Riverini’s note: We received word on how TEST Alliance Please Ignore had some issues with money, to the point of asking +100bil loans from a “mystery” donor (Hint: He prolly owns a husky dog).

Rather than pointing and laughing at TEST Alliance financial incompetence (read on and you will find out why), we at Eve News24 embarked in a discovery journey to fix TEST Alliance economy and bring them a bit closer to that impossible dream. For this, we enrolled our very own “Space Clark Howard”; Danny Centauri – who made a damn fine job at pointing the leaks and proposing how to fix them. He warrants an interesting read, even you are not an industrialist.

Fixing TEST Alliance’s Financial Woes – A Case Study.

We have all seen them floating around, but how many of us have actually looked into the TEST accounts beyond cringing at the 32bil per month loss and wondering what poor soul has lent them over 100bil.

With a little bit of digging it becomes pretty apparent that TEST have no reason to be making a 32bil loss per month, infact they could be making a 50bil profit with a little bit of effort perhaps even more with a committed industrial backbone to the alliance.

Before I get into where TEST can see a big gain in income let’s take a look at a couple of small and obvious things that should already be happening within TEST:

1 – Build all T1 BCs in highsec and import them, don’t simply buy in Jita or other Trade Hubs. The profit per unit on BCs varies on where you purchased your minerals, the race and the tier. This averages out for me at around 3.5mil profit per unit when sold in Jita.

If we just look over the past month of fighting test have lost in the region of 1500 BCs, which if they would have built themselves could have saved them ~5bil, this could be achieved with a single character manufacturing on 10 slots.

2 – Set up a team for T2 ship production, a team of 40 people could easily manufacture 250 cruiser size hulls per week through invention alone to cover all losses. On average the profit per unit is 20mil per unit, substantially higher for logistics and lower for HACs. This would save around 20bil per month; ships that are not used for reimbursements could be exported for sale in Jita.

3 – Manufacture all POS fuel, looking at the POS fueling cost on the spreadsheet it appears that fuel is not being built it is being imported. I favoured the cheaper fuel types in my analysis and estimated that a 4.7% saving could be reached, 3.5bil of POS fuel saved every single month.

Now these are all pretty obvious and to some extent these things may be happening within TEST already, if not then they are paying a heavy price for laziness which makes their current financial situation well deserved. Its pretty simple really *build all the things!*.

These savings are a mere shadow of what TEST could achieve when compared to increase in revenue through better management of their moon assets. The income that TEST appear to generate from their moons is a raw mineral median sell price, its highly possible they are selling in bulk at Jita median as is often done on mailing lists such as ‘bulk trade’.

As this income has always been so good pre tech nerf it appears that big alliances became lazy with little incentive to make even more ISK, this left little guys like myself with an opportunity to take cuts from their profits through taking the moon materials these big alliances were harvesting, reacting them to create advanced materials and making big profits week in week out.

TEST holds the following moons of importance:

16 – Technetium
28 – Neodymium
14 – Dysprosium
2 – Promethium

As soon as I saw these moons I knew the first thing I would do, build nanotransistors! The nanotransistor reaction is a complex reaction:

100 Neomercurite + 100 Platinum Technite + 100 Sulfuric Acid = 1500 Nanotransistors

This reaction uses three processed materials the neomercurite which required Neodymium, platinum technite which requires technetium and sulfuric acid which is extremely cheap and easy to import in bulk.

Lets take a quick look at the Neomercurite and Platinum technite reactions:

100 Neodymium + 100 Mercury = 200 Neomercurite
100 Technetium + 100 Platnium = 200 Platinum Technite

The limiting factor in the volume of production here is the technetium with TEST holding 16 moons, so only 16 of the neodymium moons would be used in the process also. Each of these moons could be reconfigured to complete their corresponding simple reaction (two simple reactions can fit on a POS but I expect that TEST would be left with a bad feeling if they ate up all their control tower CPU and PG with reactors and silos leaving nothing for defenses). This process would provide 3200 Neomercurite and Platinum Technite per hour, enough for 32 complex reactions to produce nanotransistors. The costings are detailed below:

Imported materials per day

38,400 – Mercury – 5,500 per unit – 211,200,000 daily cost
38,400 – Platinum – 4,500 per unit – 172,800,000 daily cost
76,800 – Sulfuric Acid – 4,900 per unit – 376,320,000 daily cost

Additional POS fuel per day

Gallente Fuel Block – 30,720 – 15,000 per unit – 460,800,000 daily cost

Exported materials per day

1,152,000 – Nanotransistors – 6,890 per unit – 7,937,280,000 daily revenue

Profit daily – 6,716,160,000
Profit daily if selling materials raw according to TEST spreadsheet – 5,035,518,444
Daily loss of profit – 1,680,641,556
Monthly loss of profit – 51,119,513,995

The units produced in 1 day is enough for a single week of my personal T2 ship production, the market trades on average 20mil units of nanotransistors per day in Jita alone. This reactions is very sustainable and through running an additional 32 POS would solve all of TESTs profit problems. The fact this isn’t being done now is just lazy, or perhaps *tin foil hats on* it is being done just TEST want us to think they are bad at EVE.

