By riverini | Jun 16th 2011 10:56AM

115 Comments

CCP Announces Third Party Developers “Stimulous Package” – Goes the “Apple Way” for $99 a year of use of Intelectual Property content.

Get ready for a wall of text of epic proportions, as there is no TL;DR to properly explain the full extend of this issue.

The Intent

If there is something I have always have sharply criticized from Crowd Control Productions [CCP] is certainly their knack for leaving third party developers out in the open on their own, just as they have always done with every single expansion feature follow up, CCP’s lack of third party support has been the reason of closure for some of the most popular and well designed applications seen in eve, as shown by the Capsuleer and Eve-Metrics closures, sites like Dotlan, EVSCO, Battleclinic, K.com, Eve-Ru, Eve-Tribune, EveMon, EveHq, Eve-Central and even news services like Eve News24 has never seen support from CCP despite been an essencial part of the whole EVE gaming experience.

You are charging people who work for free to make your game better you asshats

Kronus Heilgar – EveO forums

Today CCP released what could be called a big “FUCK YOU” to most if not all third-party developers, by proposing to charge them a fee for the “privilege” to continue busting their asses fixing or closing the gaps left by CCP for free, here is the whole insult just in case you missed it.

Well, where should I start, first is the projected implications for such shortsighted and half-thought initiatives which are already making rounds beyond the thread-naught CCP started in their EVE-O forums, to the point that some thin-foil clad players reactions went as far as mentioning that this DevLog alone “justified” the recent LuLzSec attacks, while other equally aluminum-paper covered brains thought this as a “diversion”, a “smoke screen” to drive people’s mind out of the implications of an attacks like the one Bethesda suffered, a clear example of the wild speculations given the “ridiculousness” of this proposal (theory-crafting! in my EVE? never!).

Yet it is pretty understandable to see CCP’s desire to charge a fee for the use of their Intelectual Property [IP] on the grounds that some profit is being made out of it, because we all know how good CCP is protecting their [IP] when other players are literally making thousands of dollars per month off CCP’s back uncontested for years, or how much money can it be made by running third party sites, right?

Bitch, Please. rolls-eyes

I really feel CCP has finally “lost the bearing” after so much chest-beating during the past FanFest and finally managed to sees itself as the “Apple Inc.” of MMO gaming, you know, special, one-of-a-kind, magical and having such an base of avid third party developers apparently “willing” to spend long nights coding, making videos or reporting on stuff for the well being of Eve Online Game just for being the “great game that it is”, yet once we run a reality check, this last statement couldn’t be farther from the truth, as most of the third party tools are developed out of necessity rather than the result of the monolithic devotion for a company, it’s shortsighted ideas, ancient API and ill executed designs, if there exist any devotion from the third party developers is it to the Eve Online player community.

Paying for the privilege of doing CCP’s job

Live view from the eve-o dev threadnaught.

A good proof of this point would be Wollari’s Dotlan EveMap service, who we congratulate on the nativity of his first born (*cheers*), the service dating back the old days of eve is nothing short of a genius’ work, unrivaled by any other web-app, written for free and used daily by two thirds of the active Eve community who is always on the need for the intel that’s readily available yet un-processed by any CCP first party app. Eve-Kill is another excellent example of a site made out of the comunal need to see a verified and neutral kill-board, something that after almost 8 years into EVE, CCP haven’t been arsed to run of their on, let alone code a more efficient kill-board. Even this very site you are reading is the result of CCP’s inability to run a proper player run news service, yet now CCP intents us developers to pay a royalty for working out the community needs, to be honest am not surprised and I couldn’t expect less from a company like CCP.

A Thriving Elite: The GTC Cartel

A while back Czech Lion and I were looking for a way to pay our ever increasing hosting costs, specially in the aftermath of the first DDoS attack, on the other hand we both shared the fact that spending more than $200 per month on anything “video game related” was too much for two respectable gentlemen like us, so we went ahead and pitched CCP the idea to sell GTC’s and make some money out of it and pay some bills. Here is the email exchange for your reading pleasure, be advised: it’s a long read but a healthy warning to all those who would like to pursue a “partnership with CCP”.

[spoiler show="Show logs - (Warning extra long spoiler)"]

CCP DOESN’T DEAL WITH AMATEURS that means YOU EN24! How Czech and River pissed CCP.

A While ago, it occurred to Czech and Me to try to get a piece in the GTC business as resellers instead of referees to get some dough for better servers or pay writers, previously we had contacted CCP on October, our original plan was to ask CCP for 20Bil/mo in exchange for advertising, CCP’s response was that they didn’t make advertising with “fan sites” like ours and that the best they could offer was for us to put some banners and we were to get some referrals every time a NEW PLAYER signed up.

We counter proposed:

Hi Nick, i have read the details on the affiliate program and i have to say that we believe it would be counter producing to maintain an affiliate-based partnership with CCP. Please keep in consideration the fact that most of our visitors are “seasoned” existing CCP customers, the great majority of them with way over 10 mil SP and several accounts. I believe we have been misunderstood as a “fan-site” when in the end we are not, the genesis of the site have always been the relationship, politics and interactions at a player level, this is the same reason we do not discuss every single CCP devblog that get published (there are sites for that already) unless is something affect the current politics panorama.

We would like to offer you an impression based partnership, were CCP to be interested, we have a great volume of current customers which are daily bombarded with other “options” whenever they go to an MMORPG website, if it is of CCP’s interest to maintain a presence with us, working together to strengthen current customer’s loyalty, i believe we would be a better option than just bonding via an associate program.

Right now, we have already an in-game presence deal with a newcomer in the “gambling” business of EVE and we have the upcoming EVE Poker in the talks already, i mention these “advertisers” to highlight the “veteran” nature of their customer. These customers pay with in-game isk, which is used to pay part of the incentive we give to our most productive writers (the other part comes from my isk-grinding in-game wallet) which help to keep the website to keep triving.

One very interesting approach that we can offer you guys is the opportunity to ponder in themes that might not result of interest to [potential] new players, yet would be of extremely interest for seasoned players, like a campaign to donate PLEX for Africa, EON related stuff, Fanfest promotions, five days reactivation offers, brand strengthening stuff, maybe something with MSFT to get existing players to buy an xbox in preparations for DUST (wink! wink!), getting them to vote for the CSM or even a maintenance campaign to remind players the wonders of using GTC versus black market RMT. Just a couple of ideas.

Let us know what “options” do CCP takes into consideration for non-fansites, would be great to maintain something with you guys, if u want to advertise either for cold hard cash or in-game isk, it would be welcome and helping us to grow more. If that not the case, i would like to thank your guys in advance for keeping us for future consideration.
A week later, I make a phone-call to CCP and manage to talk to a duder i will name Nick, about a chance to sell GTCs directly and thus having a better deal than the 5% Shattered gives. He told me that they were considering it, and they will let us know.

We even had friends waiting to buy stuff from us.

So another month passes and we have no response, Czech and I came up with the great idea of making a complaint to CCP CEO, i sent the following email:

From: riverini
to: CCP CEO
Subject: EveNew24.com + CCP GTC sales.

