The Nosy Gamer mentioned one easily overlooked quote from the Q/A thread CCP Ytterbium posted last Friday on the EVE-O forums.
Reading Between the Lines: High Sec Nerf.
Q: one of the reasons for low-security space being crap remains that high-security stations are too good in the first place, do you have plans to adjust this?
A: Indeed we do. This topic brought quite an internal discussion, and while this most likely won’t be part of a Factional Warfare iteration, we do want to have a look at reducing high-security stations effectiveness to make other areas of space more interesting. Some examples could be reducing refining rates, increasing ISK payment to install jobs. Nothing is set in stone as this is not planned for the immediate future however. Another good idea we noticed here was to tie high-security tax with the war performance of its related Factional Warfare Militia. So if, by example, the Caldari Militia are losing the war in Factional Warfare, all taxes in Caldari State high-security space could go up to support the war effort.
This is one provocative tease which – if implemented – would not only make Factional Warfare more relevant and rewarding for current participants, but also would become an integral part of high-sec life as the outcome of the FW campaigns would yield long lasting effects on the life of every high-sec dueller – and maybe – spark the interest of otherwise uninterested players.
Who knows, this could be the start of of something bigger and factional warfare leaders like BolsterBomb and co. could find themselves as the hailed heroes of hordes empire residents.
Anyhow, the ball is in CCP Ytterbium and he seems to be listening to advice on which side of the court should he serve to. (I think I been watching too much Tennis.)
Discussion: Why Stop There?
There are far many other “penalties” and “rewards” which could be implemented based on the aftermath of Factional Warfare; wavering of PVE rewards, the hosting of exclusive live event, LP store hikes/fire sales, office rental prices or sheer trade hub expenses.
Which reward / penalties system do you feel should be implemented to make Factional Warfare a “high sec” wide enterprise?
- R
Dude any nerf will just be lost subscriptions, punishing your paying players doesnt work, they just go where their playstyle isnt forced. Just like real life people dont pay real money to NOT have fun….
Take a leaf out of freakonimiics…..people only move to things that are better…..its incenves that work, not deincentives.
They made it so hard conducting anything pve in lo sec outside of cloaking exploration in their attempts to get pvp fights for the loudest whiners saying it wasnt fair whaawhaaa we cant scan cloakys , we cant scan players in sites…..
Now if belts in low sce required scanning, and ships in belts where hidden, doing sites had u hidden again then they would get players back in lo sec. If you couldnt find them you can still note the corp if u pvp and war dec them… Then catch them anywhere.
Incentives work….not destroying what the playerbase is happy doing. Good luck to ccp if they walk this path…..
You are stupid.
If Highsec is better than Lowsec in 9 out of 10 ways why go to Lowsec. Well Lowsec is where CCP wants you to go. Why is Highsec so much better than other areas, that does not make sense.
If you quit because Highsec gets nerfed, good riddance, the game does not need you "gimme gimme" risk adverse self.
Faction Warfare you idiot, you have a blue militia!
Eve is supposed to be Dynamic, difficult and full of explosions, if you can not do 2 of those 3, get out.
EVE is not here to cater to you. Highsec should not be as good as it is.
But apparently you think it's here to cater to you.
I love these idiots that say "My way is the ONLY way or GTFO"
what an asshole.
Yeah, it should continue to cater to us! ! ! We want the safest space in the game, and we want to be able to make more isk then the places in space that are not as safe…. is that really too much to ask? /sarcastic
Gonna take a wild guess here and assume your IQ's lower than your shoe size, and you have no idea why a change like this makes sense.
The reason high sec is more populated is because there are a awful lot of of people of people out there who want to enjoy the social/team-play aspect of EVE and have limited interested in PVP. The whole concept of pushing people from high sec to low sec by penalizing their primary area of interest is walking down a path of skewed logic IMO.
as a long term 0.0 resident I have noticed that other null residents tend to view low sec area as a transitional zone for PVP beginners and null sec dropouts and any nerf to high sec space is only going to crush the subscriber base rather than achieve the intended effect of promoting PVP.
Nobody is forcing anyone out of highsec, it's just not as profitable, as if you were to take more risks, and live in low, or null, thats the way it should be. Have you ever heard of risk versus reward? it's a concept CCP, and many other game dev.'s out their have been selling in their games for years.
