Every now and then Corelin bring his heavy handed ramblings and points of views to Eve News24, we invite you to read more of his stories at his Mad Haberdashers blog.

Mad Haberdashers: Sexism in EvE – Male Privilege

So I was reading through random news when something came up. I’ll admit to being a feminist. I’m one of those wild, uncontrollable loons who thinks women should be treated with respect and dignity as much or as little as men. That they should have the same expectation of a safe public environment as men. So the story is a police officer in Arizona got drunk, drove himself to a bar, flashed his badge to skip the cover and entered a bar, then groped a woman to include sliding a hand up her skirt and “running his fingers across her genitals.” The jury handed down a conviction and the judge went to sentence the case. Being a fair judge in a modern sensible courtroom she of course placed full blame on the public servant who utterly failed in his responsibilities as a police officer, a human being and a man and willingly chose to violate multiple laws, common decency and good order. Alternately she said this to the victim:


“If you wouldn’t have been there that night, none of this would have happened to you,”

- and -

“When you blame others, you give up your power to change,”

Sadly the correct answer is B. Apparently women aren’t supposed to go to bars. If they are foolish enough to go to bars they should be willing to accept that men whom they normally expect not only to obey the law but to uphold it to break it in some of the most disgusting ways possible. I’m leaving the names out as the judge in question HAS come forward and apologized for her comments to the satisfaction of the victim in this case, but still, to me, there’s clearly a problem in the system.

Yes I’ll bring it back to EvE.

Ever wonder why there aren’t many women in the game? Ever wonder why most MMOs don’t have that many women? Because of this crazy “locker room atmosphere” where everyone thinks it’s hilarious to spam dicks in local. Because of this crazy “locker room atmosphere” where rape jokes ARE STILL CONSIDERED HILARIOUS. Because of this crazy “locker room atmosphere” where a woman who expresses disgust at disgusting conversations isn’t apologized to and made to feel more comfortable, but instead told to HTFU.

That’s not what HTFU means guys. HTFU means when your ship blows up whether it’s a Thrasher, a Hookbill, a Guardian, a Navy Mega or a shiny-fit Bhaalgorn you realize that it’s EvE, ships go boom and YOU accept responsibility for YOUR actions. You chose to undock those ships, you chose to put them in the line of fire knowing that ships going boom = EvE. HTFU does not mean you can sperg your drek in local, or even in pub rooms and expect people to put up with your shit. I’m a man. I’m accountable. If I say something awesome, you know damn well I’m taking credit for it, so if I say something terrible I’m damn well expected to own up, apologize and deal with the consequences.

We don’t play like that in EvE. We shit up local. We make “sammich” jokes. We make rape jokes. God forbid a female voice comes up on comms or else the shit will really get out of hand.

Then we wonder why women don’t play EvE. We assume they don’t want to play it because it’s hard. That’s not it. Most women like a challenge. They don’t want to play with us. They don’t want to play with sexist assholes.

- Corelin

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  • insert name here

    what the fuck did i just read?

    • OMGFrigates Warpout

      An obvious shit filled article by someone looking to get his dick wetted by some ultra-feminazi of course.

  • ohwow

    Or, you know, stop taking everything everyone says to heart?

  • anatlasgoon

    Repost if you are a strong-willed black woman who doesn't need no man to know she's beautiful.

  • Plox

    Tits or gtfo

  • pew pew

    instead of raging on the forums you decided this was news?

  • Joozd

    Yes, that must be the reason why women play less computer games in general, and less nerdy spreadsheet/spaceships in particular. The people spamming dicks in local.

  • OldxPlayer

    another reason why the players list continues to be reduced. The early players were good hard fighting and playing ones…and now, well…..just those without enough guts to do the same in RL.

  • http://gamingmod.blogspot.co.uk/ Versuvius Marii

    Amusingly enough, my gf has recently started playing Eve as she's annoyed with how dumbed down WoW is getting. And would you believe it, she joins in with the dick jokes because she has a sense of humour. Not all women are as narrow-minded as you make them out to be.

  • carla

    ok this is an actual female posting who plays Eve. I play it because I like the game, I come home after being nice to people all day and I want to blow stuff up. I play with people I know from work. I appreciate what you are saying and don't want to contradict you especially when you are talking about the bar. The test there is would the cop be able to walk into a bar and slide his hands into a guys pants who didn't want to be fondled – noone would say, "hey that guy who got fondled shouldn't have been at the bar it's his fault", probably fist swing instead and the cop gets thrown off the force by his superior, so yeah different rules applying to the same situation for men and women, yeah that is sexist. I would like to point out a few things that I see differently from you next,

    a) Men can and are raped too and men refer more to raping each other than raping women. So when I here the word rape in eve I don't consider myself especially singled out because I'm female. Am I wrong or are guys usually talking about raping each other? Rape is used as a word for getting your way against someone elses will, not in a particular aggression against females. Sure some females may notunderstand the terminology and it turns them off. For me I just hear it as a way of saying haha I got my way at a point in time in the game.

