During, what for me is the night, famous and known FC of Pandemic Legion, Shadoo – Unveiled a rather serious exploit in EVE-Online.
And so, we perhaps made a small mistake at Evenews 24 and rushed stuff through the presses without check into the story and facts enough before publishing.
I’d like to apologize and try to clarify and rectify this;
I sent Shadoo a mail, hoping he had time and effort to give a comment.
And I’ll just qoute his email to make this as transparent as possible:
From: Shadoo
Sent: 2012.07.06 10:47
To: DsanWe made a 2 directional bomb run with 3 squads, which means that the 3rd squad should not have done much damage. It was enough to kill all the tornados but when the Nagas died as well — we were suprised and went testing and discovered no bombs (regardless of type) did any damage.
As I said in my k.com post — I do NOT believe SoCo/CFC/HBG has been intentionally exploiting this on hostile engagements. I think that everyone has just been UNINTENTIONALLY been getting better results than they should have been. And no one else just wondered “why”, they just took them as great bomb runs and moved on. I mean if you just killed a 100 ships on a bomb run, would you stop to look for a reason why?
Does that help?
Yes it did Shadoo, thank you very much. And the 0.0 community thank you for revealing this exploit.
To my knowledge, and my best ressource of materials so far is Shadoos own post on kugutsumen.com, revealing how he explored this exploit.
I had lunch at work and came back to the Shadoo mail, but I’ll still put Shadoos original post on Kugutsumen in here aswell.
Directly copy/pasted from kugutsumen:
Today PANGU coalition bombed DBRB on a gate in a ~700 man local with 24-26 bombers, in one wave, all at the same time. Our tengu fleet sat there watching and laughing since they were bombing the gate and only 7 bombs were going to hit while drakes were all jumping out. We kinda went into :WTC: mode as 70 drakes died, but quickly returned into v0v mode without wondering too much more.
I formed a bomber fleet to bomb Makalu’s sniper tornados and did a 2 angle warp with 3 squads (didn’t have time to do 3rd angle) and killed pretty much his whole Tier3 fleet but was wondering how the fuck we got some of the bigger EHP targets down. We knew all Tornados were going to die from 14 bombs, but something didn’t quite add up.
So off we went to look at logs, followed by some safespot bombing of a carrier, then multiple different bomb types bombing at the same time and basically concluded: BOMBS ARE BUGGED TO SHIT.
My first thought was to go bomb 319 undock where -A- carriers sit watching bombers do waves often lauging at them. My second thought was I really don’t want to get my 80mil SP only subcaps trained character I use for bombing FC banned. My third thought was to find people we all love to shoot in Pandemic Legion.
My first action was to ask for Lenid Kalkin and Wrik Hoover to jump into carriers.
HQ angle:
Low quality gfx:
Pwnership:
Hilarity ensued. And I got my explanation why some of the more retarded bomb runs by the SoCo have been so successful, of course — having been in some of those fleets — I don’t think SoCo actually *knew* about this, they just went on patting their backs and admiring their killboards.
Also, it would be interesting to investigate if anyone else might have known of this exploit/bug before Shadoo and perhaps used it intentionally without reporting it ?
I know Shadoo says he doubt anyone had bothered looking into it before, but who knows.
I think it need also needs clarification that this has nothing to do with neither Titan bridges nor Goonswarm trying to ruin the game.
For those speculating in Alliance tournament, this isn’t really applicable to the tournament, as the biggest advantage you could draw from it during the tournament would be multi racial bombs instead of using same bombs to avoid them exploding each other as per old mechanics. You can’t form a team big enough to launch 8 bombs on top of each other in the initial rounds.
And for killmails proofing this; eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=13899266
Dosen’t take much navigation from there to find the others.
