Gevlon Globbin is famous in the Word of Warcraft circle for having mastered the “gold-cap” concept. His Eve journey show a very interesting “outside the box” approach to the game, PVE and the trade hubs, reason for which we invite you to pay a visit to his blog.
Greedy Goblin: Why PvE is Boring and “Carebear”?
The post of GamerChick42 is probably the best about the problems of PvE in EVE. Funnily she just used it as a metaphor for the same problem in her field: faction warfare button orbiting. Go and read it, it’s perfectly written.
OK, I know you were too lazy to read it so I summarize for you: mining is boring because it lack risks. No code changes like stronger belt rats or so can change that. They would be annoying at best, but the miners would adapt by fitting a better tank or simply putting a battleship to the mining fleet. The only way risks (therefore excitement, accomplishment, fun) could be included into mining by making players come after the miners. However players will not go after miners because they don’t want the rocks. Only bored gankers go after miners, and the best way to handle a bored kid is to bore him harder: dock when he arrives local so he finds nothing. The same is true for all kind of EVE PvE activity. No one tries to stop you from doing it. Not even the players who actually gank you try to stop you. They can’t care less what you do, they just go after the officer items on your mission battleship, the kill report or simply griefing.
Because of lack of risk and competition, PvE is both boring and “carebear”: an activity you could suggest to an 8 years old kid. You can write a protocol for every scripted PvE activity and the internet people do write such protocols, so playing PvE will always be “read up the proper site and follow the protocol”. Boring, dumb, uninteresting after the “woot spaceships” novelty fades.
You can’t write protocol for PvP. You can’t know how many, how good and how armed enemies will come. Even the most experienced FCs lose battles. Excitement, fun can only come from PvP after the novelty of the graphics and lore fades. To make a game permanently fun, it must be PvP. In WoW the players did it by the bosskill race. While the boss is scripted, the time to complete it depends on other people. Everyone will kill the boss but if you don’t hurry, you’ll do it as World #50000. Of course it always need new bosses, without constant content addition, WoW would die in half year.
EVE is fundamentally a PvP game, so it shouldn’t be so hard to modify PvE to be PvP: the devs must make other players want your resources. Currently no one wants your rocks or rats or missions. There is practically infinite amount of them. Currently EVE PvE is simple grind that converts time into ISK. If you have time, you will have ISK. Funnily the above setup not only makes PvE boring but also makes PvP rare and sporadic. You have no other reason to PvP than being bored. Someone attacking a miner or missioner is most likely a griefer: he would get more “character progression” by mining next to him instead, killing him has no reward.
EVE lacks proper conflict drivers. Not I say that, devs and CSM do. “Seleene responded by saying that these days the major players in each alliance all hang out in the same jabber channels and conversations after fights are more akin to chat after a friendly match (even though titans and super caps were destroyed) rather than ‘hatred’ – everyone is so filthy rich that losses really don’t matter. The ‘romance’ of old times, where hate and animosity where driving factors are largely gone. The sense of loss has turned from ‘damn, now I have to go and mine to afford all this stuff again’ to ‘man, now I have to go to the market and spend money.’”
“Major players” considering matches friendly is indeed lack of conflict. However his reasoning is conflicting itself “losses don’t matter” and “I have to go mine” (something I don’t like), are mutually exclusive. Let’s see some more quotes: “Two step clarified this by saying that there would be conflict drivers if it meant something to lose, in order to get mad at someone they have to do something to hurt you.”, ” It could be said that people are perhaps ‘too’ comfortable at present and even though resources (such a moon materials) are tempting, they are not tempting enough to ignite a war.” It seems they agree that losing items (fundamentally ISK) is conflict driver, but they don’t see the conflict emerging. “Seleene added to this that personal animosity is the best conflict driver in EVE, not resources or space.”, which is merely a rephrasing that CCP sucks in igniting conflict so hard that the word “mate” outperforms them.
