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Kirith Kodachi: Looking Into The Crystal Ball – Tiericide to Cruisers and Beyond

The ship overhaul that is going on right now (calling it a balancing is a vast understatement) is doing more to revitalized low sec PvP than anything I’ve seen in a while with the notable exception of the Ancillary Shield Boosters.

Whereas before you could count on one hand the number of combat frigates you could expect to face (mostly Rifters, a few Merlins and Incursi, a few faction frigs), the spread of types is much larger and now is starting to include things like Tormentors, Condors, Atrons, etc. The excitement for the changes to the Kestrel, Tristan, and Breacher is palpable. With dev posts highlighting how the remaining frigates are going to be specialized for logistics and exploration with improved capabilities, we can finally see how the line up of frigates for each race will fall out.

- Two main combat frigs with each one highlighting a different aspect of the factions combat philosophy : Merlin(hybrids)/Kestrel(missiles), Punisher(lasers and tank)/Tormentor(lasers and cap usage), Incursus(hybrids)/Tristan(drones), Rifter(projectiles)/Breacher(missiles)

- Attack frigate with bonus to tackling : Condor, Atron, Executioner, Slasher

- Exploration frigate with bonuses to exploration mods like salvagers, code breakers, and analyzers : Heron, Probe, Magnate, Imicus

- Electronic attack frigates with bonuses to the racial ewar : Griffin (ECM), Crucifer (tracking disruptors), Maulus (sensor damps), Vigil (target painters)

- Logistics Frigate with bonus to racial repair mods : Bantam (shields), Navitas (armour), Inquisitor (armour), Burst (sheilds)

With these changes we get and idea for how the tiericide is being performed: more mod slots and fitting for previously low tiers ships, role bonuses to specialize them, and in some cases complete role reversals (such as the mining frigs becoming logi frigs). This gives us some ability to speculate what tiericide to the cruisers, battlecruisers and battleships will look like.

Cruisers

If any set of tech I ships was setup with specialization in mind over tiers, it was the cruisers. Each race has four cruisers and they are broken into two combat ships, one logistics ship, and one electronic warfare ship. I suspect the tiericide will simply look like giving the lower tier ships a bit more fitting in terms of slots and power grid and CPU to allow more variation, and the combat ships will be balanced to some of the less popular ones more desirable like they did/are doing with the combat frigates.

Battlecruisers

Overall the three battlecruisers of each race are pretty well balanced, with each one bringing something different to the table for each faction. The Cyclone is the active tanker compared to the Hurricane ganker; the Brutix is a blaster boat to the Myrmidon drones; Ferox hybrids to Drake missiles. For the Amarr, the Prophecy and Harbinger both are laser ships so there might be some bonus changes there along with some module and fitting changes that I expect all of the tier 1 battlecruisers to receive. The tier 3 battlecruiser being very new already have a very defined role and balance so I don’t think we’ll see any changes to them.

Battleships

Ah, here we get to the class that could potentially experience the most overhaul. For one thing, there is a huge step in capabilities (modules, fitting stats, damage potential, tanking potential, and price) between tier 1 and tier 2 and then again to tier 3 battleships. Also, there is a lot of role overlap. Take for example the Amarr where all three battleships are laser combat ships. To be fair, for battleships the issues are primarily tank versus damage versus range but with true sniping battleship fleets a rarity these days, and many ships able to take on the sniping role with a few tracking computers/enhancers, we may want to explore vastly different roles and designs for the ships.

Yeah, I’m going out on a limb here and putting on my game designer hat, but I can do what I want: that’s what blogs are for.

The first question is if we want to introduce true roles to the battleship line. The Scorpion is a huge outlier in the 12 ships in that it has bonuses to the racial electronic warfare modules. I think this should be expanded into the other three factions.

The next question is if we want to have two combat ships, one exemplifying the two combat philosophies of each race, or if we want to have one better suited to short ranged combat and one better for long range combat, or even if we want to get radical and have one combat ship and one logistics/exploration combat ship. Personally I think a combination of the first two suggestions is highly likely to mirror the other smaller ship classes, but I’m hoping CCP is thinking about adding a fourth battleship to fill the large logistics hole between cruiser and carrier.

