A few hours ago, a reddit in which a player claims for a CSM7 member to repeatedly use an exploit came to our attention.
Hans Jagerblitzen – CSM7 Delegate… and Exploiter?
Here is the quote:
For the last few months there has been an exploit regarding acceleration gates, which are plentiful in faction warfare. If you are exiting warp, select the acceleration gate on your overview, go to the selected objects window and mash the warp button as fast as you can. When you land, you will begin aligning down the gate. You can be locked and tackled as normal, but once you start the alignment process you become immune to tackle. You also cannot stop the warp yourself. This bug has apparently been present for a good while.
Tonight, I had a 35 man fleet with mixed frigates, cruisers and battlecruisers. We were camping the acceleration gate to a minor outpost (for anyone that isn’t involved in faction warfare, a minor complex gate restricts the ship size that can enter the site to T1 frigates and destroyers). Hans Jagerblitzen and a fleet of 20-25 thrashers warped in at 0 and every single one of them got through the gate. Our fleet was accompanied by another militia fleet, so we had something like 15-20 light tackle alone sitting at 0 on the gate while the cruisers and battlecruisers sat at ranges.
At first I thought that we were just bad; thrashers are pretty quick to align and the warp point they landed at was pretty decent, so we counter-captured a different site while they captured that one.
About 15 minutes later, a regular outpost spawns (it restricts the ship sizes to T1 cruiser and smaller). We, again, camped the gate. The same thing happens; Hans’ fleet warped in, this time in 20+ Ruptures and Stabber Fleet Issues. Every single one gets past our 15-20 light tackle and into the site, forcing us to countercapture a different site.
The third time it happened was for a minor outpost again; they warped in with thrashers, and we caught one that didn’t exploit correctly, but we also tackled one that was using the exploit. Here is a screenshot of the logs we received.
I’ve spoken with multiple others and confirmed the existence of the bug. I’ve replicated it on singularity and submitted a bug report, as well as petitioning Hans for exploiting.
Will anything happen? It took an enormous uproar for The Mittani to be removed from the CSM, will there be any consequences to Hans or any of his fleet members for abusing what is obviously an exploit like this?
After being caught red handed and admitting having exploited, Hans Jagerblitzen mentioned how he had already posted the FWreddit thread into into CCP’s Skype channel (isn’t that breaking an NDA?) in an effort to tone down the issue:
Already ahead of you. I think we all know how slow the GM’s can be with these matters so I simply linked this Fweddit post directly into the official CCP Skype channel 45 minutes ago. I’m sure they’ll be happy to clarify how acceleration gates work and decide whether or not I’m “exploiting” the game.
Social Backslash
Call it hubris if you will, but self-righteous redditors took the time to write some truly inspiring replies, here is the best quoted so far:
Why did you wait until this post was made to decide to step up and “do the right thing?” You had to have been doing this intentionally.. If not the first time in thrashers, definitely the second time when you were all in cruisers. I was there, I watched how brashly you all warped in, and an entire field of 30 cruisers got past 10-15 light tackle, through points/scrams and not a SINGLE cruiser was caught. If that doesn’t speak to it being premeditated on your part, I don’t know what would.
Hell, you’re a high priority target, you KNEW you were going to be called a primary and that tackle was coming your way, which is probably why you chose a plated navy auguror. A plated slow cruiser should not escape a rifter/thrasher/interceptors point. You all knew these things going in, but you all warped in, there was NO intent to fight, you all knew if you just used this bug you would be pushed right through.
Shame. Shame on you. A CSM is supposed to be there, not only to put the ideas of the general gaming community into CCP’s focus, but their original purpose was to be an ethics check, and to hold people accountable for less than ethical behavior and using knowledge of in game bugs/exploits/cheats to their own advantage. T20 and the T2 BPo Lottery. Here you are though, cheating, and as a CSM member to boot.
I have no love for Mittani or Goons, but if one CSM can be asked to resign for an off-color drunken comment that would have been completely ignored if it hadn’t been done in such a public forum, what then do you, as a CSM, think the punishment should be for someone found to be cheating? Or are you going to tell me that your judgement is so clouded, your opinion is so biased and your perspective so narrow that you cannot even call a spade for a spade and admit that this was, in fact, an exploit? Relying on the opinion of a GM to tell you whether or not you’re cheating? FFS man, your job is to watch THEM!
