Where are the Goon Supers… Oh, there they are.

By Bagehi | Feb 22nd 2012 3:58PM
103 Comments

There has been a reoccurring refrain about how Goons are too chicken to field supers.  Goons are known to have one of the largest super cap fleets in Eve.  Yet, they have rarely fielded capital ships in the last year.  The tin foil hats have been coming out increasingly with various explanations for the once again elusive super cap fleet.  Conspiracy theories ranging from:

looks like the onesided battle off 6oy was a setup.

The mittani ordered his own fleet bubbled all the time just to get ammunition for the CSM to get CCP to nerf titans. I guess he thought he would just welp over Raiden but resistance now is a bit tougher and if he can’t win the battle on the field he will try to win it in the CSM.

Goons has easily got the ability to field the largest subcap fleets in Eve and any big nerf to supers and titans will be one step more for total 0.0 goon domination.

To…

CCP and Mittani agreed to no goon titans to keep the eve balanced in exchange for crucible

To…

goon supers taken away by gms cause they bought with rmt

To… well, you get the picture.  The recent 6oyq-z battle saw an increase in conspiracy theories and confusion about why Goons kept throwing subcap fleets at capital fleets.  Goon leader and self proclaimed CSM Chairman for life, The Mittani, provided an explanation recently to his fellow goons that only fed fuel to the conspiracy theorists.  Goonswarm has always caused controversy in Eve.  As it grew in power, it also began to attract the conspiracy theorists in droves.  So, after having kept their supers safely tucked away since rolling over WN, and instead of accepting a toe-to-toe fight with Raiden’s super cap fleet, they continued throwing subcaps into battles, why did they bring out supers yesterday?

BATTLE REPORT

Riverini was at the fight, and his Curse felt the (by now) well known frustration that is tracking titans.  A video of the fight is available on youtube (for those Riverini haters, you can watch him die in a bubble at 2:30):

So, why now?  Why did the Goons suddenly field supers against Raiden after having used little more than drakes against them for over a month?

The word is that a Razor Erebus, piloted by Ambassador Delenn, was tackled in the system and Razor batphoned Goons, who quickly pulled out the big guns to save the stranded titan.  Raiden may not have been ready for the response, or may have lost their cyno pilot before being able to complete the trap (I did a once through of the killmails and didn’t find a dead cyno ship though).  Best guess is Goon Intelligence Agency (GIA) knew that this was the full extent of the trap set by Raiden, and the super drop was simply confidence that this battle wouldn’t escalate.  Either way, Goons popped off 16 Raiden dreads and a handful of subcaps that had been along for the ride, then finished off the Raiden TCU for good measure.

Bagehi – Hater of Supers

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  • RayFromMarketing

    Finally! Now both sides do that on a regular basis and we will have the biggest goodfightes ever.

    Death to Supers!

  • someguy

    I too, can pull words out my ass

    • …

      it's obvious.

  • Atrum Veneficus

    Simple fact #1: RDN is a primarily euro-tz alliance and this operation took place in ustz, where the CFC has timezone supremacy.

    Simple fact #2: PL was elsewhere fuming about the two supercarriers they lost to -AAA-, and there was no other entity within range to pose a danger to CFC supercapitals.

    You debunk several conspiracy theories only to fall prey to one of your own. The simplest explanation is the correct one: our capital ship FCs are very risk averse. This leads to supercapitals only being deployed under certain circumstances.

    • bagehi

      Yeah, that's pretty much what I said. Second from last sentence:

      "Best guess is Goon Intelligence Agency (GIA) knew that this was the full extent of the trap set by Raiden, and the super drop was simply confidence that this battle wouldn’t escalate."

      • Goon super

        There was no trap lol

        We were blowing up and dropping TCU's

        RDN got trolled into dropping dreads

        All of our supers were already in system blowing up the TCU when they cyno'd in

        There is no conspiricy theory, we can't use supers in EU TZ because RDN/NC./INIT simply have more.

