Writing in the guise of a character from EVE Online, Seismic Stan is the author of the scattershot bloggery found herein. He is also the co-creator of the Tech4 News podcast and website, former co-host of Voices From the Void podcast and writer of Incarna: The Text Adventure.
Freebooted: Power Gamers vs. Content Seekers
“Powergaming (or power gaming) is a style of interacting with games or game-like systems with the aim of maximising progress towards a specific goal, to the exclusion of other considerations such as (in video games, boardgames, and roleplaying games) storytelling, atmosphere and camaraderie.”
Since the good ship CCP steered away from the oncoming iceberg of customer dissatisfaction last Summer, it has become clear that a new course has been plotted. EVE Online has enjoyed a far more comfortable journey in recent months, with the recent re-focusing onto improving creaky systems and giving the decks a much needed polish. It is understood that the intention is to continue with this embellishment.
However, the new course plotted is now unclear. However fanciful, the previous destination of “ultimate sci-fi simulator” at least gave everyone involved something to look forward to/speculate on/bitch about (delete as applicable). Although the destination may still ultimately be the same, the route is certain to have changed now. Especially since the tiny waypoint destination of Incarna was found to be populated by a hostile native tribe of agoraphobic graphics-card eaters. The ship’s Captain and his command crew are understandably going to be far more cautious about sharing travel plans with their passengers for fear of building up too much expectation (again).
My concern is that after reaching for the stars and tripping over their own avatar, CCP may now become risk-averse, being content to simply follow the safe path of least resistance. With reduced resources after the 20% layoffs, is CCP’s primary means and method of reading “what the player wants” through the CSM as discussed in The Squeaky Wheel of Player Power?
This is not entirely a bad thing, with the strong null-sec alliance representation there, CCP can get great feedback from individuals in-tune with tens of thousands of players. The problem is, all those players are from the same corner of the sandbox. Will this influence affect the focus and direction of EVE’s future development? If so, is it right that it should?
Some of the People, All of the Time
With much of the low-hanging fruit addressed, one of CCP’s stated development targets is to focus on Faction Warfare. In Crucible 1.1, the ability to introduce entire alliances into Faction Warfare was implemented. I’d be interested to hear from long-time Faction Warfare participants as to whether this is considered to be a good thing or not. My concern is that it may be indicative of a null-sec-lite trend.
Is the future of EVE one where every aspect of the sandbox is to be optimised for the use of null-sec alliances or equivalent sized meta-groups? Is the diversity of EVE’s player base to be abandoned in favour of a homogeneous environment that can only be enjoyed to its fullest extend by powergamers? If this is to be the case – and there are signs – I’d certainly like to know.
With this concern in mind, I attempted to get something out of “Ship’s Captain” CCP CEO Hilmar Pétursson on Twitter today:
Hilmar Veigar: Any highlights from the weekend #tweetfleet?
Freebooted: @HilmarVeigar We’ve been discussing the future development of EVE and the influence players may have. How would you describe the road ahead?
Hilmar Veigar: @Freebooted the road ahead is exciting and along the lines we have talked about publicly, fanfest is the moment to talk about it in details.
Freebooted: @HilmarVeigar Would you say the “exciting road ahead” is the safe road or the brave road? I look forward to hearing the details at Fanfest.
Given his artfully empty answer to my first question, I was not surprised that he did not answer my second. Maybe he was just busy.
Are You a Content Seeker?
Firstly, I would like to clarify my definition of “content seeker”. These are not necessarily just players who can be labelled and dismissed as “roleplayers” or “carebears” (although I’m sure the skim-readers will still assume that to be the case). There are many null- and low-sec combat pilots with an appreciation for the lore of EVE and the layers of immersion beyond the performance-obsessed powergamers.
From the perspective of a casual player or an outsider there is a beguiling darkness and a sense of wonder in simply moving through New Eden and being overwhelmed by the detail. Roleplayers certainly tap into that and build beyond it, but that is a niche within a niche. At the opposite end of the spectrum are the min/maxers for whom the enjoyment is in the DPS and the kill:death ratios. They don’t give a rat’s arse about the backstory.
The wider, middle area in this player spectrum is the new and/or casual players who have the overwhelming sense of “so much going on” because they are not yet judging and dismissing aspects of the game as we more established players are inclined to. They still have that sense of awe and wonder. To them, the fact that there are cadres of RPers out there somewhere pushing the storyline forward whilst conversely in the far-reaches there are thousands of null-sec soldiers participating in an endless grand bloodbath IS part of the immersion.
My point is that with the right marketing, both ends of the spectrum could be equally powerful motivators for people to get involved in EVE Online. However, presently only one end is being properly identified and exploited.
