot to be effective, but 1 system can house 20+ Miners
So again most ISK is made by having missioners and plexers bu ships from ill gotten ore, and or huge capitol ventures like massive wars for Tech Moons, did you ever think where all that ISK went to to cost beating the NC? Or where all that ISK came from to build the NC and reap its Tech? Your telling me Bots made it all…..LOLOLOLOL
I heard a lot of rumors going around about Gentlemens Agreement – anyone know if any of the allegations about their rampant botting floating around have any foundations.
They are just slowing the machine down…a little. They are Not, however stopping it. I've had and continue to have 3 sites mirrored but with different GPU's and the bucks keep coming.
And thanks to their own greediness with such incentives like PLEX's and the Power of 2, I and others like me have figured out why they REALLY hate us…..;););)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQmBXEZEYtg