Eve News24′s resident analyst and market guru takes on the low-sec dilema.
First and foremost I would like to say this article takes a break from my usual industry perspective of EVE and takes a look at something else I have been involved in for many years, lowsec warfare. Whilst this article is purely hypothetical and I don’t claim I can build a better system than CCP, if one thing is clear is the density of players in lowsec leaves something to be desired.
Revitalising Low-Sec, the Lost Systems
Before Faction Warfare lowsec was a barren place, with a few people running static complexes and a lot more people looking to kill said people. Pirate groups were king and preyed upon everyone from complex farmers, to new players wondering out the safety of highsec and the occasional freighter pilot who failed at setting their autopilot settings.
Whilst Faction Warfare gave lowsec a kick up the ass and renewed the player bases interest in lowsec it didn’t go very far in making lowsec useful in the grand scheme of things, it has remained without purpose and with FW limited to certain areas of lowsec there are still vast areas of space are void of players. To resolve this two things need to change in lowsec:
- Players need to be given greater influence over its control, and be rewarded for said control.
- Something needs to be done with the rest of lowsec so that it’s not a barren wasteland.
Whilst CCP have moved towards iterations instead of features I feel that part of EVE is still missing in these barren areas of lowsec that warrant a feature. As such I propose ‘Faction Warfare Escalation’, whilst the factions have been hard at work fighting each other the pirates have been preparing in secret. In a single swift move the pirates strike and take control of the remaining lowsec systems in a single coordinated strike.
With vast stretches of lowsec effectively controlled by pirates and the factions resources stretched due to the ongoing faction war the factions call out for help once again from capsuleers. With capsuleers ready to retaliate on the behalf of the empires the pirate factions call upon all pirate capsuleers to defend their newly captured space.
Pirate corporations would be able to enlist themselves to fight on behalf of the pirate factions, with a single heavy penalty zero access to empire space. A penalty which most pirates already suffered the fate of a long time ago. Upon enlisting to the pirate factions pirates would be awarded LP for killing non-pirate capsuleers, as well as opening up a mission system for additional LP.
Anti pirate players on the other hand would be offered rewards for fighting against the pirates, and taking space back on behalf of the empires. Anti pirates wouldn’t have to commit by enlisting but be more casual with anyone able to dive in as and when they please. This offers a middle ground to enlisting which comes with the restriction of not being able to fly in the opposing factions space rewards would be slightly lower but with easier access. This would also be another opportunity for poor standing players to recover their faction standings which they ruined grinding level 4 missions.
These pirate FW rewards would be similar to the pirate faction rewards in 0.0 but with increased risk, due to higher player density. This would warrant the reward being the same as the 0.0 space and would strongly encourage previously dead areas of space to thrive.
All of these actions somehow still do not seem enough now onto addressing my initial point, being rewarded for the control of lowsec space. The major problem at the moment is not the ISK rewards and potential cash in lowsec for individual members, but the fact that there exists no way for corporations and alliances to utilise this high individual member income for a greater cause. What I propose is that lowsec facilitates the growth of new alliances and their member corporations by providing a sustainable income at an alliance level.
So what would this involve:
- Make it very hard for 0.0 alliances to control lowsec moon resources. Low sec alliances should benefit from the control of their own space if this means reducing POS HP outside of your controlled space to 10% then so be it. The 0.0 alliances should not be able to control the growth of lowsec alliances; otherwise EVE slowly stagnates with no one growing to take on those with the current control.
- Make it easier for lowsec alliances to maintain control of their space, this ultimately means one thing cyno jammers. Preventing hot drops by larger alliances ultimately allows growing room and shifts the balance of control into the defenders hands.
- Provide big bonus’s to industry in lowsec (and nullsec) for controlling the territory. Stations should have 100 manufacturing slots at their most upgraded level and should offer a 5% reduction in T1 mineral requirements and 2.5% reduction in T2 material requirements for construction alongside production time reductions. Whilst this is quite radical it allows lowsec alliances to grow in power with the correct organisation.
- Make lowsec asteroid belts viable to mine with a T3 sniper mining ship, hey even make it covert ops. This would allow ninja mining with a decent yield, a slight buff to the ores in lowsec would also be appreciated. I would go for the belts consisting primarily of the +5% and +10% yield ores instead standard ore.
- Allow corporations to tax their members effectively. Right now the tax system is flawed for FW alliances as you cannot automatically tax LP income. The base FW corps should tax LP 15% to encourage movement into player corps with their own tax rates. Tax income could be used to fund early stages of a ship reimbursement scheme and investment in POS assets to create a reaction and moon mining network.
Without massive changes to the fundamental mechanics lowsec shall remain dead for a long time to come, and in time without viable growth opportunities for small alliances nullsec shall stagnate also with power house alliances dominating the political landscape. For many alliances their death is being kicked out of nullsec with nowhere to regroup effectively.
So what do you think, should CCP turn lowsec into the stepping stone for the vast gap between highsec and nullsec, or should it be left alone with EVE accepting that lowsec shall never flourish?
- Danny Centauri
+1 for stepping stone, tho that whole mining stuff… meh… T3 would/should not b needed….