With 16 tech and 16 neo moons being used this would leave TEST with the following moons to play with:

12 – Neodymium
14 – Dysprosium
2 – Promethium

Personally I would take this and react it to create fermionic condensates:

100 Caesarium Cadmide + 100 Dysporite + 100 Fluxed Condensates + 100 Prometium = 200 Fermionic Condenstates

With some imports 24 of these reactions could be run to produce 115,200 units of Fermionic Condensates per day this is half of the average traded volume in Jita daily so may be slightly excessive but it is a good example of what could be done with the rest of the moons.

Imported materials per day:

28,800 – Thulium – 2,800 per unit – 80,640,000 daily cost
28,800 – Cadmium – 2,000 per unit – 57,600,000 daily cost
28,800 – Mercury – 5,500 per unit – 158,400,000 daily cost
24,000 – Promethium – 5,000 per unit – 120,000,000 daily cost
57,600 – Caesarium Cadmide – 4,150 per unit – 239,040,000 daily cost

Additional POS fuel per day

Gallente Fuel Block – 23,040 – 15,000 per unit – 345,600,000 daily cost

Exported materials per day

115,200 – Fermionic Condensates – 20,090 per unit – 2,314,368,000 daily revenue

Profit daily – 1,313,088,000
Profit daily if selling materials raw according to TEST spreadsheet – 969,690,996
Daily loss of profit – 343,397,004
Monthly loss of profit – 10,444,992,205

Whilst this isn’t as big as the previous reaction its still an obvious win here is how things would look in total if test turned their high end materials into Nanotransistors and Fermionic Condensates.

Total monthly loss of profit – 61.6bil
Current loss on accounting spreadsheet – 36.1bil
Profit on accounts if started to react moon materials – 25.5bil

Yes thats 56 POS’s extra to maintain and about 8 Jump Freighters full of materials imported every single week, but it takes a financially crippled alliance and makes them healthily profitable. To put it into numbers that PvP grunts care about your FCs could welp another 2 drake fleets per month whilst still being able to pay the alliance bill!

Someone should be starting to ask the question in TEST right now who is managing our resources and are we getting bang for our buck, because looking at the resources held there is no reason to be making a loss. Actually TEST directors whilst I think about it I’ll happily take a consultancy fee for optimising your moon operations, just do the alliance a favor and kick whatever neanderthal you have managing your resources right now.

Whilst older corporations and alliances can rely on their T2 BPOs to fund their activities that is not a privilege which young alliances such as TEST have. One thing is clear that if the accounts are accurate as posted then something needs to change – PvP alliances, especially in nullsec, can only survive if they maintain a strong industrial backbone.

- Danny Centauri

Disclaimer, this is not a “silver bullet” but should serve as insight to alliance leaders and grunts alike.

Send us Intel/Corrections via dropbox or shoot us an e-mail

Send us Intel/Corrections via dropbox or shoot us an e-mail

  • testpet

    If you look at mineral prices in Fountain, it is FAR cheaper to build the bc's in Fountain than in hisec.

    • Sreggin Wej

      It's also far more a pain in the ass.
      Industry in nullsec is AIDS, cancer and malaria put together.

    • Bittervet

      Calling "a welpfleet of trit" enough to build 500 drakes, how many welpfleets of trit are for sale in Fountain right now ?

  • ex-test

    TEST is probably no better or worse than any other large alliance at making their assets work for them; my money says profits are being skimmed by leadership.

    • Tribal Band Member

      You imply that test high command is stealing alliance isk, using their alliance as income to buy their 2 bil pimped pvp vindicators ? Doesn't that happen in every major alliance anyway ?