Theoretically you have losses if you lose PvP: you lose your ship and probably implants. They cost ISK. You should be mad instead of giving “good fight lol”. Let’s see how the PvE problem creates the lack of PvP conflict:
Only bored people PvP, they do it for fun. (experimental axiom, everyone sees that)
If they lose, they lose ISK (fact)
To regain ISK they (or some pet of theirs) must do PvE (fact)
To do PvE they only need time (fact)
Time they have in large supply, since they did PvP against boredom at the first place
The fixing can only come at point 4: time must not guarantee you ISK. How can it be implemented? Let’s start with mining. Currently if you want to mine, all you need is a mining barge and time. Theoretically you need rocks too, but you also need air to breath while playing EVE, but you don’t mention it because air is there. To fix this, rocks must be rare. I mean so rare that there aren’t any floating peacefully. They should be so rare that if a belt respawns or a gravimetric signature appears, in 2 minutes someone should warp to it and start mining. The average player must spend 50-80% of his “mining time” not by mining but by hunting belts. The chance that you dedicate an hour mining, yet you fail to find a single rock and mine nothing should be significant.
In highsec it would only be a campfest with occasional ganking. In low, null and WH the key is that the spawn is random and cannot be triggered or directed any way. Sovereignity upgrades that allowed more or bigger rocks to spawn must be removed or changed into some utility like “rock detection array” that give bookmarks to members to newly spawned belts and a bonus to the scanners for finding gravs. The only way to increase the chance of rock spawning in your territory (sov or simply “your turf”) should be increasing your territory. The more systems you have, the more systems you can mine. Unless a mining covops Tengu gets there first.
Rat complexes should be the same. They should spawn so rarely that every beacon is camped and you have good chance to kill no rats at all. The only way to increase rat access should be increasing your controlled territory or driving away competing ratters.
There should be only one incursion spawning every week and if it’s done, it’s done.
Mission agents should have a limited amount of missions, new ones respawning over time. If an agent is out of missions, he can give out no more until next respawn. While camping rats and ores is OK since it involves being on grid and prone to be ganked, camping agents on stations would be a terrible mechanic. So I’d suggest bribing them. You can bid with ISK at the agent and the highest bidder gets the next mission.
Of course newbies should be protected from this, so lvl1 agents should have infinite amount of missions, 1/10 complexes should respawn fast. Giving infinite veldspar would be bad idea as tritanium is used even in Titans, so it would be better to just place more lvl1 mining agents to help newbie miners.
It’s quite clear how the above changes would turn PvE into PvP: the best way to get rocks is killing the other miner. But how would it revitalize PvP and change it from a consensual timesink into a dark and unforgiving battle? The reason why no one cares about battle losses is the guarantee that he can re-grind it any time, anywhere. The competition for PvE sites would mean that you might have to wait, or you might have to move.
Now if a nullsec alliance would lose all its ships and a thief would take all its wallet and its members had no money either, they could still surely raise a fleet for the next timer, assuming the members are motivated to do some grind for the alliance. With the new scheme a defeat can be decisive. The enemy could effectively deny you PvE at the limited sites by roams and black ops drops, making you unable to make ISK in null. Combined by the overcamped highsec where farming a battleship would take 30+ hours (which is OK for highsec players as they don’t lose it, so have to farm it once) losing your fleet or your wallet being robbed can mean that you are done: you lost your space, can’t PvE in null, have to farm 100+ hours on your highsec alts to have the half dozen ships needed to return. That would eradicate “good fight” from local.
Of course I’m not naive and don’t assume that CCP devs don’t know that. They designed the game as it is on purpose. The No1 rule of MMOs is that players don’t tolerate losses and quit if they have some. The only difference between WoW and EVE is the “respawn time”. In WoW you can run back to your corpse in a minute, in EVE “respawning” your lost ship can take 1-2 hours of grind.
However EVE isn’t beyond hope with the current settings either. The above statement is true with the cheap crap most PvP-ers fly. You can “respawn” a Drake in an hour. “Respawning” a Rokh takes 4-5 hours. A Navy Apocalyps cost 10 hours of grind, a lost dread or carrier can take away 30 hours. So having a fleet that can only be countered by expensive ships, you can actually win a war in the sense that the enemy is unable to “respawn” in time.
- Gevlon Goblin
And kill Eve as a game. That would be the result of the changes you propose.
TBH the current state of the game is slowly killing it, if you check jester's trek article on counting crows, you will see that eve has been stagnated even despite all the inferno / crucible goodies
EVE has been arround for several years. Usually products sales don't grow eternaly, an article that mentions the game isn't losing players after so much time just means that EVE is a solid game.
I had no intention of comenting the article "why PVE is boring", it's really absurd and not worth commenting.
Business schools teach now that if you dont grow sales EVERY year you are a failure.