        In USTZ however, nobody at the moment can contest us super wise

        • DeviouslyBaking

          Perhaps its a false sence of security that you are being given, and one day wham, that cyno won't be 10 dreads but 27 titans and 60 supercarriers, oh the day that happens will cause Mittani to have a stroke.

          • Kratisto

            So theres this thing called spais. and usually these gentlemen of good repute have watchlisted on contacts a bunch of supers. when supers start logging in people know about it. And theres the having someone in their alliance listening to comms bit.
            It is possible to be fairly certain that in your nearby vicinity there is no super gang of threatening size (50+) is online.

          • bagehi

            Yeah, I always know when -A- or NCdot are about to hit something with supers. My watchlist starts lighting up. Don't need to be a spy to have that info. The spies take it a step further. Nothing more appealing than attacking an enemy when they don't have anyone authorized to field a super fleet online.

  • thorn squad down

    We were tracking and harassing this cap fleet. Caught a cloaked rorqual on an onlining tower and got him to a sliver of hull before the cap fleet arrived to rep him back up. So we batphoned Black Legion to help us try and ninja a cap while they were in transit between systems.

    We tackled (at a minimum) a chimera and rag. Then Goons cyno'd in and Black Legion turned on us.

    • Phey Onat

      We didn't cyno in. We hit a TCU at a pos then warped out to a safe. A rag and a chimera were bounced/late to warp and got tackled. We turned the fleet around as BL landed on us in our safe. Dreads were cyno'd in and a stop bubble was placed to keep our supers at bay. A few shots at BL later we were in warp back to the POS where the rag was and DD'd everything we could when we landed.

      There was no trap, no counter drop, we were already in system and BL 'turned on you' after we had wiped your suicide dreads off the field.

      • some jackass

        super dong fleet is awesome!

  • SgtSimons

    Goons are just being smart, like -A- was with their supers. Why use them when they know they very likely might lose just because Raiden would batphone, NC. and PL if a major super brawl was to happen.

    • Mr.Boobs.

      Thank you for your immense insight. Sgt. Obvious.

      • SgtSimons

        congrats you are trolling on a 2nd grade level, you should be proud.

        • Bashiri

          Counter drop is also a good idea but on your terms. Just never dropping cause you are scared is worst.

        • Mr.Boobs

          You are clearly wrong, as my grammar is at least on 3rd grade level. What did you expect by posting that stupid redundant comment with brown-nosing words like "batphone" anyway? Thumb me down harder kugu army, lol it tickles. Also haters gonna hate. Keep it up, Sgt.tryhard.

          • SgtSimons

            you do know your the hater right?

          • Mr.Boobs

            A non-conformist i beg your pardon, haters.

          • Gumpin

            Haters gonna umadbro?

          • truefacts

            Glorious whine.

            Keep letting everyone know your so butt-hurt over EN24 comments…

    • 8008ies

      You know that Raiden alone can field more supers than goons entire coalition right?

      • M1k3y

        Read somewhere that goons has around 200 supercapitals raiden is around 120

        Raiden use theirs, Goons dont.

        • powersv2

          Quote CCP Diagoras: "Only counting chars with >5m sp (avoiding alts), alliances with 500+ members, top 3 alliances by average SP… Pandemic Legion- 73,672,907, Northern Coalition. – 67,634,861, Raiden. – 65,185,679."

          • M_D_

            You are talking average SP numbnuts. You have any idea how much 'newbies" are in the CFC? That goons alone have triple the members of Raiden? That Raiden probably has a very selective recruitment program? That it is hard to think? That bad propaganda smells?

          • powersv2

            I am a product of a newbee drive. It isn't hard to think, but when you have a higher SP average, you are talking about a lot more old players with advantages over new players.

          • Gumpin

            using SP totals against GOONSWARM?