      • ERMAHGERD

        Except that alliance you're referring too has NO money problems, and as much as you scrubs call them shit they are more established than you will ever be. Fact is, they're smart, YOU'RE shit

        • wow

          propaganda much

  • bestshot

    if Test HC said "okay guys we need an indy wing" you'd see 4000 rifters equiped with civi mining lazors buzzing around belts, dying to rats

    • wut

      >TEST HC
      wut

  • Catastrophe

    I knew Test was in trouble when i started noticing alts flying around spamming that they are looking for renters

    • Corteztk

      I hope people understand how stupid it would be to rent from test right now. Chances are better than not they end up being pushed back to Fountain. Either:

      A: they run out of money and have to retreat back to delve at best
      or
      B: Solar throws its weight against Goons and Test gets called north

      Either way renting from Test right now is a bad idea. Plus AAA loves griefing neut renters.

      • heh

        AAA already made Viking Empire disband. Anyone wanting to rent that pocket right next to Catch would be retarded

        • TEST Bro

          Most of Viking empire joined Test Friends Please Ignore.

      • TEST Bro

        TEST is currently offering VERY favorable terms to entities looking to make use of the new space. If this interests you make sure you contact an official TEST diplomat to discuss. I believe there are very favorable terms for current -A- renters.

        Protip: make sure they are a real diplomat. I am doing you a favor here, make sure they are a real diplomat. Don't be a dumbass and get scammed.

        Last I heard there were no CTAs and very minimal fees.

        • lkjh

          lol… scam

      • Fiberton

        I rather those targets remain in querious :) Please take TEST and Tribal Band up on their offer or who ever else is " renting " that space. Our pilots who roam around need people to kill.

        Thanks :)

      • lkjh

        Test doesn't rent space, they scam isk.

    • Captain Salmon

      We've been doing rental scams for fucking ever. This is not a new occurance.

  • Radamoses

    How many TESTIES does it take to build an industry backbone? The number your looking for is Zero. Why is it that you ask? CUZ HONEYBADGER DONT GIVE A FUCK!!

    • pubbiewaffe

      see you guys back in empire running level 3's

    • Cunty

      PL will give a fuck when their broskis are brokeski.

    • ghfgh

      fucking-A.

      I'm more than happy to run test in to the ground and lose sov and then reset goons as well.

      Who gives a shit, PEW PEW PEW PEW PEW… SPACE!

  • CCP is best

    Some guy who spent 5 mins thinking about it came up with a better plan than all the best minds in TEST put together.

    I am not shocked.

    • TEST Indy

      All the best minds in TEST – I lol'd.

    • Shames

      I want to know how he can look into alliances accounts that could really be useful.

      • Tech Wut?

        These are public documents tardbox…keep up with the convo.

  • Bear1990

    What is this? An articulate and well researched article on my evenews24? HERESY!

    • Danny_Centauri

      Glad you enjoyed it, will hopefully be bringing more like it in the near future. :)

      • N.N.

        Please do. An interesting read for a grunt like myself with very little industrial experience. Only thing I figured out myself is that I'm getting ripped off everyday in Eve :)

    • Captain Salmon

      This article is many things. Well-researched it is not.

  • droljica

    omg, dry testicles…..

    • The14th

      Must… not… upvote… troljica…

  • Test Pilot

    whats a "reaction"?

    • DarthNefarius

      Its what you get from running a Internet alliance finances in the red like a drunk sailor on payday from your owner

  • Youaskedforit

    and all this time i thought TEST was doing so good.. wow.. so the truth finally came out..

    • buttte

      are you fucking retarded

      > comments from someone outside of test theorycrafting off a public spreadsheet
      > OH SHIT IT MUST BE TRUE

  • DarthNefarius

    Well TEST could always move to AMARR FW & run complexes but they'd probably do worse then NULLI & not make it past Tier 3 let alone Tier 4 xD

    • DarthNefarius

      Then again TEST wasn't doing that bad in Incursion PvE… do they know that the OTA's in the last patch were fixed so that the MARAS's no longer spawn & the repper tower was moved 50 KM closer? It wasn't really put in the patch notes for Inferno 1.2

      • lol

        FFS, why do you have to relate incursion to everything, your boring,repetitive niche alongside its ignorant and elitist community is not important to the rest eve,

  • RalphSylva

    So, what you are saying is that TEST is just plain lazy?

    • Danny_Centauri

      Either plain old lazy or lying on their public facing accounts, either could be possible.

      Things were formerly far too good with extremely high tech prices so I think this is the first time TEST have really had to worry about their income.

      • Bittervet

        Danny,

        It could be a Credit Mobilier style fraud – sell it to yourself for average Jita selling price "via bulk trade", and then personally do the Fermonic Condensate etc reactions.

      • Fastnlose

        How were you able to look into their accounts and see the 32 Bil a month loss, and the 100 Bil loan? I gots to know!!!

