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	<title>Comments on: Poetic Discourse: Bottom-Up Taxation &#8211; The Tools Already Exist</title>
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	<link>http://evenews24.com/2012/09/28/poetic-discourse-bottom-up-taxation-the-tools-already-exist/</link>
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		<title>By: whayne</title>
		<link>http://evenews24.com/2012/09/28/poetic-discourse-bottom-up-taxation-the-tools-already-exist/comment-page-1/#comment-152593</link>
		<dc:creator>whayne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Sep 2012 22:50:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.evenews24.com/?p=21592#comment-152593</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What do you not understand about simple economics? 
 
Every credit not recorded and taxed and registered is lost. 
 
Loss is not conducive to growth. 
 
I left some spaces to throw in some big words. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What do you not understand about simple economics? </p>
<p>Every credit not recorded and taxed and registered is lost. </p>
<p>Loss is not conducive to growth. </p>
<p>I left some spaces to throw in some big words. </p>
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		<title>By: seph</title>
		<link>http://evenews24.com/2012/09/28/poetic-discourse-bottom-up-taxation-the-tools-already-exist/comment-page-1/#comment-152392</link>
		<dc:creator>seph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Sep 2012 21:48:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.evenews24.com/?p=21592#comment-152392</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sov costs plus nerfed anoms, (that allready have a bounty reduction compared with belt rats). Makes for a lack of a draw or resource in nullsec better than empire level 4s. 
 
It is possible to exist without tech, but thats not to say it is good in its current form. I will believe nullsec has a decent resource to replace tech when I see it, not when others talk about pipe dreams. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sov costs plus nerfed anoms, (that allready have a bounty reduction compared with belt rats). Makes for a lack of a draw or resource in nullsec better than empire level 4s. </p>
<p>It is possible to exist without tech, but thats not to say it is good in its current form. I will believe nullsec has a decent resource to replace tech when I see it, not when others talk about pipe dreams. </p>
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		<title>By: Moon Pirate</title>
		<link>http://evenews24.com/2012/09/28/poetic-discourse-bottom-up-taxation-the-tools-already-exist/comment-page-1/#comment-152375</link>
		<dc:creator>Moon Pirate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Sep 2012 20:16:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.evenews24.com/?p=21592#comment-152375</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This is my thought.  
A corp taxes 15% of your ratting/bounty/mission money, and gets 1 mililon isk... 
The alliance has a tax rate of 10% and takes 100,000 isk from that. 
 
So just like happens now with a players wallet, the corp wallet would show. 
-100,000 
+1,000,000 
 
Pretty simple. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is my thought.<br />
A corp taxes 15% of your ratting/bounty/mission money, and gets 1 mililon isk&#8230;<br />
The alliance has a tax rate of 10% and takes 100,000 isk from that. </p>
<p>So just like happens now with a players wallet, the corp wallet would show.<br />
-100,000<br />
+1,000,000 </p>
<p>Pretty simple. </p>
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		<title>By: Random Miner</title>
		<link>http://evenews24.com/2012/09/28/poetic-discourse-bottom-up-taxation-the-tools-already-exist/comment-page-1/#comment-152369</link>
		<dc:creator>Random Miner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Sep 2012 19:42:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.evenews24.com/?p=21592#comment-152369</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[time for all the nullies to start opening accounts in the cayman islands.... ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>time for all the nullies to start opening accounts in the cayman islands&#8230;. </p>
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		<title>By: buggrit</title>
		<link>http://evenews24.com/2012/09/28/poetic-discourse-bottom-up-taxation-the-tools-already-exist/comment-page-1/#comment-152348</link>
		<dc:creator>buggrit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Sep 2012 17:31:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.evenews24.com/?p=21592#comment-152348</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Its either automatic (% taken from bounties missions and shit) or its useless. 
 
Roams in an area, with non-alliance non-member killing x value in rats, would disrupt tax gathering by a %, increasing until you have negated his income in the constellation. This disruption naturally goes down with time (within 1 hour or so). Rats killed out of the alliance area would pay no alliance tax. 
Then just set neighbouring systems you control to 80% tax and make your guys go over to their place to ruin things. 
 
Alliances need a CTA button that will put all taxes to a predefined rate (100% or whatever they wish) for the duration. This would be a role that could also be granted to some persons below director level, such as top FCs. 
 
The tax rates would need to be granular, defined in general, then region and system only if wanted. This would allow alliance leaders to discourage ratting in an area or encourage in another. 
 