With the Scorpion as the starting point, I figure the other three electronic warfare battleships will be the:

- Dominix : losing hybrid capabilities but retaining drone bonuses and getting remote sensor damper bonuses and another mid slot or two, maybe losing a low or high slot in exchange
- Armageddon : losing all laser bonuses and getting a drone bonus, bigger drone bay, and a tracking disruptor bonus or two
- Typhoon : losing the missile bonus and getting a target painter bonus or two.

I also expect all three ships to get improvements to move the out of the tier 1 ghetto: more fitting, extra slots.

For the two combat ships, the Rokh and the Raven provide nice models to work off of: one combat ship for each weapon philosophy. Also the first combat ship would represent tank and gank, while the second would represent gank and range.

For the Tank and Gankers the Rokh, Maelstrom, Hyperion and Abaddon all work really well in various situation and need very little changes. I would probably consider changing the bonus on the Rokh from range to damage so that it at least can match the Naga battlecruiser, but it is livable with the optimal range bonus.

For the Gank and Range role, a few changes are required to make them workable and distinct from the other combat ships. I would change the:

- Tempest to a missile ship (and I know a thousand Minmatar pilots just grabbed their weapons to come find me) and both it and the Raven would get damage/rate of fire bonuses to missiles and a velocity bonus.
- Apocalypse more capacitor and change its cap use bonus for lasers into a damage bonus.
- Megathron I would consider exchanging its tracking bonus for an optimal range bonus but since this type of bonus is non-existent for other Gallente ships I would consider leaving it alone but I would drop the drone bandwidth to 100 or 75 mbit/sec.

I just re-read that paragraph, and it strikes me as pretty silly to suggest totally revamping the Tempest while only toying with the Mega. So let’s propose that the Mega gets totally revamped as a drone boat with capabilities like the current Dominix and take the new ewar Dominix and downgrade its drone abilities. Yeah, that is much more inline with my overall tiericide ideas even if it will make a lot of Gallente pilots unhappy.

* * * * *

So those are my combined predictions and suggestions, predictions for the cruisers and battlecruisers, and ship design suggestions for the battleships.

- Kirith Kodachi

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  • lol

    Phoon will be a torp boat

    • zzz

      yeah i read that somewhere, stated by a dev, while nothing is set in stone.

  • Dino

    The Megathron is the hull for the kronos and vindicator, They can't make it a drone boat. The one Gallente ship that need love and new purpose is the Hyperion imho.

    • Corteztk

      Agreed the hyperion is by far the worst tier 3 battleship. Needs revamping badly.

      • get your stats right

        hyperion isnt the worst tier3 bs , its about as powerfull as a maelstrom in smallscale/solo pvp if youre doing it righ (and it goes for both tank and dps)

        • M1k3y

          Yes but its quite underused in comparison to the Megathron and Maelstrom.

          • Always laughahaha

            And?

          • durky

            "And?"

            And its never used, cause it sucks, sorry you fell for that troll above about how the Hyperion can hang with other ships. I would recommend trying things out first, so you don't fall for future trolls.

        • The Observer

          Not really. With the new ASBs, the Maelstrom got a HUGE indeirect buff. You can fit a couple of those on a Maelstrom, and it will be one the the better Solo pvp battleships around. Plenty of tank, and GREAT dps.

          The Hyperion has no such module, relying on cap and a ton of cap boosters (granted, it has plenty of midslots for 2, but you need to downgrade to electrons.) So perhaps the only thing the Hype needs is a boost to powergrid?

  • Gun

    Less e-war and not more please. Get rid of it on the Scorp and give it anything else.
    Move the Hype to tier 3 to replace the Domi. Noobs need the rep bonus and almost never have the proper drone skills to fly the Domi. Move the Mega to tier 3 and just adjust it's pg and cpu to be similar to the others. Then, FINALY, you'll start to see it show up in null fights.
    I'd nerf e-war off the t1 cruisers to and swap it for a combination exploration/scanning bonus. Would be alot more usefull for pve and more robust combat scanners than cov ops.