I’m so disappointed in you. Given the opportunity to do so much good for FWar, and given such a wonderful opportunity to represent people in a game we all enjoy, and you cheat to advance your own in game cause. Antithetical to you purpose is just the beginning.Who gives a shit about the GM’s, and >their< opinion of what constitutes cheating? YOU'RE A CSM MEMBER, DAMNIT. If you can't make ethical decisions on your own, why are you a CSM member? Do you honestly think that in any other circumstance other than implicitly doing it THIS exact way ends with a far different outcome (if you wait til you come out of warp and then try to hit the accel gate, you can be tackled, but if you warp @ 10km AND spam warp, you can be targeted, warp scrambled, and still get away) doesn't constitute an exploit? If you can't even determine if something so blatantly obvious is unethical and cheating.. how are we supposed to trust your judgement on anything that's more nebulous and actually DOES have some grey area to it?
At the very least, you should reflect on yourself and your own actions, and decide whether people want to remember you as the CSM that cheats.. regardless of whether or not CCP decides to do anything.
So, what do you think – did he exploited game mechanics? – if so, what do you think should be CCP Games’ response?
Discuss.
- R
This tickles my memory. Didn't CCP a long time ago say that acceleration gates sling a ship into warp, thus not using the ship's 'warp drive'. Therefore locks and scrams get broken, because in effect you'd have to warp scram the acceleration gate and not the ship to prevent it from warping.
I'd have to dig deep in forums to find it. But I don't think it's an exploit and rather it is 'working as intended'.
It is an old mechanic flaw. It really hasn't been important enough to complain about or for CCP to fix, since you can simply warp in after people. In FW, since the rats agrees only a faction, not all players, I guess I could see how this would be a bit different now.
Old mechanical flaw? Not important enough for ccp to fix?
I say working as intended and Riverini hoping to cash in on drama as well as bash a CSM member out of spite for not making the cut himself.
Faction Warfare is meant for scalable warfare. This includes being able to select the complexes you wish to do battle in. Not the complexes you wish to do battle for at the gate. Take your blobish bull to where people like blobbing…
Like in Low-Sec?
I agree, this is not an exploit.
Everyone spams the warp button, you do it, I do it and so does everyone I know. When you're burning out of a bubble you're spaming that button to make sure you warp out the instant you clear that bubble. It's a game mechanic. No one complains.
Acceleration gates have worked like this forever. It's like avoiding aggression timers at a stargate to be able to jump right back. If you're the attacker you just chase that rabbit through the gate until you manage to nab him and force him to fight… or it gets away.
This all smells of ugly character bashing.
10-to-1 that the "tackle" were canes or something ridiculous
i.imgur.com/Gb489.jpg
Dual sebo'd interceptor.
Can be reproduced ad naseum on SiSi.
ad nauseam
No. It's easy to realize that this is unintended because this behaviour isn't replicated if you spend any time idle at the gate. It *only* occurs if you spam the warp button while landing on it.
So you are defending a dick who likes to cheat?. Don't let your hate for riv blind you m8. While yes riv is a total idiot imo, what this joke for a CSM is doing is cheating and it's good to see him called out for it.
It's sensesionalist bull specificly engineerd to damage a CSM candidate in excelent standing over "spamming warp".
Shame on you for hopping on the drama bandwagon.
Well he's a goon trying to vilify someone other than the Mittani – nothing helps a bad mood like spreading it around right?
Wait, did you just call Riverini a Goon? Do go on. This is going to be good.
dosent every one have a goon alt >_>
I to wish to know more about riverini being a goon.
"Goon" does mean something other then just being a member of SA you know.
www.thefreedictionary.com/Goon
not in this game you idiot
Hey cocksucker… Hans is a CSM MEMBER, not candidate. BIG FUCKING DIFFERENCE.
No u!!
typical whine like a baby over how game mechanics work.
*IF* it was working as intended gates would function this way all the time or none of the time (They only work this way for a split second after dropping out of warp).
Not true. It works so long as the acceleration gate is on your overview.
Like anything in space if you spam the USE button. The system will take that order first.
It's this simple:
You hit the 'Activate' button for the gate.
Are you warp scramble?
Yes –> You can't use the gate.
No –> You can use the gate. Your ship will autimatically align and this slingshot shaped device will infact slingshot you.
Now, what are the chances that you can click activate before someone locks and points you?
Now, what are your chances if you just spam Activate before you land?
If FWeddit wanted the fight, they should have been on the inside. They wanted to catch a couple as the rest went in. It didn't go as intended. Butt hurt FWeddit goes to the their medium, calls shanannigans
I've read that as well. Something like 2-3 years ago. Pretty sure it's working as intended.