PETS need to be formally defined. With contracts. This will also end the &quot;we&#039;re not pets&quot; crap. A % of the tax would be a part of the pet contract. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Its either automatic (% taken from bounties missions and shit) or its useless. </p>
<p>Roams in an area, with non-alliance non-member killing x value in rats, would disrupt tax gathering by a %, increasing until you have negated his income in the constellation. This disruption naturally goes down with time (within 1 hour or so). Rats killed out of the alliance area would pay no alliance tax.<br />
Then just set neighbouring systems you control to 80% tax and make your guys go over to their place to ruin things. </p>
<p>Alliances need a CTA button that will put all taxes to a predefined rate (100% or whatever they wish) for the duration. This would be a role that could also be granted to some persons below director level, such as top FCs. </p>
<p>The tax rates would need to be granular, defined in general, then region and system only if wanted. This would allow alliance leaders to discourage ratting in an area or encourage in another. </p>
<p>PETS need to be formally defined. With contracts. This will also end the &quot;we&#039;re not pets&quot; crap. A % of the tax would be a part of the pet contract. </p>
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		<title>By: Gam_Samgee</title>
		<link>http://evenews24.com/2012/09/28/poetic-discourse-bottom-up-taxation-the-tools-already-exist/comment-page-1/#comment-152329</link>
		<dc:creator>Gam_Samgee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Sep 2012 15:27:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.evenews24.com/?p=21592#comment-152329</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Let&#039;s break this down. Goonswarm Federation has 9436 members according to Dotlan. Assuming than fully half of these (a vast overestimation) are non-moneymaking alts, this would leave the lucky goon finance team over four and a half thousand accounts which they would need to manually track monthly income and whether or not they had paid. It&#039;s already a huge pain in the ass just to make sure all 9k goons get access to mumble, the forums and have a valid API on file. Every single member of the finance team would quit or commit suicide. Even if they didn&#039;t it would be really hard to tax income. I just sold 100 million isk worth of market orders in highsec, is that taxed? 
 
Then let&#039;s look at it from the line member&#039;s perspective. This sucks. IF it absolutely had to be done, a flat fee per character would be much easier. But goons have long prided themselves on not shitting on their membership, and such a move would reverse years of resistance about this. Alts would start to move out of alliance to avoid taxes. It would be huge clusterfuck that nobody would like. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#039;s break this down. Goonswarm Federation has 9436 members according to Dotlan. Assuming than fully half of these (a vast overestimation) are non-moneymaking alts, this would leave the lucky goon finance team over four and a half thousand accounts which they would need to manually track monthly income and whether or not they had paid. It&#039;s already a huge pain in the ass just to make sure all 9k goons get access to mumble, the forums and have a valid API on file. Every single member of the finance team would quit or commit suicide. Even if they didn&#039;t it would be really hard to tax income. I just sold 100 million isk worth of market orders in highsec, is that taxed? </p>
<p>Then let&#039;s look at it from the line member&#039;s perspective. This sucks. IF it absolutely had to be done, a flat fee per character would be much easier. But goons have long prided themselves on not shitting on their membership, and such a move would reverse years of resistance about this. Alts would start to move out of alliance to avoid taxes. It would be huge clusterfuck that nobody would like. </p>
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		<title>By: minimee</title>
		<link>http://evenews24.com/2012/09/28/poetic-discourse-bottom-up-taxation-the-tools-already-exist/comment-page-1/#comment-152323</link>
		<dc:creator>minimee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Sep 2012 14:42:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.evenews24.com/?p=21592#comment-152323</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[agree its not feasable to do it manualy  
 
if they are to do it with INGAME TOOLS then we are talking on another scale 
if they at the same time give Nullsec a isk boost then im for it.  
 
that may even promote some ninja ratting (if you only get taxed in own systems) i mean more target = more kills = more fun for minor roams 
 
 ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>agree its not feasable to do it manualy  </p>
<p>if they are to do it with INGAME TOOLS then we are talking on another scale<br />
if they at the same time give Nullsec a isk boost then im for it.  </p>
<p>that may even promote some ninja ratting (if you only get taxed in own systems) i mean more target = more kills = more fun for minor roams </p>
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		<title>By: Suzume</title>
		<link>http://evenews24.com/2012/09/28/poetic-discourse-bottom-up-taxation-the-tools-already-exist/comment-page-1/#comment-152319</link>
		<dc:creator>Suzume</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Sep 2012 14:11:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.evenews24.com/?p=21592#comment-152319</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Wow - just... wow. 
 
No.  Don&#039;t do this... PLEASE.  It&#039;s enough of a struggle for some people just to show up for ops and point their ship in the right direction.  Let the big brains figure out the big brain stuff. 
 
Let the alliance grunts be grunts. 
 
Kuz being grunt iz FUN! ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow &#8211; just&#8230; wow. </p>
<p>No.  Don&#039;t do this&#8230; PLEASE.  It&#039;s enough of a struggle for some people just to show up for ops and point their ship in the right direction.  Let the big brains figure out the big brain stuff. </p>
<p>Let the alliance grunts be grunts. </p>
<p>Kuz being grunt iz FUN! </p>
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		<title>By: Pensive</title>
		<link>http://evenews24.com/2012/09/28/poetic-discourse-bottom-up-taxation-the-tools-already-exist/comment-page-1/#comment-152318</link>
		<dc:creator>Pensive</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Sep 2012 14:10:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.evenews24.com/?p=21592#comment-152318</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Agreed, this is not realistic. 
 
Also you didn&#039;t address the lack of value in nullsec.  Half of the point CFC is making about tech is that without it holding sov and actually LIVING in 0.0 is not really worth it.   
 
