Leak: Fatal Ascension, a Heist and Eve Online’s First World Problems.

By riverini | Aug 22nd 2012 4:10PM
127 Comments

As you might recall, Serenity Engineering and Transport Company [SETC] claimed to have stolen up to 250bil from Fatal Ascension alliance, SETC is now part of Tribal Band, a member of the Pandemic Legion/TEST subset of the Deklein Coalition.

A Cash Strapped Tribe

This “newblood” came as a blessing for Tribal Band who happened to be short changed by TEST Alliance due to some pending TEST ops ship reimbursements:

THIS POLICY EFFECTIVE AS OF NOW, AUGUST 7TH.

All reimbursement from now until further notice (read: hopefully end of major war or until we have a larger secured alliance income) we are making a slight modification to the reimbursement policy to stretch our isk as far as possible and still be able to pay our massive sov bills.

So, We will reimburse major stratops (sov defense, TEST defense fleets, etc) This does not include random roams or any non-reimbursable TEST fleets. This is only for major timers, major sov defense, and any POS/Station/Hub timers.

For now, we can only reimburse 2 shiptypes:
(40mil isk) PERMA MWD Drake (T1 launchers are fine, but rest of fit needs to be alliance specs found here

(120mil isk) MWD SCIMITAR (Found Here)

These fits will be checked and you may receive a lower reimbursement or none at all if the fit it too far altered from the one’s spec’d here.

Please follow the instructions on applying for reimbursement as stated in the big yellow box above. If you can post the jabber ping if in a TEST fleet this would also be greatly helpful.

All other reimbursements applied for before this post will be honored. Hopefully once the war dies down and/or we secure more income for the alliance we can re-instate the original Reimbursement plan.

Thanks,
Crelic.

SETC is most likely to infuse a healthy amount of liquidity into Tribal Band.

The Drama heats up a bit.

On the Fatal Ascension camp, the drama seems to be far from over, here is a leak with an exchange containing some chunky bits of theory crafting, arm-twisting and even RL black mailing.

The TL;DR is: two of the characters have their RL names / emails tied to the FA black list, one of them asked for the email to be taken down, given it has a domain related to his RL company.

Let’s start with the truth. SETC claims that they took 250 billion ISK from FA. This amounts to (At $34.99 USD for 1 billion isk at today’s plex prices) $8,747.50.

Fencejumper, Belgarion Locksley and other members of the corp were proud of their actions. They sent a mail to the entire alliance claiming it as their going away present. They even bragged about it on Eve News 24, posting their own screenshots to show that they wanted the public notoriety for their actions.

[linkage]

The problem is, FA is part of a larger coalition, and there was always the potential for one of these players to get into another alliance. As such, we posted the following to our blacklist

[link REDACTED]
[link REDACTED]

Posting these to our blacklist is part of our policy, as it alerts our allies of problems. We use known, valid e-mail addresses because they are identifiers that are not easily changed and are critical to verifying identities beyond the player or even their alts that we are aware of.

Sure, one of these players is not happy about the fact that his e-mail is now tied to the taking of almost $9,000.

I’m sure another one isn’t happy that his very small computer services company’s name is probably starting to come up as being tied to the removal of $9,000 of stuff that simply wasn’t theirs. It isn’t good for business. Yes, I’m sure he can explain to potential clients that it is just a game and he did things within the mechanics of the game. It may be harder to explain to a perspective employer, but that isn’t my problem. They were the ones who admitted to doing it. The simple fact is, the above statements are true. Fencejumper did take almost $9,000 of goods from the alliance.

Belgarion Locksley did send an e-mail bragging about it.

Then today, this arrived in our inbox.

This is a formal request to have my ([REDACTED]) personal E-Mail address ([REDACTED]@gmail.com) in addition to several others removed from your publicly accessable blacklist hosted on your site (fatal-ascension.com ) (www.fatal-ascension.com/index.php?action=blacklist). This request is an attempt to prevent any further harrasment emails as a result of your placing myself and my colleagues on your blacklist not only by ingame character name (for Eve Online) but also in many cases personally identifiable E-Mail addresses that include true Legal forename and surname.

The basis for this request is brought from the Data Protection Act of 1998 for the United States, Where your servers are physcially located according to an internet search of the domain (fatal-ascension) (64.85.160.xx):
OrgName: Great Lakes Comnet, Inc.
OrgId: GLC-30
Address: 1515 Turf Lane
Address: Suite 100
City: East Lansing
StateProv: MI
PostalCode: 48823
Please remove the offending material as soon as possible as to protect my any my colleagues personal privacy.

Now, the above is true. We are using their e-mail address as an identifier on our blacklist. The server is hosted in Michigan. There is absolute proof of this being true. Here’s the problem. [REDACTED]is requesting we remove his e-mail based on the Data Protection Act of 1998 for the United States (I’ll ignore the horrible capitalization).

Here, you can see the data protection act. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_Protection_Act_1998

Yes, that’s right. There is no Data Protection Act of 1998 for the United States. None, zero, zip. Yes, there is one for the U.K. but last I checked, Michigan hasn’t fallen into that jurisdiction for about 250 years (Back in the Quebec Act days of 1774). I am fairly certain that all application of British Law stopped in Michigan at that time. (Ok, it was really the Treaty of Paris of 1783, and 229 years since Her Majesty had jurisdiction, but who is counting).