Yes. +1
This blog post is in response to CCP Ytterbium's Q/A session on eve-o forums. " which IMO which mainly deals with changes to Faction Warfare." where the very first point of the topic clearly states the possibility of nerfing high security stations I.e – increasing taxes on refining and install jobs,
Think about it for a second, you are not going to hurt veteran mission runners and industrialists who have refining 5, refining efficiency 5 and other assorted refining skills to 5. a modest 5-10% increase in refining tax or build slot cost is a drop in the bucket for veterans, while a rookie struggling to move from his meta 3/4 fit drake to a battleship hull would be cut at his knees.
If we're going to talk risk vs. reward then highsec should be the most profitable space in the game. You're surrounded by unknown people with unknown intentions pretty much 23.5/7 there, many of whom are on the lookout for rich people to griefdec for no other purpose than 'fun and profit' or even more simply 'tears' Even if you do find an empty system, there's generally a reason it's empty… 2 belts, no station, and a dead end system with 2000 yahoos on the way to whatever market hub serves the area….
If they want people to go to nulsec, they should start you off in nulsec… the most risk averse space i've ever seen. Miles and miles of nobody, intel channels for up to three regions away, and scouts at the chokepoints…
Not to mention that if anyone really threatens your space, you switch teams and keep your stuff. Or you just evac to another region your alliance owns.
This is not a pvp game, it's a sandbox. If I want the challenge of trying to avoid all forms of pvp, let me try and do it. Don't look down on me for not wanting to spill another player's guts into space, it's just not my thing. I'll gladly tell you they are there on intel, maybe even fly around cloaked looking for them and what they're doing. I might even anchor a bubble for you. But don't expect me to put a gun to their heads and pull the trigger.
Lol, Ill hold him down, grab his arms and let you stab him, but dont give me the knife
Spoken like a true Politician
you sir should run for CSM
I didn't intend it that way, and I did not inhale.
I wouldn't be able to represent pvp'ers, so I could not in good conscience run for the Csm. I also don't like the idea of going to Iceland and being around all these other csms who seem to think getting drunk is the main reason to go.
On the other hand, if any of them want to ask my opinion of something, my mailbox is always open, just as I'm sure a lot of them are….
They might be selling it but they sure ain't implimenting it
get rid of low sec completely.. just have high sec and null sec (though still npc owned)
thats actually a simple and Good idea
Add concord on a really long delay, and let people put up towers and have capitals? What could possibly go wrong?
their point is that High Sec is allready pretty shit for ISkies and i agree
incursions that were supposed to fix that just don't, noot for noobs anyway
everything seems to be done to keep the old bitter vets happy not the noobs and then we see articles how eve doesn't have enough players because its too hard for noobs… and all ccp does to address that is they come up with ways to teach the noobs how to become a bitter 0.0 vet, but half of those noobs don't want that, they want to roleplay, and though its not me… i understand that CCP should do more to let and help new players play their way.
-1
"awful lot of of people of people out there who want to enjoy the social/team-play aspect of EVE and have limited interested in PVP."
OK ! I agree there a lot of them, yes.
"penalizing their primary area of interest " ????
How exactly, making the high sec less profitable, will penalize the " social/team-play aspect of EVE" ?
If they don't want to PVP, why they need isk then?
to buy new clothes for their avatar, new rare mods to brag about, and whatever else they want man, who says isk is only to burn up during engagements?
i mean, it i for me, but i can see the carebear's point and I am with them on this one, let them play the game their way and build all the ships for us, i hope there is more of them so ships and mods are cheaper i realy do
"as a long term 0.0 resident I have noticed that other null residents tend to view low sec area as a transitional zone for PVP beginners and null sec dropouts and any nerf to high sec space is only going to crush the subscriber base rather than achieve the intended effect of promoting PVP."
I play eve for almost 3 years now.
I have moved to 0.0 right after I activated my 1st account….
0.0 is where I like to play.
Low sec frightens me! Big bad Pirates everywhere.
I FAIL to see your point… about the pvp and all that.
They could move to the space of the winning side. (Currently Minmatar and Caldari)
Or move to lowsec.
You're wrong dude. People like challenges and the more challenging a game the more interesting. If you've noticed all the games out there that cater to their players every need usually only retain those players for a few months before they grow bored of the easy riding lifestyle. Players seem to think they want the easy ride but in truth they don't.
You are mistaken sir! There are people all across the spectrum. There are those that are absolutely risk averse, some are that are moderate risk takers and those that are high risk takers. Lumping everyone one in the same box will get you in deep trouble. Also consumer buyer behaviour is unpredictable, assuming all subscribers will love it or the reverse is untrue.
Shades of grey! Its all shades of grey!
ermm… no
Well, you've seen what happened when CCP took nerfbat to Incursions.