I used to love PVE, ironically when i died alot cause didnt have the right ships or the isk to pimp them. Now that i do i just cba….prefer to just blow shit up.
Now I only PVE when my wallet gets low enough to force me, and tend to just burn anoms mindlessly for a few hours. (I pay for plex with real money btw)
I'll admit I'm lazy….but PVE just isnt so much fun for me no more.
What NEW Eden needs is another Incursion expansion which brought the numbers up for a sustained period according to Jester's article not this unresearched article based on nothing but what Gollein pulled out of his arse
a whole bunch of new incurionbears like *you* , no thanks !
They refuse to fix mining in lowsec and 0.0…
Grav sites are a joke, if anyone's seen them, they are mostly made of spodumain…
This CSM was supposed to fix these things and instead we got ANOTHER FW expansion on the way. FW is fine and all but they have been bleeding miners for 4 years now.
Why you think trit is so high? The bots are gone, drones and gone and noone is left to fill the void.
First off if EVE inmplemented your sugested changes they would kill of there player base.
your forgetting over 60% of eve population is residing in highsec. that means killing off highsec is killing the game as they are risking that half of thoes players cancel there subscription. and that means layoff and an appology from Hillmar and big boost for Highsec players.
You got to accept that some players enjoy doing mindless things, you can not change them.
They can fix lowsec / nullsec mining by adding a capital class minining vessel that can chew throug belts at an alarming rate. not only will it boost Lowsec/Nullsec mining but it will make more persons try mining in thoes enviroments.
to believe a capital mining vessel will fix low/null mining makes me triplefacepalm
Most mining is anti-social. If you want to mine more you don't join up with your friends, you get another few accounts going and watch more movies.
FW is a social activity. If you want to succeed you DO band together with new people who will most likely become your friends even outside of FW. Let's pretend both were completely "fixed". Which do you suppose would retain more players long term? Now you have the answer to why CCP are putting more resources into FW (or anything for that matter) than into mining.
eve over the last few years is the *only* mmo which has constant, slightly upgoing user numbers – even WoW is losing users nowadays.
Jester is claiming stagnation since his blog exists, he also declared ccp bankrupt like over a year ago, and according to him eve is dying all the time.
Why does he post stuff like that? because it brings readers to his blog.
so hes in good hands joining you guys, i mean after all you are testgoons, and we all know what goons set as their goal years ago.
You can be in a kungfu panda in wow soon! Hurry get your pre-order testi!
SRY, but your proposals would turn away a lot of players.
Especially miners, they normally like the "boring" gamestyle and often they AREN'T interested in PvP.
the game goes from boring to not playing cause its lame.
"They should be so rare that if a belt respawns or a gravimetric signature appears, in 2 minutes someone should warp to it and start mining."
"Rat complexes should be the same. They should spawn so rarely that every beacon is camped and you have good chance to kill no rats at all. "
"Mission agents should have a limited amount of missions, new ones respawning over time. If an agent is out of missions, he can give out no more until next respawn."
Sheer idiocy of this idea is staggering. Is it so hard to understand boring stuff remains (or becomes even more) boring even when you have to pay all your attention to it?
Adding more risk to boring PvE won't make it less shit, it will just drive prices up and alienate more players. Sid Meier once said that "games are a series of interesting decisions". Offering interesting problems to solve should be priority, not cutting off player's finger for every wrong answer or every ten seconds spent not staring into monitor.
Make asteroids destructible.
When you chase out the miners the roamers can watch some nice explosions of the asteroids blowing up knowing that with the days it takes to regenerate they are actually hindering the miners. Instant conflict generator.
It is the combination of infinite and non-destructible resources that it the root of the problem.
I like this add on. I have to agree with this article and your comment in particular.
Sadly I believe most game players would find this game "too extreme" including many of the EVE players that claim to be "hard". Just like the chorus of boo's that comes out anytime someone says eliminate local. Eliminating local has many upsides but even the so called "hardened" EVE player isn't prepared to live with more pain and loss.
if you like to eliminate local then move into a bloody WH:)
A) I do live in a wormhole although with alts as I do also live in null sec.
B)I never suggested eliminating local I was simply making the point that people become very sensitive at the idea of EVE becoming truly hard….like you are doing now
C)I believe this game would truly benefit from higher consequences to losing ships…IE alliances not being able to fight due to running out of resources.
