Comments on: Jester’s Trek: COGS

By: minimee

minimee — Mon, 10 Sep 2012 07:18:45 +0000

clarification. in highsec there is spawn of
alot of Vedspar,
some Condensed Vedspar(+5%)
few Dense Vedspar (+10%)

im proposing in lowsec the spawn consist of
alot of Condensed Vedspar(+5%)
some Dense Vedspar (+10%)
few Core Vedspar (+15%)

and then in nullsec
the spawn should consist of
Alot of Dense vedspar (+10%)
few Core Vedspar (+15%)

do that for all the lowgrade ores and you got a incentative of mining in lowsec

By: minimee

minimee — Mon, 10 Sep 2012 07:14:29 +0000

I think changing production time in lowsec is a good carrot
and i think they should fiddle with the ORE in lowsec also
sure you can get a procurer set up for mining for 15M but how long does it last in lowsec?
can you make more money in lowsec using a procurer then from a retriver in highsec?

a good way to solve that is to make the +5% version ore the standard in lowsec and the +10% the norm and then add a +15% also thats more rare

and while your at it fix the seed in nullsec to +10% norm +15% rare ore and seed in normal Highsec minerals in nullsec also.

By: Opner Dresden

Opner Dresden — Fri, 07 Sep 2012 03:57:00 +0000

Solid rebuff… I'm going to have to seriously consider your well thought out retourt and adjust my opinion.

By: Opner Dresden

Opner Dresden — Fri, 07 Sep 2012 03:56:17 +0000

I've read about those, but from what I can tell it looks more like a design fail CCP will resolve anyway. Logicly, you shouldn't get better than 80% return on materials used (perhaps creating salvage out of the remaining wouldn't be a bad idea, never really made sense that I can make most of the salavage parts whole but can't break them myself to make rigs). And I have a hard time seeing how a 5-15% manufacturing discount HURTS capital ship producers.

If indy players go to low sec, miners will follow… cap builders get direct access to market minerals instead of having to haul them from high sec.

By: IRC Noob

IRC Noob — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 16:59:53 +0000

yeah 'cause alliances don't have industrial infrastructure, here a surprise for you, we import faction ships to piss around with and the odd Tengu. What we really import is T2 mods as theyre really not economical to make out here.

I currently have 300+ drakes and 100+ 'stroms in station that i slowly filter into the market, whilst i can still mass farm XL grav sites industry will always be strong in 0.0

By: Danny_Centauri

Danny_Centauri — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 16:47:54 +0000

Good article, pity it wasn't posted alongside your ideas that you are currently writing about.

By: Ashesofempires

Ashesofempires — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 15:05:48 +0000

Jester's essentially right. Any increase in production cost is going to be passed on to the end consumer. So long as the cost of high-sec production is less than the risk (real or perceived) of losing some of your production volume to piracy, industrialists are not going to set foot in low-sec.

An increase in low-sec production capability tied to faction warfare (not necessarily more slots, but perhaps a manufacturing speed increase) would be cool. A base increase in the number of slots may be warranted at some point (I'm not up to speed on whether or not low-sec production slots are actually 100% utilized like those in high).

One cool thing CCP could do would be warfare donations, where industrialists could provide ships, ammo, or modules to a militia, and militia members could buy it with LP rather than isk, and every player manufactured item bought with LP would lower the production cost or production time of an industrialist's low-sec build queues.

By: pew pew

pew pew — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 13:00:51 +0000

well if you put it like that then maybe it's nothing to worry about :-/

By: jay

jay — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 12:49:25 +0000

CCP has the right idea but fails to put the carrot on the stick before it tries to lead pilots to lowsec. You first need to offer the pilot something in lowsec thats above the risk vs reward factors. Since pirates own most lowsec systems and I can make more money farming belts in providence than I can in lowsec the risk vs reward is just not there. Even if you do raise prices on highsec services, they will just pass the prices onto the consumer!!!!

The problem CCP faces is, How do I make a good game and still retain my subscriptions, until CCP puts EVE first and not their wallets, New Eden will never be the place we want it to be.

By: Sync Vir

Sync Vir — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 10:42:34 +0000

They wont move. Null sec won't suddenly become good space because they nerf high sec. It's still full of retards and changing high sec wont change that.

All that will happen is, more cost to build, double that cost onto the sell price. Why move to space that's shit, when they can just increase the price they sell stuff for?

If they reduced the number of station slots for building however, that would force people to move building into a pos, or losec station.

By: Random Guy

Random Guy — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 10:41:47 +0000

Honeslty, increasing manufacturing costs in highsec is kinda okey, that will move out some ISK from the game, there's alreay too much is floating around. Also, some people who are willing to utilize lowsec, will get some more profit,for their more efforts. Risk VS Reward, right?

By: Azule

Azule — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 07:40:31 +0000

You have a much higher cost of goods sold in low sec mostly because of the expenses of replacing ships and modules. Figure even when you are careful and know what you are doing, that you will lose at least one ship every other month. That adds anywhere from 30m to 500m depending on your setup and how stupid you felt that day. So just to break even you need to increase your profit margins to cover those losses, and currently there is no way to effectively do that. I mean the ores are a little better, but not much, the costs are the same from the stations.

So how can you change that. You can improve the ore in low sec, making it more profitable to mine there, you can change the manufacturing and research costs to make it more attractive to produce things out there, keeping in mind the fact that you have to cover the higher expenses and the transportation costs to move your product back to high. Or you can make it safer.

I don't have the answers, that much i admit. But simply looking at the numbers tells me the reason that no one is in low sec is because you can make as much or more money elsewhere. The have cut income repeatedly other places but they cannot make more profitable to be in low sec instead of other places.

By: Hykke

Hykke — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 07:01:00 +0000

Quote: "Just give a solid materials discount for low sec".
This is not possible, currently you can refine and get back almost all minerals used in production, if you were able to build just 5% cheaper, then you would be able to refine and get back MORE than you used in production. For this to work, you would then have to cut all refining returns, which would then be a huge nerf to all capital ship producers using mineral compression. All in all I think such a change would be a huge re-design for the entire production cycle, rather than the small rebalancing that might be enough to solve the problem …. wait what exactly was the problem again?

By: Jinglez

Jinglez — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 06:16:32 +0000

you are wrong .

By: Anonymouse

Anonymouse — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 05:35:51 +0000

So trade one comfort zone for another? How is that working for you?

How pvp pilots can just throw ship after ship on the bonfire all day, every day, is beyond me… Eventually someone's going to send someone a bill for all of that twisted metal, and it won't be pretty….