Hello CCP CEO I hope you had a great holiday, this is Enrique known in-game as riverini, 5 months ago Czech Lion, known in-game as Czech Lion, and me decided to start running evenews24.com, a website which covers the daily political life in New Eden, against all expectations, the response from players has been tremendous, many of them collaborating as regular reporters and many more as one time contributors whenever the situation suits them to write an article.

Right now we have an universe of 84,000 unique visitors, accessing the website over 400,000 times, receiving over 1,050,000 exposures per month.

A month ago, we had started the initiative to delve into the Game Time Code market in the hopes of becoming a re-seller for CCP games, to date we haven’t got a single solid answer from CCP, even to the point of being lead to believe that CCP’s sales department is rather inexistent.

This lack of communication has resulted in potential loses since last month we had several fellow players who awaited until the last moment to spent thousands of US dollars into GTC’s, players which were more than willing to make purchases through us and in that way become supporters to the website.

Same situation with our late-november offer to give CCP exclusive premium MMO advertising space into the website, we were counter-offered with an “affiliate” program geared towards getting kickbacks from “new players” when in reality our main readership segment is comprised seasoned gamers, who live in Null-sec and are already hooked into the game, i quote my response.

[spoler]Hi Nick, i have read the details on the affiliate program and i have to say that we believe it would be counter producing to maintain an affiliate-based partnership with CCP. Please keep in consideration the fact that most of our visitors are “seasoned” existing CCP customers, the great majority of them with way over 10 mil SP and several accounts. I believe we have been misunderstood as a “fan-site” when in the end we are not, the genesis of the site have always been the relationship, politics and interactions at a player level, this is the same reason we do not discuss every single CCP devblog that get published (there are sites for that already) unless is something affect the current politics panorama.

We would like to offer you an impression based partnership, were CCP to be interested, we have a great volume of current customers which are daily bombarded with other “options” whenever they go to an MMORPG website, if it is of CCP’s interest to maintain a presence with us, working together to strengthen current customer’s loyalty, i believe we would be a better option than just bonding via an associate program.

Right now, we have already an in-game presence deal with a newcomer in the “gambling” business of EVE and we have the upcoming EVE Poker in the talks already, i mention these “advertisers” to highlight the “veteran” nature of their customer. These customers pay with in-game isk, which is used to pay part of the incentive we give to our most productive writers (the other part comes from my isk-grinding in-game wallet) which help to keep the website to keep thriving.

One very interesting approach that we can offer you guys is the opportunity to ponder in themes that might not result of interest to [potential] new players, yet would be of extremely interest for seasoned players, like a campaign to donate PLEX for Africa, EON related stuff, Fanfest promotions, five days reactivation offers, brand strengthening stuff, maybe something with MSFT to get existing players to buy an xbox in preparations for DUST (wink! wink!), getting them to vote for the CSM or even a maintenance campaign to remind players the wonders of using GTC versus black market RMT. Just a couple of ideas.

Let us know what “options” do CCP takes into consideration for non-fansites, would be great to maintain something with you guys, if u want to advertise either for cold hard cash or in-game isk, it would be welcome and helping us to grow more. If that not the case, i would like to thank your guys in advance for keeping us for future consideration.
No response after this, yet wargaming.net was more than willing to make concessions and thus is already having an exposure on the website despite the fact of being in Closed Beta.

This is the reason I write you, to know if should we desist in our efforts of creating a healthy partnership to promote CCP products and look for other companies in the line of work that might interest our readers or to know whom may i be referred to in the case the opportunity would still be existent.

If the latter is the case, I would really appreciate some direction on who to refer, since we have been trying to do something for over 2 months now and even phone calls haven’t been helpful at all.

Best Regards and Happy New Year

riverini
EN24 | www..evenews24.com

The guys from World of Tanks had been amazingly open in letting us do some referral to them, I basically took the chance to piss CCP off.

Funny thing is then u email a CEO, you get a response almost immediately, I haven’t tried it with Petitions but I guess it should work the same, I got this an hour after the previous email was sent, after a two month wait. I must warn you dear reader, The bitter was strong in this one.

Hi Riverini,

I am very sorry you felt that I provided you with no response or answers and you had to resort to this complaint to our CEO who doesn’t really deal with these things. As I have mentioned first time we spoke, I am responsible for Game Time Codes and I am the one who decides who will become our official partner in that business.

I will try to explain the situation again. At the moment we are NOT accepting any new partners. I believe I have said as much over phone. However, we are actively discussing the program and possibility of adding new EVE time code resellers where it make sense. If you recall our phone conversation, I said one of the things we would be looking for in new partners is support of additional payment methods among other things. Since we spoke last time I have had a series of meetings with our CFO, Sales Director and other key people in the company to discuss our ETC program and I actually brought up your case and asked if there is a way to support fansites as yours. We have made progress in those meetings, but more are needed.

I am currently away from the office due to health issues but we will continue meeting up on a weekly basis in January until we have enough data to make decisions. I realize the wait might be frustrating to you and you feel as if you are losing potential revenue, but there is not much that can be done unfortunately. You and 50+ other potential resellers that have approached me are in the same situation and simply have to wait a bit longer until we have made strategic decisions for ETC program.

As for the advertising, I directed you towards affiliate program since most of EVE Online fansites are participating and some have generated tens of thousands of dollars over the past years. It can be very successful way of generating revenue, but I understand your doubts. What I don’t understand however is why would you expect us to buy direct advertisement on an website that is dedicated as a fansite to EVE Online? Fansites are usually created and maintained by EVE individuals or a community that feels very loyal and positive about the game and wishes to improve the experience for themselves and others. I fully realize that running a website can be quite an effort and costly as well, but as a fansite admin, you cannot expect us to give you money just so you don’t advertise other games. This is actually first time where I have a case where EVE fansite is advertising other games.

You have a great website, and it is obviously popular which is excellent. I have looked at it myself few times and the content is very good. With the affiliate program for EVE, Eon magazines, EVE Store, or like you have been doing, Shattered Crystal or some other ETC resellers you would hopefully manage to generate enough revenue to cover all the costs. If you feel you have to resort to advertising other games, than that is your choice and I can’t really say anything about that. We are grateful that you took the effort to build it in the first place.

I hope this response explains current situation well. I have your contact details and once I have some news I will send you an update. Until then the answer will be the same, regardless who at CCP you try to talk to. All the best Enrique.

Best Regards,

Nick C.

I responded

From: riverini [email protected]>
Date: January 4, 2011 12:57:59 PM GMT-05:00
To: Nick C. [email protected]>
Cc: Czech Lion Kuchta [email protected]>
Subject: Re: EveNew24.com + CCP GTC sales.

Thanks for your reply and i really hope you get better health-wise.

Is very unlikely for us to be referring to Shattered Crystal or other ETC retailers in the website, because that’s just the reason we believe ETC retailing partners position hasn’t been opened recently, potential new retailers are forced into being simple referrers of existing retailers which almost sounds like a “cartel” to me and that would be something i would suggest to take into consideration whenever you guys might discuss it again.

