CCP Fozzie keep spamming the EVE-O forums with loads of intel, this time he focused on the Combat Cruiser changes, here is the lowdown:
Dev Post: Winter – Combat Cruiser Rebalance.
Hello everyone! We’ve got the final set of T1 Cruisers here for you all. The Combat Cruisers are designed as frontline warships with both solid damage and good staying power.
These ships got somewhat less dramatic changes than the others. The average EHP of the set is only 2% higher than the average EHP of the old Tier 3 cruisers. Their main advantages over the other t1 cruisers are in tanking and a more robust capacitor pool.
Maller:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
5% bonus to Medium Energy Turret damage
5% bonus to all Armor Resistances
Slot layout: 5 H (-1), 3 M, 6 L, 5 turrets
Fittings: 1000 PWG (+100), 280 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1200(-168) / 2100(+225) / 1700(-19)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1550(+50) / 515s(-22.5s) / 3 (+0.2)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 205(+41) / 0.56(-0.045) / 11550000 / 6.1s (-0.4)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 47.5km / 280(+10) / 6
Sensor strength: 16 Radar (+2)
Signature radius: 130
Cargo capacity: 480 (+200)
Moa
Cruiser skill bonuses:
5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage
5% bonus to shield resistances
Slot layout: 6 H, 4 M, 4 L, 5 turrets, 2 launchers
Fittings: 800 PWG (+20), 375 CPU (+15)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 2100(+225) / 1200(-129) / 1500(-24)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1425(+50) / 475s(-16.25s) / 3 (+0.2)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 195(+31) / 0.54 / 11720000 / 5.9s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 15 / 15
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 55km / 260(+7) / 7
Sensor strength: 17 Gravimetric (+1)
Signature radius: 135
Cargo capacity: 450 (+200)
Vexor
Cruiser skill bonuses:
5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage
10% bonus to drone hitpoints, damage and mining yield
Slot layout: 4 H (-1), 4 M (+1), 5 L (+1), 4 turrets
Fittings: 800 PWG (+125), 300 CPU (+30)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1100(-73) / 2000(+515) / 2000(+515)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1450(+200) / 482.5s(+36.25s) / 3 (+0.2)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 215(+46) / 0.6(+0.03) / 10310000 / 5.8s (+0.3)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 75 / 100
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 52.5km / 280(+4) / 6(+1)
Sensor strength: 16 Magnetometric (+2)
Signature radius: 145 (-5)
Cargo capacity: 480
Rupture
Cruiser skill bonuses:
5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret firing speed
5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret damage
Slot layout: 5 H (-1), 4 M (+1), 5 L, 4 turrets, 2 launchers
Fittings: 860 PWG, 350 CPU (+25)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1500(-63) / 1800(+159) / 1600(+37)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1275(+25) / 425s(-21.25s) / 3(+0.2)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 240(+48) / 0.54 / 11650000 / 5.9s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 30 / 30
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 50km(+5) / 290(+8) / 6(+1)
Sensor strength: 15 Ladar (+3)
Signature radius: 125 (-5)
Cargo capacity: 450 (+150)
Let us know what you think!
- CCP Fozzie
These are some nice changes.
love the moa
Now I know why I have skilled hybrids for caldari ^^
Really like the new rupture!
Vexor with a bonus to Mining Yield??? Funny I thought I just read they were Combat Cruisers
10% bonus to drone hitpoints, damage and mining yield
only the drones have the bonus if i read correct.
I saw that too, but it's a fairly standard drone boat bonus.
Yeah, because a slight mining drone bonus = a new mining barge.
You fucking tard.
he was simply surprised to learn that vexors had a bonus to drone mining yield; i've been playing for years and just learned this by accident a few days ago as well.
you, on the other hand, got your vagina in a twist and decided to show off some of your used douche materials. who's the fucking tard, again?
I forgot you know his motives and have every right to speak for both him and myself in every capacity.
Learn grammar and how to apply logic to a situation then come back to me.
Troll.
You are right. It is as silly as a camping trailer hitch on a sports car.
Going to miss that 5th hi on the Vexor…
lolwut?
No CPU buff for poor maller?
maller still has no drone bay yet the other 3 do have drone bays… a tad unfair really
Maller had an extra hi, no drone bay. Extra hi gone, but no drones yet. Not good.
Those little ewar drones help, or the extra dps.
They could at least have loaded up on the grid and cpu so it can fit with less restraint.
Its got a tank bonus, so it'll be fine.
All its losing is a utility high, not a gun or anything, and for it to be a mini-abaddon like CCP wants it cant have utility highs.
Maller of Doom = one hell of a ship – even with small turrets. Add more EHP to that and you have the maller of +%2 more doom. I think I 'll take that bonus.