        • Tech Wut?

          These documents are made public by test leadership…Wake the fuck up already

          • zzzz

            Yeah that CAN'T be faked, right? Right?

    • Dick

      So ur helping TEST to do shit ?? lolz

    • A Goat

      I wouldn't say that neglecting video game tasks is being lazy. Think about that for a bit.

  • a testie

    Or our Logi backbone(one of the largest and purportedly most efficient in the game) is being strained at the amount of work needed when tripping the amount of space held.

    Tech moons are not our limiting bottleneck. Limiting Bottleneck is rorq/BR man-hours(of which we already use a shiteload of).

  • BntyHunter

    This means just like the good old US OF A and Reagen AAA just has to wait them out keep slugging at 50% and Test will be gone within 2-3 months….Sounds easy enough…If I was Test I would rent 90% of my space including rare moon goo and have the renter/carebears pay 70% and keep 30% just for doing its work.

    Work to live program :)

  • a testie

    Or our Logi backbone(one of the largest and purportedly most efficient in the game) is being strained at the amount of work needed when trippling the amount of space held.

    • 0.o Grunt

      bet you'll blame Nulli for making you take 3x the sov that you can handle. Just drop it, no one wanted that sov anyways!

    • Jesus

      Lol you said most efficient!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      • Guest

        Which logistics activities are needed in an empty region like querious then ? pls enlighten me

  • Cameron

    its corruption at the highest level

  • Goon Master Chief

    It must suck to belong to an alliance that doesn't have a clue how to do this shit. And have a complete outsider hold your hand and tell you how to do it. ROFL

  • Silk75

    Compulsory KIA style mining ops incoming?

  • Shitposter

    CrapOrinni at it again! Way to go you know what's equals 2 + 2. Keep up the troll postin.

  • too

    Does test need a United Nation Relief fleet????? im sure I can get some former OWN pilots to help you out …. not..

  • TEST Indy

    This would require too much organisation – and they'd require industrialists to run it.

  • Gunny

    Like i said, they bit off more than they could chew, now their choking on it.

  • unsatisfied reader

    Time is running out for test to complete the test they set up for themselves. And new Eden will be giving them their final grade soon enough.

    • jarhead

      -A- ?

  • Audit Audit!!!!!

    ALL THAT TECH WASTED!!!

    I THINK A FULL AUDIT OF ALL TEST'S FINANCES BE CONDUCTED BY A NEUTRAL AND UNBIASED PARTY!!

    • Really

      Like Riverini!

      • Audit Audit!!!!!

        Nah.. Chribba should do it :)

  • catiz

    Mhh, i got no clues about all that industry stuff, but from reading that article i got the impression that Test is making 240+b profit a monthwith moongoo.
    Also i hear from everyone -A- does not have any moons worth mentioning.

    So how comes i get everything from my tengu to my new clone reimbursed, cta or not, and meanwhile Test cant afford to pay for their drake/rifter/random other shit fleets?

    • think About It

      Thats because Test HC have to line their own wallets with something. Just like all of those knobjockies in that coalition that have moons ATM

    • TESTPILOTBESTPILOT

      Think about this for a moment. -A- does not own moons yet they have a vast renter network of players who probably contain a good number of bots. That renter network generates a good few hundred Billion per month of income for -A-. Also many of the corps that rent from -A- also produce the ships that you get back in reimbursement. Such as the bare bone hull of a Tengu you get back in Catch as a reimbursement when you lose one and have to spend your own money to buy the other subs and such before flying it back out to the edge near Delve.

      Secondly, this many of your alliance members may not know but your illustrious leaders and FCs fly around and welp fleets or good portions of them and turn around and use neutral market alts on accounts that cannot be tracked so they can relist items and make a profit off of your death and their welp. This allows them to relist over the 15% markup cap that I have heard is imposed within the Alliance. Now say you have a fleet of Tengus they just welped. They get the hulls from renters as part of their payment or whatever then they turn around and buy the subs and mods in Jita for cost. They then mark them up 20-25% over Jita rather than 15%. You get a reimbursement of a Tengu hull and/or maybe some isk but you are going to be paying WAY over market to fatten their wallets. If you are reimbursed at Jita cost then expected to pay Jita + 20% who is getting that extra cash? A good JF pilot can import from Jita with a 10% markup and still make a decent to nice profit after subtracting fuel costs. I have heard this is a favorite practice of your head FC Makalu and other top -A- henchmen. Every mod I have ever bought in a TEST station from a test member has been within 10% of Jita price. Next time you are buying mods and you buy them from an NPC in catch check and see how much they are above Jita cost and know your isk will be fattening the wallet of the man that just flew you into 100+ supers sitting on a station.