This is a false legal threat created through lies and deceit. While the first amendment grants Mr. J. the right to make any statements he wants (within reason), this claim is patently and undeniably false. It is just further proof that Mr. J. and his associates have no desire to be honest or truthful in their dealings with anyone in this alliance. They are concerned that their lies will live on the internet forever publicly tied to their names and now they are resorting to more lies to try and have them removed. The fact is, in order to be considered slander (which would be the only actionable legal ground in the United States), the claims that caused them to be placed on the list would need to be proven not only false but maliciously false. And as they’ve admitted themselves on other websites, the claims are true and are their own words with regards to their actions.

Now, lets say we were in the U.K. That there was some actual legal basis to all of this. The problem is, the act they are quoting says:

Personal data shall be processed fairly and lawfully and, in particular, shall not be processed unless- at least one of the conditions in Schedule 2 is met, and in the case of sensitive personal data, at least one of the conditions in Schedule 3 is also met.

The data subject (the person whose data is stored) has consented (“given their permission”) to the processing;

Sensitive personal data must be processed according to a stricter set of conditions, in particular any consent must be explicit.

Well, the issue is that the purpose of the data is to play Eve. The e-mail was entered into our database by Mr. J. himself. It is still being used for the purpose of playing EVE.

Now, the act does allow him to have his data removed. Here is the exact cause that allows it to be removed.

The Act refers to the “right to prevent processing”. Although this may give the impression that an individual can simply demand that an organisation stops processing personal data about them, or stops processing it in a particular way, the right is often overstated. In practice, it is much more limited. An individual has a right to object to processing only if it causes unwarranted and substantial damage or distress. If it does, they have the right to require an organisation to stop (or not to begin) the processing in question.

Since his current situation is “receiving harassing e-mail” which can easily be ignored by deleting the first one and blocking future mails, this does not qualify as “unwarranted and substantial damage or distress”. Sorry, but no luck there.

Sensitive personal data concerns the subject’s race, ethnicity, politics, religion, trade union status, health, sex life or criminal record.[16]

And since an e-mail address meets none of the above, it does not require explicit consent.

So, even getting the continent wrong, the country wrong, and a myriad of spelling and grammatical mistakes (If you are going to claim harassment, please be able to spell it), he even got the law itself wrong. So even if our server was under Her Royal Majesty’s purview, the law still would not apply.

Any issue of harassment, would be between Mr. J. and the offending person, not this website.

However, we are not evil. I understand the damaging implications to Mr. J. and his associates. I wouldn’t want my name tied forever to an admitted taking of almost $9,000 that I was entrusted with. We will remove the e-mail addresses of all SETC members from our blacklist for repayment of the 250 billion ISK to Clan Shadow Wolf by August 24th. We will also remove all e-mail addresses from this post at that time, if the above is met.

The choice is yours.

After reading all this, I found the “$9,000″ price tag of this drama akin of an RMT dispute. Any how, another day in the life of Null-Sec entities and their First World problems.

- R

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127 Comments

  1. huehuehue

    How the F do you connect it to RMT?

    August 22, 2012 at 4:17 pm Reply
    1. RMT4lif

      Let’s start with the truth. SETC claims that they took 250 billion ISK from FA. This amounts to (At $34.99 USD for 1 billion isk at today’s plex prices) $8,747.50.

      He basically starts from stating they got isk stolen, to non-stop mentioning the 9,000 USD sum…

      August 22, 2012 at 4:31 pm Reply
      1. huehuehue

        As a way of conversion yes.
        Killboards do the same thing, converts isk to $. So they are RMT'ing aswell?

        August 22, 2012 at 4:35 pm Reply
    2. anonymous

      Well they keep referring it to a 9000 dollar loss instead of a 250 billion isk loss. I'd say someone just lost his money to pay his bills irl. "taking of almost $9,000."

      August 22, 2012 at 4:31 pm Reply
    3. internet law

      agree that's pretty ludicrous. no evidence to connect those. raging pilots will convert drakes to US$ through PLEX rates to rage harder, it's pretty standard practice

      September 18, 2012 at 5:57 am Reply
    4. ed lolington

      repeating OVER $9000 is just a desperate attempt to get the ISK back by applying a pressure that extends to RL through his email. If they had never tied his real identity to the claim taht HE STOLE OVER $9000 US DORRAR this would just be lol tears. which is kinda the whole point of all this

      September 18, 2012 at 6:00 am Reply
  2. xxolve

    What's funny is the FA blacklist includes tons of people that were previously blacklisted from other CFC entities that, despite warnings, etc… FA recruited into their alliance anyway. The rest of their blacklist is either corp thefts (lol every 3 months) or ratting drama, special shout out to the people banned because Zag'dul is literally hitler.

    And FFS Riv- The DekCo =/= CFC or HBC. They are completely different entities and despite what ever reason you feel entitled to lumping them under a different name, you just make yourself sound ridiculous and lose even more credibility.

    It's cool though, didn't want that online gaming news site anyway.

    August 22, 2012 at 4:19 pm Reply
    1. HBC guy

      I don't know, seeing DekCo being thrown around instead of CFC and HBC makes me giggle with joy over how butthurt Rivereni is.

      August 22, 2012 at 4:59 pm Reply
      1. Poastin Toaster

        You both must be new or something.

        DekCo and the CFC are basically the same thing.

        In the beginning there was DekCo then someone came up with CFC. Eventually everyone started calling them CFC instead of DekCo. CFC and DekCo both have most of the same alliances, same rules, same blue list and defently the same leadership, ie. GoonSwarm Federation MK III. (we will get to GSF MKIII in a minute).

        Since this is really the second incarnation of DekCo we could and should use DekCo MK II.

        Now on to GSF MK III, and I will make this a TL;DR

        This is the third time Goonswarm has refromed just like TRI MK III.