Like how they keep removing utility high slots. Rupture should trade in the launcher hard points for a 5th turret slot. Vexor needs an additional highslot for the drone control rig or salvager, and it's 75mbit drone control still doesn't make much sense (3 ogre 2's I guess? Leave the maller's sixth high slot alone, that was a perfect spot for a salvager or cloak…
2x ogre 2 x hammerhead 1 hobgob = 75 mBit/s = 315 dps (all 5 T2 drones do dmgmod)
(all 5 T2 drones no dmgmod)
Drones are no good. They are easy to kill and each lost drone is a direct loss of DPS. Unlike with other ships does the tank of a drone boat not protect its DPS. It is like your guns are flying around outside of your ship for everyone to shoot at. Other ships can deliver all of their DPS no matter how much damage they have taken. The overhead of managing drones in space compared to just flying a ship and firing its guns makes drones less desirable. When you fly a drone boat and get into a fight with an experienced PvPer, one who knows where the damage is coming from, will you lose your drones quickly or have to leave. You then need to find a station, because one cannot move drones from the cargo bay into the drone bay when in space. So all your drone DPS is questionable, at least for PvP. And now that CCP is going to improve the NPC AI, which only means NPCs will shoot drones more often, will drones become questionable for ratting and mission running, too. Only recently did we finally get drone damage modules and we still cannot increase drone DPS with rigs (unless it is sentries) and there is also no ship module yet to increase drone hit points and resistances.
There are compensations, however. Drone DPS can't be shut off as simply as turret DPS via ECM, and drones themselves provide a lot of utility in the form of ewar. Also, while they're shooting drones, they're not shooting ships. Maybe losing drones is a huge problem in solo pvp, but in small gang PVP it's not the greatest concern. Take some spares, and transfer them to your drone bay at a nearby station after an engagement.
No. You can use an ECM Burst and thereby always jam a few of them, reducing the DPS immediately. ECM is not an argument. You will only not find many ships that fit an ECM Burst, because there are not many drone boats in the first place. Not to mention the smartbombs, which make it very easy to destroy many drones of several ships, all at once.
The main "advantage" of a drone boat is that it is an unexpected ship and works as a bait for its drones, and so you get players dying to drone boats, because they were trying to work their way through the tank of a dual- or tripple-repping Myrmidon. However, once you know this and you start shooting the drones do drone boats have to leave, because their DPS is more vulnerable than that of any other ship.
I also like to use my cargo bay to pick up loot and do not want to carry spare drones with me instead or bother the logistics pilot to repair all my drones for me…
Once again, I think your reply maybe comes from the perspective of a solo pvper (which I admit, I have very little experience with, being more into small to medium gang stuff). Nobody in small gang pvp uses ECM bursts, since it causes havoc to your gangmates. Normal ECM (both in terms of resilience and projection via ec drones) is definitely an argument in small gang pvp – having been in fights where a hostile falcon or rook is able to cycle jam four people at a time, I gained a much greater appreciation for drone dps
In small gang fights, the drone boats don't leave while their friends stick around to die. And you don't get to loot the field until you've won the engagement. Spare drones, ammunition, cap charges and nano paste is what your cargo hold is _for_ if you're a pvper.
Sorry, but you are throwing in some of your experience to drop arguments, because they do not fit you, and it makes me wanting to move on. It does not make for a good discussion. Or ask yourself what the difference between smartbombs and ECM Burst is in terms of small gangs? You really only need to learn where to stay just like you do when you do bomber runs. It has little to do with small gangs nor should a ship be designed specifically to the needs of small gangs. What you are doing is to hold onto a ship type which is beginning to fade away by only looking at the few remaining advantages that it has got. This is nice and kind of you, but again does not make for a good discussion.
If the Ruppy got a 5th gun it would become the new Hurricane and would promptly become OP.
With 4 mids it can basicly fit itself as a Hurricane minus a Low slot & neut.
Attack cruiser changes = awesome
Combat cruiser changes = lame
Heavy missile nerf = complete and total bullshit
I've cancelled my 2 caldari subs and will not be reactivating until CCP stops being assholes. Now I have no PVE alts. Thanks devs. Fucking dicks
this is the kind of pilot that eve can do without
see ya bro!
Cause HAMs aren't getting a buff with skill changes and PG reductions.
OHWAIT!!
Stop being a Tengu brat who can't adapt and get used to having to check how far a target is like everyone else who's LR weapons cant do 500+DPS @ 100+km
Thankyou.
That's what my Minnie pilots are for, but how do you think I pay for my pvp fits? I pve like other people who don't buy plex to pay for there toys. Plus this make my brand new 1.5 bill exploration tengu useless. Pve is already a pain in the ass and the shittiest part of the game, now its just that much worse
Just switch up to a machariel or nightmare like i did with my tengu pilots. Both are much better in anoms or missions. For exploration switch to hams on the tengu and problem solved.
Ham Tengu have a 60km Range, more than enough for PVE. If eves not fun. Then ur Can I haz your stuff!?!