            The founders of the rifter fleet? Go back to eve history class :V

          • powersv2

            Just merely saying, SP dictates the ability to field caps and supercaps.

      • skullair

        honestly i would love to see hard numbers on who has how many capitals currently is just speculation…. (so don't act so sure)

        and goons not fielding supers is more or less they dont want to pay for replacments… 10 Titans being charged on a SRP fund gets hard…

        • Whistleblower

          Super Carrier: 292
          Titans: 86

          These are overall CFC numbers (so not only "goons"), but limited to killmail confirmed sightings, so it should be even a few more.

  • tits or

    goons are actually sad mofos who cant play, only blob…. 1vs1 and you will lose

    • Gark32

      this. . .this is a ridiculous statement. Eve isn't about 1v1. there are no fair fights in eve, only the ones you win or the ones you lose.

      • Wilson Yu

        than why the fuck are people complaining about supers? lol are you retard or a hyprocrite, you whole statement basically say supers are okay to use lol "no fair fights" So it doesn't matter if goons over blob with sub caps and pl use a dozen titans "everything is permitted" (except hacking and stuff" man is eve made up of butt hurt nerds who cries to ccp about everything.

        • fuck goons

          goons permit hacking, thats ccps job to deal with it… if they can benefit from taxes and letting faggot hackers and botters rat in their space to buy supers with, what the fuck do you think they will do. Its goons, in every iteration of their shit brigade in every game they seek to overload one side, and zerg and have no competition so they feel like they have won, they do this through hacking, metagaming, spamming forums/local and making it all around lame to even bother fighting their zerg (blob in this game) funny think is in eve they cant run to another server so they just QQ all day about supers whooping their fucking ass,. QQ more you fucking loser faggot goonie mittani dick sucking whores.

    • Jarlexly

      Tell me one alliance who is doing 1-1 with any of their ships? Have you seen PL saying " here is our erebus send your erebus to fight with it" ? Put anyship name to the "erebus" 's place, did you even see a fight against 2 fleet making an agreement to fight in even terms? İ dont think so, so shut the fuck up and stop suggesting this kind of idiot ideas and play the game as it is like everyone plays.

      • alachazam

        Last year, in the war between the old NC and DRF we saw some pretty epic 1v1 capitals (equal numbers, you know what I mean) … I remember the battle of Udemon as a major reference point to this. Things have changed in the meantime tough.

        • Wilson Yu

          yea, now people are too afraid of losing super capitals. I like pl and raiden. solely because they are not too afraid of using super capitals. I hate it when super capitals just sit in hangar and collect dust, why spend that much money on a ship when you don't even use it.

          • alachazam

            U can't dock supercaps bro.

          • Lol@goons

            You can't dock a super….

          • Bashiri

            Don't log that character in for 4 months and your super is docked

    • butte

      we'll fucking KILL your nigger ass

  • Hypocrite

    Bagehi, hater of supercapitals unless they belong to goons or test.

    • bagehi

      Nope. I hate them no matter who is flying them. They are game breaking in my opinion.

      • dreamersofreality

        Supers are currently the end of the escalation of battles. Supers are, in a nutshell, the power of several people inside 1 ship. Prime example of this is the current goon vs raiden, goons by fay outnumber raiden 20 to 1 but why is raiden winning? Simple, Raiden is using ships that give the the POWER of 20 men inside 1 ship thus balancing the battlefield out and eventually overcoming the enemy in power. If supers didn't exist in this game, or even capitals for that matter, we all would be under the goon banner by now. Supers are force projection there are many ways to beat them, but people do not think outside of the box, never think on what IS the weakness of a super and instead just jump on the "nerf it now" bandwagon.

        • Nickator

          Raiden is winning?

          From the front it looks like a stalemate with Branch tech moons once again in CFC hands and RDN up a few venal moons (maybe 5-7).

          • lol

            only because the timers are set of their prime times, if raiden showed up in force on a ustz fight goons would die then as well

          • Pirokobo

            And then lose their jobs the next day.