        So in closing we have

        DekCo MK II

        lead by

        GoonSwarm Federation MK III

        August 22, 2012 at 5:21 pm Reply
  3. Poastin Toaster

    So that corp that stole stuff from FA is still blue to FA. This is great.

    August 22, 2012 at 4:25 pm Reply
    1. huehuehue

      No they are not.
      Tribal band is set -10 because of SETC being in their alliance.

      August 22, 2012 at 4:36 pm Reply
      1. Poastin Toaster

        Has TEST reset Tribal Band? Until they do, They are still Blue to the CFC.

        August 22, 2012 at 5:10 pm Reply
        1. old timer

          wrong again. try a better troll .

          PL , TEST , TEST friends , are blue to CFC.
          all the rest of the HBC , including tribal band , is neutral to CFC .
          its a soft reset , meaning we dont attack each other's interests , but we are free to pew pew if we see each others in the overview

          August 22, 2012 at 5:32 pm Reply
          1. truefacts

            mmmm look at all that junk in the trunk.

            August 22, 2012 at 7:05 pm
          2. Poastin Toaster

            tribal band is blue to test,
            test is a member of the cfc
            tribal band is blue to the cfc.

            August 23, 2012 at 2:11 am
          3. cUnty

            Keep up with the news or STFU wanker…
            CFC reset ALL HBC pets.

            Cunt.

            August 23, 2012 at 8:07 pm
      2. QualiT

        Tribal Band will be pretty happy about that,scrubs to kill at least =)

        August 22, 2012 at 11:45 pm Reply
    2. Someone

      Nope. Not Blue.
      eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=144…

      August 22, 2012 at 10:42 pm Reply
    3. FA Pilot

      ACtually, SETC and TB are now set RED to FA

      August 23, 2012 at 8:10 pm Reply
  4. The Ro Mister

    I LOL'd at this,
    Yeah true story

    August 22, 2012 at 4:29 pm Reply
  5. herpaderp

    M0fotten gets banned for a month, just using some simple words, but these guys are actually hurting someones real life through a game. which shouldn't be tolerated by ccp.

    ccp should take action imo.

    August 22, 2012 at 4:33 pm Reply
    1. Moron

      Well seeing as "hurting someones real life" would require them to post personal information, as you can just disable an e-mail, whereas you cant just change your name

      August 22, 2012 at 5:11 pm Reply
    2. Scar

      Welp . . . this guy shouldn't have been fucking stupid enough to use real info.

      August 22, 2012 at 6:25 pm Reply
  6. grunt

    wow, just wow…. FA taking a valid ingame action and making it a RL issue for the involved.

    Grow some balls and accept they beat you at playing Eve and move on.

    August 22, 2012 at 4:37 pm Reply
    1. The_Oracle86

      umm did you actually read the story?? if you did you might notice that setc threatened FA with false litigation thus this response to eve news. So who was it really that made it a real life issue?

      August 24, 2012 at 6:44 am Reply
      1. ?.?

        FA did when they spread RL emails to be spammed. FA should grow some balls and stop crying tbqh

        September 18, 2012 at 12:29 am Reply
  7. unsatisfied reader

    Meh its just a game and they butthurt the OP in a game and is resorting to RL blackmail. Some gray areas are being crossed. IMO remove the emails. Circulate to.your alliance only. Itsjust a game in the end.

    August 22, 2012 at 4:38 pm Reply
  8. Akrasjel Lanate

    They should accept the consequences of their action

    August 22, 2012 at 4:42 pm Reply
  9. skullair

    if there was a problem with getting harassing emails delete the email >_> to much sense >_>

    August 22, 2012 at 4:44 pm Reply
    1. DarthNefarius

      Just wait until these guys say they are being 'bullied' there are lawyers in athe USA which will connent this harassment to 'terrorist threats' especailly after there's been a few very publicized suicides in the US from 'internet bullying'. You scoff at that but wait until the mittens go commit suicide-gate comes in lol

      August 22, 2012 at 5:08 pm Reply
  10. herewegoagain

    fuck dude, write more next time.

    August 22, 2012 at 4:45 pm Reply
  11. Cfc grunt

    Give back what you stole lol maybe they will remove them then.

    August 22, 2012 at 4:46 pm Reply
  12. Yuoi

    He does have the right to have his data removed from the server, an email to the hosting provider will gee it along as there is case law that hosted service providers are vicariously libel. That said what moron uses their company email address for a game. FA would be better off just removing them, because service providers have a random behaviours to complaints about data held on their servers. Their terms and conditions give the draconian powers to remove content/disconnect services at their whim. It's less about the letter of the law and more about the willingness of the service provider to referee disputes. Unless FA are with a FoS host/SP it could be a random outcome.

    August 22, 2012 at 4:56 pm Reply
    1. naw

      ^^^ This is patently untrue. Just because you think it should be does not make it so. The hosting provider will lol in his face.

      August 22, 2012 at 5:04 pm Reply
      1. Yuoi

        Wait and see I guess, but having worked for hosting providers my experience is they would rather suspend the account than listen to the arguments. Because its cheaper. The fact someone is drawing the analogy between real money theft and a game, in mails that are now searchable on google gives them a apparent ligitatmate case unless someone understands eve. We will skip over the frankly bizarre assumption that someone outside the UK cannot use the DPA for something hosted in the UK. If I were these two morons I'd mail the provider pointing out I've asked for this data to be removed because it is causing significant distress and that their customer is demanding in their own admission $9000 to remove it. I'd then say if the service provider doesn't act they will be complaining to the data protection commissioner.