I like the idea. I was in an anti pirate corp and the only thing that made us that was that we didn't shoot industrials. I would make it more fun to have an increased reward for fighting pirates. Also more incentive for people to go looking for trouble in low sec so pirates can kill them. should keep pirates happy if they have more targets.
this is good stuff.
Nice to see something beyond the "Force 'em out of HiSec" and "Gimmie more targetsssss NOW" suggestions you usually find.
No to cloaky ninja mining ships but the rest has potential especially creating an opportunity for Alliances to grow without being stamped on or coerced by the stagnant masters of Null.
Yeah wasn't sure about the ninja mining stuff, the only other option is remove belts and add more mining sites. Right now asteroid belts in lowsec are completely pointless which is a shame as right now mining doesn't have a higher risk alternative thats actually worth while in lowsec.
"Right now asteroid belts in lowsec are completely pointless…"
No again. Belts are my staple place to find many 1v1 / v small gang fights in low-sec. Many low-sec dwellers go ratting to improve their sec status whilst out roaming and looking for trouble. Contrary to the urban myth that you appear to subscribe to, not all low-sec dwellers are pirates with -10 sec status. In fact I'd hazard a guess at less than 50% are even red.
I really get the feeling you have no idea what low-sec is currently all about.
I believe he's talking about belts as a place to mine afaik….
If he'd left out "completely", I wouldn't have replied. My point is, they are not "completely pointless" and currently do serve a purpose. I admit it's a bit silly that the purpose isn't mining!
I guess none of you have never done a proper organized mining op
The "Force 'em out of HiSec" matra is rather tedious… almost as bad as the AFK miner that cries that the HULK needs a bigger cargo hold now after the MAC/retrievers got a nice buff
I think the Pirate faction warfare is a cool idea, and prob not hard for CCP to impliment.
-now on to the rest. I like that people are thinking of ways to increase the utility of low sec. I would like to mine in low sec if there was a way for my corp to "control" things, but…. the ability for a corp to upgrade a system with things like better stations and cyno jammers would just cause null sec alliances to swoop down apon them and take it all.
The main reason for this is logistics.. They will not allow some small corp/alliance to dictate to them whether or not they can transport goods back and forth. Best case would if this went through that those small corps would either allow pass through or be destroyed. Just my 2 cents.
I travel alot due to our wormhole having a static exit to null. I like to use lowsec when possible because of the ease of movement.
I've found lowsec to be more populated then null but with the same problems for travelers/adventurers, except of course the bubbles. The problem of established pvpers with experience hunting down pilots means about all you'll get new is cloakers running the high isk sites.
The pvpers are even going after poco's in thier desperation to find someone to kill. Imo changing rewards, adding incentives and raising isk income won't change the population of lowsec, a corp still needs an effective plan to live in lowsec and casual use by pilots means they stand a better then even chance of losing more isk then they can make.
As far as i can tell lowsec is working like CCP wants it to , you organize and make it there or you go in unorganized and die – it's nullsec lite.
Allthough your idea's about the moon rescources and null alliances projecting power into low have merits the only effect countermeasure is thier own number of pilots. Do they have time to control thier own space and lowsec ?
"Do they have time to control thier own space and lowsec ?"
If you're thinking of POSes then YES!
leave lowsec alone u asshats
Sounds very similar to the ideas that my scrum team at Veto Sumercamp presented. Check out the on demand videos at EveRadio and look at the Summercamp video at about 6 hr 5 minutes in.
Fact is all the organized people are already in null, low, WH of FW….to get more people out of Highsec you need to give casuals and solos a way to survive AND make MORE Isk in low as in Highsec.
As long as casuals and solos have absolute no reason or way (besides exploring) to establish a base in low sec without being permanently vulnerable should a organized group decide to show up, Low sec will stay barren.
I only see the problem but can't see a solution…..there are solo/casuals out there who do not like being in big alliances and these players will stay in Highsec because low or null has nothing to offer them besides getting camped or raped by "elite" pvplers
Stop trying to make Low-Sec into some gimped version of null-sec! Us Pirates left Null 'cause we hate null and it's politics and structure grinding. We want a NEW system that makes low sec fun by itself, not some crap that turns it into Diet Null-Sec.
Amen. Low Sec is fine. We don't want shit that will bring giant blob fights into low sec. As is low sec is active in some places and not active in others . . . this is just like 0.0. I like low sec and I'm sure so do many other people . . . Stop trying to fix something when you obviously don't live there . . . or you're some indy douche that would do better to become the backbone of some 0.0 alliance or remain in high sec.
The one thing I think is missing is the ability for alliances and corporations to progress. The only new people you see in nullsec are either merges of cascaded alliance corporations or renters. Ultimately there needs to be something in place to prevent nullsec stagnating and get fresh blood in there once they have built up the necessary resources IMO.
Only problem with moving people to nullsec is that there is no combating the blueblobs of SOLAR, -A-, and Goonwarm. Without joining them in the form of being a pet or renter.