The Strangled Soul
Are there currently enough content-seekers to justify some more development resources to be thrown that way? Who knows? CCP Diagoras perhaps? However, I would say that if there is not, that would be down to CCP’s failure to adequately invest in that aspect of EVE Online. They have endlessly marketed their grand fleet battles, their “player-driven narrative” and the news-baiting grand cybercrimes. Meanwhile, they’ve sacked their IP manager, weakened the content and writing teams and are operating with a reduced-strength community team.
I appreciate that running an MMO is all about the subscriber numbers. It may be that the number of players who enjoy the less hardcore military aspects of EVE are too few too carry any real weight and it has to be accepted that the imagination-bereft powergaming min/maxers are the future of EVE.
At what point does letting players generate their own content just mean lazy development strategy? Is EVE Online on its way to becoming a soulless World of Fleet Fights?
If EVE’s development were synonymous with the BSG story arc, we’re midway through Series 4 – Earth has been discovered, but it’s a desolate shithole and Adama needs to find a new long-term inspiration for the human race. Are you listening Hilmar?
- Seismic Stan.
[spoiler show="Clarification for null-sec players"][A Clarification for Null-Sec Players: Before you entirely miss my point and interpret this as a rant against large fleet fights, I would like to clarify that I understand sov-war has its own brand of story and excitement and is a jewel in EVE's crown. My point is that I wouldn't want EVE's development to lose sight of the fact that there are other aspects to EVE that should not remain under-developed. I fear development is veering too far toward the appeasement of powergamers as a reaction to the Incarna rejection. I am not saying that their concerns should not be addressed, simply that there should be a balanced approach.]
[/spoiler]
If you would like to send intel or contribute, feel free to use the form below:
[spoiler show="Submit Intel Here"]
[/spoiler]
New things are cool and all but we've had about nine years of shiny new things.
I think stopping for a bit to whip out the Brasso and buff off the dustier pieces of EVE would be very warranted.
CHUCK NORRIS APRROVED, BTW POS MANAGEMENT NEEDS REBUFFING AMONG OTHER THINGS.
Agreed – new content may be better at attracting new players, but that needs to be weighed against the loss of players who are sick of the persistent avoidance of polish.
Yeah, I agree with you both. In the article above, I'm not for a minute suggesting that the iterations stop – far from it. So much needs improving and polishing as you both say. My point is that I wouldn't want the focus of these iterations (and the entirety of subsequent expansions) to be focused on the "powergamer" lobby. There should be something for other play-styles too.
Yep.
I'd like to see some more polish in this next patch.
Address POS, Faction Warfare, Exploration, Sov Mechanics, Bounties, Escro Scamming, and a few others.
After that, I'd prefer if 50% of focus would be set on further refinement and polish with 50% set to new content. Without innovation the draw of new players to replace the churn of quiters will drive EvE into a downward spiral resulting in *gasp* Free-To-Play or even worse retirement of the game all together.
I would like corp management to be refined. Jokes about spreadsheets aside, no one ever liked Access and I'm pretty sure that 23,000 years into the future the various human civilizations can find a better way. Now it is as intuitive and smooth as wearing Hulk hands during neurosurgery.
lol it's true.
Also agreed. There needs to be polish on all features, whether those features are aimed at powergamers or content seekers.
Having said that, a large portion of the content is player generated as it is, which shouldn't ever change (it better not!).
I am sick of the Level 4 missions. Always the same old tired scripts. I am not saying to remove the current missions, but maybe add a few each year? And what the fuck is everything designed for huge fleets? If I never fly in a big fleet again it will still be too soon.
I play because I dream of success. Success at a trade like industrial management, invention, mining, manufacturing. I have no desire to ruin anybody else's day. so if PVP went away I would be very happy.
Eve may be a MMO, but its not a "social game". In fact, I would call it an "Anti-social behavior simulator". I like the skill system, and the markets and the contract system. But the one-pointed pursuit of gank offers me no chance of success. If thats all this game is then rename it Eve Killing Machine" and I will look for some other game that more closely resembles a sci-fi space simulator.
Why are Incursions ALWAYS Fucking Sansha? No other rat faction ever going to get in to these? Might take the formulas out of the way people run these.
I imagine content the way you want it is equal to faction warfare and a host of other things of that size and nature. Its hard to get the big improvements you want, but maybe papercuts would be done if possible.
Otherwise good luck.