    • Random Person

      It seems you just dislike ewar and want it removed. That would reduce the options in fights and overall make things less enjoyable.

      Noobs don't need a rep bonus on a domi. Give the domi good bonuses of whatever sort it is going to have. An ewar domi would be a very interesting role particularly with sensor damps and drone dps. Those two go well together and having battleship sized ewar would be healthy for EVE as it adds a facet to pvp that is under implemented currently.

    • buggrit

      Fear of ewar = F1 pilot

  • Just Bob

    nice try?
    take the dev hat off.

  • Coldheart

    Changes posted for almost every ship are retarded

  • HOLE PUNCH

    Can we make Tier 3 Battleships Transformers with mini Doomsday or a fucking star blazer
    "zero fucks given" weapon to cleanse the infidels from the low sec Holy land!

    • HOLE PUNCH

      Pretty please!

  • M1k3y

    "Tempest to a missile ship"

    No

    "- Typhoon : losing the missile bonus"

    No.

    Take the Typhoon's gun bonus, give it the painter bonus.

    Leave the Tempest's bonuses alone since, as you yourself said: "I know a thousand Minmatar pilots just grabbed their weapons to come find me"

    • asdf

      Obviously this blogger has never flown a nanopest before. Maelstrom works better at range, tempest works better close up. Don't fix what ain't broke.

      • The Observer

        against hard targets (like caps and structures) the Phoon actually works better (1100 DPS torp boat w/ neuts anyone?)

        Otherwise, yes. The pest is the king of surprise buettsecks

    • aiming at you kirith

      please don't touch the pest, its fine the way it is , fuck with the phoon all you want , please.

    • Read the MoM from CSM

      Typhoon will become a dedicated Torpedo ship with TP bonus so your partly right on that ship.
      I don't know if that will make the ship more useful for PVE but for PVP the ship was pretty decent before.
      I can't see how a 30Km range in pve is good you have to fit a MWD to your ship to be able to use it and i doubt you got enough cap/ grid to fit both hungry torp lunchers and a MWD and still have a good tank for PVE. Not to mention the horrific Exp radius on Torps. perhaps 2-3 TP will do the trick all depends on the bonus of the ship.
      Im just hoping the Typhoon will keep its extensive dronebay and they just remove the guns and raise the CPU/PG since its balanced around some of the highslots was guns.

      • Anon

        Add +10% per level for torp missile speed and we're cookin'.

    • Random Guy

      take typhoon's missile bonuses, and give it web bonuses instead. like webrange. those damn torps are useless, the AC phoon is a great solo ship.

  • droljica

    Himmler/hilmar must be on some drugs or what ?!?!

    • Jack

      It's just some scrub if you wasted time reading that…

  • Gumpin

    Apocalypse more capacitor and change its cap use bonus for lasers into a damage bonus.

    Name mw one subcap with more raw capacitor than an apoc.

    • The Observer

      Bhaalgorn?

      • Gumpin

        Its equal, even the recharge.

        Billion isk + faction battleship though vs tech 1 mid tier :P

        Thats a lot of damn cap.
        Fun fact: with large reppers and cap recharge fit its better than a guardian if you stay in range for armor reps.

  • Bagehi

    "but with true sniping battleship fleets a rarity these days"

    I'm sorry, what? Have you seen all the Rokhs being flown? It is the most popular battleship in null right now. Bar none. They most definitely have rails fit and most definitely are engaging beyond 100km when they have the ability to dictate range. Tier 3 BCs are getting a good workout, but they aren't a main battle ship.

    • herp_de_derp

      Yea, not to mention the prime engagement range for most CFC doctrines is 70KM, albeit not sniping but certainly not close range.

    • The Observer

      Just to be clear the Rokhs, which are indeed rail fitted, are in no way fitted like a sniping battleship. Nagas (who have similar bonuses to Rokhs) can engage effectively up from 110+ KM out with little to no drop in DPS from falloff. The Rokh that's being used is for great tank, rate of fire, and (if you can beleive it) alpha. It's MAXIMUM effective range with navy antimatter is about 90+km (javelin @ 60km, Spike @ 249km). When compared to the naga, it's range with antimatter is about 110, Javelin @ ~80km, and Spike @ well beyond any range you can lock at.