Sure, you could say that those who don't want more challenge in industry and trade should leave the game, but then you'll be the one who pays 500mil for Maelstrom.
No one builds factories in war zones.
If theres enough profit they will
You mean all those pretty player owned statons and pos in warzone nullsec that produce everything from rifters to avatars?
cdn1.eveonline.com/community/QEN/QEN_Q4-20…
Page 36, figure 16.
And yeah, we all know how many CSAAs there are in NPC 0.0 and lowsec.
eve is very challenging, and i like it. however, there's a reason why it has such a small player base compared to others. And if it becomes more challenging… an even smaller player base
"and ships in belts where hidden"
Oh so we can belt camp and welp the miners and ratters I like this.
Oppertunities everywhere…
So why Nerfing profits in the High sec is a bad thing.
People will pay for playing there game and have fun.
I dont see anything wrong
Because making money in hi-sec is comparatively pretty damn hard, when you contrast it versus Tec-moon-squating, blobbing, nullsec alliances with thousands of players and battleship reimbursement programs. The mining sucks, the NPC rats suck, PI sucks, exploration is a joke, missions are a grind and not great money even at the top, and incursions take massive capital to even start. CCP already goes out of their way to try to force players into low or null sec space via big economic disadvantages; supposedly lower risk=lower reward….but some of these nullsec alliances control such large areas, you could go weeks back there without seeing anything but blue. That's risk? I don't think so…
Eve is already "hard" enough that accomplishing anything meaningful is practically a second job. "Nerf hi-sec more..? Fuck you. Is that succinct enough?"
You obviously have never lived in 0.0.
Get out.
i lived in 0.0 since i could fly an omen and i agree with him though unless i rat or do anomalies with fighter drones assigned to me or (which ppl frown upon) do then in carrier
the income still isn't good enough to pay for enough pvp to be worth all that insanely boring pve, let alone high sec mining with can thievs and just… you know poor loow end ore… where it still takes ages to get perfect skills to even break even when try to build stuff…
the fact is that even in null you have to spend waaaay too much time doing the boring stuff which just isn't worth the questionable fun that you might or might not (due to lag or bad luck) have with the isk you grinded for.
THIS SHOULLD BE ADDRESSED AND CHANGED FIRST AND NOW
Id love to resub and keep resubbing coz i like the idea of EVE but as it is… i can rly just play it for few months a year when i have absolutely nothing else to do and loads of time to spare.
the above mentioned is the main reason this game doesn't flourish, perhaps they want to keep it this way so ppl resub with real money but instead they could have more players playing it… hmmm… i guess then there would be more lag in big node crashing bloob fests… i dunno… just saying isk making in 0.0 is a pain, I dunno why anyone would live in high sec unless he enjoys the grind and hates pvp or can't fly a battle cruiser yet o/
P.S. linking fw with regions economy is a good idea in principle, mby ccp should outsource it's implementations so its done well
Isk is everywhere. I can make billions in highsec in various ways, or I can go out to nulsec and make billions in other ways. Yet I'm surrounded by people who spend their money as fast as they make it and complain about being poor all the time. In the end, it's all about what you do with what you have.
Just because it's boring to you doesn't mean it's boring to everyone else. Some folks love missions, mining, and getting that faction spawn in an anomaly everyone else has skipped because it's 'not worth it.'
This is a game of making your own opportunities, not having it handed to you on a silver plate…. Didn't you read that line in the tutorial?
good damage control
and your name is CCP what? 
look i know that this is the idea and this is what u r trying to sell with an addition of a pure bullshit 'isk lies everywhere' reinforced by some of the articles on this site.
The real world works in the same way, the Club (the illuminati of whatever else your favourite conspiracy theory calls it) u give people hope, make them work hard with eager attitude fueled by handpicked success stories…
but the bottom line is that the world will never be a peaceful clean place without poverty, it could be, but its just not good business for the guys in charge, same with EVE when it comes to isk making opportunities etc and isk vs fun and other things.
and in response to "its meant to be a hard game'
I could live with – "you get paid only if you play really well"
but i can hardly live with – "you get paid only if u manage to NOT fall asleep between one hp belt changing color and another"
if it must be an intelectual game fine, let pvp stay as it is for now, but at least make pvp or/and mining a sort of thing when you have to keep doing something to get a better or worse result, add an FPS kind of feature where you get to point the guns with the guns at the target which can give u up to say 5% damage per volley, make the % low enough so a smart player with good fitting and tactics can win even if he sux at mouse pointing, just please don't make me want to die while i wait for the damn rat hp belts to change color
sounds to me like you need to leave high sec then
No one is forcing you to go to lowsec or null sec, they are just taking your easy button away.