You can only throw so much new content into the game before you have to go back and fix what you broke, and some things that aren't, but enough people bitch about changing em you better fix it anyways. In the long term, Incarna will be looked at as a template of what not to do in an expansion. Crucible, the saving grace of a large amount of long time players, was great for keeping subscriptions, but not designed to bring in new ones. You have to look at this at a medical point of view, you have to stop the bleeding and sew up the wounds before you can start doing liposuction and the nose job. What the next step from crucible is, I don't even think the dev's truly know, but we will see a more corporate response to some of the rising problems in eve, mostly do to CCP's evolution from a basement company to a full blown game design corporation. The good will always be taken with the bad, and judging by CCP's response to the latest rising set of problems, there should be a bright future in store.
I certainly hope for a bright future and as I said elsewhere, I'm not suggesting that it should be an either/or situation. Iteration should continue, but so should the bold plan. I wouldn't want last year to diminish CCP's swagger, making them play safe forever more.
Well said, sir. I never thought that developing three dimensional models really added that much to the game, I was totally happy with a 2-d headshot for my character portrait. The Captains Quarters was much more difficult to use than the old 2-d interface. But the long blocks of text that are supposed to be agent conversations would benefit from recorded spoken talent and a 3d character to tell you about the mission. Also, why is there no more new music being developed? I remind CCP that sound is more immersive than pictures for many people.
One more thing? Capital ships should need several players to operate. Captain, Engineer, Tactical and Shield/Repper. EW would be another duty station. In event of a lost connection the system would maintain the station until the missing player returned or was replaced. Stations can be replaced by the Captain. This would seriously complicate the deployment of Capitals and seems a fair balancer.
I enjoy the freedom of EVE, I enjoy writing my own history in this game through my actions and participation in player generated events. I don't care much about the stories that happen on planets or in empires because I'm a pod pilot. I'm a immortal demigod searching for my own fortune and prosperity. Why should I care about the lowlifes of EVE, the cattle that is crawling like vermin through my ships? Yes they, might keep my ship functional, but that is the one and only purpose of their lives.
Dare to be bold pilot, dare to be bold.
I'm an evil power gamer, what are you?
ur so edgy and hardcore xD
I simply watched the EVE intro and play according to that.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QBZqE6Ltws
High Sec. L4 Missions. Who cares about new content and what the CSM think or think they are making happen.
CCP wants your money and all I care about is high-sec'ing it up in my lovely L4's making ISK.
The sooner the idiots of null-sec finish crying that CCP won't help to force us "Carebears" into null (Since everyone knows null sec is as boring as EVE gets). We can all carry on mining our veldspar and running our L4's in peace. LONG LIVE HIGH-SEC!
Um, not what I was getting at. At all.
were did the evil man touch you?
Do your thing dog.
If that's what floats your hull.
Hey, i just read that entire wall of text (some of it twice) and dont know what the writers 'point' was…
Can someone reply and let me know the point?
Or was that 5 story wall of text just a list of barely associated questions the writer has and the vauge opinions or speculations he has?
In a few words: He wants more themes in the park.
Apologies if that wasn't clear. Essentially my message is: I'd like to see CCP support all avenues of gameplay, not just those elements considered to be safe post-Incarnagate.
The idea of CSM sounded great when I started playing EVE. A game that allows for players to be heard by the company. Almost four years later with the collusion, interdiction, drama, and scandal. It's nothing more than Epeen. I still believe that the fixes most likely come from blogs and forums. Do you feel represented? With the power bloc candidates being from null. Is it fixed yet? Git rid of them. I'm sure that CCP can find someone to drink with. The game is divided into two basic groups. The basshats and the ears. Both screaming for the other to play "their" game. HTFU how 'bout STFU. BTW just curious does the CSM at times get a deer in the headlight look from CCP and hear, "We no speak the English"?
A harsh assessment of the CSM I think. Personally I'd sooner the system exist than not, even with its flaws. They can do little harm, but may do some good. Especially if CCP adopt your Suddenly Foreign strategy.
Examples of the backstory being awesome: [youtube yEmLcoRpCEo www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEmLcoRpCEo youtube] Also see the three other races videos.
Suffice to say,the backstory to a game is capable of being very engageing, and is a necesity in an MMORPG, emphasis on RPG. The content of EvE comes into view as soon as you start playing: What race do you want? For me, it was Gallente that held appeal, being the percieved 'good guys'. Then I found out they were of French descent, ugh. Cheese eating surrender monkeys. But I digress….
Without the flavor it adds, you may as well request CCP makes MS Excel the engine EvE runs on. Example: The way ships look even, is based on that factions backstory. The Minmatar ships look like piles of scrap metal because they had to scrape things together to make em. Caldari ships are hideous because, hey, if it works.