Thanks for suggesting my banishment to a wormhole though.
I think the better way of doing it is to make some resources commonly available, such as l1-2-3 missions for example, but 4s and 5s are restrained.
The most fun I have ratting comes from scanning the anoms, which arent always there, and which dont always drop loot worthy of the effort. It would be great if there is always some baseline isk generation, which is sufficiently inferior to "peak" generation of both effort and luck; for example if the common asteroid belts only dropped 20-33% of the minerals/unit time, but there were such random spawns such as the scannable belts, which deplete faster but give 150% mineral supply/unit time.
The mix between a gamble and a sure reward is good. The problem right now is the optimum efficiency of just about any isk generation can be obtained by boring repetitive acts. In 0.0 holding sov doesnt really mean much right now; if that were to chance, wars would get a lot more interesting.
bunch of crap suggestions, wow. All of your ideas are based off the hard-core players, those who spend 20+ hrs a week in-game and maximize their income potential. No consideration for those who either don't spend that much time in-game or don't maximize their income potential. I understand the desire for players to have corpmates who have high income rates to easily replace ships and all, but as far as the RL business world goes, cutting your playerbase down to hardcore only when it's already such a niche game is suicide.
This is soo bad,pvp is what a minority of us specialize in in EVE Entities such as Dotbros kick ass at pvp,and that is there way of playing the game.
PVE is boring & is sadly what 0.0 is becoming,a huge blue pve ratting faggotry boring crap.
Wonder how many lost subscriptions CCP will get when 0.0 is all/majority blue,will only lose more players than EVE is losing at the moment out of inactivity,and no real goals to aim for.
first clear everyone's wallet to zero, then consider make any change to PVE content, otherwise richer will get richer, poorer will get poorer.
I guess you have never had to fight over officer and faction spawns…
Interesting comment: “The average player must spend 50-80% of his “mining time” not by mining but by hunting belts.”
That’s the exact reason I don’t pvp much anymore: 50-80% of my “pvp time” (actually, more) was spent hunting. Got so bored of trying to find someone to pew I lost interest in it.
Is this retard really suggesting people PvP because they are bored???? Why would anyone play a game to begin with.
Sorry I dont enjoy shooting rocks or NPCs. If I can not play a game without enjoying it I don't play.
I enjoy PvP.
There are other people who enjoy mining, many find it relaxing even. If they cant mine or PvE they won't play.
They enjoy PvE
Simple as that.
I want to log in and have some fun. If I cant jump in a ship and shoot just some people I will no longer play this game
Mining and Ice Harvesting are currently for the most part passive low attention activities rather than in any sense a "game". I believe that the rewards of mining should be related to the effort expended and this requires CCP to change the mechanics and mining to become a mini-game in itself.
Make it collaborative but not in such a way that results in mining fleet blobs.
Make it challenging and dynamic so people need to pay attention.
Make active and thoughtful gameplay result in extra rewards .
eg Variable optimal ship to asteroid laser ranges and player discoverable and settable varying harmonic frequencies for crystals and roids.
With a new mining mechanic in place if you wish to carry on as it currently stands then the yields and rewards should drop below their current yield but if a mechanism can be devised by CCP so that mining is an activity rather than something that is done when inactive then yield and reward would scale with effort. If thought and effort were to become involved then mining and ice harvesting would become something other than the repetitive time to ISK conversion that they are today.
what a bad baaaaad idea this is, what a great way to make all noobs leave
the game is already hard and there are a lot of people who just want to pvp but have around 10mill sp and making the isk that they need in order to keep pvping they have to do the boring stuff that is just hardly worth it…
you people are misguided…
the problem is not that mining or pvp is too easy and therefore boring, the problem is that it isn't dynamic and that makes it boring… make it dynamic but not by constantly making someone reship or something coz that just annoys the person… i want to be able to make isk and feel just how i feel after pvping "good fight, i had fun" make mining a little action game where you have an option of mining in a 'game mode'
you would have two buttons to chose from 'mine' or 'dynamic mine' standard mining would get you say 50m2 of ore per second while in dynamic mode you would have to point with mouse at the rock in some way… maybe you could have like a scanner in "Mass Effect 2" (the xbox game) where you would have to scan the rock and click on hotspots. in that way if you chose to go with dynamic mode you can make up to 100m2 of ore/sec if you do it well or just 5m2/sec if u do it badly.
there is your risk factor, you can thing of a different mechanics for this 'action game' but there should be an action game where you can choose to take the risk and end up with better or worse yield than the current standard.
