Amarr Rookie ships: Intended consequences?

With the Rookie ship changes came an unannounced and radical change, but only for Amarr players. Before the patch, one of the most common uses for Rookie ships was as a cyno boat. People traded tank and versatility for the ability to light a cyno as cheaply as possible. In order to do this you required Cyno IV as the cargo hold of the Rookie ships could only hold a maximum of 300 liquid ozone. With the patch, that has changed and the change appears to be intentional.

[QUOTE FROM CCP Fozzie ]
When it comes down to it, cyno lighting on rookie frigates is an activity that we don’t explicitly design for. We have no problem with people doing it but we will not guarantee that all the design decisions we make will support it.

In this case we built the rookie frigates to highlight the differences in the races’ ship design philosophies, by making the rookie frigates a scaled down version of the kind of stat progressions you’ll run into at higher tiers. Amarr ships tend to have slightly smaller cargoholds than other races since they don’t need the space for ammo.

In the end we gave all the rookie ships (including the Impairor) a significant buff to cyno lighting since they no longer need MAPCs.

The buff to that specific use was not intentional but it was something we knew would be happening and we were fine with it. The Impairor got slightly less of a buff for cyno lighting than the others, but once again I consider that fine since lighting cynos isn’t a core use for the ship.

In the end my advice is to stock some expanded cargoholds with your cyno gens and celebrate that you no longer need the more expensive MAPCs.

The only place that this change was mentioned was response #241 on page 13 on the EVE-O forums. It was not in the Dev blog and the response from Fozzie seems to indicate that not only was CCP aware of the problem, that it was intentional. It seems like a minor change but it puts amarr players at a significant disadvantage which they will be unable to overcome without bio-massing their current pilots and re-rolling from scratch.

Losing cyno ships is just part of the game and it happens quite often. You log back in your cyno account and you are in a pod. Most capital pilots have stockpiled generators and ozone at their jump locations as well as the Micro Auxillary Power Cores that were required before the patch. If you are an Amarr pilot, you will now have to slow boat through hostile gates in order to get an expanded cargo hold so that you can fit the required 300 ozone. If you are not Amarr, you will just have to dock up to receive a shiny new cyno ship which is ready to go.

The rest of the rookie ships all received a massive buff to cynoing. The increased power grid means that you no longer require a micro aux power core in order to fit the cyno and it still holds the fuel required to light the cyno at cyno IV. In order to light a cyno with the Impairor, a pilot would now require cyno V. That has a whole bunch of implications for cyno alts. It increases the SP of the pilot beyond 900k which means that you will need to upgrade its clone on every pod jump and you will only be able to safely jump to stations with medical facilities unlike the other races.

So if you are thinking of starting an alt account and you intend to use it for a cyno, do not choose Amarr. I would love to know why CCP felt this change wasn’t worth mentioning considering how wide the implications are.

- Matt

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  • Uhh idiots again

    Duh… tempest in a teacup, dude? I've got 8 cyno alts, 3 of which are Amarr, and I never considered this to be a big deal.

    • NullSecHoBo

      Seriously.. this kinda whine is beyond lame.

      • Random CFC Grunt

        Most of them are.

  • Herp

    Consdering a cyno gen costs about 1.6mil, is it really a big deal to just buy an actual frigate? Christ, if this is the biggest of your eve problems, consider yourself lucky.

    • Matalok

      Its more about portability. Moving frigs into a poor market area can be a pain, This way you only need to worry about the fits which are relatively easy to move around.

      • Uhh idiots again

        Previously: MAPC = 20 m2
        Now: Cargo expander = 5 m2
        ————
        Portability: increased.
        Price: decreased.
        Why whine?

  • John Douche

    You are whining about it? Then I suggest to disallow cynoing from cheap ships altogether. There, now you can whine some more. *lol*

    • Jesus loves you

      I'm fine with that – that levels the playing field for the 4 different races. Its not about the hassle (heck, its the same as before, might even be slightly easier now), its about CCP for some odd reason deciding that the amarr rookie ships must suck more than the others.

      :CCP:

  • "If you are an Amarr pilot, you will now have to slow boat through hostile gates in order to get an expanded cargo hold so that you can fit the required 300 ozone."

    … and where are you getting that ozone from? People who have cyno alts usually have them because they need them for logistics. Jump the ec in with the ozone when you jump your carrier. It's better than having to bring in frigs and mapcs. It shouldn't be that difficult to figure out.