      Note: This is according to how the ships are being fitted in actual fleet fights, not how random PVPers fit them (and no one uses snipe Rokhs anymore when a Naga gets the job done better.)

      • rokhs too good?

        tbh Rokh has almost too good tank + range + dmg combo at the moment. Name me any other ship that can fire 100+km without sacrificing tank.

        Going over that range is pretty useless with too fast and easy probing since probing change ages ago.

        And dont even mention trying to get under guns when rokhs have couple dozen support hugins making anything coming under 100km crawl slower than snails and painting them big enough to hit them.

        In any case rokhs rule mid range at the moment.

  • TripleManny

    HURF BLURF
    You do realise that you are bad and you should feel bad
    Amageddon ewar boat
    Ewar boat
    Ewar

    • buggrit

      Another F1 pilot afraid of ewar

      • Always laughahaha

        Yeah, because elite solo pilots love ewar…

    • The Observer

      I don't think he understands how awesome the geddon is for pvp. I'd rather fly a geddon than a Rokh (or any other caldari ship) any day.

  • Mr_Gr3y

    Dominix: Keep drone bonuses remove hybrid buff add Ewar…

    Mega: Make drone boat…

    Wut?

    You do understand that the only blaster platform we'd have is the Hyperion, which is basically just an expensive Megathron…

    If you don't know much about certain races or ships just admit it, no point trying to cover it up.

    • Always laughahaha

      Yeah, this asshole wants to ruin battleships.

  • Crazy Idea Guy

    I like the idea of a BS Logi. I feel that, and you need to read the rest not just the following word, AOE Logistics would be a great addition. AOE is madness you say, but let us say this: let it take CPU/PG like a Large repper and Cap per Second like a Large repper, but make it rep at half (quarter?) speed and give HP like a medium (small?) rep. Then decide what a good radius is, 12km? 24km? and bam, something that won't be over-powdered in keeping a primary target up (reps too small and slow) but will combat annoyance bombing and maybe useful for fixing drones. The BS hull will have a hard time keeping up with speed fleets (especially trying to have any cap with a MWD) but in a BS fleet (where bombs are most deadly) it will help the fleet recover after the bombs.

  • lowrads

    I like the attack frigate changes, but I regret the loss of distinction amongst the different groups.

    If the bonuses to active tanking were simply extended to remote reps, those hulls would be viable middle size fleet ships. Ships like the cyclone, myrmidon, and hyperion would gain new reputations outside of solo combat without affecting their current abilities significantly. It would certain make for an interesting dynamic for the incursus pilots since they fight in facemelt range anyhow. They wouldn't overlap with the dedicated logi role because of the extremely short range.

    • finaly a good idea

      now that is a great idea
      not only does it promote playing with a friend with thoes ships
      its a great bonus to PVP also spidertanking Alpha Maelstroms tho *shrugg* that would be something for the eyes to soar at.

  • dicks

    Remove active tanking bonuses from Hyperion and Maelstrom, it's clearly one of the more useless bonuses out there for how the ships are fielded.

    • ???

      Now your thinking as a Nullsec pilot

      Im pretty sure Maelstrom is used for mission running also where a active tanking bonus is GREAT. not to mention smallscale PVP where a Mael with dual XL Ancillary SB is one of the more anyoing thing to encounter.

      and just because a fleet doctrin decides to use ALPHA MAEL and wine over the active tanking slot beeing unusefull well then shift to Tempest and put neuts on the other two highslots

      • https://www.facebook.com/david.m.grogan David Grogan

        most serious mission runners use maruaders or faction battleships such as the cnr, navy scorp, rattlesnake, nightmare, or macharial. which are far superior at active tanking than a standard battleship

        so swaping the active tank bonus to a new bonus would be better on t1 battleships

        • 0.o Grunt

          that is not true, the maelstrom currently have a greater active tank then a macharial. Equal gear will show you that.