Fun fact by Powers Sa (@Powersv2):
This is the jabber ping that Shadoo sent out to the Honeybadger coalition;
8:27:46 PM directorbot: go join uncle shadoo and do something mildly hilarious || shadoo: MY FRIENDS,
I CALL UPON YOU FOR SOMETHING HILARIOUS — hence all capital letters.I am asking you, every one of you, to fill my fleet with bombers. I want 256 bombers. All with BOMB launchers. Put 2 bombs of whatever racial damage your bomber gets bonus to.
ALL BOMBERS. ANY BOMB. IN AES SEDA1 FLEET.
Comms in MOTD. I NEED EVERYONE FOR HILARIOUS MASSIVELY FUNNY STUNT.
*** This was a broadcast from theadj to all-all, replies are not monitored ***
More to come.
Pasted and typed by Dsan.
More edits and updates to come.
Update:
CCP has been swift in action for once, and lets all salute this.
This bug/exploit should already have been fixed with todays downtime.
I am still reporting from the jungle that is my slave internship, and can’t actually login and test or see these things.
But heres some more from Shadoo;
Patch notes say that missiles and bombs take damage now — and this is true.
However, bombs are supposed to have racial resistance to the dmg type which would allow 7-9 bombs to hit at the same time. Currently, no resistance is applied. So 1 bomb will destroy all bombs within 15km range.
I’d say they will fix it soon and we’ve bug reported it again & asked for CSM attention, but it essentially means bomb runs do pretty much no damage before they fix it again.
So yeah.. it’s something, but lets see if we have an emergency reboot some time during the day maybe. I know some dudes ingame that rely heavily on bombs for the time being.
Much more accurate reporting. We need more of this; actual research and investigation, instead of the mindles "HURF GOONS R EXPLOITIN BUGS FUCK THE CFC WHAT A BAG OF DICKS BLUGH" we seem to get on a daily basis.
You have my nod of respect, Dsan.
Thank you sir.
Greatly appreciated.
GG Dsan.
EN24 needs more articles like this. Keep up the good work.
It was good while it lasted?
Will be interesting to see how fast a "fix" will come out.
it's friday and I'm starting to doubt CCP will even announce it an exploit today, but maybe rather announce that Monday and have a fix Tuesday..
So maybe Wednesday we can present some "yes, this was used a lot" reports
Wow some time was taken to actually report on this as opposed to somehow turn a story about Shadoo exposing an exploit by having people bomb one of PL's carriers into "Goons suck and they cheat what a surprise"
I think anyone who lost anything due to more than 7 bombers with bombs needs to petition their loss to CCP.
Too much of a hassle, and it could have been a legit bombing run. It will be interesting to see what happens; Does this mean bombers bombing cannot be utilized until this is patched?
It's already been patched. Unfortunately, now bombs do massive amounts of damage to each other and it's worthless to do a run with more than 1 bomb.
CCP.
so it seems.
You can launch more than 7 bombs before they broke it so bombs took no damage and get that many hits.
Problem was one side was starting to mix they bombs and just warp 40 people on the same path. So they had some Noobs in they gang or they was exploiters
Best story on EN24 in a long, long time.
it has already been fixed
But the fix is itself bugged. :ccp:
I was beginning to think that -A- were actually accomplished bombing FCs. I am happy to know that it was in fact a bug, and all is right in the world; That is to say, -A- is shit. While bombing is an effective counter to blobs, it requires skill and planning to pull off.
Well after todays patch no matter how skilled you are you ain't killing shit with bombs. So yeah, once again CCP bends to the will of the CFC ( <tinfoil> Whether they know it or not</tinfoil>) and removes any counter to the blob.
I'm not saying it shouldn't have been fixed, just that it should have been actually fixed, instead of nerfed to the point where it's useless.
So because the CFC were dying to bombing runs, CCP should have left it as is until they could deploy the patch which would fix them completely…. You are a moron. I love how everyone claims CCP helps the CFC meanwhile you are blue with Ex-BOB members who had items spawned for them by CCP staff.
Not to mention the amount of bitching you guys would be doing if you had to fight a full bomber fleet every engagement.
Not a soco member fyi.