Am pretty sure that am not the only one unwilling to break his back, so Shattered Crystal or anyone else make a buck for free, for that, i would preffer simply not offer the product.

Then we have the RMT and botting advertising issue, we have been approached by these guys offering hundreds of dollars to buy advertising space on the grounds our “target is their target”, asking us to link to websites which claims to be isk making guides and are no other than RMT and bot promoting pages, we have been very selective on this matter.

We have advertising space for World of Tanks, because they saw the offer and took it quickly and they have been agressively taking beta registrations for the rumored february open-beta launch:

massively.joystiq.com/2011/01…e-million-mar/

They are a completely different beast than you guys are, if they succeed that’s it. Regarding the costs, we have them easily covered as we do now, in part because of their support.

Anyways, I really apreciate you had given us the clearer view of everything.

Best Regards

Sent from us to them shortly after:

Just to let you know that after discussing it with my associate and seeing the inflexibility on this matter, we will desist in our desire to sell or even refer for GTC sales.

If the website becomes unsustainable, we’ll just sell or close the “fansite” and move on with other projects.

As the New Eden motto goes: “We didn’t want anyways.”

Sorry for any inconvenience to all the involved parties and wish you all to have a great new year.

Saludos,
R

After a while, Czech convinced me to put some GTC referrals, EN24.com is a shared site and he has as much voice/vote as I do. We might move into AdWords soon. So CCP won this round.

a while after I get this email

—- Original Message —–
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 5:11 PM
Subject: EveNews24 and CCP

Hello,

My name is xxxxxxxxx, and I am the new kid on the block in the EVE Online community team. First of all, let me congratulate you on your milestone – a million views per month is pretty impressive, and we believe you are doing a great job. In particular, some of the battlereports posted on EveNews24 are simply amazing, and we would really like to promote and support the high-quality ones.

I have a few ideas how do to it but I’d like to hear your opinion first, and whether you would be interested in doing something together at all. CCP would be delighted to promote these excellent battle reports for many of our players who do not get to experience fleet warfare and possibly pique their interest.

Looking forward to hearing from you,

- Hide quoted text -
xxxxxxxxxx
Russian Community Coordinator
EVE Online

I sent him the whole quoted email chain, no response yet… 2 months ago.

So, our attempt was a complete failure, and we kinda pissed CCP’s guys in doing so, looking back and as a fervent Catholic I am, I have to say that “God knows why he does what ever he does”, having an agreement with CCP would had put limits and shackles on our reporting, several articles wouldn’t had been even published or had we, we would have to think twice before posting something that could harm CCP.

The hundred and so dollars we pay for hosting? TBH that’s a small price to pay for the liberty of not being compromised to keep CCP in a good light and there is fact of being more than one way to pay for hosting fees (we setting up google adsense next month) and looking by our Shattered Crystal referrals, it wasn’t worth the trouble either.

I hope u had enjoyed the story.

[/spoiler]

EN24 ended up putting up the Shattered Crystal advertisement out of Czech’s insistence as co-owner rather than necessity (as receiving $20/mo average ain’t paying our bills but sure it helps) and not partnering with CCP turned out a great deal because it shaped our “no holds barred” policy of exposing everything, including CCP’s misdoings. Yet there is the the bitter taste of defeat for trying to make a buck the legit way, us being left under the impression that someone in CCP is getting kickbacks for keeping a market closed to newcomers (as in a cartel) and seeing how up to this day the promises of opening the GTC market haven’t been fulfilled, everything is a big O.K. so far right “Nick”?.

Does this mean we are all bounds to CCPs rules?

The reach of CCP’s imperceptive new change in politics opens the door for sites like Dotlan, EVSCO or EN24 to have to justify any actions CCP consider objectable while at the same time gives CCP the opportunity to have a saying on third-party organizations, for example:

- Does being subject to a “license” expose any webapp, website or forum to reprisals for what CCP could consider “breaches on the ToS or EULA” when reporting them in a bad light, promoting exploits or simply doing anything seen as undesirable by CCP?

- If I were to advertise another game, let’s say Star Trek Online, would CCP forbid me from advertising when local laws forbids me from barring any willing advertiser from doing advertising? (I ripped a wormhole in your browser there, I know), if that not being the case, what stops me from advertising RMT related sites in the spirit of self-sustainability?

- Let’s not even commence the ways this opens up for legitimized Real Money Trading for “in app” transactions, I bet the big players have their minds on fifth gear already on how to make the most out of this.

- Being that the case, should we all be forced to “open our books” to CCP from now on?

- Would I be subject to a new EULA every time CCP released a new Eve “beta” a.k.a. “expansion” of Eve Online, which would mean they could re-shape the EULA to change the rules as they please?

Paving the way for Official paid CCP apps.

This project is not about CCP making money. Whether we charge $100 or $50 or $10 for a commercial license won’t make a big difference to our balance sheet. $99 is the lowest that we estimated that we could reasonably go and still justify the cost of the service. If this is too high for app developers, this is something that could possibly be revisited.
CCP Atlas – CCP’s forum cannon fooder.

This is were a CCP representative tries to treat it’s customers as uneducated peasants, first if money is involved and it’s going to CCP, then it’s about money, secondly CCP Atlas claims this devlog to be a “draft” of the soon(tm) to be proposed final “Third Party Monetization Program” by their BizDev team, who up to this point in my mind is a room full of Eve Online ignorant people, not too different from the poor soul they have attending the phone in their Reykjavík HQ, with the twist that the BizDev has a monthly money-making ideas quota. The draft proposes a “service” which is never stated on beyond using the crippled EVE api and the [IP] rights, seem to be more of a testing the waters for what could be peripheral paid CCP apps rather than giving out developers actual “gifts”:

We will continue to provide technical assistance via the Technology Lab forum and IRC channel, but CCP does not offer formal technical support to developers or warrant the API in any way. It’s provided as is.

I swear am having a Deja Vú here.

As time has shown, big companies have always put the well being of the little guys, before their own interests. 0.o

Rather than Apple, it’s more like mid-90′s MSFT

Finally there is this scenario, what if CCP finds out I make enough money to pay over $3,000/mo on DDoS protection (as battle-clinic was rumored to be during the 2011 fanfest), how can I compete against a CCP first party project when all I have to work is an archaic API, no formal technical support or API warrants, something that CCP surely have. It will be only a matter of time before CCP sets their own shop and suddenly announce how in the interest of progress they “will stop supporting the EVE API 1.0″.

“CCP promoting unfair third-party competition/monopoly! Never! erhm wait let me read those GTC mail logs again.”