      • lkjh

        Your an idiot

      • heh

        -A- has a wh-specific corp and other corps help in the WH ops lead by TDT, and this is how they get their t3 hulls so cheap.

      • Lulz boat

        I hope your next propaganda post is thought out a little more than this one was.

      • UdrankKoolaid

        -A- enforces anti price gouging practices. All contracted goods and ships are subject to this policy and are mainly provided by the corps…not the evil -A- FC's. And yes, all -A- are evil…it's part of the FC program here at A. No pussies need apply.

        • Foll trace

          -a- has no money, though.

      • U know who

        You were an idiot…now you're a broke idiot. You really should stop snorting the Kool-Aid powder – at least let Monti mix it with water before you post..

        For the most part, -A- Pilots are older and have thier own sources of income making them less dependant on the Alliance for support. . We're also more than capable of buying, moving and even making our OWN shit – it's uncommon for a member not to have at least one Capital.

        Test on the other hand has chosen to recruit very new players with the promise of an almost "Hugo Chavezesque" welfare like suppport system. The fact is many of these players are incapable of supporting themselves in 0.0 much less actually helping the alliance makes the model hard to sustain when times are good. Combined with the increased Sov cost, SRP cost of this war and the drop in tech prices – you have the makings for a perfect storm.

        So while I appreciate your concern of the welfare of the average -A- grunt, we'll be fine…we always are.

        • Issklar

          bla bla bla TEST recruits only newbies bla bla bla Shittalk

          Do you ever look at the Characters in Local by yourself or you just believe the Shitpropaganda that your Overlords hammering in your brain?

          Little Hint:
          85% of TEST have 3+ Years old Toons
          15% are newbies

          • Foll trace

            Have you ever fought test?

            They fight like noobs, but noobs gradually learn. But if those guys are 3+ year old there's no hope for test.

        • Bittervet

          U know who,

          Pretty much, and given all that Test needs to do is a surprisingly small amount of work to turn their budget around, I think they picked the right option of being inclusive, and -A- picked the wrong option of shitcanning new players

          Yeah, they actually need to do that work to earn the net 51B, but that pays for a couple more welpfleets a month.

      • catiz

        I get all stuff from corp, mostly below jita. if i loose a tengu i get a new one, no isk, so no idea about those market prizes.

      • -A- Market supplier

        Complete nonsense and wishful thinking. Just a wall of text not even worth spending 3 minutes of one's life.

        Market in -A- is supplied by random dudes. Prices of CTA ships, mods and fully fitted ships are kept at below 10% markup. Furthermore, there is JF service available to all -A- members which is basically just JF fuel cost, for the ones who have time to buy stuff in Jita and arrange courier contracts.

      • Corteztk

        If Makula has the time to do this then he must not sleep…..ever. Nice shit posting keep up the good work.

      • herp da derp

        I seed the -A- markets, and most of the regular items are fairly decent price 7%-12% markup from Jita, the only time you see bigger markups are for items that don't sell as fast. But besides that the -A- market is very competitive.

    • Micky Mouse

      Like said Test do not know how to manage money.
      And money can come from a lot more sources then MOONS.

      Heck get good ratters and that alone can make billions a day per system per ratter….

      Nuff said. And there are more ways.

      -A- new this was coming, and they can't even undock and rat any more them testicles.
      And already -A- replaced all their supers at no cost… gee….

      The shit is just warming up.

  • Danny_Centauri

    Happy to take on constructive feedback, but the article is pure research. Yes there are digs at TEST, but even when I was in Razor everyone made digs at TEST.

    I honestly hope that TEST carry on driving conflicts in EVE and do something about the poor cash flow situation. I'm sure its made much worse due to purchase of assets such as POS's and growing pains due to the current expansion.

    Right now the fact is TEST only survive because they have a community who support them financially, primarily within but as has been openly confessed they also have credit lines with Goons should the need ever come about.

    • lolwat

      Well, if you're taking constructive feedback, you should know that we DO react our moon goo already, and that its impractical to build battlecruisers on an alliance scale

      • Lulz boat

        ROFL its "impractical to build battlecruisers on an alliance scale" that right there is complete and utter bullshit and all it does is expose that you have no idea how to setup the industrial network he was talking about. You need to get low end mins to null and high end mins to high sec to fund the purchase of the lows then you build the BC's for about 3/4 the price they sell for in high sec, but that requires you know what you're doing, you have the characters and skills/ships to do it and are willing to invest the time to do it right.