  • xor

    I found CCPs reasoning sufficient enough, no need to warrant an extensive whine and I'm amazed this even got published, theres been more than enough whining about it on the forums already.

    • Word King

      People seriously whine about this stuff at forums? Sheesh

  • Gsy

    So this thread is all about needing or not needing a cargo expander then, please tell me if i am wrong?

    • Word Boy

      Yes. Less MAPCs, more cargo expanders.

      Due to the lack of any issue here, my bet is that OP is a troll. And all these guys who write here are feeding the troll.

  • iXenos

    What "MAPCs" means?

    Thank You

    • Uhh idiots again

      Don't you worry about MAPCs, you don't need them anymore for noob ship cynos.

      • iXenos

        Micro Auxillary Power Cores
        heh =)

        I didn't have the time to read the whole article ( You know how it's like at work ).
        Now i've finished and got my answer.
        ^_^

  • shiwaz

    Quotes: "celebrate that you no longer need the more expensive MAPCs." which in some odd way seems to "put amarr players at a significant disadvantage which they will be unable to overcome"

    Do you even see yourself typing this bs???

  • ANRGY MAN

    BUFF AMARR NOOB SHIPS
    NO-ONE WANTS TO ROLL AN AMARR CHAR ANYMORE BCUZ OF NOOB SHIP CARGO HOLD

  • Zka

    This game is full of inconvenience and pointless timesinks, yet you manage to whine about THIS? Seriously?

  • Jesus loves you

    I have cyno pilots of all races and I'm currently contemplating rerolling my amarr chars.

    Why? Because of the OP. Its fucking retarded. Before all n00b ships were alike.

    Now the amarr n00b ship is inferior to the others. What gives?

    Typically CCP to be honest.

    • CFC Plot Foiler

      Use a punisher you pansy.

      • anonymous

        Magnate FTW…holds 800 units of ozone with no expanders and they're cheap.

  • Jesus loves you

    I have cyno pilots of all races and I'm currently contemplating rerolling my amarr chars.

  • wokyr

    did this really needed a topic for itself ?
    it's like lots of news were posted quickly so that people don't go look somewhere else…

    • http://twitter.com/Thornbark @Thornbark

      yes, this realy needed a topic for itself

  • No one important

    Or…you could just buy a frigate. Are you seriously crying that Amarr cyno pilots now have a higher minimum cost than other races? By, what? 500K ISK? Maybe 1M ISK?

    I made more ISK than that in the time it took me to write this horrible response.

    • http://twitter.com/swearte @swearte

      Next time you are in Stain and you need to "just buy a frigate" for a cyno let me know how that goes for you. Not that finding a MAPC was easier, but you seem to have no real understanding of this issue and how it affects gameplay for thousands of others.

      • John Douche

        Remove rookie ship spawning from 0.0 and only allow it in low-sec at stations where one has some standings. It will help players to grow a pair.

      • Deos

        Literally everything you can cyno in with exception to a dread can carry you in a replacement frigate.

        This isn't hard. You're just whining because you're mildly inconvenienced.

        • PHA grunt

          I think a dread should be able to bring some cargo expander i's for the impairor-cyno as well ;)

      • Jesus

        Oh please what a cry baby bitch

    • Anon

      The point is you get a rookie ship once you redock, no purchase necessary.

    • Fan of EvE not CCP

      Its about availability. You cyno gets popped [again] in that 0.0. NPC spacemid-way jump and you finally have no cyno ships in stock. Local market is sparse as expected.
      Options:
      -Do it in an Amarr Noob-ship – cause they are always in stock :P
      -Your capital have to repeatedly restock the cyno – which means less stuff get hauled or moved.

      I know what I prefer!

  • neutral observer

    In other news: the megathron navy issue can dish out more dps then the apoc navy issue!
    This ofcourse is an outrage and ccp should fix this.
    Now i think of it, ccp should only let people fly in one race, to make everything fair and stop the crying.
    Preferably one shiptype, so nobody gets to cry anymore.
    Also only 1 type of module in the highs,mids and lows.

    Whining over noobships is retarded, just spend some isk on a cyno ship, its not that it will bankrupt you, you cheap bastard!

    • Ex-NC Grunt

      Only one single mid slot, no other slots! tyvm

    • Goonie

      You can skill another race. You can't change the noobship you get.