HTFU Why not cancel all the accounts as you clearly don't belong in eve , see ya
Sure he belongs into EVE. TEST Alliance is the biggest alliance and always has got room for one more.
Nerf aint in yet. Train for HAMs.. Actually just GTFO cunt!!! don't let the door knock you out on the way.
EvE easy mode (caldari) tears are the greatest.
I was so pissed about HML nerf but they have made it up to me by far with making HAM`s track so damn much better.
ALso still the right answer wasnt DMG or range but 1 simple thing tracking….Make HML`s have bad tracking and guys would have to shose to lose DPS wasting a low slot with a TE or tank using a mid for a TC…..Thats all they had to do.
I was worried they were gonna leave shitty power fitting, so ships like Nighthawk still couldnt fit true combat Ham fits with MWD, but loos like it might work.
Also maybe Torps will come back in some sore of utility role…..SB certainly will be more vicious killers without just bombs….They will actually kill a webbed Cruiser and web`d and painted frig lol.
vexor gets 1 less slot than all others? whelp
With a giant drone bay by comparison, but that must not be relevant, right?
Maybe its just me being me, but does the changing of all non standard numbers for Shields, Armor, Hull, and Cap keep comming to mind?
CCP is making all these values end in ~00, ~25, ~50 or ~75. When they used to be random. Anyone else? Or am i just paranoid?
They are doing this because previously they just chose random values around what they thought was reasonable, which is pointless and makes things complicated for no reason. It's similar to when they had the million different mission types (internal security, etc.) that were not particularly any different and just made things needlessly complex.
One thing I don't like them simplifying is the item names however…I like my y-t8 overcharged hydrocarbon microwarpdrive.
honestly need to fly these to tell if they will be good or not. Put em on bucky and I'll give you all proper feedback
I see nothing good or nice or desirable in those changes.
The Maller changes look best even when it loses a high-slot. Most of its changes are a gain. And no drones is still better than the three drones the Moa can field.
The Moa also looks good, but CCP apparently could not resist to give it three drones as well as to hold on to mixed high-slots. Those three light drones will surely cause havoc.
The Vexor now only looks broken with all of its armor hit points but a slot layout for shield tanking. The bonus to mining drones is nonsense considering CCP wanting to redefine the ships' roles and also wanting to introduce a mining frigate soon.
The Rupture appears to be getting the least changes, but what is being changed makes it less desirable, because just like the Moa can it fit a mix of turrets and launchers, which is a punishment for anyone who wants to fly them. It makes high-slots appear dirty and so ends up most often as a utility high-slot.
"Let us know what you think!" … a typical sentence by someone who a) does not know that we always say what we think about CCP's work and b) is taking a wild stab at ship balancing and now wants to know if he is heading into the right direction. God save us all…
On paper they look better. I wonder how they'll fare against the AHAC and Tier 3 BC gangs? I'm guessing the answer is "chewed to pieces"….
Not complaining more stating it's odd that amarr would be odd man out on a drone bay.
Makes it easier I think. Either you have enough drone space like the Rupture to make use of your drone skills with room for a spare one (even when all are light drones) or it is better to have none at all. Having room for just three light drones like the Moa is sad.
CCP could have fixed this among with other things, but they keep holding on to such ideas, to cripple the ships artificially and possibly thinking it is more fair somehow. I'd really like to see how the devs get their ideas. Like how they decide to give all cruisers except for one 6 target locks and one gets 7 target locks:
"We give the Moa 7 target locks, because we give it the least scan strength. It locks targets a little slower than the others but can lock one more than them. Also because Caldari uses ECM for their main e-war do we give it the highest sensor strength so that this keeps making sense. Bla bla bla … (10 pages later) … and finally we round it up with a sound 15 mbit drone bandwidth."
Or maybe they have an equation system to calculate a "perfect" balance and this change is one of many that their computers gave out and which seemed to be the least nonsensical among all the theoretical "perfect" solutions.
I'd really like to read a formal reasoning for every change than only the final changes themselves.
The Vexor becomes an even better mission boat, which is probably one of their secondary objectives.
Losing the high doesn't hurt as much in missions, and the added mid and low will give it better cap stability and tank, so job well done.
Fot those complaining about losing the utility high for PVP, use the extra mid for E-war, adapt your fit to include the extra low for more DPS or tank. The extra power grid won't hurt, either.
I think that the Maller will be an interesting ship to try, now that it looks to do some actual damage along with its heroic tank. It may finally be used as something other than obvious bait or cyno.
The Ruppie trades a high for a mid, but keeps split weapons – this seems the biggest loser in the group – it had no real issues as a mission runner, so I guess that slot is for a target painter, but loses DPS/neut/nos in PVP. This ship is a brawler, so E-war at (relatively) point-blank range is, at best, of barely moderate use. Possibly a Tracking Computer? ECM/Damp & Artie's? We'll have to play around with it some.
Vexor: drop the hybrids and mining bonus, add the 7.5% armor rep bonus like on the myrm