Also, your dumb.
Nice comeback to an intelligent and correct reply to your shitty generalization faggot.
Bet you feel clever now.
*you´re
Excellent article. Fair, accurate, quotes sources, consolidates and explains all the information pertaining to the subject. Great job Dsan!
Hmm, this could be related to the bug that I noticed happening when you get out of warp and dropping probes or bombs. Basically right after you come out of warp and you try to drop probes/bubbles/bombs, there is a bug that prevents you from doing it. It gives a 'magnetic alignment' error and you cannot fire the probe/dictor bubble/bomb for 10-15 secs unless you move ie. align somewhere. Also during this period the ship is invulnerable. I had reported the bug some 4-5 days ago, both as a bug report and on the inferno 1.1 threads, but so far no response from CCP. I'm sure it's in some way related to this bug.
It is far more related to missiles, as shadoo has pointed out. It may be vaguely tied together in some ridiculously sloppy coding, but it seems to be far more likely that theyre separate issues created from 2 different changes, namely the overview and missiles respectively, although If it was determined to be a result of the new item system id not be surprised either.
Man, with CCP you never know. They always manage to break stuff that works…
CCP already fixed this bug, it will be out by August(the dev responsible went on vacation). See Test Server forum
great, now the entire en24 'fan-club' will be invading kugu…. it was actually pretty decent untill it became so publicly opened.. and thus full of 'excelent posters'
Shouldn't have put link at least.
Thank Mariavauder, not sure if he was trolling. but then i didn't get it.
He asked me to refference to kugu more, especially when articles was copy/paste jobs.
U do know what i meant by that right? I absolutely love EN24 for the articles, but 99% of the comments are pure SHIT….
@ RUKIDDINGME?
bro, i'm sorry but the ones who know.. knew about kugu had at least half a brain.
the thread about delve has 61 pages, and 60% are crap posts… it didn't used to be like this… and it'll only get worse if you just transport the en24 excelent posters to kugu too. hopefully on kugu they'll just get negrepped and get infractions for shitty posts
)
forum warriors are all shit posters just sayin
60%? Trolololol, more like 90. Of course, if en24 wasnt also terrible, I wouldnt know that.
Yes because in the year 2012 kugu is still a highly kept secret held away from the mass of shit posters that populate EvE.
ha , so all this cheastbeating from AAA' s leadership was in fact an exploit they did without knowing ? mmmm interesting
You do realise that bombing runs with old (read working) mechanics have been done in the past. E.g. goons bombing entire abaddon fleet in branch on WN titan or Old Hroft bombing some -A- tengus not that long ago.
So I think many drake gangs that have welped to bombs recently are actually legit bomb runs. Pangu maybe haven't calculated how many bombs work but some more experienced bomber FCs sure have.
Calling every succesfull bomb run exploit just because one is found is just plane stupid bad propaganda spin… Maybe if you didn't blob 500 drakes to one spot lagging out enrite system they weren't so "easily" bombable (exploit/bug or not)
Also its impossbile to say what side have benefit more from this UNINTENTIONALLY. I think some RA/nulli brawler BS losses recently may have also taken few extra bombs…
Regardless having hundreds of drakes/other ships in one spot means its just matter of time bombers hit something no matter what side of conflict you are playing. I would guess there has been shit loads of failed bombing runs also for both parties so its still not instant I WIN button….
the difference is , its not our major way of action, and we dont care bout killboard.
all this killboard stats u claimed so proudly oubout were infact due to a bug . bravo !
Well, if in the past the bomb runs worked via an exploit, it doesn't mean they didn't happen or were legit.
They were all bugged. Including the latest AAA ones.
If it worked in the wrong way, having worked in the wrong way A LOT doesn't magically turn it into the right way.
I think one needs kinder garden language level 5 to understand the comment above…
Trying to explain something to person who barely knows how to press launch bomb button…
FYI:
1) Bombers haven't always been bugged. E.g. the goon bombing run example is from january iirc. You saying goons exploited bug that didn't even exist in January?