          • Zeroniss

            Sounds about right. People focus in their focus TZs for a reason – it's when they have the time to play. If we could all play EVE all day every day, we'd have some of the most spectacular around the clock wars ever seen… and then some of the most boring downtime between them too.

          • shadoo

            people who play all day every day are mostly PL. just shows they are a bunch of 14 year olds that skip school so they can for once be know to more people than the schoolyard bully. the character "twisted girl" is off for about 7 hours, than back on it, day in and day out.

            sad to know that some people put their eve life ahead of their real life.

          • Nickator

            They have done exactly that several times… and lost.

      • Raiden. bitch

        go to high sec then… there are no supers :) )))

        • bagehi

          I have a super. I'm not being stubborn about fighting the mechanics of the game. Doesn't mean I like this particular mechanic in the game. Every time the super has been fielded has been an extremely big waste of a few hours of my life while I watch white bars slowly turn red. Structure shoots are not an engaging mechanic, CCP has gotten away with keeping that mechanic in the game because of supers. Supers are bad because structure shoots are terrible. Because structure shoots are terrible, supers (now designed specifically for them) are bad.

          • DeviouslyBaking

            U Mad Bro? If you guys didn't use loldrakes to structure shoot that wouldn't be an issue, oh right you fielded your supers last night, but supers are bad because your 1300 people can't alpha them :(

          • bagehi

            Not sure if you've noticed this, but I haven't been in the same alliance or coalition throughout the entire game. I've flown in super blobs and against them. I've been in cap battles. I could care less about the goon propaganda against supers (I've shot goons more often than flown with them after all). My complaint is that supers, because of what they are and what they are designed to do, make the game boring.

          • Devore

            Not sure why you feel you have to keep explaining yourself to anklebiters.

          • alachazam

            two tottaly different things bagehi.

            I agree, Supercaps are meant and should shoot structures effectively, but then again, a Titan tracking a BS and even smaller ships with such ferocity in damage is insanely imbalanced.

          • bagehi

            Structure shoots are boring. The tracking titan "i win" button is ridiculous. Both are two sides of the same coin: supers (in their current design) are bad for the game.

          • anonymous

            The tracking is only "I win" against goons because you don't know how to fly anything else but battleships and high sig battlecruisers. They won't hit tengus or ahacs unless they are webbed down and target painted. So sorry that your alpha maels actually have a counter and can't alpha titans.

          • bagehi

            What's this "you" and "your" stuff? Ohhh… you think I'm in Goonswarm. I'm not.

          • Gumpin

            Not linking the dead frigates killed by titans as a comeback?

          • anonymous

            No, I know you are in Test who are with goons in this campaign and since goons lead the campaign you therefore get included in the general you and your of the cfc.

          • anonymous

            http://www.evenews24.com/2012/02/21/a-tengus-v-pl… but wait I thought supercaps tracked everything.. sorry your battleships get owned goons but how about you adapt like AAA does instead of whining like goons always do.

          • James Bond

            Couldn't agree more with this. Titans should only be effective against other supers or structures. Either that or dumb them down to the point where they are not immune to any kind of ECM. Field a Titan risk getting jammed/disrupted/dampened etc etc.

            Only real counter to Tits is counter dropping more. Anyone who says otherwise just wants cannon fodder to shoot at.

          • shaderp

            Every time the super has been fielded has been an extremely big waste of a few hours of my life while I watch white bars slowly turn red.

            if you fit reps on you super the rats wouldnt hurt it

          • bagehi

            Ratting would actually feel slightly more rewarding than structure shoots. I've never ratted with anything larger than a BS though, and really haven't ratted at all in nearly a year now. Haven't needed to and no sane person would rat if they didn't need to.