  • Titus Veridius

    I just paid 20m for two cyno mods in Venal so Bad Legion could RF a Goon tech moon. Elo told me to stop being a little girl cause he once paid 360m for a cyno kestrel. Blah blah complaints blah.

    • masty

      Stop being a nonce tits

  • _Bob

    The Amarr dont have room for fuel because their cargobay is stuffed full of slaves

    • Carl Sagan

      Karma is a bitch

  • unsatisfied reader

    Attention Amarr pilots, just point out the spot on this doll where CCP touched you.

  • Space troll

    Rookie ship used as cyno bait,DO YOU EVEN FUCKING PLAY THIS GAME???

    • ANRGY MAN

      Lol

  • hurrr

    "If you are an Amarr pilot, you will now have to slow boat through hostile gates in order to get an expanded cargo hold so that you can fit the required 300 ozone. If you are not Amarr, you will just have to dock up to receive a shiny new cyno ship which is ready to go."

    …wait, all rookie ships now come with Cynos pre-equipped? :goes back to read patch notes:

  • Gypsy Cyno

    Holy jesus balls….I just read an article whining about rookie ship cargo space. I think that pretty much wraps up my 'things to accomplish in Eve' list.

    Also I love how the whining comes from the same dumb asses that claim to live by HTFU.

  • Kittens

    Must be a slow news day at EVE 24.

  • hello

    wow, so before the patch/fix cyno pilots had to bring all there crap to one station..fuel mapc's, extra cynos, whatever. So noob shps get buffed, and lets see you still need cynos to use..u still need fuel..which means u still have to stock..oh snap but amar cynos now have to bring expanded cargo units as well.. Fk me the worlds going to end , eve is doomed..

    Seriously do some of u people actually read or think about what you are writing. YOU have to make a stocking trip anyways whats one more friggin item? Its not a big friggin deal and certainly not news worthy.

    Unless they have some new rookie ship that insta cynos with no fuel or cyno units nothing has really changed in the cyno alt process except the addition of one item for amar ships.

  • CareBearStares

    Or.. just make a trial account non-amarr pilot and rinse-repeat kill him/her and just window trade the noob ships over to the current cyno pilot you're skilled up in?

    • masterochi

      Using a trial account for personal gain? Isn't that cheating, really??

      What's next, using out of game resources to defeat the mysteries of the game??

      What did we call such "walkthroughs" when they were one player games?

      Oh yeah, "Cheats."

      • CareBearStares

        Surely. Personally I use frigs for my cynos.. someone apparently had an issue with noob ships of all things. i was just trying to be productive.

        Would it be cheating if you used one of the non-used pilot slots on one of your accounts? Like, I said.. I use cheep frigs instead… just saying.

  • masterochi

    Frankly, if you have trained a character of any race other than Caldari, you should biocycle immediately and create a Caldari character.

    All races are inferior to Caldari and they have the best rewards, the best ships, the most versatile ammo and the best trade hub.

    Fly Caldari or go home
    .

    • Linda Rosing

      You sir couldn't be more wrong.

      Granted we use the Drake in PVP a ton but that being said drakes are:
      a) Slow!
      b) Have a sig the size of Mount Everest.
      c) Terrible DPS

      In the case of the battleships, well they're equally if not more awful.

      I would argue that minmatar are the most versatile while Gallente have some ridiculous damage (see hyperion, megathron, astarte, and my personal favorite, the vindicator.

  • Fan of EvE not CCP

    Weeeeeh-weeeeh-wheeeeh!

    I want a -I WIN BUTTON-

    Weeeh-weeeh!

  • http://kerryd.com Amarr suxs

    I have (currently) 9 cyno alts with clones scattered across 28 systems (some duplicated). I am forever bringing extra ships/cyno gens/fuel to the various systems I am currently using. Now I don't have to move those extra ships but waaaaaaa, I may have to carry some expanded cargo holds instead (lets see, 1 packaged frig – 2,500m3. 1 e.c. = 5 m3). So I could carry 500 expanded cargo hold mods in the place of 1 ship, and not have to buy (and transport) more expensive MAPCs ? WAAAAAAAAAAA !!!!!

    (Sure glad all those cyno alts, every single one of them, is Gallente/Caldari/Minmatar. Not a single Amarr pilot on any of my accounts. Just a coincidence of course.)