********how is this not a perfect idea and why has this not been done years ago? why implement the whole PI? who can be asked to do it? its boooooooring and rewards are just not good enough, but if a miner can double his income by playing an fps-style game while he mines now that would make the game quite a bit more fun for them and all of a sudden dynamic mining could make you more isk than bots can**** you get to chose wether u just want to relax and grind the roks the usual way or if u want some pve fps fun that will get u more isk if u put some effort into it and or save you time just by playing harder not by having the patience to just sit and stare and wait for a white bar to go all red or asteroid to pop or can to be full
in general i personally agree, BUT if only those that are bored PvP and whilst the majority does not, that concludes people are not bored of their mining or l4 missions in empire thus CCP does not have to change it….
about the isk comfort etc etc. people are always running after easy isk. They did
- starting with empire lvl 5 missions
- when the tier 1 faction BSs were introduced in FW (fw space was swarmed by solo Bombers running missions completely safe)
- the anomaly upgrades
- in incursions
- ending with FW spinning around the buttons now
there are other main problems that ccp should focus on. for example running a 5/10 in low sec, which can be finished withing 10-15 minutes, might end running away with 1bil when running a 7-8/10 in 00 will most likely consume more than 1 hr soloing it and will give much less profit.
personally despite living in low sec, listening to the inhabitants moaning about CCPs' attention focusing only in 0.0 makes me sick. the ones that are seeing their PvE getting nerfed are the ones of 0.0. In the past i was doing the ratting thing hunting the jackpot officer, nowadays to kill him you must bring a whole fleet and split the loots, so the jackpot turns out to be a candy present. The plexes in 0.0 are hard and even if they drop something the isk/hr ratio is low, not even to mention the high possibility of them dropping nothing….
0.0 must become once again the place where you risk and you get rewarded. Too much isk to be made in the safety of empire and low sec systems.
so, the conclusion is, that it's the players that are running after the easy isk. It's not CCPs' fault.
"Limited missions" and "reducing trit" are you fucking retarded???? Are you trying to kill this game to gt more subs for WoW? Tin foil hat plz……….
Sounds more like minecraft than MMO bread and butter.
Wow, reading this was like watching a train wreck. Beyond all of your lunacy, doing PVP because you are bored is amazing. Also in that weird place called "null sec" are these weird places called "sites" that have high reward but high risk because amazingly, other players are seeking you out to kill you in them. This is why it's called "null sec".
Hehehe y i loled at that to. PvP because im bored.
as i said before this guy is writing about stuff that he has never done and does not understand at all.
in various of his blog posts he shows strong learning resistances, the inability to separate his experiences from stuff he makes up and completely fails at to grasp any pvp players motivations.
What you want greed goblin, is something called Wormholes
Where sites all need to be scanned, and random people come to gank you from the darkness.
please try to research ALL aspects of a game before commenting on it
Mining is boring because its *F1, F2; come back 30 minutes later* not because of rock rarity.
"Giving infinite veldspar would be bad idea as tritanium is used even in Titans"
Nothing wrong with infinite veldspar, if it was the only static rock it would drive ship prices down as, in your version of eve, it would take forever to get even a small amount of isk.
is it more fun warping around looking for an asteroid belt than it is mining? no.
Master Reset.
All player owned EVERYTHING is gone. Every sub gets SP credit for current skills and 1 billion ISK.
Just for kicks. Spawn everyone in Jita.
It would take YEARS to sort 0.0 again (changing moon composition disposition wouldn't be necessary but changing which moon has which mineral would create more of a challenge).
it would take years to get out of jita with TiDi.
Your points about the game are very subjective and show your little understanding of EVE dynamics. "The only difference between WoW and EVE is the “respawn time”." <- this basically summarizes your article. I hope your ideas will never get heard or this game will be ruined with no recovery.
"IF" this was put in place your talking about the increase in risk aversion activities. I think this would do the opposite of what your thinking.
only the cream of the crop really have the isk to brush off lost ships. IF what your saying is true about everyone having so much isk ship replacement programs would not have any effect on recruitment.
also i wonder what effect this would have on plex. would people use even more real life money to play at the perceived lvl of the players who are rich?