Also if you start taxing income that&#039;s already less than empire income... well, you get the point. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agreed, this is not realistic. </p>
<p>Also you didn&#039;t address the lack of value in nullsec.  Half of the point CFC is making about tech is that without it holding sov and actually LIVING in 0.0 is not really worth it.   </p>
<p>Also if you start taxing income that&#039;s already less than empire income&#8230; well, you get the point. </p>
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		<title>By: Tin Foil</title>
		<link>http://evenews24.com/2012/09/28/poetic-discourse-bottom-up-taxation-the-tools-already-exist/comment-page-1/#comment-152315</link>
		<dc:creator>Tin Foil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Sep 2012 13:53:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.evenews24.com/?p=21592#comment-152315</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[took the words right out of my mouth ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>took the words right out of my mouth </p>
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		<title>By: Dirk</title>
		<link>http://evenews24.com/2012/09/28/poetic-discourse-bottom-up-taxation-the-tools-already-exist/comment-page-1/#comment-152314</link>
		<dc:creator>Dirk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Sep 2012 13:35:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.evenews24.com/?p=21592#comment-152314</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Tax not me, tax not thee, tax the man behind the tree. Fuck that. It should all be bottom up. People say Eve is a game about space PVP. Or space industry. Or space whatever. It&#039;s not. It&#039;s all those and then some. It&#039;s about space society. And society, at the corp level, alliance level, or coalition level is about harnessing the power of each individual pilot/player to the benefit of the whole while still allowing for individual game play. It&#039;s a microcosm of the real world in many contexts. The majority of income should be derived from the players.  ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tax not me, tax not thee, tax the man behind the tree. Fuck that. It should all be bottom up. People say Eve is a game about space PVP. Or space industry. Or space whatever. It&#039;s not. It&#039;s all those and then some. It&#039;s about space society. And society, at the corp level, alliance level, or coalition level is about harnessing the power of each individual pilot/player to the benefit of the whole while still allowing for individual game play. It&#039;s a microcosm of the real world in many contexts. The majority of income should be derived from the players.  </p>
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		<title>By: Discordant Rhymes</title>
		<link>http://evenews24.com/2012/09/28/poetic-discourse-bottom-up-taxation-the-tools-already-exist/comment-page-1/#comment-152308</link>
		<dc:creator>Discordant Rhymes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Sep 2012 12:47:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.evenews24.com/?p=21592#comment-152308</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Why not just use the corp tax option that exists in game already? Future iteration could then simply add on an Alliance tax element to the overall tax burden of each transaction. No need for complex API calls and far easier to manage if the tax is payed as the member earns vOv ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why not just use the corp tax option that exists in game already? Future iteration could then simply add on an Alliance tax element to the overall tax burden of each transaction. No need for complex API calls and far easier to manage if the tax is payed as the member earns vOv </p>
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		<title>By: superstallion</title>
		<link>http://evenews24.com/2012/09/28/poetic-discourse-bottom-up-taxation-the-tools-already-exist/comment-page-1/#comment-152307</link>
		<dc:creator>superstallion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Sep 2012 12:38:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.evenews24.com/?p=21592#comment-152307</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[and yet, the effectiveness of this effort hinges on employee willingness to perform tasks (in a game) that are charged the lowest tax rate.  This is something that I do not believe will occur in enough of a volume to make the effort worthwhile. 
 
Otherwise, whats the point? ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>and yet, the effectiveness of this effort hinges on employee willingness to perform tasks (in a game) that are charged the lowest tax rate.  This is something that I do not believe will occur in enough of a volume to make the effort worthwhile. </p>
<p>Otherwise, whats the point? </p>
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		<title>By: Imigo</title>
		<link>http://evenews24.com/2012/09/28/poetic-discourse-bottom-up-taxation-the-tools-already-exist/comment-page-1/#comment-152293</link>
		<dc:creator>Imigo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Sep 2012 11:29:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.evenews24.com/?p=21592#comment-152293</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;If the new API infrastructure allows 3rd party applications to create contracts&quot; 
 
It doesn&#039;t yet. The only thing CCP are planning for the release of the CREST API is the ability to adjust standings. They&#039;re going to be very cautious about what they open up, and how they allow access, particularly when it comes to access to ISK (scam risk). ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&quot;If the new API infrastructure allows 3rd party applications to create contracts&quot; </p>
<p>It doesn&#039;t yet. The only thing CCP are planning for the release of the CREST API is the ability to adjust standings. They&#039;re going to be very cautious about what they open up, and how they allow access, particularly when it comes to access to ISK (scam risk). </p>
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		<title>By: Lucy</title>
		<link>http://evenews24.com/2012/09/28/poetic-discourse-bottom-up-taxation-the-tools-already-exist/comment-page-1/#comment-152292</link>
		<dc:creator>Lucy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Sep 2012 11:26:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.evenews24.com/?p=21592#comment-152292</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Someone does not understand this is suppose to be a game.. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Someone does not understand this is suppose to be a game.. </p>
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