In short, I think the fluff is more prevalant, more integrated, than some people realize or give credit. Therefore, game elements that depend on fluff, i.e. faction warfare, deserve an update, and the story a little more love.
Gallente would be a lot more gay if it was descended from Americans. And fat. And stupid.
France loved America so much they killed their king, turned their flag red white and blue, and gave us a french woman to stand around the corner of new york.
I think I will archive this quote for eternity.
Very nicely written. I could tell somebody with a brain wrote it because I didn't have to re-read sentences and tilt my head sideways in order to get the meaning out of them (like I often have to do on this site.) You said a lot of things that have been brewing in my brain that I just couldn't articulate. Nicely written and I think you may be right the over-emphasis on powergaming…I'm currently rethinking my gaming strategy right now.
Thanks.
Well the actual story missions in eve aren't really all that good. just a brick of text and a bookmark out in space with some rats at it. And if I want amazing quests I'll probably play whatever single player RPG is out these days. Dragon Age 1 was pretty fun, so were the new Fallout games, Skyrim….. was a giant Norse blur to me, and there is a new Mass Effect coming out.
What makes eve interesting, is the emergent player politics from all the people playing it. Good grief just look at the site you are on. But yeah the great content in eve comes from the sandbox not from random quests.
That's why people lose interest in WoW and that new star wars thing after a while, but keep playing eve.
Good points well made. I have an RL buddy who was looking forward to SW:TOR like it was the only game that was ever gonna be worth playing, and then it comes out as a single player experience where the only place you can hook up with a buddy is entirely free of content and utterly meaningless, that is a criminal waste of possibly the best IP in history. I lol'd.
you call fucking /emoting avatar dressup soul? content? gameplay?
tell me how does the above fit in eve?
I think you missed the point.
this is bullshit:
every player in eve is a content seeker. even powerplayers. theres only a difference between player created content and content provided by CCP like Missions or Incursions. Eve is unique because no other mmo out theres is able to provide so much player created content.
All CCP has to do is providing people more tools to create more player owned content.
Anything else will only attract people who play MMOs like a Singleplayergame. And thats not what eve needs.
"Bullshit" is a little strong. I agree in the grand Venn diagram of eve playstyles there are very few 100% powergamers or content-seekers. I was simplifying for effect in the title. However the actual message is more nuanced.
Yes, it would be great if more tools were provided, like player corporations being able to set missions for or involving other corporations – so even the PvE is somehow linked to other players. But likewise, as a sandbox, the more conventional MMO experiences should be available – and iterated upon – too. There's no good reason to be exclusive. To do so flies in the face of the sandbox concept.
indeed it would be great if ccp could manage to provide (useful) player driven pve content. but as long as players take care about their content there will allways be players who force their will over someone else. even if its pve-content.
But forcing your will upon someone else is what makes eve somehow exclusiv. Its the reason why people play that game for so long and its (sadly) the reason why most people dont like eve and like playing those Singleplayer MMOs called WoW or SWTOR.
Then I would like to promote the idea of new and colourful ways for players to "force their will" on other players. Certainly everything should have that brutal EVE twist, I agree.
There are sandbox games that provide even more tools than EVE does. Like Ryzom for example. But these games usually lack the quality, support and development.
I used to be a content seeker like you, then I took a 1400mm Howitzer II to the knee.
(not targeted at the user above me)
In my opinion what those intrinsically good RPers want is to do something "great" like those intrinsically evil power gamers. Through their actions they make little change in EVE whilst power gamers create new fittings and tactics, and get horned by having their concepts copied by other large player entities.
RPers lack e-fame and apparently in a pretty desperate case. You can consider power gamers as admirals that play EVE as an RTS, which is perfectly fine, and content seekers as peons that fit in the large machinery of New Eden.
Granted, CCP should find ways so that content seekers are also able to "write history", but to be honest, it's the nature of things that admirals are most likely more powerful than peons.
And I'm still a power gamer and appreciate it very much that EVE doesn't shove its story down my throat until I want to puke, like other games do. EVE leaves you a choice, even if it's a pretty one sided choice when you want to reach high goals in the game.
content!
"…you may as well request CCP makes MS Excel the engine EvE runs on." – Brilliantly put. With regard to removing the flavour, isn't that essentially what happens in the larger null-sec battles? In order to obtain maximum client performance and the ability to understand and interact with the field of battle, the pilot is forced to turn down graphics, zoom out and fill his viewscreen with umpteen windows. That pretty much IS MS Excel at that point. They may as well remove all canonical names and just have ship type 1-200 and weapon type a-z, too.