      • Danny_Centauri

        Thanks for the feedback, the spreadsheet makes it appear as though you do no react your moon goo as the sell prices are Jita median I can only go on the data provided by TEST leadership. When an alliance puts out in the open that it is losing 32bil a month its only a matter of time before someone analyses that.

        As for building BCs its tricky but not impossible, I've personally built over 2000 a month and understand the logistical headache of moving minerals and the manufactured ships. Most things about 0.0 logistics are impractical that does not make them impossible or worthless.

        • whatever

          you completely discard the boundary between personal and alliance-level income, your article could just as well read "TEST members should just run more sanctums"

          the alliance may be poor but its members are wealthy (and the 100b are donations from its members, see the discussion on the GSF diplo update on "the other site", not sure how you come to the conclusion that the donation comes from a single mystery donor)

          Selling ships is personal business and results in personal income. The alliance can try to get in on the profit by setting refinery taxes which will result in massive protests from industrialists who need to decompress minerals (been there, done that) but does otherwise not profit financially from any efficiencies a ship builder might take advantage of.

          Moongoo reactions are probably private income as well (not 100% sure but I remember people buying raw materials from the alliance from when I was in TEST, so pretty sure).

          tl;dr your article is useless

          • Danny_Centauri

            I personally never implied that the donations were from Goons, the article is mine the introduction before it is not so lets get that out of the way to start with.

            Alliance members being wealthy is perfectly fine, but profiteering from your alliance is not. Ship production is not something that should be personal income, as for reacting alliance moon materials if that is personal income then thats corrupt as hell (60bil per month corrupt as hell).

            With an alliance that gives as much as TEST to its members there should be a certain level of 'give a little, get a little' the fact you believe these potentially healthy revenue streams should be personal incomes is dissapointing.

            There are a lot of people in TEST who do a lot of heavy lifting logistics work to keep people like you in the field, there's a lesson to be learnt from these heavily commited people and in my opinion it looks like you missed the point.

            Thank you for the feedback though :)

          • Jesus loves you

            Apparently you don't know shit.

            1. People doing logistics (i.e. fueling JBs / POSes) do get paid in some regard directly by the alliance.

            2. Nobody and I do mean nobody will spend time producing ships or making things available on the market if they are not allowed to make a profit (in other words profiteering from your alliance) – so get out. Obviously you have never lived in 0.0 nor been a member of a large alliance. Why shouldn't ship production be personal income if you choose to spend your time doing that instead of ratting? What you are saying is akin to industrial people not being allowed to make isk. Fuck you.

            3. You give back to the alliance everytime you login to defend it, everytime you sit in ships on titans waiting, just to be blueballed, everytime you spend YOUR time defending YOUR alliance – what more do you want? For people to be 100% space poor because all their time in the game is spent doing stuff for the alliance for free? How does that exactly help the alliance when said person can't afford to buy the first new reimbursable ship (and reimbursement is not 100%, so sooner or later if you make no isk you will run out of them!).

            4. You are awesome with spreadsheets, but have no idea of the logistical nightmare required for maintaining the amount of POSes in order to do what you are saying. I doubt very much you have played Eve except in easy mode using Excel and reading a bit on the net. Seriously. Come back once you have burned out at least once from fueling POSes ok?

          • Danny_Centauri

            LOL this comment is epic:
            1) I've done logistics in the past, all we got was jump fuel. Was back in day in hirr saying that logistics into Tribute wasn't too difficult.
            2) I do, and know a lot of people who also produce for alliance at cost. I have manufactured for corporation capital BPOs and T1 ship BPOs and didn't expect to get a single cent in return. The key is you can have 3 indy chars per account, make use of the slots and you can still make a personal profit!
            3) You are making a big assumption that indy players also join alliance fleets as often as PvPers. An industry backbone is about having a small group of players who whilst they don't pew much will get shit done. In OI Gaurina was not in fleet that often but bloody hell he sure hauled a lot and made sure we had ships.
            4) HAHAHAHA, first read my previous articles. I manufacture on average 150 T2 cruisers per week. I have done this alongside managing 16 POS's on my own. Doubt away but atleast have the decency to read my previous articles to find a little bit out about what I do.

            The arguments that seem to be coming up in response are primarily that you can't expect people to do things for free. I do, its what people who are industry minded like to see, EVE is a more fun complex version of sim city the fun is watching your allaince grow.