  • AndyTibs

    Maybe one day we will start seeing supers on both sides of a big battle…

    • AAA Whos that

      Good luck with that. Eve has slowly become a bunch of mamby pamby "leaders" who couldn't lead RL men out of a wet paper bag, who constantly polish their e-peen, beat their chests, whine about super blobs and at the end of the day cower in a corner when someone brings theirs first.

      First team to bring supers wins. All the hand-wringing "What do we do now banter on TS takes too long to form a proper response.

  • SUPERFIGHTNIGHT.

    here is what needs to happen.

    goon go get all your supers.

    PL you as well.

    and all the other people that might have supers.

    and

    MANY WILL ENTER ONE WILL LEAVE

    • Qwerty4812

      everybody will lose

      • Kratisto

        no everyone would kill the goon supers, hi five, and we would be back where we started cept goons lose their structure-killing machines

  • Carlos

    LOL Goons are hypocrites. So its NOT ok when supers are used on Goons BUT its ok when used by Goons! You got to laugh at this XD

    • Just A Random TESTie

      Major difference between Titans tracking subcaps and Titans tracking sieged Dreads. Just saying.

      • fuck goons

        not when your flying BCs with perma run MWD you fucking moron, JUST SAYIN… ur a faggot

        • butte

          kill yourself nigger

  • Tomas
    • http://evenews24.com riverini

      Added, thank u very much.

    • obvious is obvious

      I like how you cut out voice comms just as your aggro the guys that brought you to the fight. classy

  • Pirokobo

    As has been said, GSF is extremely cautious about deploying capitals. Unless there is no possibility of escalation, they won't do it because escalation will never be to their advantage.

    The comparison between GSF and -A- of old is very apt. GSF will ONLY initiate an attack on their own terms and that doesn't mean having an advantage. They'll throw thousands of ships away but they do so because that is how they have decided it shall be. Accomplishing nothing while risking nothing is still fighting on their terms.

    When capitals are involved, they still fight on their own terms but in that case their terms are unilateral victory or no deal. They'll drop, but only if they'll win. Not might win or should win but WILL WIN. Any other outcome is to them not worth the risk.

    • Urziel99

      ^^ That guy gets it. Why risk a billion isk on a carrier or dread when I could easily get 15 guys into fitted drakes for the same amount of cash?

      Anyone who has a positive IQ only brings out heavy firepower on their terms. The point is to compel them to movement, not to be compelled by others.

  • http://Lostpodtrader.blogspot.com Zandramus

    Supers are fine the way they are, all these super haters … People who would call for supers to be nerfed don't have enough brain cells to rub together to realize that supers are now incredibly easy to kill. If you want to kill a super all you have to do is train up a dictor pilot, bubble the shit out of it and then get on the batphone for all the killmail whores to come kill it.

    This is the reason people are not fielding supers, don't listen to the tin foil hat squad or the en24 propagandists.

    Zandramus

    • bagehi

      Bull. I spent 3 hours outside a station with my super and a tackler alt, jacking things that undocked. The poor fools I was killing tried to batphone a few times, but were told "not killing him, we're blue" by everyone they tried – then some contacted me to see if they could join me (idiots kept feeding me haulers full of various shiny). This is common.

      Supers usually don't die because someone out maneuvered them, they die when a super pilot or FC combines mistakes with bad luck. I don't whine about supers while cowering in front of them, I complain about them because I fly them and they are ridiculous and terrible end game play.

    • shaderp

      never been in a fleet that got 50+ titans dropped on it?

      • BETA BABY

        You say an FC that isn't aware of 50+ hostile titans online is correct to maintaining his subcap presence? No, he made the decision (incorrectly) to procede; most likely form lack of intell and therefor planning.
        '
        Supers usually don't die because someone out maneuvered them, they die when a super pilot or FC combines mistakes with bad luck. I don't whine about supers while cowering in front of them, I complain about them because I fly them and they are ridiculous and terrible end game play.
        '

  • failtopic

    There needs to be a battle with all supers in game and the winner can just win eve already

  • OLD NC.
    • thatsourdiesel

      I got on the KM o/

  • -A- FC

    Always hide your strength until you know you can deliver a killing blow, only the foolhardy or braggarts deploy their full strength to the first fight.