If CCP wants people to leave highsec for nullsec, and to prevent 0.0 stagnation, they need to make moving into sov 0.0 POSSIBLE, without joining the blueblobs.
If CCP wants to make people leave highsec for lowsec, and make it more profitable, they need to make it possible the players to make money without paranoia of every person who comes into the system. (Reactions are out of reach for most players and, as moongoo, are a top down isk system)
I moved a small corp of 15 ppl to Curse. Worked fine. There are many more NPC 0.0 and even Provi to move to.
If you expect to get a constellation in Deklein first thing you are wrong. Unless you are willing to suck some ofc.
To ME, lowsec is pretty crap, buy yeah, I choose not to live there so who am I to complain. It could have been done more fun I guess but is lowsec suppost to be FUN ?
Wormhole is fun, good practice since you get paranoid and could be a stepping stone into npc 0.0 or sov.
I TRULY BELIEVE, there is space in eve for everyone. The whiners just dont want to work for theirs. Ask yourself, "Why do we really want to get 0.0 sov?". Ive seen alot of corps with leadership that´s so horny for a system and/or station they will do anything to get one. So ask yourself that question and make a 1 year plan for your corp. Then DO it.
Put something other than fuckin' jaspet and the other shitty ores out there, or give those shit ignored ores a buff. That'll certainly get the carebears to consider taking the risk if there's actually stuff out there to get that's worth their time, as opposed to mining an excess in high and then selling that excess to buy the high-ends. Not so good that the nullbears move in, but better than what's currently in a 0.5 for sure. Considerably better.
Indeed. The most valuable ore by volume/isk available in lowsec/hisec (2nd most valuable anywhere) is found in 1.0 high-sec systems. You can actually get banned for ganking or can baiting in 1.0 noob systems. This is pretty strange reward/risk distribution.
Bullshit. NPC 0.0 areas like curse , stain and the great wildlands are home to many unafilliated with the blob factions. Addionally, many move from 0.0 to low when they get burned out from alliance political crap.
The OP is also overlaying his carebear mentality on pirates in low. Most give no fucks for LP – they profit from loot, ransoms and generally look for small gang fights. Actually, the money can be pretty good.
That said, what would be interesting would be Privateers aligned with a faction. Caldari privateer would have good sec status in Caldari/Amarr space as long as the pirating was done in enemy faction territory and friendly FW were not attacked. But in Minnie/ Gal space you're a neg 10. I spent a year in Rancer and loved it although it was a pain moving about so you ended up living on a lowsec island.
Your looking at is as if all alliances/ corporations in lowsec need to progress to 0.0 at some point.
Ive been to 0.0, I dont like blob's etc, me and my corp live in lowsec because it is how we play the game, as it stands we do not want/plan/need to move to nullsec at any point to increase our enjoyment of the game.
Lowsec/nullsec do need a buff in relation to highsec, so we agree on some points.
Do you understand that current low sec groups are not just dreaming of null? If people want to prep for sov they have npc null to live in.
NPC null isn't sheltered in any way from normal life of null. I appreciate that some people do not want to progress to null but that doesn't mean there shouldn't be a valid mechanic in order to do so.
Personally I dislike null due to the long travel times and prefer lowsec so will most likely remain there as its much easier to find instant PvP.
SO IMO by eliminating SC`s from Low thats 1+ for you.
By making Low-Sec get 3-5x more Faction Drops than what is currently in Null Sec, 30 jumps away from most humans where there is mostly Bots.
And Making Gate Guns inert by making/Paying Standard PVP`ers to act as the law like old school US marshalls paid by the NPC Corp that owns it, And making Pirates not shot by guns or lose Sec Stats but add bounties like rat bounties on there Heads where you can only kill them, in Low/Null or only the same regio nwhere they did the bad acts etc IMO would all be fair.
This would make Caps a mighty force again and at the Cost of a Pirate BS its well worth it not worrying about a 15 man SC Fleet who Pops you in 30 Secs.
It would give alot more Ratters reason to ratt there instead of Nullsec and Pirates way more targets, lastly a whole new position as "Sheriff" of the district. Maybe the Sheriff could even be elected by players whose Corps were based out of Low-Sec or some other better criteria.
Also Pirates could ratt and make ISK selling the Faction/Pirate BPC`s they would get.
Have anyone here really tried missioning in a populated lowsec like Black Rise….Its crazy and you are ready to warp at any second or your dead in a second.
As a Low-Sec guy what you thin kabout those changes?
no Cynojammers sorry but they can't add cyno jammers to lowsec system without handling nullsec inability to be self sufficent. once they have iterated on POS and we see its good i have no quarrel with Cynos in lowsec.
but realy do you think a gimped version of a cynojammer is going to help in lowsec for an alliance willing to drop supercaps. its not they can just drop a full subcap fleet incap the cynojammer and the game is on.