Consequences for high and low scores:
High scores – lowered taxes. Better LP prizes. Achievements, medals. Lessened production tax. Extra NPC ships to secure gates of new conquests.
Low scores – you're losing. Emergency mode! Higher taxes, with a kill bonus on enemy ships paid from these taxes. NOT enough that it can be farmed, but an extra incentive and helps pay for ships. Extra NPC ships closing off entrance to remaining areas.
It could potentialy work soo if you wining you get less LP but prizes are also lower. If you are losing you get more LP but prices are higer. Like up to 10% reduction in store prices and LP gain. Up to 10% increase in store prices 5% increase in LP for losing side.
Doing either of these just creates a situation where people wait for the pendulum swings and can be gamed by larger forces…
FW characters need prizes and rewards. Campaigns prizes and achievements – designate new campaigns, say one per season or six months. Give them names – the entire campaign name will be chosen by the winning side (vetted by CCP, of course "Battle of Gallente getting it in the ass" being less than appropriate)
After a while, a character has a long list of fought campaigns.
Extra defence tax to go through the gate to contested areas – FW excluded.
IFF activated special modules – only work if pilot is on FW?
Make it special and unique. Right now its all disadvantages; make it worthwhile to take on the burden.
I thought "Battle of Gallente getting in the ass" was the name of the ship balancing team until 2011 or so.
Making higher taxes for whoever is losing makes sense in real life, however in game im afraid it would cause people to flock to caldari, just so they could have cheap high sec, and always win. Safety in numbers/blobs. While minmatar and gallente die and have to pay high taxes and people leave their space for more profitable high sec.
Minmatar is winning… you mean Amarr and Gallente?
actually more likely people would flock to amarrian FW, Amarr is the biggest empire by miles, lots and lots of HS, better for the hs bears there not dumb, they will throw there support behind the space.
Highsec bears would have to work to win, they would just got to minmatar
Make the rewards for the winning factions lower so there is more reward in fighting the good fightn
Concord just needs to take some more doughnut breaks again.
'low sec isnt good enough, so lets make high sec even shittier so that low sec is ''better'''
greeaatttt plan
The risk versus reward in high sec is retarded, highsec needs a lot more then just industry and manufacturing nerf, but it's a good start.
Yeah because the risk/reward is totally working fine as is?
They should prolly ban PVP from Empire, yeah, and maybe allow supercap production in 0.5 systems? While were at it why not have all empire moons minable and made out of lovely tech? Risk/reward FIXED. Amiright?
Brilliant! Nerf high-sec! Nothing bad could possibly happen when you hammer 70% of the players, right CCP?
70% of alts…
Oh look, another idiot with made up numbers….:o
87% of all statistics are made up, even mine!
well I say 93% of all statistics are made up. Let's make political parties and fight about it.
There is a very easy solution on how to make high-sec players stay: stop showing news reports and instead start showing porn on the video boards of each gate. Show soft porn in high-sec and hardcore porn for low-sec/0.0. EVE is a hard, cold place and it just makes sense. Nobody will quit and every last player will want to get into low-sec/0.0.
Hisec should start to slowly become lowesc and make it able to be taken by other militias…. Yes I know I do want Jita to fall into mimmitar hands… Im just a big fan of duct tape
"Hisec should start to slowly become lowesc"
Suddenly, Titans on Jita undock.
0.0 got nerfed to many times and nobody from empire pubies said anything. Now, feel the pain of CCP Nerf!!! :p
Kidding,
Well, generally i like idea of Empire being a shittiest place, but most secure. would also be fun to see security status of system dropping bellow 0.5 is militia is losing ground in surrounding area.
"Well, generally i like idea of Empire being a shittiest place, but most secure. would also be fun to see security status of system dropping bellow 0.5 is militia is losing ground in surrounding area. "
I like both points
it's a good idea, majority of low sec is really just a barren wasteland. Can't own it, control it or tinker with it in any way. This idea is better then no idea. And as for all the people bitching how people will leave, you'll just have to bot harder to handle higher taxes and lower efficeincy rates
or grow some balls and use low sec more.
Keep titans and supercarriers out of lowsec. Watch the population climb.