    • sunnydaze

      "hide" strength?? Ever heard of "Spies"? Nothing is "hidden" anymore. Not committing to win at the outset is just being risk averse. End of story.

      NB: American war history is proof. Had the US committed fully in the last 2 or 3 serious conflicts, they might have won or at the very least, done the job sooner.

  • xcxc
  • Goonies

    The supers were already in system, a ragnarok disconnected on the hostile pos as the rest of their supers were warping out and the dreads dropped it.

  • evenews is the worst

    I could be wrong, but the impression I got from this battle report was that the CFC did in fact bring their supers first.

  • Gumpin

    Everyone's talking strategy when this is all just some simple sun tzu shit.

  • BAMbam

    Do goons not use supers because pretty much ever since their inception they've been fighting the battle of Numbers Vs Elites?

    Wouldn't Gewns be selling out their cultural identity by turning into Raiden and fielding 100+ supers?

    Or it could just be gewns are terrible at eve and know that their super fleet would just get welped…

  • Marcus_McTavish

    The reason why goons dont use supers in big fights with raiden is because while raiden super pilots are like young adult gladiators, goon super pilots are like your great grandmother who has not even seen the sun in years, much less walk.
    If CFC commited supers in a big fight and lost. They would loss a lot of morale with the supers. Not to mention now super fights can actually be won, unlike the Northern Coalition Logoffski age.

  • thatsourdiesel

    Hey! That's my video! =)

    (The first one, from the point of view of my Muninn)

  • fuck goons

    goons are shit, bring your supers again I WILL EAT THEM FOR BREAKFAST!

  • CandybarHotrod

    These tactics have been used for centuries to reduce the moral level of the enemys. And the loyalty of the underlings towards their chief.
    There is no tactic more effective in reducing enemy loyalty and the will to fight then denying your enemies a high value kill. It breaks down the whole moral structure of warfare into a routine assignment which suppresses the confidence among the men you fight.

  • Allah Akbar

    Well there are a few obvious pointers here, Goon intel was accurate, an thats why they actually dropped supercaps. If RDN. had there supercaps within reasonable range then Goons would never have dropped supercaps, this is obvious chaps. Goons bringing out supercaps for a change is no big deal, they're only dropping when they are 110% sure they are not going to get in any shape or form,any real resistance. I will say though, Goons intel seems to work wonders for them, so even though they are just a mass blob of noobs with a few people with brains,that good intel is 1 of the 2 good things CFC has going for them.So fact still remains that Goons are terrible Supercap pilots,an they are still too pussy to use them in an actual fight! FACTS

  • Ambassador Delenn

    Bagehi; Riverini's death had nothing to do with a tracking titan. I would know, since I wasn't the one in the bubble (see video). I understand how much a ragnarok looks like an erebus, but hey no ones perfect.

    Also I fit rails to my titan to hit Riverini at 180km, because I saw he had zero transversal, and I had no tracking mods. But hey I guess it was a "lucky" shot, oh and nerf titans.

    • http://evenews24.com riverini

      I wasn't in bubbles I was already with the warp thing on my speed meter when the titan threw the final blow on me.
      http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=125…

      check final blow and top damage.

      • Ambassador Delenn

        You could always read before you post. I never said you were in bubbles, I said you had zero transversal. I threw the final blow on you which was 72% of your damage taken.

        More of my problem is that I was never tackled. A ragnarok was, but you should know that, you were there. Also the idea that goons tried to save a rzr titan that was never in trouble. They were there from the begining.

        • http://evenews24.com riverini

          My alt, shambs, went tru the titan blob and dropped 2 dubbles in tandem on top of them, overheated and managed to warp out.

          as i said i was still aligning, i was perfectly out of bubbles and yeah u got lucky.