I like some of the core ideas like pirate factions with more missions in lowsec as i said before don't gimp highsec instead fix lowsec.
here is my sugestions. call it invasions give every faction in game atleast one fleet
make it like Incursions the 4 main (Amarr,Galente,Caldari,Mimatar) fight in the FW area and adding 2-4 "incursion system" every week thoes system will not be claimable by normal means but from partisipating in the "incursion fight" the weaker entity get two the stronger get 4 if you don't claim your system it will automaticly switch side to the oppforce. mening that for FW there is a "Consequenses" and that you have to fly somthing else then a speed tanked friggate without guns.
and make the pirate factions fight over the other lowsec areas with the local empire.
Cyno jammers are already coming according to FW changes! I think it could act as a detterant and makes things more difficult, but yeah ultimately any 0.0 alliance wanting to pwn anyone has it within their capabilities to do so.
I, for one, would not mind low-sec cyno jammers. However, you have to look at it from the 0.0 person's point of view. It basically wrecks any sort of logistics chain involving jump freighters or carriers. If the rest of low-sec allowed cyno jammers, 0.0 dwellers would have to keep a relatively large force along their supply lines to incap them constantly, which is pretty much impractical. That, or actually control the systems they use to jump, which just turns low-sec into more 0.0 space…
Incursions FTW \o/ <3
"Players need to be given greater influence over its control, and be rewarded for said control."
No, no NO!
Low-sec is currently the only place in the game that's half decent for solo pvp flying. High-sec, pah. null sec, blob blob blob. Low-sec = small camps (if any) and soloers. Anything that makes large alliances want to move into low-sec / create a low-sec branch is a massive no from me. Am I really the only eve player these days who prefers to fly solo and not blob in huge fleets?
One they they seriously need to do is fix the damn sec status gain/loss mechanic…
Couldn't agree with this more, you lose way too much sec status for fights and it takes to long to bring it back. This may be a bad idea but I am interested what people think, I would also like to see gate guns weakened or removed because when you are running around low sec with 1-2 people and theres someone on a gate I want to fight them but with so few ships the advatange is in their favor if we are both flying similar ships without logi. I know people will say "just go to null" or whatever but going to null just ends up with people bridging around you, hotdropping you, etc. Again I'm interested in opinions I could see several problems with that and it would make gatecamps more effective but I wonder how it would do besides that.
Yes, just go to null. Plenty of NPC 0.0 space. Sec status loss in low sec is a feature unique to the space. I agree there should also be unique benefits. Also, you can get hot dropped and blobbed in low sec just as well as in 0.0.
Sounds like you need a drink from the HTFU fountain. Guzzle up or fill the tear bucket with your sorrows
word!
1 hour of fun = 1 day of grinding…
I do not agree. Killing people willy nilly in low-sec is illegal. Outlaws shouldn't be able to walk into Rens or Jita in a slow ship say hey bros…..I'm a notorious outlaw from low-sec here to buy shit at Rens Walmart, and Concord/Faction Police be like…"Oh hey mate, let me give you a guided tour of the system."
There should be definite and hard consequences of being a fucking pirate in low sec. You shouldn't be able to kill dozens of poor mission runners all day and then kill a couple BS rats and get all the advantages of civilized society back.
Harden up and get a hisec hauler alt mate.
no, i prefer solo and i think most people do, solo and small gngs are what people like to do the most BUT if u are smart and want to win u join the blobs regrettably thats always going to be the case just like humans will always produce rubbish and fuck up the planet while they know they are and noone can do shit about it, thats the way the universe works… regrettably..
Most people do not prefer solo. Thats a ridiculous statement. Most people are afraid of solo, most people don't have the skill to be successful in solo even a small fraction of a fraction of the time. Solo is an honorable way of war, and I'm fondly horrible at it. I prefer small gang stuff myself. Statement is ridiculous. You need to increase the sphere of people you know in the game.
Your right, an imitation sov system in low-sec is bad. It's hard to argue though that the risk/reward distribution for low-sec is optimal, or that the ease to which the hardware funded by 0.0 sov can be used so whimsically in low-sec.
I can tell you really are not from low sec by the simple fact that you think it's utterly dead. I have lived in low sec for the better part of 3 years. I admit there are regions that can be very dead and other regions that are very lively it really depends on what time zone you play in and what region. Also really null sec is the same way, for example you go to russian space in UStz it will be pretty dead. I have done 90 jump roams in null sec and found 0 targets some days and other days I have found many targets. Same goes with low sec, some days I don't find any fights and others I find a ton , it all boils down to when you roam and where.
Now on to what you are suggesting. I kinda like the core idea you have presented, I have been part of a group who has done some very organized pvp off and on in low sec. When the customs offices came out it gave us a way of getting great fights and really kicked organized fleet combat in low sec into high gear imo. I think something like this could give a more focused effort to organized pirate corps/alliances. Though I wonder how many would actually be interested in doing it, I know basically all pirate corps cringe at the thought of anything to do with pve or structure grinding. A true pirate is only out to profit off there kills while semi pirate/pvp'ers are just out to shoot ships and have fun. So while the idea sounds interesting I have a feeling it would die before ever being fully realized.
Fake edit with side thoughts:
Maybe if it was set that only -5 standing players and below could join the pirate faction and if you removed that silly mining idea (really no self respecting pirate would ever get caught mining seriously……).