2) You are missing the whole point. The fact bombers kill drakes is nothing new nor you need and exploit to do it. if you stockpile shitloads of big ships to one spot sooner or later even semi-decent bomber FC hits and kills something. It's not that hard to hit a gate while lagged fleet is trying to load system/jump or hit cyno for instance…
3) Even if it works wrong way doesn't make using same tactics as you used when they worked properly any less usefull or any less legit. As said it's been done in past with working bombers so why same tactic wouldn't still work? You maybe get few extra kills by accident as bit more bombs hit but if ship dies after 7 bombs anyways the next 10 bombs doesn't mean a shit as your ships are already dead. And if the FC knows what he is doing he isn't dropping 50 bombs at the same time from same spot to begin with. In 10% tidi it may look like that tho as it takes forever to bombs actually reach target. You might see 2nd wawe been launched while the first wawe is just about to start hitting. Or have couple wawes coming from different angles thus not hitting bombs coming from other angle that much.
Oh btw I had my loki getting hit by 20 bombs on single test/PL/whatever cfc alliances bombers on one bombing run week ago (no it wasnt even close on dieing nor have I lost T3 in this war so far). Was that an exploit also? I think it was 2 wawes maybe most of them hitting even if it worked properly but according to you its all exploiting so so be it!
As said even if there was bug found last night it doesn't make all bombing runs exploits nor do you need exploit to kill stuff with bombs.
I rest my case. Unless you can prove your ships died because of exploit STFU and cry me a river.
Watch the videos AAA and nulli put up of their runs. They are basically launching them all at the same time.
Goons suck and they cheat what a surprisze hurf blurf o7 m8
ex-NC indeed. Fucking pubbie
Some how this entire thing has been about people saying that Goons "made" CCP bend and do something that would work in Goons favor. But what CCP really did was fix a blatant bug in the bomb mechanics.
And to say that bombing is a "counter to blobbing" is far reaching. Lets be honest, 1000+ man Drake gang comes in (and bombs function as intended) and no matter how many times you make a pass at them your not going to make a dent.
SoCo is just trying to make a scene where there is just another CCP fuck up.
A wave of 7 void bombs followed by 2 waves of any single type of damage bomb will wipe out ANY fleet under the old mechanics.
CCP just fucked things up twice.
Exploit reveled, offer shadoo's Mom some crack cocaine and she will go down on you like fat tick sucking on a lazy dog.
Where in the hell do you get goons cheat from showing a mechanic that has been in place for years to be broken…. Anyway great article thanks a lot and keep more like this coming.. Shows true journalism and not fox news journalism when you actually get the facts before writing a report
all those goons used that exploit which they all knew was an exploit, and posted it on youtube. that is a direct violation of the EULA, so all the goons, also shadoo, should be banned for using a known exploit
actually no matter how hard you break eula only ccp can decide if they want to banned you or not. So if i break the eula to demonstrate a bug and post it on youtube, most likely i won't get banned cause i am tyring to show how the bug is work or what the bug is without benefiting myself. However if i don't tell anyone, turn in a bug report, or whatever, and exploit it to hell than i will get spank by ccp maybe softly maybe hard. Its all up to ccp
This could have been an awesome, fun and cheap anti-blob feature and not just for one side, everyone could have used it, but :ccp: again.
Not sure how long this bug has existed, assume it was due to a recent change. -A- was unaware of it and was using normal bombing runs.
-A- bomb in squads of around 7, if a target is stupid enough to sit there in a bubble, you can land 2-3 waves on them. Drakes are slow fat bomb targets, if you can catch em off gate in a bubble they are screwed by a decent bomber fleet regardless if you can drop waves of bombers them.
This looks very pretty though, would be nice to drop multiple damage types in unlimited number, but a bit broken! Perhaps CCP could introduce large bombs for larger targets (don't hit frigs/hacs) that can be dropped in more numbers before they pop each other that would be nice.