I'm not decrying fleet combat as a playstyle though, if that's what folk enjoy. I appreciate that the satisfaction is from the long-term planning and the eventual victory. When I was younger, I used to enjoy play-by-mail games, that was much the same.
I actually came to EVE after reading the first EVE novel I happened upon in a Borders (may it rest in peace). I thought the stories, and what I came to find later, back stories on the site were interesting and immersive. I even read the latest novel, and quite enjoyed it. However, give a player enough time and the immersion turns to work. CCP is doing all they can to keep people playing, since getting people to play in a game as complex as EVE is very difficult, and the ones who bitch the loudest hail from Null.
I don't need a million responses about carebears and blah blah blah. I actually know why the nullies bitch the loudest, and kind of understand; there's a shit ton more content and goings on in null. It makes for more frustration. It also leaves for the type of bitching that comes from whiners losing ships over and over in an unsafe place. They may say null is not for the faint of heart, but they sure as shit go there by the load.
Being able to discern between the one's whining, and the ones who actually see what's wrong with mechanics is difficult, but the ones in high sec just don't care. We enjoy the game until some, usually from null, try to make it less enjoyable. So CCP hears little of high sec grief because it's all directed at the Null/pvp players. I feel like the insurance fix was the only "hey we didn't forget ya" us high sec'ers have gotten since I started playing. So the nullies should really quit bitching so much
Seems like a decent place to leave this link: Bartle Test of Gamer Psychology. Are you an explorer, socialiser, killer or achiever?
Different game features will appeal to different player types.
i think the sacking of tony gonzalez may not be a huge deal he is not that great of a writer anyways,
the eve cannon is more like a skeleton lacking in flesh but the basic premise is there and quite fantastic.
i really love the cannon of warhammer 40,000 and the great work Games Workshop has done in developing it's Black Library Publishing, great top notch writers (for their novels) and great audiobook productions. CCP could take a similar approach by getting more writers on a by-the-book commission, i don't think financing is an issue i mean it's not like Games Workshop is a huge megacorp or anything.
100% agreed with you on the writers.
I used to be a RP casual player for many years and i have follow the lore of the empires with alot of interest.
But after Quantom Rising everything went to a standstill.
For years now the only thing that has happen was the WH and the Drones in CE!!!
I mean, comon….
The example that the fellow poster made about Games Workshop with writers of the highest quality like Dan Abnett, Graham McNeill and Chris Wraight that they have on WH40K makes the fan to know about the Lore of the game and learn their heroes.
The same goes in WOW with Chris Metzen writing they have made a whole universe that attracts millions of subscribers just to be a part of it and believe me, they are not there for the PVP.
At the moment the only Lore we have on EVE online is TheMittani and nothing else.
Yes we have players that provide services and god knows so much else that help the community, but, you must become involve with Eve to get to know the workarounds.
CCP has no plot moving foward, no storytellers to push the myth envelope further.
For me the best thing they can do in all honesty is to hire Ian M. Banks.
That alone will double the subscriptions and instead of the I Was There, we will say the I Believe motto.
CCP needs to sort out the early mid game – Faction warfare and low sec was supposed to fill this in but doesn't. incremental gameplay is needed for small-medium corps to cut their teeth in doing what they want to do mining building killing missioning stealing.
End game is power play because that is the game CCP has made, not because we want to play it this way. Many people just end up doing fun frigate BC roams because end content grind/ blob turns into a snore fest quickly.
If then includes farming or raiding other peoples low sec 'illegal vs legal' activities for good fun isk and risk and has a real end to it 'own your low sec system cartel/ police state'.
If a similar system then evolves into an alliance empire management for 0.0 sov funded and run/raided/protected from the ground up by taxed small gang / industrial group activity (not purely moons and rent), I'd be a happy content guy.
Story telling is something the players can do with the right tools, but we need them, CCP can then just top up with random encounters and should spend more time (daily?) on running their excellent story based events with the tools they have developed.
And such is the nature of the sandbox. Lots of people don't care about strong RPG content anymore, but there's still a few. And that few can make the rest of the players enjoy the PVP rich environment that Faction Warfare could be. It might even be a reason to throw an alt in there.
You say "lots of people don't care" about content, but "there are still just a few". Do you have access to subscriber gameplay preference figures or are you making assumptions based on personal experience? Whilst it may be a minority, I'd like to see those ratios.
There seems to be alot of people confusing 'content' with 'features'. Eve's setting and backstory can be leveraged in more subtle and low cost ways than WiS. The new fiction portal and chronicles are out of game examples. But there needs to be more within the game else the world becomes very bland.
This!
Content is more a form of iteration than a new feature.