Lowsec areas that have FW are pretty good, and I like having the pirates around. Then you go out to Airidia and its just dead other than a couple of systems with pirates and the ocassional plexer. Right now I'm enjoying faction warfare lowsec on he gallente side, plenty of squids to shoot!
Thats a good point on PvPers hating the grind (especially structures -_-) and could be its ultimately downfall, I would love to see a system more geared towards rewarding for killing everything. Back in the day piracy was rewarding when cap recharger II's were over 10mil a pop these days loot is barely enough to get by.
As for the mining idea yeah I can take that on the chin, didn't honestly expect pirates to mine just any carebear looking for something worth more than the highsec boredom of mining.
Pretty much this. You can always find a fight in FW space if you really want, but the outer low-sec regions (like Derelik, Aridia, Kor-Azor, and Khanid) are pretty dead most of the time. But as for the whole (still not worth it) thing, As long as it's relatively easy to control and defend, I see a lot of people coming into low-sec to control space. Granted, You'd have to make it so that any one entity can only control so much space (no more than a constellation?), otherwise the null-sec dwellers would muscle in.
shut up the observer you know nothing
How do you limit that? Same problem as in the article. If a null alliance wanted to control low sec, they would just create as many corps and alliances as needed to control however many systems they want to get around the silly rules.
No.
xoxoxo
Have my baby
Did I not mention I already did? by the way you owe me 3 years of child support fucker!!!
You have a baby with automatic American citizenship. You should pay me.
Why would I subject this poor child to that awful American stuff. He will already get the very best in Canadian medicine and the very best in Education. =)))))
"Make lowsec asteroid belts viable to mine with a T3 sniper mining ship, hey even make it covert ops. This would allow ninja mining with a decent yield, a slight buff to the ores in lowsec would also be appreciated."
No self respecting pirate would ever agree to this. Not only no, but HELL NO.
HOLY SHIT!!! cyno jammers in low-sec.. This will be the next best thing for Goons/test, because they will just create a alt low-sec alliance jamming all jumpable low-sec systems.. "hurray-win-jammers" as their enemies can't resupply from hi-sec anymore
According tto the plans the cyno jammers are timed so someone would have to spam them to keep them online all the time
so creating a mini-profession below the dreaded POS-fueler of pre-fuel-block-days ?
^^ at a cost of of 3.6b per day per system… I dont think so.
So, what you're saying is it will cost less than a mothership to jam the other side's favorite, second favorite and third favorite resupply route, leaving us only one route to lurk at ?
Mining in lowsec is pointless. Highsec ores are actually more valuable most of the time nowadays. But the more general problem with putting in alliance level rewards for "control" of lowsec is that it just going to encourage the largest nullsec entities to overwhelm lowsec for control of the logistical highways. Currently Lowsec offers an opportunity for individuals, small corps and alliances to engage in ratting, plexing, and T2 production primarily because there aren't easy ways to lock small operators out of the system.
The belts are completely useless to miners for the most part (Although I occasionally hear whispered tales about lo ice fields being 'protected'
True still his idea has a certain value but it would require a lot work from ccp to be usefull.
so from what i read here what you propose is
create a league of pirates and
- reward them for their playing style
- blobalize them with null sec tactics for keeping space and shit
- make them sheeps that will be fighting for the "big heads"
- make them go after the profit and not the fun after all
and what i say as a pirate is that low sec must not become 0.0 neither come closer to 0.0 gamestyle. what must change is the empire. To make low sec more crowded you do not need more pirates in it nor pirate alliances and nap fests. You need to make empire guys get into low sec. There are various ways to do that BUT that is something that will NOT happen. And it will not because the average empire players are not willing to risk their ships and if CCP force them to, they will most likely quit. EvE is already a cruel game for the noobs, they can not push it more.
So your whole post is wrong because you are focusing in the alliance and the blob that an alliance creates and not the players. You have a good plan for supporting low sec alliances but, pirates, generally, are solo – small scale pvpers and do not want to orbit the anchoring pilot, click ctrl, target the broadcast and shoot. They wanna flight, they wanna get the heartbeat, they want a challenge. The only place that can provide these, is the low sec. So low-sec is almost fine.
I dont think lowsec require things that allow for more control. It requires somethings unique to it that would make it different than null. I kinda like the pirate invasions things but it should not be static. More like moving incrusions that would control no more like 1 system at a time. Those systems would have agents giving missions to players in exchange for acess to their unique LP stores. The penalty would be that those missions would be always vs empire factions and completing them would cause SS hits.
To this add some special sites that can be found only in lowsec. For example smuggler sites that have mercenary faction spawns and drop items that can be traded for faction standings or isk.
I'd rather see some crazy sh!t happen in highsec. How about a pirate capital that can jump into highsec and disrupt concord response time for a period of time before concord forces back to lowsec.
Pirate Incursions then?
Players need to be given greater influence over its control, and be rewarded for said control.
This ^
is where I stopped reading.
Go to nullsec for control son.
Control in nullsec is impossible for medium sized entities unless they are willing to suck the dick of some bigger alliance and become part of the blob, or pay a lot of rent.