    b) Women aren't so different from men. There I said it. I realize probably absolutely none of you believe that and I accept that, and yes that is part of the ego trip of male privilege and it's extremely popular to point out right now that "men and women cannot be friends", yawn, i.e. the only thing they really have in common to share is sex and otherwise a male would not be interested in hanging out with a female. However when you see a cat or dog do you think "oh gosh the females and the males are so different that you see for example "male" before you see "cat", no you see and think cat first when trying to understand the behavior. I'm sure another species looking at humans sees us as simply human. Cats have a lot in common with other cats, dogs have a lot in common with other dogs. In the case of games, if I have something in common with other players by liking to play a game we could be considered in game friends. Many may no even know I"m female until they hear my voice. Maybe at that point when they don't consider me human enough to have anything in common with them friendship wise and game wise but hey that's their problem. if it's a game and I like it I'm going to play it. I don't think most care as long as they get to try to blow me up like everyone else. I feel the same way.

    c) Probably the biggest reason women do not play as many hardcore games as men is time. Yes life isn't fair and women still end up doing a crapload more work then men when you count kids, home chores, cooking and regular paid work in. So grats guys for having more spare time. I don't have kids yet which is probably why I can play eve.Ok I lied I would probably plop the kid in my lap and play games like the guy in our group who has a two year old. Get ready there are more and more women like me out there. I'm sure we will be blamed for the next generation of kids playing even more online games.

    d) thank you for the write up, it's appreciated, and yes the judge and cop had serious issues about male privilege. Most Eve players, bless them, just want to kill you, whether you are a female, male, or a cat who just sat on the keyboard. And if a teammate is coming to fight with you and you need the numbers are you really going to turn that teammate down because she has ovaries? I thought not. Sure in griefing, being female, homosexual or any other state that is used as an object of derision is going to be thrown around which is in my book uncreative boring griefing and yes we get it because of who we are and is it fair, nope. However until there is another game about blowing people ups in spaceships that's as interesting as Eve, I will play this game. I think at this point my team has forgotten I'm female, so much so that they called me the homosexual f word the other day like they call everyone else and I sort of just smiled to hear it. That was the first time in my life I'd been called a fa**ot. Oddly it felt like one of the best compliments as a player I'd ever had and my apologies to any gays who may take offense, in that case it just meant I wasn't being treated differently. Yes being female in this game can suck, especially when your voice is heard by people who don't know you, however, I just try to forget about it and play it and have fun.

    • Fan of EvE not CCP

      Love hearing girls over comms! Hate feminists 'cause you screwed chivalry over!

    • ncdotdotdot FAT

      +11111111 to carla

      this topic its to much to comment and my english sucks anyway , but the dude(or) who write this article i think u are wrong

    • Burseg Sardaukar

      You nailed my opinions.

      I went to PAX East this past spring and there was a whole panel that was devoted to griefing… well, only griefing towards women. Needless to say I walked away pretty pissed off, because the women at the panel believed they were subject to undue harassment because of their gender. Sure, the sexual innuendo is out of control when the males they play with are immature, but those SAME immature individuals would harass any person that is different. If there is a black guy, he'll be told to go pick cotton, if its a little kid, he'll be told to come back when his balls drop, if he's Asian they'll ask how it feels to have a 2 inch cock so on and so on. It's not gender, its differences.

      Needless to say, if there wasn't a 200 man line that stacked up at the Q&A portion to kiss the female panelists' asses, i would've asked the women if they could lean a little closer to my bucket so I could catch all their tears.

  • dumbass

    HTFU

  • Emmy

    This is a horrible article. As a woman who plays EVE I can say you have no idea what the hell you are talking about. Now shut up or I'll put on a strap on and rape you.

    • dotbro

      Dominated.

    • Conrad

      /thread

    • Tribble

      This response is full of win. Gas OP, Burn Thread.

    • BillyBob

      Shut up and take all my upvotes.

      And in my experirience the women of eve are some of the most brutal and cold blooded players in the game.

    • Shae

      As a woman who plays EVE I can honestly say i totally agree with emmy.

  • DarthNefarius

    Well Eve is much like the rest of the internet in this respect: we are hiding behind an avatar & can do absolutley foolish things that are not accepted insociety like: kill other poeple, make bad jokes, scam with impunity, lie, cheat & steal and be masoginistic jerks.
    I perfer not to do most of the above in game but that is just me. But when I see it go to far in mixed company I do 'straighten up & draw the line: TALK ABOUT RELIGION IN MY FLEET & I'LL KICK YOU ;)

  • seph

    people in fleets say offensive stuff in general, its not directed solely at women. Though I can see if you have no sense of humor, or soft the big social aspect might not apeal to you.

    Though, I think dick jokes and offensive jokes in general tend to be the domain of large alliances , namely goons test and others of similar culture. If you never go to that part of null you will never know.

  • Wut?

    A) its a game. B) they tell you on the box there is a language component that, for the most part, barring extreme circumstances will not be censored. C) if you don't like the language in a specific channel FUCKING LEAVE. D) what channels are you hanging out in that rape jokes and profanity are that bad? I've been in several null sec alliances and at times had 10-15 channels open on my chars, and I have never seen the kind of atmosphere you are describing.