It’s a matter of perspective

I don’t like the idea to force people to pay the 99$ license fee if they’re providing a free service to the community

Wolari – Dotlan.net

There are however fair instances where we do not only understand CCP’s position of charging a yearly retainer for the use of their intelectual property but would actually encourage it, a position which evemaps’ Wollari expressed perfectly in a related exchange we had:

About the 99$ thing: A commercial license so people can actually charge RL money for apps, mobile apps (0,99$ on iphones, etc) or premium services makes perfectly sense. It would provide a clear and clean guideline how people can make money. I don’t like the idea to force people to pay the 99$ license fee if they’re providing a free service to the community and getting money to optional and no service related donations or advertising, and of course … apps and services for ingame concurrency (money that CCP already has) shouldn’t require a commercial license either. Having a license for RL money apps, subscriptions and services is a great start that will bring light the currently dark zone. Everything else should stay as it is currently, So yes for payment apps but no for free services. A commercial license from CCP that allows people to charge money would help, the license is good, but forcing that every community site has to pay the license fee has nothing to do with community anymore.
Wolari – Dotlan.net

I couldn’t have said it better myself.

You are mad for having to pay the 100 bucks a year? if not why so jelly?

Typical Eve News24 commenter

Here is what we do stand for, for a site like Eve News24 which is a proven and on-going project, the $99/year fee might look very reasonable, heck if even give us further the ‘face’ to one day show up our readers with a website full of annoying ads, but for the small guy it’s a complete different story, while some would say that the initial fee is free, and we know it is , the small third party Developer is immediately “bound to an EULA/TOS” which is a *bitch* in most if not all cases, specially for newer or semi-private projects and the rules of the game are bound to change every time CCP releases a new EULA/TOS and leave the way open to circumvent “Fair Use” copyright laws.

But it’s not all bad news, at least we have the outlook of CCP to keep “celebrating” the creative player not once or twice, but more than ever as they are now setting the rules to forcibly make a buck out of them and make them victim of their own success.

[spoiler show="Ooh-ray!"]

thanks to Bernadictus for this.[/spoiler]

“Sent from my iDevice”
R

Chribba’s response to the threadnaught:

Send us Intel/Corrections via dropbox or shoot us an e-mail

7926115 Comments2011-06-16+09%3A56%3A34riverini

Former NC

Fucking disgusting. I especially wonder how someone like the mighty Chribba is going to react to this, when you consider just how much he does – and for free!

June 16, 2011 at 11:56 am Reply
1. riverini
  
  Posting his must READ post in a moment.
  
  Edit: done.
  
  June 16, 2011 at 12:01 pm Reply
enjoysNews

ccp sux

June 16, 2011 at 12:16 pm Reply
Glenn

Perhaps its a reaction to the DDOS, trying to limit API server usage to "certified" applications.
Perhaps it also helps them enforce "misuse" of their IP by scammers/ebays ?

CCP needs to communicate their motives better, but its not the end of the work yet.

P.S. I love you 3rd party app developers.

June 16, 2011 at 12:29 pm Reply
1. someone
  
  I'm more inclined to the DDos are a reaction to the capitalist approach from CCP.
  Since you only need to phone them and ask them to dDos Eve, I bet we will see this happening every night now!
  
  Specially this weekend with the AT9 finals… Will not be admired if we get a dDos at Saturday 15 EVETime that only stops sunday!!
  
  June 16, 2011 at 12:53 pm Reply
  1. riverini
    
    don't give them ideas for the love of god!!!
    
    @__@
    
    June 16, 2011 at 12:58 pm Reply
    1. Allo
      
      pfft why not, f***ers wanna screw us!! CCP thinks they got such a amazing game on it's own. Well CCP a ton of us play your games because of the community feel, which is greatly improved by these 3rd party developers. Without Chribba and others like him doing what they do best, your game would be a shell of what it is now. I for one am ready to unsub several accounts as soon as this bull crap goes through.
      
      June 16, 2011 at 10:49 pm Reply
idea

there is not a chance in hell that i will read this entier article before replying.. everyone is doing the big companies jobs.. the csm work for free, as soon as you send in a petition explaining a bug you are doing there job.. there is nothing new there. "send in the best slogan and win a trip…" u guys really just realizing this now?

p.s. Wollari rules!

June 16, 2011 at 12:29 pm Reply
1. riverini
  
  "the csm work for free, as soon as you send in a petition explaining a bug you are doing there job" lol, so fucking true… not to mention mass testing…
  
  June 16, 2011 at 12:35 pm Reply
  1. Citizen of Eve
    
    wtf riverini. you're smarter than that!
    
    For a start, bug reporting and mass testing are both optional. Doing so helps enhance YOUR gameplay.
    
    "bug proofing " any app, let alone a game of Eve proportions is extremely cost and time prohibitive. By enlisting your help (read optional) , CCP puts better updates in your hands faster, more often and much more cost-effective.
    
    June 17, 2011 at 2:59 am Reply
    1. riverini
      
      contact me via chat, [email protected] and we'll see who is wrong and who is right.
      
      R
      
      June 17, 2011 at 3:22 am Reply
      1. Citizen of Eve
        
        I am not interested in proving YOU wrong. I am interested in others seeing that you are.
        
        Stop adding to the irrational CCP bashing inherent in this topic. Just like Chribba, who would YOU be if Eve didn't exist?
        
        if you bite the hand that feeds………
        
        June 17, 2011 at 3:38 am
      2. Trapped in O2O
        
        Dunno if you are aware of this, but Chribba would be much richer IRL if it weren't for eve. Do you know how many of the sites and apps we all use to make the game playable were written by him? Quite a few, and hosting all of that has to be fairly expensive. CCP is wrong to for all these people to pay them for the privilege of making eve a game thats even playable. EvE, and hence CCP, would not have survived its first few years without people like him spending their personal time and personal money to make the game playable. Did they have to? No. But that doesn't change the fact that they did it, and in the process turned CCP into the monster it has turned into.
        
        Get over it. As your name says, you are a citizen. Chribba, tho hes too good a person to claim it himself, is one of the aristocrats of eve, and his voice should be respected as such.
        
        I dunno Riverini beyond this one site, which, while I enjoy it, does very little to endorse him beyond showing that he did go out of his way to give us info. Therefore I can't give him the glowing review as a voice to be listened to the way everyone will with Chribba. Sorry River
        
        June 17, 2011 at 9:21 am
      3. riverini
        
        So, basically after being born nude, helpless and unable to provide for myself, I eventually overcame all these dificulties and I did something with my life thanks to Eve…
        
        speak for yourself, I got a life full of past and pending professional achievements ^__^
        
        R
        
        June 17, 2011 at 11:32 pm
    2. -A- Jarlexly
      
      3rd party applications are optional and they are made for improving your game play too, so Riverini is right to say and well said. Think your words twice before you flash to someone.
      
      June 17, 2011 at 12:59 pm Reply
nulk

It's not about the money it's about CCP squeezing an agreement out of the community and by that controlling speech.

June 16, 2011 at 1:00 pm Reply
1. riverini
  
  This is an often overlooked part of this whole issue, by forcing everyone into a license, you have to ACCEPT their dispositions.
  
  June 16, 2011 at 1:09 pm Reply
Seditious Spyke

When Chribba Says No? Eve Says No… cause to be quite fuckign frank, chribba never says no, the man owns a titan just to mine veld. Drops ships for free to make players smile…

If thise goes through i will NOT be playing Eve for very much longer.