I think there must be more decisions to make in PvE circumstances, more "interactive" mission running, mining and ratting. It'll never be the right way to punishing people for not staring at the Monitor. To be honest, Isk farming through ratting, mission running so on and so forth is extremely boring, but compared to farming "stuff" in WoW, which meens crafting mats, Gold et cetera, it can be funny.
But, you cannot compare the PvE-Content based on killing bosses, racing for Server or World First kills with farming isk's by ratting etc. Eve does not have this kind of PvE-content for very good reasons – cuz its a system out of the dark age. Fantasy-based MMO's in the near future do not have these System of grinding down bosses, it is a relic from Mario Bros and equal games.
One of the "better" ways, in my humble opinion, is to making the farming-section less boring and more decision-based, implementing new mission features, more epic arcs, more types of Missions and Plexes not by cutting them off.
YOu used a lot of words to say something reaaaaal simple
PvE= Easy and lacks risk
PvP= Fun, hard, challenging..
There, just saved you a lot of time reading this very dry article
You are proving that you have little understanding of why others play Eve. If CCP implemented the changes you suggest, I would quit paying my monthly subscription.
I am a megalomaniac and a tycoon character. I see wealth as power, not missles and killmails. To me, becoming wealthy IS the game.
Do I suck at PvP? Hell yes. Would a PvP only game get me to pay? No way.
So please, CCP, if you are reading this, please keep the sandbox such that we all can pursue our goals, not just the (b)leeding PVPers.
Dear Gevlon,
If you don't like mining, do t do it, a d certainly don't try proposing suggestions for an activity that you don't participate in, with the expectation of making it “less boring” for people who aren't you. Your idea falls apart due to all the assumptions you make being incorrect.
People do PvP for the rush, not because they are bored.
People do acquire ISK through non PvE means, such as for example trading skill books on the market.
To do PvE such as mining you need SP invested in mining skills. That is time spent, which can't be spent on something else. So someone spilling up for PvP isn't going to hop into a hulk and mine their way to wealth.
Time is not in great supply, since the PvPers are spending as much of their time PvPing as they can.
All your assumptions are wrong. You ignore the income stream that earned you your own ISK, and you are trying testing changes to a part of the game that you are not involved in. Don't let the door hit your arse on the way out.
In the meantime if you want to look at PvP in mining, get in contact with me and I will introduce you to competitive mining. You might also check my blog on altering mining, from a miner's perspective: mararinn.blogspot.com.au/2012/04/mining-is…
"There should be only one incursion spawning every week and if it’s done, it’s done."
Why? The fight against Sansha is on going battles a constant war. You want to destroy the already decimated communities like the lo/null communities were killed off? Are you jelly of the only worthwhile group PvE left in all of HI SEC?
Sounds like Goblin x'd up in a Drake or a frigate & got PO'd because noone would fleet him.
Before the Escalation nerf Incursions were a success storyof PvE now its an example o what happenswhen CCP fucks up & over nerfs instead of giving PvE the attentionitneeds tocontinueto be fun.
BRING BACK THE SANSHA LIVE EVENTS!!! Or better yet a new Incursion
"It’s quite clear how the above changes would turn PvE into PvP: "
Bullshit you would drive a significat portion of Eve which does enjoy PvE out of the game. EvE is significantly a PvP game but it is also PvE and your ideas remind me of the bullshit whine threads about how to force HI SEC player out into NULL.
All your ideas would do is INCREASE THE GRIND and make EvE MORE BORING
A Drake is only cheap to space rich Alliances which violate your incorrect fact: "To regain ISK they (or some pet of theirs) must do PvE (fact)" Moon mining is NOT PvE FACT!
Interesting that you seem to suggest nerfing everything EXCEPT the part of the game were you made your ISK!
When i lose a ship in pvp i got and pvp on the market to earn money. PVP IS MY LIFE.
You don't know anything about EVE. It's amazing to me you're even a player.
First of all, a little while back, for about 3 months solid, miners were dying left and right. I am actually the only miner in my group that I know of who didn't successfully get ganked, but I was also the only one willing to sacrifice cycle for tank. Prices were beautiful, and I was making billions. Ever since the miner buff, yes, mining is more boring again. But it's what I like to do.
You try to turn mining in pvp… oh wait, you can't you idiot. Dropping sec statuses would mean missioning. And oh yeah, having to scavenge for belts would make prices INSANE! You think the goonie rage was bad, imagine having someone be LUCKY enough to mine some ore in one hour. And also, how quickly do you think someone would leave a game structured in this way, do you want EVE to failscade?