Another little fact to point out is that the accel gates give FW a sense of equal footing. What's to stop a group of sebo battlecruisers sitting outside a minor or normal complex gate? Allowing the dessies (or other ships that would be roflstomped by a BC gang) to go into warp on an accel gate is just my idea of saying don't use dynamite to kill a few flies.
If you get pointed whilst activating an acceleration gate, your warp will be cancelled. At least it used to work that way. The article details how to avoid this.
When it worked this way? I started pvp 2009 and it has been that since that, at least at in complexes.
To reiterate what ASDF was saying:
No, it never worked this way. Ever.
If you activating the gate, then you are warping to where it sends you. Only being pointed before activation can stop this. Not while.
Gate is throwing you, not your warp drive.
If you get pointed before trying to warp through the gate it will tell you that you can't warp do to what ever mod is scramming you, the only way to bypass that is the bug, it works in missions to and people use it to avoid missions ganks from time to time if they are close enough to the gate when the pirate shows up.
Nobody cares.
I don't know the details of this but it certainly sounds like this is not the way it is supposed to work. And as for a CSM member using such an exploit and not reporting it until he is caught. Shameful.
And as for a CSM member using such an exploit and not reporting it until he is caught. Shameful.
I think this sums it up pretty much.
Its not a f*cking Exploit. Its known behaviour and its been this way for years.
This whole "strory" is complete shit.
Shame on you for posting it
It's a clearly broken game mechanic, and Hans used it to stop his fleet getting killed by Fweddit. Therefore he is exploiting game mechanics. EVEN if it had been this way since 2003 and everyone in EVE had used it inadvertently, it is still exploiting if Hans uses it to his advantage which he did.
*IF* it was working as intended gates would function this way all the time or none of the time (They only work this way for a split second after dropping out of warp).
It is a mechanic that allows scaled engagements in Faction Warfare. Pretty much the reason people join Faction Warfare. Unless you are a farming corp like Fweddit…
0.0 butthurt, Faction Warfare has done without for a long time. Please stop pooping in our pool.
So basically you're saying that gates allowing you through despite tackle IF AND ONLY IF you do it under the right circumstances is not only a designed feature, it's one that's good for FW?
Stop trying to justify it, man up, and accept that Hans was using exploits.
Talk about being a bad loser in politics.
Riverini for CSM 2013 anyone?
Does the truth hurt?
Lol…
Horrible article, horrible person bashing.
Not even a funny whine thread.
If this was such a problem then why didn't you petition it before?
They have, it's just that nobody cared until a CSM member did this.
Now observe how CCP sneaks in a fix in less than one week.
Worst article I have ever read here. If this is an exploit then automatically jumping through gates is an exploit as well.
Except if you are stopped, then get pointed, then click the acceleration gate, you can't go through. Not true for a stargate.
You don't understand basic game mechanics, mate.
This is internet pixels not RL grow a fucking pair, let's cal all bad code by CCP exploits while your at, all I see in this is just another poor attemp to CSM bash from a cum quad fagbag who sux as much in RL as he does in game. I hear RVB is looking for new pewbs.
lol what's next? Reddit should start jetcanning BM's around the acceleration gate then in order to lag… errr I mean bounce pilots away from the gates xD
CONFRIMIGN O.G.M !
KEEP UP GOOD POASTIGN!
Never stop poasting. Ever.
hai faget
So the exploit is that when they land at the gate activate it too fast; by clicking the normal sequence, but faster.
what the ?
No dummy, the exploit is that EVEN AFTER you activate the gate, being pointed/scrammed is supposed to stop the warp. It doesn't. Broken mechanic. Anyone using it = exploit. CSM dude using and obviously smirking about it = fail.
Double standards, double standards everywhere.
WTF is that an exploit or a mechanic? There is definitely bitching and whining here, which is a much more serious game problem.
Why does this shock you? Just like all politics they claim to be there to help the people. In the end these shit bags on the CSM help themself to insider information and make there respective corp/alliances richer. Shit is still shit no matter what package you put it in. So when you get Pandamic Legion – Goons – Test – and other know cheaters – scammers – meta gamers on the CSM who would screw your grandmother in the grave, why would you exspect anything diffent.
CSM IS A FUCKING JOKE!!!! You dont need the biggest shitbags to get free trips to iceland to get briefed on upcoming features in the the game so they can make alt corp with there best buds to fuck the rest of us. CCP has the means to talk to everyone and random people — Eve Voice – private convos – Its Call Game Master Tools. Pick a random CEO or Alliance leaders – Pick random SOV holders. Ask questions to them. I bet you'll get honest and helpful insite. CCP has a wealth of info. Dont just limit it to 12 shitbags of the CSM.
