EVE University graduate. Drama Llama. Covert operations pilot. Poetic Stanziel has been very active in the blogging community bringing views from seasoned high-sec pilots, we please to share his stories and views on current Eve Online events and invite you to read more stories from his Poetic Discourse blog.

Poetic Discourse: Expansions. Are They Outdated?

The latest video devblog has CCP Unifex explaining that integration between DUST and EVE will happen in baby steps. This is the correct way to integrate changes into a games as complex and diverse as EVE Online and DUST 514. You can’t very well judge the effects of a single new (or iterated upon) mechanic addition if you’re introducing them in bunches of eight (or more) at a time.

Yet, with the current EVE Online expansion cycle, this is exactly what happens. Entire systems are inundated with multiple changes all at once, and the effects of any single change within the system cannot be accurately judged.

This happened when CCP nerfed incursions. This happened when they updated the war declaration mechanics. This happened when they rewrote the faction warfare system. Player behaviour changed remarkably in all three of those systems, and with each of those new systems, multiple changes were implemented all at once. The degree to which any one change altered player behaviour was lost.

Incursions were eventually rolled back to their original state, but that might not have been necessary, were it possible to pinpoint the individual changes that were problematic. Perhaps only a couple of the changes actually required reversion, but it was impossible to tell which individual mechanics those might be.

We face the same problem again this winter, as faction warfare faces another set of major iterations. These eight to ten changes will be introduced in one fell swoop, and once implemented, it will be difficult to tell which of the individual changes had the greatest impact on player behaviour.

Predicting player behaviour is exceptionally difficult. Some people point to SiSi (the EVE Online test server*) as an appropriate testbed. As I pointed out in a previous post, SiSi is unsuitable for testing player behaviour. Players do not make the same time investments on SiSi as they do on Tranquility (the live server.)

Rather than have these specific dates when a mass of changes hit the live servers all at once, why not have expansion cycles. An expansion will run for a specific period of time, and in that time frame, fairly regular updates will occur, as they are ready. The Summer Expansion cycle can run from April to September. The Winter Expansion cycle can run from October to March.

Within a cycle, introduce changes to large systems gradually, see how they affect player behaviour over a time period of a few weeks, before introducing more additions and iterations. These changes can also be iterated on more quickly if they produce undesirable results. Changes might also prove that other planned updates are unnecessary.

Take faction warfare as an example. Perhaps the change of moving the complex structure closer to the warp-in point for the room, that could be made available as soon as it is ready (it seems like an easy enough change to make.) See what sort of effect that has on AFK/PvE plexing behaviour, before introducing any other changes. That change in itself might have enough of an effect on player behaviour that coding new NPC AI could be unnecessary (thus development resources can be spent elsewhere.) New NPC AI will probably still be necessary, but hard to tell unless changes are introduced in isolation from each other.

Isn’t this one of the principles of agile development? Being able to introduce new features quickly and then be able to respond to the results of those changes as quickly?

* Yes, I know we now have a new test server called Buckingham, but that seems temporary for the time being. I will continue to refer to the test server as SiSi, since it’s still what we’re all familiar with.

- Poetic Stanziel

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  • Old runner

    Should probably be noted that the changes were not rolled back completely, and you can see this in the fact that vanguards are almost never run anymore, where as before the system they were run if were way over populated for the amount of vanguards that could be run at any one time.

    To call the nerf heavy-handed would be an understatement, like just about any nerf that CCP does really, it went from very profitable, to not in anyway competitive when it comes to sources of income in highsec, and it for all practical purposes killed the community that was built in the 6-8 months before the nerf, some of those people have returned, some retired from the game, and some choose to not come back, and stuck with wormholes, or moved to faction warfare as it's now the best income in the game, if your apart of the cool kids club.

    Whats funny about Poetic Stanziel commenting on nerfs not needing to be rolled back is, when faction warfare inevitably gets nerfed we'll all read his bitching, and complaining about how CCP always over nerfs anything they touch.

    • http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.com/ Poetic Stanziel

      I don't view the upcoming FW changes as nerfs. They are fixing a broken system. The current level of LP income is ridiculous. I'll, of course, take advantage of it while it exists (it is stupid not too), but I'm not going to cry when I don't have billions of ISK being added to my wallet on a bi-weekly or monthly schedule.