Considering the troll-like nature of this first thought, I couldn't be bothered to read the rest of the article
Totally agree, mining in empire is boring, mining in low-sec and 0.0 are stupid.
Devs have never fixed either of those two points.
I must agree this is one of the worst analyse of the Highsec issue.
I have said it numerous times they should buff the Lowsec/Nullsec variants and not nerf the highsec variants.
for the mining my sugestion is simple
add a capital class mining barge that can chew rocks fast.
not only will it increase the risk for the mininer (More expensive ship on the line)
but in low/null in the belt there is no Concord there is no help if they get caught.
You seem to have missed the whole point. I guess all miners have missed it. PvE to make ISK….. and what do carebears do with ISK? Just look at the numbers get bigger I guess?
PvPers use ISK to PvP, and generally only PvE to make ISK so they can go PvP again. So from a PvP point of view, this mix of PvE and PvP would be perfect. It would also give new objectives for PvP (get that belt or anom), other than just plain kills – that don't mean as much anymore, and sov/moon fights – something you can't generally do with a small gang
That is possibly the worst article I'v ever seen on this website.
You're fired.
who the fuck is this goblin guy anyway? he clearly doesn't know how EVE works or what is required these days to keep the economy in order
Go back to wow asshat
"Go back to wow" The forever and eternal reply for those that have no reply and desperately want to say something.
Your posts are weak old man.
GO BE A KUNG FU PANDA MANG!
i don't get why the blog of a noob who's mostly writing about stuff that he doesn't know anything about is syndicated here.
Again, someone who only understand his own game style play and anybody who doesn't like what he likes is wrong.
OTHER PPL LIKES OTHER THINGS….
In this cares they don't want other players annoying them in there calm littel "chilling / reelaxing" world.
PS. I see this point is not lost on most eve players (comments). THANKS, PHYYYYYY
The pure difference by World of Warcraft and Eve online is, that WoW is for puppies. You die you run back to your dead body, take your items and go again. You do not loose anything. When I see the last articles about an infamous Pet alliance get robbed by some player, it makes it more clearly: In Eve you can loose everywhere everything unless you stay docked in highsec. There for there should be a relative safe way to get isk .
I mean old players have many more skills and isk than the noobs, but the are not the whole community. "time must not guarantee ISK" is a industrial way to get more profits out of the game with PLEX or sth. . The game is not as easy to get in like WoW or Farmville. You need at least some brain. But every game which wants to live on, has to get constantly new players. So if you want to make it even harder to start up, gogogo with that phrase. And then you should go to EA or Vivendi Universal, that fits to your kind of gamer, you buy apple product do you, the i phone 5 is like a family member, no?
Did you actually think about every idea you had and the pro's and cons and the why's and why not's of each detail???
If we were playing YOUR version of eve i would have to pay 100 mil for a damn rifter because it would probly take a full day of grinding to make. There's a reason why mining is the way it is. Half the people i know that do it are always half tanked, or are doing background afk activities. It's important that mining and missions are the way they are, sure they could be tweaked here and there im not gonna argue that but if you've been paying attention the last few months CCP has been constantly talking about more interactive activities such as the 'Ring Mining' thats coming out, the slow removal of all passive incomes of eve.
Theres seriously way too many ways CCP could improve the game to get more excitement out of it then i can talk about here, but have faith my fellow evenites CCP has taken care of us time and time again, minus a few setbacks :S they always will.
Simple solution: limit the amount of anomalies in system to max 4, remove hidden belts. Now, when 1000 man alliance income can be generated in 3 systems with truesec -0,5 it is crazy.
Alliances with no rules and CTA duties can live in nullsec without paying rent. "Rare" ores are ridiculously easily accessible. Master alliances dont feel the need to replace lazy pets, because nobody is really missing their space.
If CCP removes the bad things that makes systems "overvaluable", miners will be able to mine – if fighters will guard the space from intruders and from alliances that will wish to take their precious land, and of course – if they will keep some duties, because if they dont, in empire there will be 10 other miners waiting to get opportunity to mine arkonor and bistot instead of them.
Basically the same would apply to ratters – only those willing to join CTAs and spend long time in fleets will be rewarded with possibility to farm in -0,8 system. Now nobody needs -0,8 system, Forsaken Hubs are everywhere.