        If you think a provider is going referee that debate over a video game rather than just threaten to take the down the page that's good for you. Even worst if they are hosting at home they ISPs are much more brutal.

        I don't give two fucks either way. But I wouldn't be betting my site on the willingness of the host to understand eve. Eve drama, best drama.

        August 22, 2012 at 5:30 pm Reply
        1. Yuoi

          Obviously I misread the part where the host is in the US. But the point still stands that the hosts patience to debate is a larger issuer here than the law.

          August 22, 2012 at 5:58 pm Reply
        2. Scar

          " We will skip over the frankly bizarre assumption that someone outside the UK cannot use the DPA for something hosted in the UK."

          It's not hosted in the UK . . . that's what is basically the entire grounds for the argument against these two bit derps. The server is hosted in the US and these guys were trying to lie and use a UK based law against a US server.

          August 22, 2012 at 6:22 pm Reply
          1. suspect bystander

            hey duffus maybe you dont get that the us have agreed to following eu data laws for peoples data on servers in the us, kinda like the eu respects american copy right laws

            August 22, 2012 at 6:35 pm
          2. Yuoi

            As I said I misread that bit. But once again my point is the law is secondary to the willingness of the host to fuck around. If they write to the host and say 'I've asked this site to remove my data from their site because it has the potential to damage my business and they've told me to fuck off' and the host ignores it, FA don't have a problem. But if the host thinks that it'll be a pain in their arse not to act they'll ak for it to be removed. Under the T&Cs of their contract it is very likely the host can remove accounts at will.

            I don't care either way. It does seem petty that FA want to fuck these guys in the real over a game. I'd also point out the head of the CFC freaked out, quite rightly, when an in game action was attached to his real name.

            August 22, 2012 at 7:48 pm
  13. @xxxAlloxxx

    1) They mad man.

    2) Don't use a email tied to your RL name in a damn game ffs.

    3) FA is crossing some very gray lines here and I think it's just a matter of time before they get in some real RL legal trouble tbh.

    4) Jesus it's a damn game, so what you got fucking owned Zag DEAL WITH IT. 250bil is not even close to a lot of isk for FA I thought. Oh and hey didn't this not happen?

    August 22, 2012 at 5:00 pm Reply
    1. Poastin Toaster

      250 bil would help them fly battleships in the NA TZ.

      August 22, 2012 at 5:34 pm Reply
    2. BAMbam

      "3) FA is crossing some very gray lines here and I think it's just a matter of time before they get in some real RL legal trouble tbh"

      Isn't it blackmail? give us 9k or else we keep your names in the public domain?

      Haha Tards….

      August 22, 2012 at 5:54 pm Reply
      1. Not a laywer

        What you are suggesting is not extortion, not blackmail. What FA are requiring would be more aptly described as restitution (or perhaps a lien). FA are legally entitled to put their email address up there, so offering to take it down in return for the money would not violate the law. You are allowed to compromise with criminals to recover your goods. You, however, can not interfere in a criminal investigation, nor could you lie to criminal investigators.

        What was that about being a Tard?

        August 22, 2012 at 5:57 pm Reply
        1. truefacts

          Actually they have zero entitlement to anything because CCP owns everything. It could very well violate the law for someone to demand/receive payment for something they have no claim of ownership to.

          August 22, 2012 at 7:00 pm Reply
        2. BAMbam

          Wait the tard was merely a descriptive fact. Had nothing to do with the article.

          August 22, 2012 at 8:51 pm Reply
        3. Delvian

          No money was stolen, isk is not money its an in game representation of an imaginary currency that has no real value, and FA never owned a single 0.1 isk of it.

          No laws or game rules were broken when it was moved from FA to the players account. What is so hard for you to understand? FA have no legal entitlement to any kind of retaliation that falls outside of the EVE game world.

          August 22, 2012 at 11:37 pm Reply
    3. No one important

      We don't maintain a blacklist to "get even". CFC alliances maintain black lists to make it that much more difficult for people to get spies into our coalition. Sheesh.

      August 23, 2012 at 4:37 am Reply
    4. babede bupi

      Youre right, theyve been outsmarted, they should deal with it, dammit its a fucking game, if they cant handle this they should quit and get a proper real life.. FFS stop ruining someones day because ure been fisted.

      DEAL WITH IT FA

      August 23, 2012 at 8:25 am Reply
    5. buggrit

      FA got owned. The email guy ALSO got owned back. If you're going to steal, don't use real ID. FA gotta suck it up, and so does he.

      If its all a game, what is he concerned about?

      August 23, 2012 at 9:39 am Reply
      1. Common Sense

        It appears that FA IS dealing with it and doing so well within their legal power to do so. This article, on the other hand, has about as much legitimacy as the Data Protection Act of 1998 for the United States.

        August 23, 2012 at 6:00 pm Reply
  14. DarthNefarius

    Cry HAVOC and let loose the Internet Spaceship Attornies!!!
    I laugh at either side here trying to play International Lawyer…

    August 22, 2012 at 5:11 pm Reply
  15. Guest

    Taking what happened in game and throwing a fit over it out of the game is beyond pathetic.

    If these chumps caught their friend cheating at Monopoly, would they post the friend's private information online?

    You know, it wouldn't be surprising if this escalated. I guess we're gonna start publishing real names & addresses next…

    August 22, 2012 at 5:20 pm Reply
    1. Not a laywer

      Which private information are you talking about here? Their email addresses? Oh shit, I forgot all the evil things you can do with peoples EMAIL ADDRESSES!!!! Hell, he may need to cancel the address and set up a new one, god help him…

      All FA have done here is state they will not remove the email addresses the complainers submitted to the site of their own free will without being paid back the 250 billion ISK they admitted to stealing. There are no threats (other than from Fencejumper regarding legal action, however he is the one complaining about his email address being listed), there are no grey areas as others keep stating because he is quoting UK law for a person and server residing in US teritory. Guess what, UK law (which if you read the post, FA are not even breaking this) has no grounds for enforcement in the US.