June 16, 2011 at 1:07 pm Reply
1. Ozhound
  
  I agree, While I do not develop apps, Chribba hit the nail on the head. Its not about the $99, and it does feel like a slap in the face, I was already contemplating cancelling my modest 4 accounts and this made the decision for me.
  
  June 18, 2011 at 5:50 am Reply
Common Player

I foresee this coming back to bite CCP in the ASS.

They will implement this, and see their player base drop because all their favorite third party systems are off-line now, or being charged for them………

My is questions is, will alliance and corp services that help with communication (ie: forums, and TS) be charged just because they are using eve API to verify accounts?

This should be a good.

June 16, 2011 at 1:32 pm Reply
1. Imigo
  
  That's a very good point. While I would imagine that those systems don't charge their users, the second you start accepting donations for upkeep, you're under the "commercial" license.
  
  June 17, 2011 at 12:03 am Reply
Darius Brinn

I have almost no time to play, but I do browse and read about EvE on my smartphone, or during breaks at work.

Without sites like dotlan, EvE24, Eve Tribune, Battleclinic, EvE-agents or EvE-survival, I surely would NOT be paying for EvE Online. I don't really "play" that much EvE, but I BELONG to the world of New Eden.

And those sites and all that content is crucial to the WHOLE EXPERIENCE. If anything, CCP should be REWARDING those people, not trying to charge them for something that MAKES THEIR GAME A BETTER THING.

June 16, 2011 at 2:16 pm Reply
Pneumon Blaster

You are already Paying for the privilege of doing CCP’s job – if youre joining mass testing – that's ONE BIG LOL for me.

June 16, 2011 at 2:31 pm Reply
Pneumon Blaster

without evemon, eve is shit.

June 16, 2011 at 2:35 pm Reply
Shattershark

"CCP also allows non-commercial apps and services, subject to simple clickwrap agreement substantially similar to the one that is provided to registered fansites. "
Basic reading comprehension fail again? After that article about aurum I'm going to suspect everyone

Maybe I'm missing something (seriously, tl;dr), but to me it seems that either service/app/site is either "free-and-doesn't-need-to-pay" or "not-entirely-free-but-let's-not-mention-that-and-bitch-about-eight-bucks-per-month"

I feel that I may be wrong, but I'm not going to touch that threadnaught with a standard-issue three-feet pole. Shoveling through bittervet RAAAAAAAGE to find 1% of coherent thought is just not fun.

June 16, 2011 at 2:41 pm Reply
1. riverini
  
  Speaking about reading compression you fail to see the real issue behind here, there is no way in hell CCP is going to make any developer's content subject to an EULA, TOS or anything written by them, that's just crossing a line that shouldn't even been looked at.
  
  When you have the time, take a rest and read the post, it's not about money, it's about CCP forcing everyone into their terms, much less requiring them to pay for the "privilege" of fixing/enhancing their product experience.
  
  LoL do you think I could report half the stuff I post here were I under a CCP licence agreement?
  
  Don't believe me? log to any of the eve-o forums and write "kugutsumen" or any of the arbitrarily forbidden words to see how things are shaped under CCP's umbrella.
  
  June 16, 2011 at 3:01 pm Reply
  1. Shattershark
    
    "When you have the time, take a rest and read the post, it's not about money, it's about CCP forcing everyone into their terms."
    
    Having "You are charging people who work for free to make your game better you asshats" in bold right in the beginning is kind of conspicuous.
    
    I agree that possible conflict of EULA/TOS with free speech is not a good thing, but in this case it a) must be discussed with CCP in proper manner without RAAAAAAGE which simply serves to garble the message and b) the article about it shouldn't start with OMG THEY WANT OUR MONEY!!11oneone.
    
    June 16, 2011 at 3:21 pm Reply
    1. riverini
      
      First that's a quote from the community outrage as it's properly credited, also my article it's a wall of text so i sprinkled it with luv from other points of view, For me am more into the EULA/TOS renegating crowd, there is not way in hell CCP is going to dictate how I manage my projects.
      
      June 16, 2011 at 4:22 pm Reply
      1. Shattershark
        
        Ok, I would refrain about discussing creative writing, suffice to say that it's weird to see bolded quote about money after the first paragraph of the article and then find out that it's not about money after all.
        
        Frankly, trying to enforce EULA/TOS on public sites and forums would be a difficult (if not impossible) task for CCP and I don't know why the hell do they want to open that particular can of worms.
        
        On the other hand I see how Russian World of Tanks mod team promptly bans entire player clans if their sites or forums violate ToS concerning nazi propaganda. Word is that they have to, because otherwise law enforcement agencies could press charges against game owners.
        
        June 16, 2011 at 4:59 pm
      2. Citizen of Eve
        
        awww c'mon. forums/discussions etc. cannot be included in ANY licensing agreement **UNLESS they access the Eve servers**.
        
        You don't need a fn license to talk/discuss/flame CCP. This is not a batlle of 1st amendment rights! Exactly what "can of worms" is CCP opening here?
        
        If this were even remotely true, CCP could be banning ppl ingame who bag them on their forums as we speak.
        
        In simple terms:-
        
        1) If YOU make money accessing SOMEONE ELSE'S Intellectual Property YOU should expect to pay for it.
        
        2) FREE license agreements would be restricted by what they DO, not what they SAY.
        
        Where's the debate in that?
        
        June 17, 2011 at 1:21 am
      3. Shattershark
        
        See my other comment. I was under the wrong impression that CCP is going to license sites using their IP and posted comment with relevant quote from devblog once I've noticed the screwup.
        Nothing to argue about, really.
        
        June 17, 2011 at 5:20 am
      4. crazier
        
        So you make some cash fo shattered crystal then? Sounds like it.
        
        June 17, 2011 at 5:27 am
      5. Shattershark
        
        Also, had to read it at EVE-ru to realise that I've missed important part of devblog:
        
        "CCP will license 3rd party developers to create commercial applications and services created using the EVE API, In-Game Browser, Static Data Export, Image Export and Eve Image server."
        
        As far as I can see public forums and news sites have nothing to do with API, special IGB features, or any kind of data export, therefore EVE24, for example, should not be concerned with EULA/TOS unless wording changes. Suddenly Evil Overlord is not so much Evil and not really an Overlord, eh?
        
        June 16, 2011 at 7:21 pm
2. Intuitive individual
  
  You now all realise that Shattershark IS the CCP employee reverini talked with on the phone…
  
  June 22, 2011 at 12:16 pm Reply
  1. Shattershark
    
    You now all realize that someone is an idiot and missed the fact that I'm Russian.
    
    June 24, 2011 at 1:23 pm Reply
sour

will i be charged if i leave a comment about ccps internet spaceships?? :p

June 16, 2011 at 2:55 pm Reply
anatlasgoon

I love how CCP uses the word "service" ad nauseum yet provides no technical support, nor web hosting, nor new/improved development applications for developers who already pay out the ass for these things. Somebody over in Iceland needs to take a step back and realize how badly they're fucking up. The updated DevBlog seems a bit more consolatory, but still, they want something for nothing.