No one wants their sandcastle one shot in the middle of the night, so no one puts them up (towers) unless they got friends… lots of friends…
I think that anything with a cyno should be banned from low sec
Carriers and dreads can be balanced and countered in many ways. But there's very few tower fits out there that can tank a supercarrier with full bombers out, or a titan at 200+ km grinding through the modules… and Ecm doesn't even work on them so it's either full dps tower (deathstar) or try to put on so many hardeners that no one will try with less than a few for fear of getting caught trying to solo it…
yeah thats a good idea i like it
Players should be attracted to the lowsec because of the FW, but it looks like CCP is more keen to shovel it up player's throats instead. Yeah… that'll end well.
Players shouldn't be attracted to lowsec presently. Nothing for them there.
Proof being, they AREN'T.
Their just ball park ideas. Your not been shoveled anything.
Nobody seems to think that if this is implemented, then most likely if for instance the amarr are winning the war, all highsec dwellers, will just move into amarr space, making minmatar space empty and deserted.
This goes for whatever way the war is going obviously.
I don't think CCP gets it. but lets dissect there ideas. and what consequenses they will have.
* Lower the refinement yield in highsec, will not move players to lowsec since the risk reward is to low. if they go realy realy low (less then 50%) then pos refining will start to happen. so its not going to do more then spike the mineral cost.
* Raise the isk payment for installing jobs in highsec. Will not move production to lowsec. reason installment fee is less then 0.25% of the isk invested in T2 production do you think it will affect anything its to little to make a diference. more then for T1 production …..
* Tie taxes to how well Faction warefare is going will mess upp the game realy realy bad. what happens when a big nullsec entity get boored and decided to hit say Caldari space and make all super hub Jita realy suffer. and it have a big risk of ppl moving to where the tax rate is lower.
* Raise number of Research/Production slots in lowsec will this give a bonus to the FactionWarfare? i think not. it only makes alot of bad assumptions like we have the system at level4 and i put in a big que for the "extra slots" then the system get pushed down to a level2 what happens? and another thing. Who in there right mind build in Lowsec? as you have to import the minerals and the import with 6x freighters isn't worth the risk/reward. and losing one freighter will cut your profits.
* lowering the Installment cost in lowsec, will not matter mutch the % of the total cost of a T2 job like Hobgoblin II its only 0.25% of the total value. — neglectable
*raising the Refinement % in lowsec, will not make mutch diference due to the risk/reward ratio beeing so low. risking several Freighers going in to Lowsec is not adviseable and losing a single freighter filled with minerals is taking away all the profits from it.
My return question if now lowsec sucks, why make highsec even worse?
*instead make lowsec a place where you want to go.
*lowsec should be where players meat for pvp in small gangs or solo.
*remove learning implants and give every new player 5 frigates in the last tutorial and send them to lowsec for a trial by fire. and it might learn more players how fun pvp is.
New players need to learn that every ships your flying is already dead (as soon as you accept that you fly better)
OK firstly you sound like your one of the people who pray on new players that have no idea in Highsec by grieving them or by trying to hold them to ransom of some sort. Also the spelling of MUCH is like that not Mutch
Sending NEW players into a situation where they are sure to not only be killed but be very frustrated isn't a very good idea I would think.
EVE has very HARSH penalties for being killed & kicking new players in the guts even if they are flying new FREE ships is going to very possibly hurt the numbers of people who are taking the game up & moving on to subscribed accounts.
CCP will end up screwing this up like they have done to 99% of the things they TRY to re-balance
yeah messing with npc entities that much could cause alot of ugly effect. no problem with nerfing highsec but pls keep the npc entities out of it. let the noobs have something to do as they learn eve. u know eve is not an easy game to learn and pushing your noobs too much will cause…well u know what dont u?!
I've actually quit the game because everyone I know is in low-sec making billions in frigates in low-sec.
lol havnt seen that reason for quitting eve , will ad it to rage quit list.
ps
you know you can make billions too he? in low sec.
So………lets punish high sec players because others want them to play there version of what a sandbox is? CCP just dosen't get it, a player should decide when he's ready for null, not whining bitches in null space. Nerfing high sec is not an answer, it will just add to more players leaving. CCP, use your fuckin brains for once instead of a hat rack.
" to play there version of what a sandbox is"
And what is your version of sandbox friend?
Udock – kill rats – dock ….
If that's all he has time for, why not? He's still adding to the overall game by being logged in and doing something.
Not everyone can do 23.5/7 cta's friend…
I think that Empire should be nerfed in comparison to Null/Low. Ever since the anom nerfs and the introduction of Incursions the Risk/Reward Ratio has been totally screwed.
Do you think it right that someone who has to deal with bubbles, blobs and hotdrops in their daily EvE life should get less isk/hour over someone who can happily AP 30 jumps without getting gangbanged?