          • zzz

            the mach tanks by burning down bs rats fast you moron

  • crazy hun

    The armageddon is a good spidertanking bs in lowsec a fastkilling ship doctrine in null and a good sniping ship in pve. And you want to change them to a tracking disrupting drone boat?! :D

    [youtube AGLhBC9Q3F4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGLhBC9Q3F4 youtube]

  • https://www.facebook.com/Clandestinemonkey Nick Ashley

    Why are you guys all responding to this guy like he has any say in the development of these ships? He's just another tard speculating.

    • Radamoses

      Speculating, pilots do this in eve do this daily, and we enjoy it. You seem like you dont know wtf your speculating about tardstick..

  • evewide

    Terrible ideas. Along the lines of your proposals we may as well merge all races into one and remove any variety between them. Cross train if you want variety.

  • NRDS guy

    true.. battleships need tracking disruptors to kite other 1 vs 1 BS fights that we see a lot xD

  • lol

    Do these bloggers ever actually play this game or fly the ships???? Some of these changes sound like its coming from some high sec care bear that doesn't no how to play the game and all he does is level 4 missions…..or is mint chip.

  • Pale Blue Dot

    Wow, your idea would absolutely ruin the Dominix, upsetting PVPers and PVEers alike.

    Next thing you'll be telling us you want to make it pretty.

  • zzz

    i do agree with that fact that the scorpion is an outlier, that it is the only t1 ewar battleship, but is that even a "problem" to begin with?
    some day it may serve as a perfect excuse for a tier 4 bs or whatever yay we all love new ships

  • Suzume

    These ships aren't supposed to be different-shaped cookie-cut hulls. They have their own roles even if you can't imagine them.

    Leave the domi alone. Shame on you. One of the most useful multi-tool-knife ships in game.

    I'd like to see the phoon and geddy maybe better able to either brawl OR deal with the tier iiis. A reduction in mass factor to agility would be just nuts on the armageddon and I think open lots of doors for that hull.

  • Anon

    Actually, I like the idea of a sensor dampening/drone dmg bonus domi. It would fit rather well. The geddon would make a decent ewar boat if you dropped the dmg bonus, added the tracking disruptor bonus, added a mid or two and dropped one low. For the phoon, I would give it a TP bonus and missile speed bonus. Slots layouts are mostly ok. Maybe an additional missile launcher… or two… Maybe an additional mid.

  • John Douche

    Terrible article. It belongs into the forums and not on a news page!

    CCP isn't rearranging the furniture or trying to win a cosmetics contest. CCP is redefining roles for those ships whose roles have become obsolete or that are unpopular. They did not change the Rifter or the Hulk but left them. The barges changes were radical, because nobody cared for most of them and so it had to be radical. The same is true for many of the frigates as these were useless in PvP. Ships like the Dominix enjoy a good amount of popularity so you can be sure that CCP will not change anything about them besides maybe some very minor adjustments in their basic attributes. I suggest you first try to understand why CCP is making these changes. It is not about making everything into trendy roles and to role out the "winter collection of EVE". They want to bring the unpopular ships back and because nerfing individual ships (to make them unpopular instead) is only bad.

  • bestshot

    take away typhoon's missile bonus, give it tp bonus, ruin the tempest by changing to a missile boat, wtf? did you even read what you are writing? please go give yourself a swirly to clear your head, and 1000 minnie pilots wanting to blow ur shit away is a vast understatement, you should apologize for your stupid, stupid idea, however, I like the bs logi idea, only if added as a completely new ship, minmatar "Blizzard" ,etc

  • Zor

    —————————-
    – Dominix : losing hybrid capabilities but retaining drone bonuses and getting remote sensor damper bonuses and another mid slot or two, maybe losing a low or high slot in exchange
    – Armageddon : losing all laser bonuses and getting a drone bonus, bigger drone bay, and a tracking disruptor bonus or two
    – Typhoon : losing the missile bonus and getting a target painter bonus or two.
    —————————-
    THose suggestions are horrible and you should feel bad.

  • macro

    Thempest a missle Ship!? You you can bet your ass that mimatar grap all there acs and arty to search your ass

  • zzz

    what the shit