June 16, 2011 at 3:00 pm Reply
WUC

Retards….this has been in planning since b4 the ddos attacks.

CCP has to enter into a formal contract with anyone providing a 3rd party service in order to protect themselves from future legal action.

For instance, Wollari has a case that dotlan enhances eve play, and he should be compensated by ccp.
Sounds dumb, but in some jurisdictions, he would have a case.

Stop your moaning, CCP has a right to protect itself, and you have a right to charge players for your efforts.

June 16, 2011 at 3:26 pm Reply
1. dingdong
  
  All CCP has done so far is put some feelers out to try and gauge the community reaction to an official 3rd party licensing scheme. They've certainly got some work to do, and I think they can make some stronger concessions with the free license, but there is a point to all this. Capsuleer had to fold because they couldn't legally support their product by selling it for profit. A $99 license fee would've changed that, and you could make the case that the author would've made some serious bank from the apple store because of it. I'm hoping that for apps like EVEmon and sites like Dotlan, the license will open up some opportunities for the authors to make some deserved cash, and maybe finally get some developer collaboration/face time.
  
  I understand the backlash, but thus far nothing has really been decided upon. Going forward, CCP needs to legally define it's third-party apps, and it is their right to do so. Calling this a cash grab is a little dramatic, especially because sites like evenews24 will likely only need the free license. And don't go "waaah, EULA, police stattteee" on me, because we haven't really nailed down what exactly this EULA will entail, other than obviously preventing you from linking to RMT sites. I'm absolutely on board with protecting free speech and site autonomy from CCP, but more likely than not, the EULA won't give them the right to moderate your comment threads or silence criticism. If that's not the case, then sure, I have a problem too.
  
  June 17, 2011 at 2:55 am Reply
Shattershark

"Dont mix not-entirely-free with free-but-accepting-donations-if-you-want!!! "

Free, adj. Obtainable without any payment.
There is a difference between a site which doesn't ask for any donations and site which has "DONATE NOW" all over it's main page. Guess someone should ask CCP if and how they view this difference.

"And even if they make more in donations then the maintenance costs, why shouldnt they deserve to get payed by their coding hours?"
Once you start asking for donations you no longer provide service for free. No one says you can't have your profit, but it should be called "for profit", not "for free" and, as someone in comments already noted, it should be framed in legal terms in order to avoid complications. Whether or not it is CCP's intent I cannot say.

"And the EULA/ToS stuff, people dont even start that discussion coz its simply not acceptable!!!"
Note to self: multiple exclamation marks serve as substitute for coherent argument. Neat.

June 16, 2011 at 4:41 pm Reply
1. Tan
  
  'Once you start asking for donations you no longer provide service for free' No the service is still free. Hence no charge. Donations are optional and besides your assuming that any site which asks for donations is going to not only break even but go on to make profit.
  
  June 17, 2011 at 2:29 am Reply
2. crazier
  
  If I can go get a service and donate IF I want to the yes the service is still free. You got some bunk logic son.
  
  June 17, 2011 at 5:25 am Reply
  1. Shattershark
    
    No shit? World of Tanks owners are ought to file for tax deduction since they run a non-profit business according to your logic.
    
    June 17, 2011 at 9:15 am Reply
    1. crazier
      
      Haha thats pathetic and funny. Seriously I'm done arguing with you because you are retarded. World of tanks 'SELLS' premium.
      
      Even still I said nothing about the profit status of the company. If a coder gets 200k in donations you can bet hes paying income tax on that.
      
      Really the main problem is that the internet has fostered little bottom feeder fucks like you. You get some shit business that festers off the scraps of someone else work and you think your a business fucking genius. Naw dude, you slang time codes in a cartel. Your shit will crash in 5 years when no one plays this shit and you will be back working at best buy.
      
      June 17, 2011 at 1:07 pm Reply
      1. Shattershark
        
        "World of tanks 'SELLS' premium. "
        I can get level 10 heavies on basic account, time spent on it being the only real difference. Plus playing on a global map can be a substitute for purchasing gold.
        Every player pays for WoT only if he really wants to.
        
        "If a coder gets 200k in donations you can bet hes paying income tax on that. "
        "If I can go get a service and donate IF I want to the yes the service is still free. "
        Epic.
        
        June 17, 2011 at 1:39 pm
      2. crazier
        
        You forgot to include content in your post. Also, do you know how pathetic it sounds with 30 year old guys use works like "Epic".
        
        If you cannot distinguish between someone who accepts donations for a free product and a studio that develops a game under a free to play – buy premium model then everyone is wasting their time talking to you.
        
        June 17, 2011 at 2:01 pm
      3. crazier
        
        Im going to make it my personal campaign to discourage people from using shattered crystal.
        
        June 17, 2011 at 2:02 pm
      4. Shattershark
        
        If this campaign is going to be as successful as your attempts to guess my age and income sources then SC is safe from any harm.
        Anyway, good luck finding someone who gives a damn about your ad hominems cause I certainly don't.
        
        June 17, 2011 at 2:20 pm
      5. crazier
        
        Ohh we shall see. I hope you enjoyed your shiptopoly bottom feeder.
        
        June 17, 2011 at 2:25 pm
    2. crazier
      
      Seriously. I am laughing my ass of at how stupid your logic is.
      
      June 17, 2011 at 1:08 pm Reply
ze german

for coming to the point where you can see that this is a bad idea you have only to take EVE Mon as an example. EVE without evemon is crap. Here is an idea: Eve mon, kugu, battleclinic, all the app programmers, evenews24, dotlan, all the PI sites, EVERYONE big in the 'out of game' community who serves a purpose to explaining and therefore helping the game should form a 'counter cartel' (CCP BFF would be my name suggestion to put some serious pressure on ccp. if all of those websites go down at the same time, then eve will take a serious hit.

alone you are powerless, thats something that ccp taught us with their game. they created a monster. now lets show them the face of this monster and that they cant survive without it.

seriously ccp, i would love to pay for a iphone app. i would love to pay for dotlan. but your proposal here is shortsightedness at its best. please activate brain before shooting at people in your own fleet, because all of the named above keep repping your ass!

June 16, 2011 at 6:21 pm Reply
CCP Update

Feeback thread discussion CCP Atlas

thank you all for your input so far. Based on your comments, I feel I should step in to clarify a few things and address some concerns.

1) The blog represents the first draft of what our bizdev department is thinking of in terms of the license agreement. We published it to get feedback from you guys. This is not the final word on the matter and we want to build this service up with you so that it's fair and empowers you to build these applications and services which better the game.

2) Regarding this clause: Q: Will services for in-game currency require a commercial license? A: Yes, if you require any sort of payment for your services you will need a commercial license. I've spoken to Biz Dev and this is something that might be revised, possibly to exclude ISK payments. I'll let you know as soon as I know more.

3) This project is not about CCP making money. Whether we charge $100 or $50 or $10 for a commercial license won't make a big difference to our balance sheet. $99 is the lowest that we estimated that we could reasonably go and still justify the cost of the service. If this is too high for app developers, this is something that could possibly be revisited.