Now all thats happening is Null players use an Empire money maker. They've been used for years but its practically required now, especially if you live in shitty space.
The Risk/Reward needs a serious fix @ grunt level
FW does not interest me for the single reason that you lose standings and then can't safely access parts of empire space. Otherwise I'd be interested. But now CCP wants to force some effects of FW on me even if I don't play it? WTF?
Thats what i call Carebear!
Spot On!
Good guy
If you want to trade in High-sec its better not to have the NPC's shoot you. if you join FW for Caldari, the Gallente and Minmatar dont like you anymore. Now you cant trade there, thats not what you want if you need more tradehubs then 1 or 2.
Do you buy/sell anything on the market? Your subject to market PVP!
Every done any non consensual PVP? Someones forced effects on someone else there…
Other peoples actions effect you every time you log on however you play. Deal with it
eh i don't know about this. i know lots of people live in high sec because they like the safety and enjoying does things kind of carebear things. So nothing too drastic should happen to them, i would say slowly change things. but i do like having the tax rate be linked to fw performance. But i think buffing up low sec is a better idea then nerfing empire. Maybe have like a small area of empire that goes out into low sec, or like a few systems in low sec that is high sec so people can set up a market there. Where the supplies are is where people will be.
To make High Sec dudes go to Low – Null.
There is only one rule.
High-Sec profit should, not be enoght to buy a plex for next month.
Fix the LP stores! The incursions were good begining, but should not be possible to make alot of isk with that LP in Hi….
CCP problem is, and yours too, they will simply not buy that plex, instead they will move to next game that is more suitable to their preferred game stile. So all CCP will get form is fall in subscriptions. Also you will lose benefits of high sec industry and trade, that will damage all players across the broad.
There is a reason there are no trade hubs in low sec or 0.0, and why there is little industry beyond high sec. This is same reason there is no developed market and industry in Somalia, Afghanistan or in any other lawless region. For capitalism, and with it industry, to develop you have to have foundation of law and order. There is no such thing in low sec and it is in limited supply in 0.0 space where it is present only in deepest parts of biggest alliances witch are still small compared to size of high sec. And some of those alliances don't care about industry to begin with, as was demonstrated by recent miten's interview with Jade of Lost in Eve podcast. Destroying foundation of this low and order in high sec will do nothing to improve industry in other regions, it will only destroy industry in high sec.
"there is little industry beyond high sec."
Man… what game do you play ? I think you have misstaken the game. We are talking about
EveOnline here…
1. Where do you think your tengu was build?
2. Where do you think, your Machariel comes form?
3. How many resurces a titan takes?
….
There is so many things out of High SEC
With exception of Titans those are built in high sec, and again with exception of titans they are traded in hig sec too. IIRC blueprints for Macs come form 0.0 and parts for Tengu come from wormholes and 0.0, but they are mostly manufactured and traded in high sec. So 0.0 has a role in manufacturing to the existent that some components cannot be acquired elsewhere or manufacturing itself cannot be done out of 0.0 space or sov space, But you will note those items are exorbitantly expensive exactly because part of their manufacturing process is done out of high sec with normal economic consequence of smaller supply and bigger price. Afghanistan is worlds biggest producer of heroin which is exceptionally expensive, but you would not call it industrial powerhouse. Industrial powerhouses are societies that have high volume of commodity productions that are traded at affordable prices, not other way around.
I disagree. Super (Supers, Titans, Carriers, Dreads, Rorqs aren't empire produced) production are the indy powerhouses. Whose going to have more effect a group of dudes who build Supers or some dude building T2 HAMs?
The problem is convenience, the one stop shop of Jita is A) Too easy and B) Too safe.
Cyno's killed null sec indy not danger.
Capitals may be built outside of high-sec, but their components are frequently built in high-sec and shipped to low. Even if all of the components of a capital are built outside of high-sec, the minerals sourced for that ship were probably bought in Jita. Why? It's probably cheaper, definitely more convenient, and the volume of minerals traded is sufficiently high to meet demand.
Fixing low-sec is a pipe dream. From an economic standpoint, low-sec is like building a factory in Afghanistan. You can do it, but the cost of running it is higher than doing it elsewhere, and along the way there is great potential for ruinous loss.
Even if CCP were to nerf high sec, it wouldn't drive people into low-sec. People will weigh the potential profits vs the amount of risks they are wiling to take, and decide to seek their fortunes elsewhere. It will drive up the cost of ships and modules, and we will all suffer.
What needs to happen is that Null sec industry needs to be buffed, such that null sec alliances are encouraged to be as self-sufficient as possible, and their members don't have to come to high-sec trade hubs unless they need something the alliance can't provide.