            Currently my PvP characters are in FW for just this reason in a small allianace, funding the ship reimbursements myself whilst helping them develop their own revenue streams. The fun for me is helping others and developing alliances, maybe I'm the minority but thats my view on it so you will have to live with it.

    • https://www.facebook.com/david.m.grogan David Grogan

      Maybe Test could create an industry renter alliance called "Test Industry Please Mine" then rent systems out to industry people to build and supply ships.

      • https://www.facebook.com/david.m.grogan David Grogan

        ticker could even be TIP'M lol

        • Are You Not Amused?

          Badum tish

  • Arnold Stallone

    TEST actually makes money out of -A- capital wrecks.
    Who cares about moons.

    • the vet

      test make money out of capital wrecks PL kill

      get it right

  • M1k3y

    :Spreadsheets:

    • M1k3y

      *Edit*

      : Spreadsheets :

      EN24's emotes messed it up :P

  • Shames

    How were you able to look into TESTs accounts? can you look into anyones? How do you do it?

    • Ashesofempires

      TEST's accounts are posted for all to see.

    • Sold

      posted on interwebz. You fail. Biomass now.

  • Fa grunt

    Test is the retarded child of the CFC or HSBC or whatever the fuck they are they can't do math how do you expect ten to. be industrialists

  • Old IT guy

    im surprised no one seems to have mentioned this, but it seems odd to me that TEST alliance has so much of an isk problem while holding essentially the same space as IT held, which when it died had a ton of isk. there was over a trillion isk in the reimbursement wallet alone. so where is test spending all of its money? IT had ship reimbursements as well, along with fuel reimbursements and all that other good stuff and did not have much of a renter base to speak of. was it just old BoB money, or did they just manage their spending better?

    • whatever

      Have you looked at R64 prices lately (i.e. at some point during the past 2.5 years?)

    • No one important

      IT had a large set of T2 BPOs, which are a constant source of wealth in the form of T2 BPCs. Very few players in TEST are old enough to have even been around during the T2 BPO lottery, much less benefit from the tilted table.

  • lololol

    holy shit you're dumb.

  • Testtube

    Test directors pocketing money. Nothing to see here. Move along.

  • Random Miner

    i make pos fuel for my pos, and it can be a very long, drawn out, and annoying process. It saves me isk, and i can sell the leftovers.
    But it would have to be even more complicated in an alliance where so many pos's need fuel, and people have to be responsible for making that fuel. For larger alliances, where the last thing people want to do is farm planets, importing fuel seems like the most reliable source

    • Danny_Centauri

      Looks like you misinterpretted what I was saying slighly, I was not suggesting that PI or mining for the ice materials was done.

      What I was suggesting is to buy all of the materials for the fuel blocks directly from Jita and build the blocks. With a 4min build time using 10 slots a single day provides 3600 hours of fuel, enough to feed 150 POS's.

      • Random Miner

        rgr that. clarified

  • Indie

    What ever the comments, great speculative article Danny. Fuck all the lazy M&S!

  • Shattershark

    "1 – Build all T1 BCs in highsec and import them, don’t simply buy in Jita or other Trade Hubs
    2 – Set up a team for T2 ship production, a team of 40 people could easily manufacture 250 cruiser size hulls per week through invention alone to cover all losses.
    3 – Manufacture all POS fuel, looking at the POS fueling cost on the spreadsheet it appears that fuel is not being built it is being imported. "

    Someone forgot to add 4 – Ore that I've mined myself is free.
    Also 4.5 – Ten freighter trips I need to haul required minerals are as free as one freighter trip to haul complete battlecruisers.

    Making people work for free saves money for employer (until they figure out what is happening) – what a novel idea!

    • Danny_Centauri

      BC production can be done in highsec, then the ships exported. It doesn't take much effort to move minerals far enough away from Jita to find empty manufacturing slots. If its too much effort you will still save ISK using Red Frog Freight to ship materials making logistics time sink the same.

      People would not be working for free, you are paid by the very fact you get ship reimbursements and space to make personal profit that alone should be enough. There are loads of people who of industrialists who support their alliance for free, ISK is not the only motivating factor in EVE.

      Think of Goonswarm – their industrialists, market speculators and logistics people are highly recognised and due to that respected across the EVE community. This recognition is enough to fuel most people to do things without ISK reward.

      • lalalala

        yeah, you really have no clue about 0.0 logistic and how to move stuff :)

        never had so much tears in my eyes because of laughing an article. had to restart reading 5 times.