4) Nothing is set in stone. We're willing to reconsider anything you deem unfair about the program. Donation and ad supported ventures is a tricky thing to allow without any sort of a commercial license though and that's a legal slippery slope. Whether that license needs to be $99 per year is something we might reconsider.

Please help us by continuing to give constructive feedback into how you want this service to be since our motives are really to empower 3rd party development and not to try to squeeze money out of starving programmers.

Our Biz Dev department will give us some more answers and clarify ambiguity. Rest assured this will change to suit your needs and our aim is to make you want to develop software and services for EVE and not to throw obstacles in your way.

June 16, 2011 at 6:24 pm Reply
1. Rain
  
  "Please help us by continuing to give constructive feedback into how you want this service to be since our motives are really to empower 3rd party development and not to try to squeeze money out of starving programmers."
  
  Sure….
  
  PAY THEM $99 per year for starters.
  
  June 18, 2011 at 10:34 am Reply
cyberbob

simple,. host all 3rd party services from malaysia,.. your trivial interwebby laws mean nothing there!!!

June 16, 2011 at 6:58 pm Reply
unhappyeveplayer

I started playing this game about a year and a half ago and before the last 6 months I loved this game and thought it was the best game ever made. But lately I do have to say the game imo is going to shit. I have not played in weeks due to all the stupid shit ccp has been doing and all the rmt and botting in game. I think its about time to find myself a new favorite game.

June 16, 2011 at 7:16 pm Reply
1. Mintrolio
  
  CONFRIMIGN YOU MUST DO IT
  
  ALSO I DO SAME THINKS. I NOW PLAY MMMORPG CALLE LIFE IT IS SO FULL OF ACTIONS.
  
  ABOUT LIF:
  IT HAF 6.7 BIL (YES BIL) SUBSCRIPERS
  IT HAF PERSISTENT AND SINGLE SHARD WORLD
  IT HAF NO TEST SERVER – YOU LERN HARD OR FAIL HARD
  IT HAF NO MONTHLY FEE
  IT HAF REAL GIRLS
  IT HAF MICROTRANSACTION FOR ANYTHING YOU COULD WANT
  IT HAF NO GTC
  RMT IS LEGAL AND YOU CAN MAK MANY MANY MONEYS
  IT HAF SANDBOX WHAT MAKE EVE SANDBOX LOOK LIKES A TRAY FOR KITTEN LITTER!
  
  ONLINE DOWNSIED TO GAME LIF IS IT HAF VERY VERY POOR COMUNNITY.
  
  ALSO I FIND IT SHAME THAT CCCP DO TRY TO PUNISH THEIR COMUNNITY – THIS IS PROPABLY THE BEST THINGS THEY ACTUALL HAF, BUT THEY FIND IT SO HARD COS THEY CANOT OWN THIS COMUNNITY AND IT IS FREE TO THING FOR ITSELFS.
  
  ALSO CCCP TRY TO MAK COMUNNITY BE CONTROL – LIKE MARXIST GOVERMENT WOULD DO IN GAME CALL LIFE. IN LIFE GAME, COMUNNITY NOT STAND FOR THESE THINKS AND GOVERMENT DO EPIC FAIL!
  
  THAT IS ALLE
  
  KEEP UP THE GOOD POASTING!
  
  June 17, 2011 at 1:56 am Reply
  1. Mintrolio
    
    CONFRIMIGN I ALSO HAF NOT FOUDN GOOD KILLBOARD FOR LIF GAME YET,
    
    PERHAPS WOLLARI COUDL MAK ONE – HE IST VER CLEVER MAN-BOY.
    
    June 17, 2011 at 1:59 am Reply
    1. Ozhound
      
      Can't tell if trolling or very stupid.
      
      June 18, 2011 at 6:19 am Reply
      1. UNIVERSE HATELORD
        
        CAN TELL YOU ARE PRETTY STUPID. HAW HAW.
        
        June 21, 2011 at 2:01 pm
justaguy

I dont know for sure, but sounds like ccp has lost reality anchor.

We all know that most of the ccp crew are copy/paste monkeys, we all know that gaymasters have lost contact with real players years ago, we all know that those who think that they know something in ccp are … jerks (those morons are managers, nuf said) but the sad part is that those few morons onatop of ccp are agreed with all this.

Despite their obvious incompetence and leak of any will to deal with rmt, those naciescumbags in ccp are trying to do what? Put their heads (lulz) in sand, fabricate logs as needed, onesided extend/change eula when needed, sell alota fog/bulshitt and thats it, they hope to survive till dustXYZ

Its time to rip ccp…..

June 16, 2011 at 7:52 pm Reply
1. dingdong
  
  copy/paste monkeys? dude, grow up
  
  June 17, 2011 at 2:36 am Reply
  1. justaguy
    
    Yep, copy/paste monkeys, you know those primates that are smashing on a keyboard and than some uberape posts it on a forum/reply
    
    …and if ur company doesnt like the term, fix it u apes.
    
    June 17, 2011 at 9:58 pm Reply
2. Citizen of Eve
  
  You Sir are a [ fill blank space with and demostrative adjective and an appropriate verb ]
  
  June 17, 2011 at 2:50 am Reply
BntyHunter

Please someone steal the source code, and create a New Eve, a better one and we [the player base] as a whole would roll over to it im sure.

Seriously they have screwed the pooch to many times now….The second a Eve like game comes out, it wont have 8 year old code etc etc they are gonna lose all there clients.

June 16, 2011 at 7:58 pm Reply
1. Anon Shitposter
  
  There is no hope for an Eve-like game. It is unthinkable, that any new game would ever have even slightly as much content. Just imagine how small Eve was when it came out. Even a twice as big game would still be so far from todays Eve that it would be nowhere near Eve-like.
  
  June 16, 2011 at 10:16 pm Reply
  1. Thenam
    
    If a AAA-budget, Eve-like game were developed, it would have far more content than Eve, maybe from the start. These "expansions" that Eve gets are usually a joke. Hope you enjoy your new room and couch in the coming expansion.
    
    June 21, 2011 at 8:38 am Reply
2. dingdong
  
  wtf are you talking about
  
  June 17, 2011 at 2:35 am Reply
Sandarbian

would be nice if people could read….

from the blog:

•Non-commercial websites and apps will now require a (free) license

you do know what 'free' means right?

June 16, 2011 at 8:18 pm Reply
1. anatlasgoon
  
  Free as in freedom, or free as in pie?
  
  June 16, 2011 at 8:48 pm Reply
2. Anon Shitposter
  
  But websites and apps have ads and accept (and get) donations.
  And those are expliciply stated as costing.
  AND it still means, you have to get the licence and accept whatever CCP ties to that. For example not mentioning RMT could be possible.
  
  June 16, 2011 at 10:10 pm Reply
3. sadfs
  
  Still forcing you to agree with everything CCP comes up.
  
  June 16, 2011 at 10:47 pm Reply
BOB

I don't believe that this is a serious attempt to make money from Dev's, i mean $99 a year please. It will however have a derogatory effect on some developers that for example have a donate button and still have to pay the license.