Lowsec if used correctly as a stepping stone would allow corporations to grow to the point where they can then ultimately move into 0.0, progression should exist in all game mechanics.
I agree with that–I'm in TEST now and i have been moving from alliance to alliance that got kicked out over and over there is no way to regroup/rebuild…unless we do forfeit our control of our alliance to more power 0.0 alliances = "PETS/RENTERS"- MY GOD a place to regroup and rebuild would have saved alot of allainces whom been kicked out of 0.0
they should figure out a way to give pirates recognition over a area not through npc but as alliance or corp example bellow tr system name put a line for dominat force being X that will stimulate pvp because all pirate groups do is look for recognition not territory except when it comes to towers for isk……it can be monitored by who has a better killboard within the system giving them public recognition
I down voted you because you are a FA grunt.
This is not a bad idea. Could easily be based on whatever groups have the most kills in a particular system, with a high threshold that has to be passed. (so that systems where only one dude gets killed each day aren't getting influence recognition)
You might also be able to add a slight financial factor as well. Lets say a pirate group has influence control over Amamake. All the low-sec agents in that system pay a 1-3% protection fee to the corp that has influence. That can either being a purely NPC derrived tax, or a tax that can be set by the influence holder to whatever level they want and ends up coming from the mission runner. I like the poop available in this sandbox feature because it can actually affect the volume of activity in the region through mismanagement. Corps that roam alot in a particular area could maintain influence and keep low protection taxes compared to other areas and this can in affect lead to increased regional activity and increased protection fees. (just like lowering taxes IRL causes revenue increase over time) Pirates that want to keep activity in a particular low-sec pocket empty of anyone but themselves could hike protection taxes to 100%. (not saying this would be a worthwhile endeavor)
There is also alot of RP that could be available in this feature, even if just for back story.
Whatever changes to lowsec, might hypothetically occur (lol), they should all be basically ignorable if you choose. That's the great thing about low sec is that you can run around only worry about other ships and gate guns. That is really the essence of low-sec. You shouldn't have to worry about whether you can dock in a station or not, worry about who has sov, worry about whether there is a cyno jammer that prevents your JF from resupplying your shit, worry about whether some pirate sov tax change will mean you have to move to Black Rise. (FW excluded)
Damn these ideas are dumb. Low sec should not be a iteration of null. Screw the control and politics etc.
Plus implementing all those changes would take CCP too long for shit all gain.
The low sec problems are gate guns and sec status drops. Right now hunting in low sec is a career choice rather than a fun PVP space. Lower the penalties, do something with the guns to make smaller ships more viable, and watch the parties take place as pilots flock there for some casual PVPVPVPVPV
TBH there shouldnt be concord in Low-Sec but having a player base concord in it would be cool, similiar to small town militia`s.
What I was thinking was
A. Make players who do bad things [Kill Nuets etc] get NPC bounties on there head like Rats get but, the catch is only let them collect it in Low-Null Sec so essentially it would be lucrative to be a real pirate hunter.
B. Like I said before the top of Dek or Tenal or Branch are 30+ Jumps out of LowSec meaning a Player who isnt based there has to go through 30 potentially hostile systems when in reality they can kill just as many Bears in Pureblind 8 jumps out from Hsec. This means IMO The far reaching systems need lower bounties on rats and lower drop rates and the systems butted up to Lo-Sec need the highest bounties for PVE players, get those bears closer to Hi-Sec and in unsafe areas.
Lastly Low-Sec [since it is basically pirate NPC owned space] needs to drop 3-5x the Pirate BS BPC`s and the Huge ALli`s with space that no one see`s except to Bot in needs to be 1/5th of what its at now getting better and better the closer you get to Low-Sec/High traffic areas.
C. Also we need some sort of Bi Yearly count of gate activity to award the highest areas of Lowsec like blackrise HUUUUUUGGGGEEE amounts of BPC drop chances. Make these super highways of Haulers, JF`s etc that lead to Alli JB systems lure tons of pirates there who can rat in there spare time and have it worth losing a Ninja Loki or Proti every now and then.
Lastly make JB`s not connect to 00 Sec Space so these major ALli`s have to run freight through these longer avenues. It is way to easy for some alli`s to move stuff. Groups like CFC who have 45k+ Blues and all use the same networks from Low all the way sometimes 8-10 jumps into 00 sec should not be possible, that risk reward is just screwed.
Most dangerous places in Eve by far is 00 NPC space because you can bubble and its lawless, and then Low-Sec for the same reasons minus the bubbles, in both these Areas you can never "Rat in Peace" like you could in Branch, Tenal, Dek etc, Sorry im leaving ou Stain and other further areas, but im just more familiar with the North right now.
Low-sec as a stepping stone for 0.0 is the problem. Eve is not a game of linear progression, where each player starts in High-sec and work towards getting into 0.0. High-sec and 0.0 are opposed view points. Instead of trying to make Low-Sec a better stepping stone, ccp should be enforcing the gap between High-Sec and 0.0 by limiting interactions between the two. This would force interactions to occur in Low-Sec, creating a reason for both high-sec and 0.0 to use Low-Sec space.
that mining suggestion is complete bullshit. otherwise it's cool and a good idea. needs some refinement tho
The only thing, which sucks in Low Sec are the gate guns. These are way too strong. A -10 pirate has to tank gate guns, can not use drones, remote rep gives aggression and standing penalty. You can not use bubbles, so you need a tanky insta-lock ship or Smartbombs. That kills a lot of possible pvp.