    • M1k3y

      C) Wait, you can leave local channel? (Leaving the system doesn't count, sometimes you have to be in a specific system)

      • Opner Dresden

        Perhaps instead of one of the damn scanning missions… they can add a "block user" tutorial mission.

        Seriously, how the fuck do you shop in any trading post?

  • Lube

    Get a boyfriend and get raped … finally

    • M1k3y

      You are bad and should feel bad.

  • LOL.

    your in the wrong alliances.

    • David_Star

      You're using the wrong word.

  • Guest

    tl;dr
    Is that a "cop goes to a bar" joke and what has it got to do with eve online?

    • Guest

      You're using tl;dr incorrectly.

  • Titans for noobs

    HTFU an make me a sammich this is all

  • NinjaTurtle

    WHY WAS THAT FUNNY
    CAUSE HE WAS DRESSED LIKE A CLOWN

  • Norsk

    can i see your tits

  • Will

    Feminists; killing chivalry and complaining about the results thereof since the 60s.

    • Puck

      That's kind of true. There are some parts of the feminist movement that have completely forgotten the operational definition of -equality-. They want to have their cake and eat it, too.
      But really, some of the stuff guys post… a lot of the really "involved" local trolls are just embarrassing to be associated with. I've got no problem being considered a nerd for playing this game, but I don't want to be considered a brainless, misogynistic racist just because some dolt thinks it "doesn't count" when they aren't using their real name.
      That is cowardice. No question about it.

      • BPr

        This!

  • Anon

    I met my current girlfriend through EvE, I volunteer as a self defense trainer at my gym. I've always said that within my alliance you are a gamer, not a guy, not a girl. I don't tolerate harassment of any sort, yet with that come the understand jokes are fair game. I've even banned using the term 'rape' in any gaming context. Point of this is there is a fine line between being harassed and wanting to be treated special. There is a difference between respect/equality and special privilege. I know girls day in and out in this game that use their gender to try and further their own goals or shield themselves from harsh critism. Equal is equal.

    • sdffssdf

      1 word : mintchip

  • M1k3y

    I'm a guy and even I think spamming dicks in local is creepy…

    • mki

      HTFU

  • Random Miner

    I'm O.K. with people treating women nice, and being kind. Problem tho..
    1. The fuck you will know if someone is really a woman? There has to be more women avatars then men, at least I feel there is.
    2. It's a faceless game, full of pubescent boys, and husbands finally enjoying guy talk in the 20minutes a day away from the wife and kids… yes ladies, this is really how we like to talk, we wouldn't talk like it unless we found it hilarious.
    3. They are never really rape jokes, when i think "rape joke" i hear 'haha, that chick got raped, she was dumb for being in that club that night'. I never hear jokes like that, i hear 'haha, i totally raped bob in the ear because of his shit fit catty'. (Side note:quite adding rape to everything guys, be more creative)
    4. Sorry, but I've seen plenty who identify themselves as women joke right along with us, so you know that shit becomes confusing. Only once have I seen someone speak up to say things offended them. I stopped, but you know they left because no one else will (the drunk don't hear complaints)

    I'm O.K. with someone quiting EVE because it's too harsh for their ears, and fine sensibilities. HTFU means exactly what it says when it comes to eve, it's a cruel game, very cruel. Even I have had thoughts in the past of leaving it because of it's very nature, but I HTFU, and keep playing, and losing ships :)

  • http://soundcloud.com/mrt123/avi-russian-speech02 -A- FC

    There are a number of women in -A- some if not most in positions of power, if anyone is stupid enough to take them on god help you.

    Men can be raped as much as women and it is equally as devastating. So why are you assuming it is less offensive to men to have someone crapping up local about it?

    Test and other goon pets are not the only people who play eve don't use their shitting up of local to paint the other 4/5s of eve the same colour:

    For instance -A- don't shit up local, unless its rare a corp event (glorious MVN golden penis moments are a rare event these days). Most russian sections of space just have the odd bit of Cyrillic pop up about your mum.. if you can read it. PL NC. Nulli and many other 0.0 half decent alliances are pretty reserved and tend not to post crap in local. High sec appears to be mostly free of the giant p3n15, miners don't post in local that they raped that roid and wormhole lurkers don't post anything ..ever..

    It is offensive troll posts like this that the worst minority of eve get off on and perpetuates this myth and this is what gets reported in the gaming press as gospel.

    This perception stops a wider cross section of the gaming world playing eve and that playing that 'male dominated difficult elitest dangerous ragenerd shitposter greifer filled game' basicly a game played in a small part by the worst type of gamers in the world.. .
    ..many of which are members of goons and goons pet test.

    This EVE is an open sandbox world where you can find these greifers and shit talkers and make them eat there own shit and enjoy doing it in many innovative ways with some of the nicest most social people you will find on an online game.. most of them outside of goons and pets.

    Remember you don't have to be a goon to play eve.

  • Bap

    Skill yourself.

  • test can suck it

    Bob: So i stopped a rape last night.

    John: How'd you do that Bob?

    Bob: Restraint bro restraint.