      • Lugalbandak

        Your right , it is broken , its too simple to farm that much isk , ppl need to plex again in pvp ships instead of stabbed fag fast frigates , its not fun anymore

    • DarthNefarius

      Since the Incursion NERF not a single mothership site has been defeated in NULL/LO. The 'rollbacks' did not do a thing there nor has the subsequent cahnges. HI SEC Incursions barely sees 1/4 of the population it once didat its height. Calling it a FIX is like sawing off a non gangreneous limb and telling the one legged soldier he's now healthy

      • Marcus Malice

        Not the first time Poetic Stanziel has wrote a blog about things he knows little to nothing about, and it won't be the last.

  • Old runner

    I would have left that part out had I known you would avoid the point I was actually making.

  • BootyHunter

    Sometimes i wonder if you're playing the same eve we are…

    • Anonymouse

      That is a good question…

      'What version of EvE are you playing?'

      Personally, I'm playing the casual industrialist who dabbles around in highsec tech 2 research and production, nulsec rat farming, and occasional scordite miner. All the while avoiding the rampaging masses of rabid psychopaths you like to call 'PvPers.'

      • o.O

        *woooosh*

  • dexterlofe

    I still don't see the draw to poetic's blog. Is it not mostly garbage?

  • http://gamingmod.blogspot.co.uk/ Versuvius Marii

    So Inferno hasn't been regular updates at all then? I must have missed the V3, and the mining barges, amongst other small regular updates you're calling for.

    Also, I like chalk. But let's call it cheese, as it's what we're familiar with.

    • http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.com/ Poetic Stanziel

      Your parents boost your self-esteem by calling you a genius, right?

      • http://gamingmod.blogspot.co.uk/ Versuvius Marii

        They sure do, just like you call yourself a good blogger B)

      • John Douche

        Do not draw conclusion based just on your own childhood.

    • DarthNefarius

      Actuallty Inferno wasn't a couple of regular updates it was an absolute mess of patches trying to fix the UI which PO'd nearly everyone.
      CCP kept on top of that but they streched themslveds to the MAX probably pushing back other things.

  • Jorge Tuero

    Don't call our current test server SiSi, it will confuse your newer readers, make you look like an outdated and stuborn moron and achieve nothing but continuously require disclaimers.

  • Dave from FA sux cox

    whats the point here?……exactly ???

  • trol is as trol doh

    Your intel is so wrong the germans have won the war.
    To quote "Incursions were eventually rolled back to their original state," no only some vanguard sites eh OTA were changed and the payments were increased by 10%…..

    Please go stand in the corner…

    • DarthNefarius

      You are correct the Vanguards were NOT brought to thier original state. We still make fun of the mathmatically challenged DEVs that gave us the nine-tenths rollback in payouts.

  • Treston Cal

    Pretty certain they are using RAD process. Agile does not even come close to describe the way they work. Time constraints, minimal testing, and leaving the "corner cases" are all part of RAD – corner cases is where we get to exploit. The easy fixes generally get solved, while the hard ones are deemed "nonprofitable".

  • DarthNefarius

    I agree with Poetic in that CCP's monitoring of changes when all is done at once is very difficult to track… but Escalation/Infero was a phased 2 patches over a month sort of as she suggested and Incursions had an immediate DRASTIC decline but CCP couldn't do jack shit because of the Inferno release prep according to CCP Affinity. Then after the Incursion community was fed the line 'we are watching very carefully what is happening' line but it was a delaying tactic .The 'rollback' was an example that they were clueless and didn't test it themselves or listen squat to feedback from those that actually did incursions until the OTA's were finally changed.

    The drone region is still a mess which it'll take then another 2-4 months to make them worthwhile to PvE against with the lack of SEC status boosts & crappy drops currently. I suspect with the summer vactations & Dust release it'll be languishing behind the FW fixes due to lack of manpower.

  • badasskitty

    after seeing the vid with ccp unifex my hopes for a kickass winter-expansion were shattered. Somehow they now roll with the new conservatism taking baby steps as he comments which roughly translates to: we will appease you with some bugfixes and for the rest we dont know shit where to go from here.

    Am I the only one secretly hoping for a headshot on the Dust stuff? They barely can manage keeping eve from becoming a dinosaur let alone influx it with this outdated first person shooter bullshit

    p.s. http://soundcloud.com/mealexg/the-ballad-of-delve
    (shameless plug, hehe)

  • Banton

    This is called Agil development model, I hope they have started using if they do it correctly it can really help.