I do also FW – well, as pirate. It can be real fun, fighting in the plexes. I do not like, that most of the FW players fly real garbage ships. FW is ok for noobs, but vets want to fight in bigger ships sometimes – and then the usual FW noob just run or not undock.
Too bad that was no security level space that didnt deal with sec hits, gate guns, has bubbles, etc. And yet has no blobs or politics etc.
Why do to people consider NPC 0.0 the same as sov? Its just lowsec with bubbles and no sentries.
EDIT: I realize the first paragraph can also be referring to WH space.
I described what is all different to 0.0 and makes it harder. These are all restrictions, which you have to find an ansewer to in your ship setup. Ppl from high sec or 0.0 often do not understand this and whine about, how unfair low sec pirates are. But if you do it yourself, you learn it is not easy. I know many 0.0 buddies, who avoid Low sec, because htey fear gate gun aggro and all the disadvantages. The big advantage of low sec is: It is not so overpopulated. Even a small gangs in bigger ships survive pretty long. I was resently in Curse again. It was dead most of the day. It is far away from Jita and in the evening, even the not so blobby smaller alliances of non sov 0.0 roam around in 20-30 man gangs.
I can live without bubbles, but overall I can camp with 2 Chars in Low Sec, but even with 3-4 guys, it is not easy in Low Sec as -10. And you end up -10 pretty soon, if you engage everything or sometimes, if you just remote rep a -10 over longer time.
"I can camp with 2 Chars in 0.0, but even with 3-4 guys, it is not easy in Low Sec as -10"
Stupid to use non-garbage ships, because YOU are waiting for them. Better uses for their money than your killboard.
Why not make pirate npc "areas" where npc pirate agents can give missions similar to npc 0.0 in low sec?
Make it like lvl 5's and give LP rewards in more areas for the various players in low with the same LP stores like in npc 0.0 just make the LP rewards lower so NPC 0.0 missions still viable as a option.
Could make the agent a random scan able ship or something to help against mission campers and provide more areas for reward for pirates, and players alike……why goto stain when you can spend a little more time missioning and get a nightmare BPC in lowsec?
So parts should be rewarded for the bad ways. LOL if you want lowsec to become less of a barren wasteland as you describe it. Than you have to get rid of the pirates or provide ways to rid them. THEY ARE THE PROBLEM!!!
Noob!
pirates wont go away, because they are often ppl like me, who do not like the big 0.0 blocks and how they make you just a f1drone or renter. Non Sov 0.0 is often still dominated by pretty big alliances. NCdot in Venal. Stain has Stain empire, in Curse you ahve Darkside and Initiative, the Delve non-Sov 0.0 is too small. Syndicate has CFC in it in parts or had Rooks and Kings. Outer Ring is really dead and only a few stations.
Low sec is so attractive for pirates, becasue it has many travellers and only few big gangs.
The point is not to make low-sec less barren for the sake of doing so, the point is to increase the amount of combat activity taking place in low-sec. Increased care bearing and increased intentional combat searching are both part of that, and both are fed by higher rewards for PvE in lowsec.
i think you have a really good idea, it's definately viable. Although in terms of a different side of fw, i dunno. It would be awesome to fight for pirates as well with their own lp stores but I dont want all of low sec to be potentially fw. I would like more corporate/alliance interaction with low sec though. The ability to have sov in low sec, benefits of which could be the usual pros of station services, but also all sentry guns are friendly to controlling entities, all supers should be banned from lowsec as well, dreads and carriers allowed ofcourse. It would be a middle ground from high sec to null sec sov but in a different path to fw which would give players more options.
Every year it is the same, boring whine about empty low-sec by some idiots.
Idiotic low-sec players shoot every single ship, including miners and traders, but they also expect them to populated the markets… They buy their ships in Jita, because it is cheaper, but expect low-sec to be swarming with life and so they can shoot some more… And if it had market hubs in low-sec with only a fraction of the life of Jita would they be sitting outside the stations and be shooting every ship trying to get in or out.
Low-sec *needs* to be empty!! It needs to be empty, because nowhere else than in emptiness will these players learn that one can in fact shoot players out of space.
Nobody will care for these whines, because nobody cares for idiots. Those who are smarter either stay out of it, because they are too weak or they live in 0.0, because the space is better and the game is more fun.
TL;DR: Low-sec is working as intended, idiots need to learn.
And stop asking for features like a reduction in mineral costs!! Players would produce tons of stuff at 95% mineral cost and then reprocess them at 100% and thereby would create billions worth of minerals each day only by sitting in a station! You have no clue what you are asking for…
the fuck are you talking about
Well, what happens when you produce something and get a 5% reduction in material costs? … You produce your items with only 95% of the required materials! Now, what happens when you reprocess these items at 100%? … You will get 100% of the minerals back! And what do you get when you put 95% in and get 100% back? … You will get 5% of minerals out of thin air.