      If anyone can explain the "grey areas" or how FA has done anything wrong here, without sperging lots of law crap that either they do not understand, is not related, or doesnt apply I would be impressed.

      The amound ot retardedness in the comments of this story has actually shocked me, which for EN24 is amazing.

      August 22, 2012 at 5:51 pm Reply
      1. Guest

        Hey, I'm not saying that these chumps did anyting illegal or immoral by posting some guy's email address. I'm calling them out for being cry babies because they got owned in the game.

        August 22, 2012 at 7:53 pm Reply
      2. Junglist Soljah

        Thier Legal names is the personal data, or don't you read?

        It's really not that hard to find information aboit people when you have thier legal name also the guys workplace makes it even easier.

        Surely nobody is as naive to think that you can't find out information about people easily?

        (Nothing against the blacklisting – but put RL names up there is kinda below the belt)

        August 22, 2012 at 8:11 pm Reply
        1. Blap

          Hate to tell you, your legal name does not constitute personal data in the eyes of the law. Your name is public information, as such can be used publicly… this is no different then your name appearing on a bill board or online roster sheet.

          August 22, 2012 at 8:21 pm Reply
          1. Junglist Soljah

            It does if it can be used to 'affect the individuals' privacy, whether in their personal or family life, business or professional capacity'

            August 22, 2012 at 8:51 pm
        2. No one important

          Legal Name is not considered personal information, at least in the U.S.

          August 23, 2012 at 4:37 am Reply
      3. Former INIT guy

        He is directly accusing the individual and by extension the buisness of comitting a theft of $9000 of material.

        Once you start making allegations of real property damage, the rules change, legally speaking.

        If they had kept the real world property values out, it wouldn't really matter. There may be some grey area if they used information they knew (IP addresses, and public email address) and used that to find the person's business information. I know it wouldn't be difficult to find mine even without my real name.

        September 18, 2012 at 5:37 pm Reply
    2. Scar

      Why the hell would you use your company email address for a game ? I always create a easy throw away gmail account for entertainment related shit like gaming. Guess he forgot "EVE IS REAL !!!!"

      August 22, 2012 at 6:17 pm Reply
      1. Guest

        I wouldn't use my copmany email address…but apparently this guy did. But the point is, these chumps are using out of game blackmail to affect in game events. As I said…pathetic…

        August 22, 2012 at 7:52 pm Reply
      2. Delvian

        Shouldn't matter what email you use, no one should be able to use your personal details for real life revenge attacks over fake money.

        August 22, 2012 at 11:40 pm Reply
  16. Oh boy

    I can see this going down right now:

    So you did provide that email?
    So you did take the stuff?
    So what he saying is the truth?

    Case dismissed.

    August 22, 2012 at 5:45 pm Reply
  17. DekCo Troll

    And interesting development HBC (ie Test) just bitch-slapped FA by going steady with their old girlfriend. This leaves Fagdul exactly no recourse or chance of remittance.

    August 22, 2012 at 5:47 pm Reply
  18. BAMbam

    Using RL details prolly breaks the EULA regs too, which are based on Iclandic law. Didn't something a bit similar happen with Kugu?

    August 22, 2012 at 5:51 pm Reply
    1. BAMbam

      For which he got banned?

      August 22, 2012 at 5:51 pm Reply
  19. suspect bystander

    The Data Protection Act 1998 is the UK interpretation of the EU Data Protection Directive. The US don't have anything that is quite as well drafted, and so there are issues transferring data between the UK and the US (see principle 8 of the Data Protection Act) – google searches will get all the stuff you need.

    The led to the concept of "safe harbour" or "safe harbor" (search the incorrect US spelling too!). Which are agreements whereby US organisations agree to act as safe harbours for UK personal data and to be bound by the UK (or another EU based country's) Data Protection Act. Safe Harbour is not a concept unique to DPA by the way.

    Further developments over the past 8 years or so has led to safe harbour being developed and renamed (although safe harbour is alive and well), but I'll let you do some work for yourself….

    So bitch your ass is gonna get suuuued

    August 22, 2012 at 5:59 pm Reply
  20. legal advice

    Let me give you legal advice, son,
    You keep using this term "$9k"… i dont think it means what you think it means.
    [youtube G2y8Sx4B2Sk www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2y8Sx4B2Sk youtube]
    He didnt stole $9k from you. Because he only operated in EVE and you never had any assets in EVE. Not even one buck. He transfered ISK. But the ISK is not yours, the ISK is CCP's property. Read the EULA son. The guy did not break any rules or altered "ownership" of ISK. CCP, the real owner of "ISK" has no claims do they?

    August 22, 2012 at 6:06 pm Reply
    1. DarthNefarius

      Lawyers view EULAs as toilet paper

      August 23, 2012 at 9:17 pm Reply
      1. Lol

        A Lawyer must be hard up for clients if they're chasing down a persons pretend Internet money

        August 25, 2012 at 2:00 am Reply
  21. SgtSimons

    my answerer is to sue. Im sure you could find a lawyer that is willing to do it. the guy from tribal just has to prove that his business has suffered because of these claims and he will be compensated for it. the fact that the tribal guy knowingly did it and says he did would make for an interesting trial. can what someone does in a video game be sued for because it harms them in real life.