      • Shattershark

        Suggesting to take low-end minerals from Jita is instafail, hauling them from elsewhere will take isk and/or effort.
        Using ME10 BPOs and minerals at current Jita sell orders you will only win roughly 1mil on Drakes and nothing (at best) on Hurricanes. On weekend that margin will go even lower, though finding someone to babysit buy orders (hello 0.01 isk) could help to save some of it.
        Note that you will also have to count 3.4bil (not counting research) spent on BPOs.

        Using Red Frog means that you also pay 1.9mil for every two jump trips and their collateral limit prevents you from using full freighter cargo capacity. That cuts into your anemic profit margin as well.
        If hauling is done in house then single Charon with caldari freighter at 5 will bring enough materials to build 29 Drakes, but to build those 1.5k Drakes per month you will need someone willing to provide a freighter and make 208 jumps for free.
        Essentially the same argument works for fuel blocks, and for T2 production it is compounded by necessity to finish and start tasks on time while spending significant effort to bring in materials and decryptors at steady pace.

        "People would not be working for free, you are paid by the very fact you get ship reimbursements and space to make personal profit that alone should be enough"
        Nope. People will spend their time, effort and characters/SPs, they will not be paid for those specific tasks, so they will in fact work for free

        Essentially your plan looks like this:
        1) Take a lot of people, hit them with good old "ask not what X can do for you, ask what you can do for X"
        2) Duplicate what dedicated highsec corps already do for years and know better than you
        3) Show inflated profit margins (creative accounting to the rescue!) to prove that it's all worth of the effort.
        4) Assume away costs that you don't like, pretend that people handling this task are unable to do the same on their own using alt corporations for personal profit.
        5) Make people involved believe that some kind of recognition and ship reimbursement (that covers whole alliance, not just builders and haulers for this project) is payment for their effort

        How to make it simple?
        1) Take a lot of people, hit them with good old "ask not what X can do for you, ask what you can do for X", add recognition and reimbursement-as-payment bullshit on top of that
        2) Convince or make them to donate 10/20/40/x million isk per month For The Greater Good, round them up for PvE ops, slap additional tax or fee, etc.

        • Danny_Centauri

          Theres reason in what you say so I'll take that one on the chin. On a cost benefit level the t1 ship production most likely isn't worth it, the same industrialists effort would be better spent with the increased logistics from managing additional reactions which are more than 10 fold as productive.

          Thanks for the detailed response.

      • eeeehhh

        … some people maybe. With the mentality in eve, you could never hope for "most people" to take "ur awesome bro" in exchange for isk

  • https://www.facebook.com/david.m.grogan David Grogan

    Test should apply for a bailout loan from the IMF/Troika Group… it worked for Greece, Ireland, Portugal and soon Spain & Italy

    • A Goat

      Holy shit you are a dork.

      • Bob's capsule

        you do realise your on a news site for internet spaceships right?

  • jesus

    why the fuck is this important to anyone? who cares? the amount of scamming they do they deserve to be losing money!!! they are low life scum of eve…ALSO THEY DO NOT NEED TO OWN EVERY DAMN SYSTEM, THEY CHOOSE TO. DROP ALL THE NONE STATION SYSTEMS

    • The Mittani

      But if we don't own the system how are we to keep an IHUB online in every system thus ensuring suicide on behalf of the pilots of any super fleets that decide to try to take the space back.

  • Lugalbandak

    ccp, more cost for sov pleaaaaasseeeeeee , remove the endliss blue lissst pleaaasssseeeee , im willing to pay real money for it lols , but without joking , look at the alliance map ccp dudes , wy there alliance that have close to 20% of sov let alone the fucking coalitions tey create , STOP STOP THEM for the sace of 0.0 and anti blob warfare. Also comon TEST learn to fucking use your 0.0 resources , you dont need high sec.

  • Carl Stonewall

    Your calculations are way off on profits from building your own t1, t2. To reap those kinda profits, industrials would have to work more or less for free…

  • Suzume

    Titans. JFs. -Thousands- of members… All that tech…. and you can't make bank? Wow. Really!? Sounds like you guys need to give more help to your indy guys or find some new ones.

  • A Goat

    Wow, this is completely asinine. For some facts go to…

    Oh wait, this will be deleted anyway.

  • Guest

    The only problem that I can see with relying on a couple of profit-making reactions is that once the market is saturated, you need to start looking around for other ways to make money – that solution is a little simplistic, especially people are probably now scrambling to hoard those resources to profit from it after reading this article.

  • Accountant

    Yet another TEST issue nobody gives a flying f*** about.

  • Jita Shinra

    Well if they didnt have to pay
    PL so much money to baby sit them, maby they wouldnt be so skint !