Just to be sure will I give you a number example… Imagine an item uses 1000 Tritanium at 100% and, further, you have a BP with a perfect ME level and also 1000 Tritanium in your hangar. You now install your job and get your 5% reduction in material costs, which means only 950 Tritanium are being used and 50 Tritanium are staying in your hangar. After 5 minutes does your job complete and you reprocess the new item instantly, and with perfect skills, which means you will get 100% or 1000 Tritanium back. So now you have 1050 Tritanium in your hangar – 50 Tritanium more than you had 5 minutes ago… Players will be using all manufacturing queues of all their alts for this, especially because it means they can produce almost any material out of thin air and without ever leaving the station!
It has a got a good reason why one cannot reduce the material costs of a BP below 100% in EVE. Everyone who does not understand why it *needs* 100% to build something or anything, but suggests to use only 95%, cannot be helped.
Needless to say that such suggestions creep up every week together with tons of other dumb ideas, like populating low-sec.
Honestly, I am still waiting for someone to suggest to populated wormholes or the fast-lane of motorways…
You forget that this can be avoided as BPOs can have 'additional components' which are not receovered when reprocessed. I believe this was already done with the T1 barge changes to prevent mass creation of minerals from no where.
It is possible, you just don't like the idea of change. Resistance to change is normal, its part of human nature, the players who are proposing changes are doing the right thing by preventing EVE stagnating in the long term.
My ideas are far from perfect, but its only through opening discussion on these things that better ideas will arise and CCP will begin to listen.
I have an idea for you: shut up.
Never :p I remember the same whining when FW was introduced 'ruining lowsec' I was a pirate at the time and we got our asses kicked by blobs for a while, until we adapted and moved away from the RR BS blobs to smaller ships killing what we could by dragging targets away from their fleets.
Surprised to see so many l337 pvpers whining about introducing mechanics that are likely to drive new targets their direction.
Give it a try just for, you know, … a change. If you had a clue about PvP, just a little, then you'd know that you hunt for targets. CCP will not ever drive them to you! But, please, go on and troll in the comment section to your own article…
So *you're* the moron who's been wrecking the global economy with fuckwit ideas…
John Douche. Your implying that people rarely take risks for increased rewards. Your also stating that you believe that a fairly large number of systems in Eve should be devoid of combat or carebearing…thats a rather poor use of server space.
There is a level of reward to risk that can increase the amount of space combat occurring in low-sec without throwing 0.0 and highsec out of whack. The trick is finding that happy blow-shit up middle ground. There is already a disproportionately high amount of combat that occurs relative to population in low-sec according to CCP Fanfest released statistics which disproves your theory.
I would prefer to err on the side of increasing rewards in low-sec, as opposed to keeping them the same or increasing them in hisec…because of the lack of risk that exists in hisec.
I agree, Null Sec bitter vets need a place where they can come to die! Y'know like the wasteland from Judge Dredd!
Why is there any assumption that we want to join NPC factions and that this will improve our lives? While cute for those that want it, why the assumption that pirates want to join anyone but themselves?
I can bar myself from high sec in one kill atm. I dont need a game mechanic that will cost me weeks of PVE grinding for each faction should I decide to do something new. Enough FW warfare people have to deal with the effects of their standing hits as is.
::clicks Sugar Kyle::
::double clicks Titus::
How about this : Leave low as is and make it even easier to pvp there. Make gate guns easily destructible in the 0.1 – 0.3 systems by 2 battleships in under 5 minutes ( They'll have some hp but will deactivate at structure and slowly heal, during which period they cannot be damaged ). Make npc faction army fleets roam in their low sec space, trying to shoot down -5.0 pirates and aggressors at gates instead of just gate guns.
should just make the sec status floating between 0.5 and 0.0, depending on number of npc/pirate kills vs people killed by pirates in the system. if none happen – it would gradually go back to the original status.
can even include hisec and null in it. i.e only 1.0/0.9 systems stay true high sec, the popular gank spots will quickly turn into low sec.
will also make logistics more exciting as the safe routes will change with time
umm, you guys been in low sec before right?
6. Also adding tracking into Gate Gun considerations would increase the amount of frigate and cruiser action occurring in non-FW space by like….<insert random large number>. Frigate and cruiser action in low-sec as it stands tends to be quite consensual in the sense that engaging under gate guns is often suicidal (if your not Alex Medvedov) and warping to a belt for noble space combat with other frigates and cruisers is very optional. (obviously there are exceptions to this, and people that know what they are doing and make things less optional)
By making gate guns suffer tracking penalties vs ships with high-transversal and taking MWD/AB into affect, small ship combat could occur on the gates with the similar considerations to what battle cruisers make when engaging under gate guns (add 350 real dps to the other side's DPS, can I still win or get away?) without nerfing gate guns for larger ships.
7. Also….wasn't CCP going to fix neutral logi repping and instant logi disengagement via gate jump?
So much win in this post!!!