    August 22, 2012 at 6:07 pm Reply
    1. herp_de_derp

      Who are you going to sue, CCP, the owner of the website? More importantly how stupid do you have to be to use an email address with your name in it for a game with raging egotistic assholes?

      August 22, 2012 at 6:13 pm Reply
      1. DarthNefarius

        Lawyers sue EVERYBODY with even the slightest connection in hopes that a few will settle. They will sue CCP (no matter what the EULA says ) any and all individuals and the ISPs.
        That is how the US legal system is run now.

        August 23, 2012 at 9:11 pm Reply
    2. fdsfdafda

      yo its an email, the company can easily remove the email or something like that right? I mean i bet the guy is scared shitless that if he tell his boss that he used their company email to scam the shit out of someone in the game and they have their email address on their website and that they have the change it, their boss will most like fire his fucking ass for being a fucking retard? Right?

      August 22, 2012 at 8:58 pm Reply
  22. Suzume

    I'm not sure you can equate ISK to a real monetary value without either citing RMT or making a 'just for fun' comparison to the value realized when PLEX is sold in-game (given the real monetary cost of a GTC, which is converted to PLEX). I'll re-read this EULA & TOU but I'm fairly certain that ISK and PLEX are both in-game items with no monetary value. With that in mind, is it even possible to tie a -player- to an in-game item in any monetary sense? Slippery slope detected.

    Hiring in Eve is always buyer beware. Post griefers, sure. Tell your friends who they are. Watch the character bazaar. Use the in-game mechanic and move along.

    Finally what is theft? How is it different from destruction using the terms you describe? If you had two officer-fit titans and they'd blown them up in combat (or via blue tackle) instead of stealing them would you be in a different boat?

    August 22, 2012 at 6:10 pm Reply
  23. lalalala

    hey ravioli, there is a much better story about SETC. why dont you write about the night were SETC left FA and NC. secured fencejumper during he shut down and unanchored a large POS in L-C ?

    August 22, 2012 at 6:13 pm Reply
  24. EX NC BFF Grunt

    Zag and FA still repping NC BFF ways. wolololololololololol o7o7o7o7o7o7o7o7

    August 22, 2012 at 6:15 pm Reply
  25. AlllBlueeeee

    EvE, fazes to amazes me.. lolz, can we have some more and keep us updated poor robertX.

    By the way, I used my rl email address to play eve and pay my subs, is a bad thing if I decide to go rogue, damn should have used one of my aliases.

    August 22, 2012 at 6:23 pm Reply
  26. Suzume

    Banhammers… FLY!!!!!

    August 22, 2012 at 6:36 pm Reply
  27. TESTPILOTBESTPILOT

    TEST Pilot here,

    This is great and all but this person does have protections under the law and here is where your ignorance enters into the picture. He has a business and personal stake in his information which he has said is being or could be damaged by this event which was perpetrated in a legal way in a fake game world where it was not against the rules. In terms of privacy and liability this is where you need to do more research and study into case and business law and not just Google your answers.

    While most states have privacy laws that mimic the federal government's their are also what are called privacy Torts. "A tort is a wrongful act, other than a breach of contract, that results in injury to another's person, property, reputation, or the like, and for which the injured party is entitled to
    compensation." (Random House, 2009)

    The common law concepts of privacy exist in 47 states.  Two states recognize a civil right of
    action for invasion of privacy.  New York does not have a common law right of privacy, but it
    does have a tort for appropriation of a person's name or picture without written consent that is
    also a misdemeanor.   

    Please do your research and get this man's stuff off your site before you find yourself either in a lawsuit with him or without a hosting server when the hosting service gets notice that you are keeping his data online against his will and he can show it has the potential to harm his real life business; they will pull your site down faster than hell to avoid a possible lawsuit.

    Do your research people.

    August 22, 2012 at 7:05 pm Reply
    1. TESTPILOTBESTPILOT

      Edit to this:

      The case here is that the Torts provide legal protections to him and his business. If this information can be proven to even potentially impact his business then it can fall under Business Law.

      Don't do a damn Google search about online privacy laws because there really aren't any. However since this involves a business email address and possible business personal information further identifying him and his business. This then falls under business law and he would have a means to pursue this in court via his business.

      August 22, 2012 at 7:23 pm Reply
      1. Jesus

        FA guys are really butthurt about this. I hope they disband pieces of fucking shit that they are.

        August 22, 2012 at 7:49 pm Reply
        1. No one important

          You mad at us bro? Why u so mad at us? Huh? Why?

          August 23, 2012 at 4:35 am Reply
      2. @xxxAlloxxx

        I did not know the mechanics of it but I assumed there was some sort of privacy law out there. Hence the comment about FA being in the grey area of the law. Why these things are ever brought out into RL is beyond me, it's damn space pixels guys really get a life.

        August 22, 2012 at 7:52 pm Reply
    2. Alpha

      Actually he has no legal rights to protection from any of the issues regarding the "press" from the incident because he published an article himself with details and admission even if it was published on a cheesy internet video game website. By publishing it himself he has no right to protection under and privacy laws with regards to any adverse commentary. The only way the law would protect him would be if he was physically threatened with bodily harm. By publishing the article detailing his theft from FA, legally anyone FA related or not can boycott and call for boycott of him, his business, his employer, or any other entity he is related to. The fact that he was stupid enough to not protect the other parts of his life from the backlash of some eve fame or infamy is his own fault. You absolutely cannot claim any protection under civil or criminal privacy law to protect you from backlash when you publish in any public forum information.