That are reasons of inflation of stuff, space, and lack of willingness to fight, and no hatred. Because there is actually nothing really valuable in this game anymore.
I'm a pvper. I dont pvp because im bored. I PvP because it is ~fun~. Everything you just described is :work: Eve is boring as it is, regardless. Even the pvp isnt fast paced like… MW3 or w/e.
The point is, i pve to pvp. If pve is difficult, then what would encourage ppl to pvp? Why would guys go to 0.0 if they have to run around and hunt belts all day so they can fly a batteship? And how would this encourage roaming? Wont you get an elite ~already rich~ few running around while everyone else is trying to make a dime?
What i see happening are richer alliances that have large wallets of tech rolling over everyone else in the game. Hell, if you want HBC/ CFC to take all of eve, plz- introduce this concept. Even though im in HBC, eve would be boring with no one to shoot at. I need to keep shooting makalu, its fun- though my free rifter bank is taking a hit.
Your suggestion of making EVE fun is:
1.Totally wreck the people who manufacture the modules and ships.
2. Perpetually lose ships and modules for the sake of "fun"
3. Wreck the economy as nobody can afford ships and modules.
4. Encouraging PLEXing for silver bullets and golden hulls.
Has it ever occurred to you that there are people in Null and WH space who NEED to defensively PvP and that it's not fun?
Wanna know how to help hisec carebears and miners?
LEAVE THEM THE F#*K ALONE!!!
Da Faq did I just read?!?!
0.0
I don't agree with your 'facts'. I'm pretty sure the guy who just popped that Prowler full of Overseer's Effects won't need to PVE for a while unless he's titan shopping, or finds another hapless Prowler with 50 bil in it. That's an extreme example but there certainly are people who PVP for profit. TEARS, PL… there's a list.
This isn't broken. You don't like PVE – don't do it. Can't find a way to make money doing PVP? I'd say that's a failing on your part, not the game's. Do MOST pilots get their isk in a PVE fashion – yeah maybe, but much of that ISK feeds PVP so there's a definite link. It's not CCP's job to make the wheel spin for you.
hey this sounds awesome why dont CCP just make it so difficult for you to do anything that you have no choice but to blue up everyone so that you can hopefully get some of that shrinking pie your describing.
and to furhter add to the idiocy of these ideas we leave lvl 1 mission agents alone so that newbies can into the game, so that they can do what ? sit and wait for a chance to mine something, and die horribly in their new ore frigates, just so that they have to go back to the lvl 1 mission agents and try again, you will end up with everyone running lvl 1 missions.
your version of this game is that if your no blue dont even bother.
Stopped reading when he started to compare eve pvp to an aspect of WoW gameplay. This guy is as clueless as it gets when it comes to eve. Why do we have to read his stupid uniformed rants. Nobody cares what some guy who was actually stupid enough to play WoW until he capped on jewgold has to say about eve.
Dumbest shit i've read in awhile.
Some people play EVE to make ISK.
PVE = ISK making
PVP = ISK spending
One cannot live without the other.
Deal with it.
The editor of this article should be shot. I could not get past the second paragraph due to the poor grammar, bad spelling, and incoherent sentences. If you are going to run a news site you really need to find writers that show an aptitude for writing or at the very least are able to use a spell checker.
Tl;dr: … KILL DIE DIE DIE DESTROY MUHAHAHAHAHA!!11!!1!1!!!!!
For some reason many people seem to think that PVE is mining only, I guess that is just the Suicide Gankers who live for Hulkageddon. PVE is much more than Mining. Its missions, planetary interaction, exploration, anomming, manufacturing, running the market, and much much more. Why people seem to focus on mining as the only thing that is PVE is beyond me.
If you havent noticed they are going to introdue NPC AI Changes to make the belt rats more dangerous thereby making mining less safe when rats arrive. As it is mining is not boring if you are doing it in a fleet because it is now a social gathering. And yes if you want you can ignore everyone and solo mine if you choose.
The problem here is that most of the people who are complaining are upset because they cant suicide gank anymore and they are too terrified to do it in Null-Sec. PVE is an integral part of the game, if you open it up to too much risk then new players will quit and subscriptions will dry up. Then the game will die. When you speak of PVE, think, if it goes away and all that is left is PVP and Griefing, how long will the game last?