Tech II bombs
Im confirming ccp is so incompetend that they always copy paste their bugs back into the game. Nice way to go ccp to favour goonies again by making bomb runs impossible…..
How do we have their favor? WE were the ones getting bombed you fool. If you don't like this game stop fucking playing it and go cry somewhere else.
I think previous poster was referring to the bungled fix which makes 1 bomb destroy all other bombs in its radius, regardless of bomb type. Until that is fixed, bombing is now useless.
I must be missing something here.
If this bug allowed one bomb to destroy all others… why is a single wave of 25 bombs killing 70 Drakes and 2 waves of 10 and 20 killing Nagas? If I'm reading this right, You could launch all the bombs in the world but the first one to explode would kill the rest meaning only minimal damage would be inflicted. Am I understanding this correctly and can someone explain it to me a little better?
To clarify, its this quote from Shado's mail that's really confusing me:
"…no bombs (regardless of type) did any damage."
no bombs did any damage to other bombs, they all hit drakes etc for full damage
He must have forgot to type "to the other bombs"
No bombs did any damage to any other bomb. This ment that no matter how many bombs you launched they'd all explode and do damage to the target.
YAY FIREWALL WORKS AGAIN!
History show us one thing
Bigger alliances = more petitions = Immediate CCP action = horrible results
Lets not forget this game is 9 years old. And we are still to see a major pach that not produce shit load of bugs. We are still to see major patch planed and deployed at time.
9 years to learn. 9 yeas of FAIL.
Is there CCP actions that help CFC? YES
Are they intentional or just plan stupid ? No-one knows for sure
Facts shows that immediate ccp action favor the bigger number of petitions. I guess everyone can understand, why that is happening.
You seem to be under the pretense that Bombers were only affecting the CFC, and that if left unadjusted there would be no risk of any other alliance/group bombing/killing hostile carriers/dreads or being killed in such a manner.
You also seem to think everyone was told to file petitions.
no dude
U seem to thing that the CFC is the shit in this game and everything is sniping around em.
CFC is the current power block, there for the best example for LARGE NUMBER of petitions
if you Facts u want use Google
Holy fuck, tin foil hats and grammar lessons for everyone!
You know.. when you're sitting in station the whole day ship spinning imaginations can run wild. I just hope they don't start slitting their wrist.
So I guess this means that missiles will also be susceptible to smartbombs again?
where's the technetium fix than? EVERYONE, has been calling for it, including the mittani, for months. Bombing is just a stupid pvp activity that ultimately has far less impact on the game then the mountains of isk being created for OTEC corps while the Cock Colored Ponies (CCP) does nothing.
technetium does not create isk out of nowhere. It creates technetium which is worth alot and bought off the market. It does not generate isk into the system. Is it a bug… no, is it unfair having a moon that can give you 10 billion a month…. ehhhhh i will say no.
Wow. What happened to this website? It seems like a real article just emerged.
Careful Dsan, riverini may revoke your ~goodposting~ privileges.
CCP sucks monkey balls and can't do anything ever right.
COULD PEOPLE PLEASE STOP CALLING OUR FEATURES BUGS???
EvE doesn't have bugs, they're undocumented features.
IRC knew at least a few weeks ago that missiles were impervious to damage, they tested it with smartbombs on a carrier and a few drakes. Don't know if they actually did anything with the info, but I know smartbombs got taken off some of the official fits to fit more launchers… They were also giving away more stealth bombers in eby than usual…
The bombs thing is new though, and hope it gets fixed fairly quickly.
And by fixed, you mean completely borked in the opposite direction. Now 1 bomb destroys all bombs around it, including bombs of the same type. CCP are hilariously inept at times.
true, but it keeps things from getting truly retarded until they get it fixed.
You're retarded
CCP is retarded, when u cant fix this u broke this, so thx CCP one more time to make this game more retarded
U fuck-up up super-carries, u fucked up titans, u fuck-up whole game because retarded players like goons