Normally when I read a thread that features a lot of "why is this news?" comments, my retard-radar starts pinging.
In this case, those comments are right. This is not a damn exploit. It's an out-dated mechanic that has been known for years. So somebody missed some tackles on a frigging accel gate. So what? Get some light ships and go in there and fight them. Stop whining about not being able to catch the fish in the ONE SPOT that any FWer worth their salt knows is NOT a good place to catch them.
Once again: not even CLOSE to an exploit. Comparing this to the Goon LP manipulation is just bizzarre.
I never compared it to that. Not every exploit is on the same level as that.
i.imgur.com/Gb489.jpg
They didn't miss tackle. Got through anyway.
Noob cannot win, whines everywhere, thinks he has got a case, goes snitching. The story of EVE…
Learn to place your tacklers elsewhere, instead of just goggling at CSM members for knowing EVE better than you.
Am I missing the point…….
Which button do you press to activate an acceleration gate??? Oh yeah the jump button.
I don't see people complaining that ships are jumping through the gate or wormhole while tackled?
Man up, improve your tactics, you have fast aligning ships, you should be able to beat them to the first room and hold them long enough for heavier tackle to catch up and take over, catch them in the first room, or after jumping in at a gate, get webs and point on them like everyone else.
Why does everything have to be an exploit just because it means you have to be a little smarter and work a little harder. :-/
Wow, way to delete my post. Butt-hurt much?
Link to the eve-forums:
www.eve-search.com/thread/1337444-0/page/1
Gates have always worked like this, as intended?
Gates warp you not the ship..
Heeeeey man, we are the ship man
Right- so I should petition every ship I've lost on an acceleration gate, because if you don't practice 'Gate Sliding' and you get pointed, the only place you are going, is into a pod.
Conferming the author of this post needs to train Recon V and learn how to fucking tackle, instead of being the "I'm going to tell on you" guy and having a lleakyvag.
You my friend are an idiot. Guy got caught exploiting, it isn't a matter of 'telling' on somebody, it is a matter of breaking EULA. Pretty sure when you installed the game you agreed to it as did everyone else. If you don't agree with the post, you don't agree with EULA, and you need to uninstall.
This is a silly thing to claim as an exploight… I guess activating warp gates after warp to 0 is an exploight too?
i.imgur.com/Gb489.jpg
check that log yo.
Working as intended in my opinion. Drama post detected.
I agree
There is a clear downside to the CSM – select access to information plans that could be used to unfairly benefit the individual, alliance or coalition. CSM members have already been thrown off for exactly this – massively.joystiq.com/2009/09/08/eve-onlin…
As a corp/ alliance leader – how can you NOT use this inside intel to your advantage – it's impossible. It doesn't have to be overt -IRL if you planned to buy IBM stock , subsequently obtained inside knowledge they would go bankrupt in 5 days – you may not go out and short the stock but you wouldnt execute the buy.
My tinfoil side : It wouldnt suprise me to learn that the south is where the plat/ or cobalt moons are the most abundant….jus sayin.
So Hans saying he will ask in the CCP Skype channel to confirm that this is not an exploit is equal to "being caught red handed and admitting having exploited".
Amarr have been doing this for years.
Everyone ingame does it infact.
What's the problem with clicking warp once u land on gate?
The real exploit is fweddit plexing all the vulnerable systems infinity past vulnerable
Racking up millions of LP and not taking the bunkers down.
Please correct me if I'm wrong my dear Fweddit posters and other people that feel compelled to disprove what I'm about to say:
CSM member Hans warped his fleet/warped warped with the fleet he was in to an acceleration gate at 10km and subsequently hit the activate gate button. As a result he didn't get ''HAZED'' ''BIG PLAYZZ'ed''. Of course, this proves he was exploiting because he did not remain at the acceleration gate and await his undoubted demise, but instead chose to activate the gate and therefore used a gamemechanic that, although in my opinion should be changed, has been around for so long, has been used so many times by all sides, is so ubiquitous that it rightfully can not be called an exploit since an exploit is using a gamemechanic to get an advantage over another player that the other player will not or is unlikely to have full understanding of, whereas this is clearly a mechanic that is considered a part of the acceleration gate system by all but some smacking, person bashing little people that get upset when things don't go their way.
I see however that CSM member Hans shares your and mine opinion that this mechanic inherent to the acceleration gate system ought to be changed to allow more ships to go ''poof''. CSM member Hans subsequently acted by notifying CCP when he got aware of the same widespread opinion voiced by Fweddit, albeit probably exhibited in local chat in a complaining, trolling and whining manner, as is Fweddit's way.