For example, an entity like Goonswarm relies primarily on drakes, scimitars, maelstroms for their fleets, along with dictors and what not. They should be able to satisfy 95% of their production needs without having to build anything in highsec or shop for ore in Jita. The only things they should feel obligated to buy in high sec are T2 ships that aren't super popular, or non-doctrine ships that individual members feel like flying.
Unfortunately that's only really possible by running a ridiculous amount of moons, which would strain even the best organized industrial wing of any alliance or coalition.
High running costs are irrelevant if the profit margin is proportionatley higher. Null indy used to exist far more than today (quite a few years to be fair) the problem is
that cheap high sec products can be shipped anywhere from Jita cheap and safe.
The volume of trade in Jita means that your in for a quick sell, so more people come
to trade so competition builds which drives prices down and more buyers in. Its a circular thing. This means that the competition in Jita is far more than anywhere else, generally.
You simply CANNOT compete with high sec indy as buying mins for manu and then selling the goods is so cheap.
So you buy everything in Jita then cyno to your destination and resell. If that was supply line was cut then Null production would rise again or at least fights in null/low would increase as duders tried to get cloaky haulers through.
Obviously this is slightly off topic as its far more null based rather than low
Tengus are built in hi-sec. Machariels are built in hi-sec. The low-end minerals to Titans come from hi-sec. What's your point, other than showing your ignorance?
1. tengu was built in high sec from bits looted by ratters in wormspace
2. macharial was built in high sec from a bpc sold by a ratter after getting it from one of the angel plexes
3. titans are often built from the mins that drop from hauler spawns and mins that come from refinery taxes and from mining bots
a) Tengus are built in high sec after the sleeper salvaged is processed in empire high/low sec due to proximity to trade hubs.
b) mach BPCs are mostly farmed from null sec 10/10 rated sites, but then again they are built in empire due to same reason as Tengus.
c)most of the low end minerals for titans are purchased through lost cost buy orders in high sec trade and mission Hubs and are again compressed in high sec before they are shipped off to 0.0.
When did CCP become Blizzard? Was after they fired most of the people working EVE do to an overhead decrease?
When people realize that the greatest 'threat' to their security is other players, then they also realize that highsec is the worst place to be. Then they end up in that place that bittervet talks about
The really really paranoid ones end up in wormholes…
Riverini, you sound (read) more than a little drunk in that article. Proofread it before posting, maybe?
They need to do something, as it is now Lo-Sec is basically a highway to 0.0 Sec with 1 or 2 pirates per system.
IDK the solution maybe taking out SC`s from Low is a good Idea and make it Capital city kinda like how a C5 WH works. Then it would be a spot where Caps are king and it would be an area where smaller more PVP elite ALli`s can Take Moons without worrying abot SC Fleets. Yes they can still get blobbed but Most smaller PVP ALli`s I know have the majority of players who are cap toons vs a Test or other 00 sec Alli who takes newbs in often.
Also make it alot more lucrative…IMO I would have Ratts in Lowsec drop Pirate or Faction BPC`s 3-5x as much as 00 sec. The way 00 sec is made up the further out you go the better the 00Sec rating but also with most major Alli`s like Dekco etc its also safest way out there. For instance look at top of Dek or Where conviction holds Sov, that is the most safe ratting Areas there is for Guristas Drops etc, when in reality running Plexs in lowsec is 100x more dangerous, and this is coming from a 7 Year Eve Vet who has lived everywhere but mostly 00 sec.
Im sorry but Misson running PVE wise 00 sec is alot more safe if you own Sov, Intel CHannels and local being able to see any red/Nuet who comes in instantly and the best Plex`s ever….Its not fair.
Something needs to be done and making Mach BPC`s/Nightmare BPC`s fall like Rain in Lowsec vs Null is the best way to do it, that way 00 Sec would still be safest Area to ratt and worth alot more than Lvl 4 missions and the best way to make steady money where as Low Secwould have a "Gold Rush" type economy where you might get ganked 1 week in your 1 bil isk Ship then get 2 Pirate BPC`s and make it right the next.
You mean the great social and team work effort to make nullsec actually safe enough to live in?
Yes lets remove that and have highsec everywhere so that people have the OPTION to form a group, or just solo everything.
Great Plan.
living in nullsec for 1 year now, and there are only more rules and regulations NOT more Teamwork….when I look back in my corp the most teamwork we had in WH and in Highsec Wardecs. Yeah we have been one of these small corps to stupid/stubborn fighting wardec griefers…..Nullsec is relaxing compared to that.