      August 22, 2012 at 9:41 pm Reply
      1. Neutral Observer

        Even if he published it himself, he didnt publish with his emailadress i believe.
        So FA should blacklist the ingame character name, but not his emailadress.
        Then again, what do i know about law

        August 23, 2012 at 12:53 am Reply
        1. Neutral Observer

          Also i am very curious what the miitani thinks about this, him being a retar…..ehr retired lawyer and all that

          August 23, 2012 at 12:54 am Reply
        2. No one important

          Email addresses are not considered privileged information by any law in the US.

          August 23, 2012 at 4:34 am Reply
          1. notcoolguys

            Actually in some states they are.

            Here is a statue from California www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?sec…

            And in Utah where this guy lives(it was not that hard to find) the government at least considers them PII le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE63D/htm/63D02_01020…

            Funny thing in Utah this might be criminal le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE76/htm/76_09_040400…

            I'm not a lawyer, but it look like there might be real some issues here.

            August 24, 2012 at 12:14 am
      2. theCatman

        listen up, cause apperently you cant read very well, EVE is a game, them posting shit like that with any kind of rl links to him or anything he does with the purpose of defamation is defamation….. and he does have legal right, in fact, its likely that his business has suffered as a result, which was completely the desired effect FA wanted, ive dealt with fa on many lvls, they are simply incompetent, and think they know how things work, tbh i wish i would have been the dude to take your isk, and you post my shit online, i would have hit your stupid asses with a lawsuitm so fucking fast your ship wouldnt have time to spin

        September 18, 2012 at 9:45 am Reply
  28. meh

    it's FA's best shot at conning him into giving the isk back. who cares if they delete his email from *their* blacklist now???

    August 22, 2012 at 7:07 pm Reply
  29. Master_Hyde

    TRIBE is going broke? We have always been broke!

    August 22, 2012 at 7:35 pm Reply
    1. Zaitoun Somalian

      And we're still broke! Guess we gotta kill more 4 billion isk ROL Macharials so we can drop their shiny mods in our reimbursement fund.

      August 23, 2012 at 7:33 am Reply
  30. @Ammzi1

    I like how "Tribe is going broke" implying we were ever not broke.
    Our alliance is literally 1 month and 5 days old.
    We have just ihubbed our entire region – wtf do you expect? Haha – fail news are fail.

    August 22, 2012 at 7:44 pm Reply
  31. Just Bob

    Since his current situation is “receiving harassing e-mail” which can easily be ignored by deleting the first one and blocking future mails, this does not qualify as “unwarranted and substantial damage or distress”.

    actually it does

    August 22, 2012 at 8:32 pm Reply
  32. Crelic

    Confirmed broke as fuck. Guess we'll have to start ratting on our -A- alts to pay the sov bills.

    August 22, 2012 at 8:37 pm Reply
  33. Secret FA Guy

    Lmao This just might be Game history in the making. Eve has now made in effect in RL. BEAT THAT SHIT WOW. Also wouldn't anyone do the same if they were in FAs position? c'mon dont be quick to say you wouldn't, and i'm pretty sure if this gets serious FA will just pull the email out.

    August 22, 2012 at 8:43 pm Reply
    1. Delvian

      "Also wouldn't anyone do the same if they were in FAs position?"

      NO, absolutely not.

      Basically FA are trying to ruin someones real life and out of game employment. Which could in the long run affect the guys family and the home they live in and any chance of being employed in the future. Imagine having your home repossessed or losing your family/relationship because you legally and within the game rules, stole some fake money in an online MMO, which is famed for allowing people to steal fake money.

      I always thought EVE was for intelligent, or at least, above average intelligence leveled players. FA seriously need to grow up and learn to take the rough with the smooth, honestly guys this has to be the hardest crying over isk I've ever seen.

      Pretty sure that if everyone in EVE who had ever stole isk from somewhere in game suddenly got treated like rl criminals, the server would be a very empty and dull place.

      August 22, 2012 at 11:32 pm Reply
      1. notcoolguys

        I would think that if this guy or any of the guys with thier actual email addresses and names listed were to loose a job or loose customer, loose out on a bid, due to this they woudl be entilted to sue for damages. I just don't see how you can say these gusy stole $9,000.00 from you, a felony, when the real value of that is really nothing. The average person that does not play eve won't make the connection that the quoted $9,000.00 really does not mean anything in real curreny. They will just think the guy is a thief and not do business with these gusy and possible not hire them is a potential employer sees that.

        August 23, 2012 at 12:03 am Reply
        1. Neutral Observer

          Also all isk ingame belongs to CCP.
          So actually none was stolen, but just moved from person who is keeping it for CCP.
          You cannot put isk in real money, simply because you cannot exchange it for real money.
          Well you can, but its not legal and you get permabanned for it.
          So the real money pricetag on this is BS.
          Then again, using your regular emailadres for a game is pretty stupid.
          Well its not stupid, but it is stupid to give it to a third party.
          You can just make a new one for this purpose you know.

          August 23, 2012 at 12:43 am Reply
      2. No one important

        Considering every single alliance in the CFC runs a blacklist, I think this is stretching things a bit. PL runs a blacklist as well, based on IP addresses as well as email addresses. Yet, when their forums leaked and all that was open to the world, there were no claims of "PL ruined my life!" (and rightly so — they're far better at ruining stupid supercap pilots' days).

        August 23, 2012 at 4:34 am Reply
    2. always laughahaha

      I'm down with some rotten shit in EVE, but I think the best policy is to keep it within the game. Know what I mean?

      August 23, 2012 at 3:50 am Reply
    3. Dave From FA

      in FA thats how we roll

      August 23, 2012 at 8:37 pm Reply
      1. CFC Wannabe

        what on fire? how does that have any bearing on the discussion?