Furthermore, notifying CCP of any opinions posted on the Eve forums or at any other publicly accesible forum can not be in violation of any NDA because any such opinion will be, inherent to the nature of a public forum, disclosed when it is posted on forementioned forum.
Please correct me if I'm wrong my dear Fweddit posters and other people that feel compelled to disprove what I'm about to say:
CSM member Hans warped his fleet/warped with the fleet he was in to an acceleration gate at 10km and subsequently hit the activate gate button. As a result he didn't get ''HAZED'' ''BIG PLAYZZ'ed''. Of course, this proves he was exploiting because he did not remain at the acceleration gate and await his undoubted demise, but instead chose to activate the gate and therefore used a gamemechanic that, although in my opinion should be changed, has been around for so long, has been used so many times by all sides, is so ubiquitous that it rightfully can not be called an exploit since an exploit is using a gamemechanic to get an advantage over another player that the other player will not or is unlikely to have full understanding of, whereas this is clearly a mechanic that is considered a part of the acceleration gate system by all but some smacking, person bashing little people that get upset when things don't go their way.
I see however that CSM member Hans shares your and mine opinion that this mechanic inherent to the acceleration gate system ought to be changed to allow more ships to go ''poof''. CSM member Hans subsequently acted by notifying CCP when he got aware of the same widespread opinion voiced by Fweddit, albeit probably exhibited in local chat in a complaining, trolling and whining manner, as is Fweddit's way.
Furthermore, notifying CCP of any opinions posted on the Eve forums or at any other publicly accesible forum can not be in violation of any NDA because any such opinion will be, inherent to the nature of a public forum, disclosed when it is posted on forementioned forum.
Everything can be viewed as a whine if perception wills it.
Including your post.
poor form by EN24 jumping on DurrHurrDurr's sensationalist bandwagon trying to defame Hans Jagerblitzen. What is the point of even having restricted gates if you aren't allowed to use them to manage your fights, preventing the enemy from outshipping you? DurrHurrDurr just saw a fun way to cause some drama and everyone has blown this out of proportion.
Poetic Stanziel makes an excellent description of this here: poeticstanziel.blogspot.com/2012/08/factio…
Its got nothing to do with warp mechanics, as I thought, and everything to do with session change mechanics as some have suggested. Thank you Poetic Stanziel, I love learning new things.
If this is an exploit, like I said in my comment in his page, we should all hand ourselves over and take the punishment.
"Never go full retard"
How many of u landed on a plex/mission gate, and stucked, unable to do anything but to wait until the game mechanic aligns u and warp you ? Its old like, old hooker.
another useless article for riverini and him friends
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes
You're dumb.
Proof that you don't know actual Latin.
Doesn't make you sound any smarter as well.
Its an external force propelling you on. This means its like a fucking stargate.
Since when has being scrambled on a stargate prevented you from jumping through?
Hint: Not ever.
The real bug here is the failure of people to understand this. Lame.
You know… Some objectivity wouldn't be a bad thing here.
was in FW a few months and we all thought it was just acceleration gate mechanics that made you untackable. for me it was pretty funny because a lot of people just screamed on voice "POINT HIM BEFORE HE HITS WARP". but from another view this also could be an exploit. depends on ccps answer. but for me its definitly not an exploit because a lot of ppl got used to it and we know, eve sometimes got some weird mechanics
Riverini, delivering quality shit "news" as always.
How about instead of blobbing you put a couple of bs with smart bombs next time and just bomb them as they land….then no requiremnet for tackle they just pop. Then have a gang sitting nearby and they bring a fleet to remove you u warp gang and get a fight…..thus you avoid this stupid argument over a a game mechanic thats exsisted and has been known since the game was made,….
This is just a drama that was conjured up….and the bad players who didnt know about this thinking they can jump in claim an exploit against a CSM.
Looks a bit like character assassination to me
EVERYBODY mashes the warp button when trying to escape
What is he supposed to say? Don't mash warp on accel gates guys just in case we exploit?
I think not, besides if the shoe was on the other foot pretty sure OP would be mashing away leaving poor Hans to grudgingly run plexs instead of ganking t1 friggys
Just sour grapes over missed kms
Hell, the second time around i'd have done it on purpose just to annoy the whiners. It's not like you guys couldn't have, oh I dunno, followed them through the gate?
I'm not trying to take a side here but I think whats being said that even if it was an exploit that has been there for years and 'everyone else is doing it' that as Hans is a CSM he shouldn't. If that is whats being said then..yea I'd have to agree.