And WH really make you paranoid
Reading through the comments two things bugged me.
First was highsec had more social interaction.
Second was highsec had more team work.
Im sorry, but are intel channels, hundreds and thousand man fleets, massive industry, and massive politiking of low/null sec really somehow beaten out by the mining op of 10 guys in high sec.
Or the solo highsec man with 10 accounts.
Or the solo highsec ratter.
Or the solo highsec scanner.
Or the solo highsec trader.
Or the solo highsec nobody. Because why should he work with anyone.
OK so they do a HUGE NERF to highsec space, what happens to those people who are not able to throw up their own POS or survive in Low or 0.0 space due to being a small corp or a solo player?
I agree something needs to happen but I am not so sure that the ideas in the article are the way to go as it does nothing to help solo or small players/corps which would mean those people would either be forced to live an unsustainable life in highsec or they would do what many are still doing & would move on to a better MMO.
IF it only applied to faction warfare then I would guess we would then start to see a case of the winning sides getting over crowded & the losing ones becoming empty, OR FW would become even more popular than it currently is & no-one would even bother taking part.
Anyway IF Greyscale has ANYTHING to do with the changes then I will make the call now that he will totally fuck it all right up.
Nerfing High Sec will cost subscriptions as others say.
Nerfing will not help move the people from high sec to low sec or 0.0. They are in high sec for a reason. Most casual gamers are the lifeblood of any game, its folks that play just a couple hours a week and sadly most of those players are not welcomed by the major null sec alliances. The problem is most major null sec alliances expect you to put the game before life and that's unrealistic for most people. Sure if your single, unemployed and have basically no social life you can be on eve 12-16 hours a day and not bat an eye but most folks don't make it that way in the real world.
You have to buff low sec to make it more meaningful, but you have to do that without nerfing another area of the game. My thoughts start introducing tech 3 modules. Scatter new resources in low sec that are used to make these tech 3 modules. I'd do it in the form of anamolies that have to be probed out. You can do it as drops from rats or mining or a combo of the two.
It is a good idea, but high-sec miners flock. Because they flock will a massive nerf not make them all go into low-sec suddenly. They will first need to spread out over high-sec, before they will do something else. Expecting miners to do 2 steps over 1 step will most definitely drive some out of the game. One cannot just smack the flocks as hard as possible and then expect them to scatter like roaches. Why? Because roaches are little, aggressive shits and miners are not. The goal has to be to reduce the flocks and by reducing what makes them.
What makes miners flock: the number of belts in a system, the number of stations, the number of gates, the proximity to a market hub and nose picking. The number of belts in a system and the distance to a market hub explains itself. The number of gates simply means that a system is well connected and picks up the miners of the surrounding systems more easily, and the number of stations in a system increases the chance for getting a perfected refining.
Reducing the number of asteroid belts would not change much about the flocks. High-sec already gets to see smaller asteroids, fewer ore types and yet do we get flocks of miners. Reducing the number of gates to a system will have far too many side effects and only little impact on mining itself. What remains are the stations and the nose picking. Reducing the number of stations also will have too many side effects and only a change of the mining yields is a save option for the game designers to change something effectively and with little side effects.
Right now does almost every station in high-sec offer a 50% base refining yield. It is impossible not to find a system without one in it. A reduction of the base yield already makes sense only on the grounds of adding more diversity to the game. A 40% yield means that one would have to get a refining implant or level 5 in a processing skill to reach perfect refining at these station. Most miners only ever train their ore processing skills to level 4, because it is a requirement for using T2 crystals, but beyond this is there no incentive to do so and they begin playing with their genitals.
Reducing the base refining yield of half of the stations would force miners to search for ways to improve their refining yield within high-sec, but at the same time leave them with several options to choose from with low-sec mining being one of them.
Sorry, not "mining yields" of the stations, but "refining yields"…
if ccp are that desperate to force people into ls, just lower the sec status of all hs systems to .4 and below
Eve high sec and pve endgame is the most boring and retard compared to any other games..period>
Much more of this and players will need to have an alt in every aspect of eve.
put wormholes to jove space only in low sec…. max one per constellation
limited to max bs size ships
also introduce jovian npc pirates that drop compontents for old jove tech … (que T3 modules)
also make the jovian npc pirates have incursion AI with sites that require vg 10 / as 20 / hq 50 people to complete…. then player pirates can have fun sneaking in and killing the guys doing the sites. also have NO LOCAL in jove space.
yep
somebody's useing their brain for a change, exactly what is needed.