        August 24, 2012 at 5:11 am Reply
  34. Heet

    There are laws for this and i will linked them so you can read for yourself. It is called cyberharassment. Plus FA knows that it is going on which they implies they condone such behavior. And Mi. does have laws against this. But I believe it will be by where the def. lives not the servers.
    www.ncsl.org/issues-research/telecom/cyber…

    August 22, 2012 at 9:18 pm Reply
  35. Who Knows

    This is not surprising coming from a coalition that has a leader trying to get his dudettes to harass another eve player into killing himself. Spais and ingame theft are part of the game . FA deal with it and move on.

    August 22, 2012 at 9:23 pm Reply
  36. Nope

    Man, FA tears are so delicious.

    August 22, 2012 at 11:56 pm Reply
    1. No one important

      I think you're mistaking SETC's tears for ours for some reason. Read the article. (Well, it's not really an article. Like most things on EN24, it's just a repost).

      August 23, 2012 at 4:36 am Reply
  37. laws are laws

    FA's website was taken down by the ISP

    August 23, 2012 at 1:37 am Reply
    1. Phey Onat

      Odd cause i'm browsing it right now

      August 23, 2012 at 2:52 am Reply
  38. OldxPlayer

    I find dealing with one life (RL) enough of a challenge than to dilute it with a made up world. Have fun kids.

    August 23, 2012 at 1:39 am Reply
  39. Some Dude

    If someone from -FA- where to replace the goods from their own pocket, they could do so by giving $9,000 to CCP. The analogy is a fair one.

    August 23, 2012 at 4:21 am Reply
  40. Stainless -10

    tl:dr I'm super butthurt and will drag your RL name through the mud because we are shit with internal security.

    August 23, 2012 at 4:21 am Reply
  41. Random Miner

    anyone else greatly annoyed by the constant quoting of "$9000"? No it wasn't, it was play money in a game. And this game leaves openings for terrible things to happen, that's what makes it so cool to play. Leave RL out of this shit, drop the dollar value, and make some more play money. The end

    August 23, 2012 at 6:23 am Reply
    1. ~deal with it~

      agreed

      August 23, 2012 at 10:08 am Reply
  42. really

    So, their site goes down for a while today, comes back up and it appears the web server is no longer based in Michigan but has been moved to Canada. I wonder why.

    August 23, 2012 at 7:26 am Reply
    1. Yuoi

      I think there was a buy a hosting package and get a life times supply of maple syrup offer.

      August 23, 2012 at 9:53 am Reply
  43. Zaitoun Somalian

    Here's the interesting part of all of this. If FA decides to threaten these individual's livelihood and demand the 250 billion isk back or else, then these individuals may have to actually spend their own RL currency in order to buy plex in order to do so. This is blackmail which is illegal. Here's the twist. Since CCP owns the isk as part of the EULA, they can be held complicit if these guys from Tribal decide they have to spend RL currency in order to pay off FA. CCP will be the ones that actually benefit monetarily. FA will just get some space pixels back. CCP will have to prove in the long run that they don't check EVE NEWS 24. And if the SETC guys petition CCP, then there ya go. It's on record that CCP was aware. So, whatya going to do CCP?

    August 23, 2012 at 7:52 am Reply
  44. Lord Lucan

    FA are pathetic , ffs it's only a game…..

    August 23, 2012 at 7:13 pm Reply
  45. madhouse

    Usual Drama Lamas up north again, Zagdul trying to wiggle out of another situation (similar to how he tried getting back Cloud Ring when Black-Mark handed it over to -A-) lol.

    FailCascade clock still counting down for FA…

    August 23, 2012 at 7:16 pm Reply
  46. The_Oracle86

    lol funny story. Do the crime do the time fags. Besides he is right, emails were given for security reasons. Security was broken therefore the blacklisting. It's not FA's fault SETC are as dumb as shit and use rl emails tied to their own business's. Nut Up or Shut Up.

    August 24, 2012 at 6:40 am Reply
  47. Hmm

    Good luck getting an solicitor in the uk to take up this case! Here in the uk we don't believe in suing for every little thing! Also this is purely sour grapes because this guy 'stole' and didn't fully think through the potential implications. The official looking email he sent is so full of holes I'd be surprised if he's any more than an emo teenager.

    August 26, 2012 at 2:00 am Reply
  48. internet law

    where's The Honorary Judge Ed Lolington when you need him to settle this kinda stuff

    September 18, 2012 at 5:55 am Reply
  49. BDEALER

    Thank you EN24 for removing the emails since your not a dbag like fa For some reason, this reminds me of Spartan512 and stealing BDEAL API information a while ago…

    September 18, 2012 at 2:33 pm Reply
  50. Zentar

    let me see if I've got this translated right…

    "You beat us at the game. But we're not evil! We're just gonna try and hurt your proffesional life to possibly cause financial problems, which in turn, considering the current state of the economy, might ruin your life. Because you beat us at EVE. But we're not evil!"

    This guy shouldn't have used his real name, though.

    September 19, 2012 at 1:16 pm Reply
  51. asdf

    much chest-thumping here

    August 22, 2012 at 9:06 pm Reply
  52. PLSPY in AAA

    You poor morons.. Test moved in next door to -A- FOR a forever war. You know -A- is going to be roaming all over your shit killing your members your 'friends' who pay you isk to live their (No renters in CFC lol) and hitting your timers in Delve till the servers die right ? RIght!?

    LOL -a- trying to beat there chest. Who lost 15 supers the other week

    August 22, 2012 at 9:44 pm Reply

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