June 16, 2011 at 10:31 pm Reply
Wonder

Maybe it's a way to rein in/control/monitor the BOTTING? Just asking cause I don't know Cr*p about how this stuff works.

If you didn't have a license could they tell if you were accessing API stuff from out of game?

June 16, 2011 at 10:47 pm Reply
1. Citizen of Eve
  
  Won't change botting. Botting uses a "legitimate" Eve client login and then commences to mimic human behaviour by trading/mining/ratting etc. It's why it's so damned hard to detect.
  
  June 17, 2011 at 2:37 am Reply
2. Highborn
  
  This won't do squat to affect botting.
  At all.
  
  June 20, 2011 at 4:26 pm Reply
Peaeyedowl

There really is only one logical answer to the direction CCP is taking here,….SONY has bought a majority share of the conpany.

June 16, 2011 at 11:00 pm Reply
1. riverini
  
  Proof?
  
  June 16, 2011 at 11:05 pm Reply
  1. Horizonist
    
    I think he was being sarcastic
    
    June 17, 2011 at 9:34 am Reply
2. Sikhtar
  
  Actually I think $medley is probably sweating right now for not thinking of this for the SOE games sooner. Yes, not even SOE does something this retarded… yet.
  
  June 17, 2011 at 2:35 pm Reply
Random Asshole

Non-commercial websites and apps will now require a (free) license

June 17, 2011 at 12:37 am Reply
1. Citizen of Eve
  
  ~Only~ websites and apps that use/access Eve servers/IP.
  
  You can write any app you like and host as many websites as you like and charge whatever you like AS LONG AS it doesn't access/use Eve servers/IP.
  
  June 17, 2011 at 1:39 am Reply
Citizen of Eve

Seriously. I read Chribba's raaaage….. If he isn't generating such "awesome f***** income", why be so pissed!? Does he now have to remove the aforementioned "ineffectual" donate buttons?

Cuppla points for Chribba.
1) If you make considerably more than $99 / annum – pay the fee and continue your awesomness.
2) If you aren't, remove the "pay me" linkages and continue your awesomness.

If you're doing it all out the goodness of your heart – as you state – then you have nothing to fear and nothing to complain about. Personally I can see CCP listing you as a ratified developer that will give you even greater kudos and respect. If you're smart, which I assume you are, you dovetail this into your professional career. Pretty cheap advertising for $99 a year.

For some, the complaint seems to be about CCP trying to make money by charging a fee that wouldn't even cover costs. The biggest complaints appear to be from those that make money who are NOT CPP but are happy to use CPP IP to do so….

tl;dr :- Without Eve, who the fuck is Chribba? Think about it.

June 17, 2011 at 2:11 am Reply
1. citizen of dumbass
  
  the donations Chribba gets help cover the real life costs of the products he offers; hosting, bandwidth, design… …insinuating that donate buttons are there to make profit is as misguided as claiming PLEX for Pakistan was about manipulating plex prices in an attempt to increase revenue.
  
  June 17, 2011 at 3:44 am Reply
  1. Citizen of Eve
    
    Misread?
    
    I'm not debating WHY donate buttons are there – he deserves all the cash, love and kudos for his work and apps from everyone that uses them.
    
    What I am debating on is if he *isn't* making $99 then remove them and save himself the pain.
    
    If he *is* making more than $99 then the only question is by how much and is it a "commercial quantity". If donations exceed his costs (as they should be) then he is making money from CCP IP. Period.
    
    As I said, w/o Eve, who would Chribba be?
    
    He has every right to start a fund raiser right now to get 40 people to donate $10 each to cover "the extra CCP cost" for at least 4 years – if CCP actually charge it at all (as has been hinted at).
    
    I'll be the first to donate. Need 39 more.
    
    June 17, 2011 at 4:50 am Reply
    1. Ozhound
      
      I don't know why you keep dropping "w/o Eve, who would Chribba be? " as eve does exist and therefore Chribba does exist, your point is invalid.
      
      The crux of the matter is not the $99, its the "clickwrap agreement" that CCP will make the non-commercial license users bound to. As this hasn't been finalized yet, I think most peoples arguments or concerns are based on speculation. Nothing to see here…. yet.
      
      June 18, 2011 at 6:17 am Reply
      1. readb4commenting
        
        Money aside ( although Chribba specifically complained about that component ) – IF his interests are ~purely altruistic~ then explain how any licence would have any influence on his mechanations with CCP?
        
        The whole concept of "click wrap" as it were, is to qualify and sanction apps with access to CCP servers. I fail to see how this belief arose where CCP has some sort of self-destructive agenda to inhibit the Chribbas of this world and their apps. I think the whole thing has been read and understood incorrectly.
        
        What pisses me off is the fact that Chribba has "spoken" and what he said has polarised negativity about what CCP was obviously aiming for.
        
        CCP is not stupid and the business model suggested here was intended to HELP developers on a (probable) cost-recovery basis.
        
        Hence my point, and I stand by it – his "awesomeness" would NOT be so influential in the commentary if Eve was not here making it so. Eve could and would exist without Chribba. Would Chribba's "awesomeness" exist without Eve?
        
        June 19, 2011 at 4:18 am
      2. fuckin numpty
        
        when they click the agreement saying, "ok i'll pay $99 a year" they will be FORCED to agree to an agreement that prevents them from presenting or creating work that is free from bias and restriction.
        
        That is to say that they will have to accept an EULA like that which we agree to to have the source code of eve in our computers, basically saying that they work for CCP creating tools they couldn't be fucked with creating and have to PAY CCP for the pleasure of working for them. i.e. CCP can't be fucked creating a good reliable map application, so somene created teh joy that is DOTLAN s that we can quickly access data on teh fly without having to wait 5 minutes for the eve client to load a shitty representation that is hard to look at. INSTEAD CCP want to put a man in a station which has absolutely nothing to do with increasing the playablility of the game or improving the gaping holes left in they're programming.
        
        That IS the crux of this isue and THAT is what all the commotion is about.
        
        June 22, 2011 at 12:26 pm
2. numpty morelike
  
  You clearly have no idea who Chribba is or what he has done to enhance and improve the game experience of the people who play, both in and out of the game.
  
  June 20, 2011 at 11:55 pm Reply
dingdong

No, it'd be like Ford suing Turtle Wax because they've put the ford logo all over their product. Ford allows Turtle Wax to do so for a nominal fee, and Turtle Wax can use Ford copyrights wherever they want. And, hell, they get test cars or something. Are you a lawyer? because you sure as hell don't sound like one.

June 17, 2011 at 2:38 am Reply
1. Peaeyedowl
  
  To quote the dingdong from above,
  "For instance, Wollari has a case that dotlan enhances eve play, and he should be compensated by ccp.
  Sounds dumb, but in some jurisdictions, he would have a case."
  
  What are you talking about Wollari does not have the Eve logo all over their site to help sell his product, hell I don't see any Eve logos period. So you are right you do sound dumb.
  
  June 17, 2011 at 4:32 am Reply
antiblob

Your life ends here! And your meaningless existence with it!
(Seymour Flux to CCP)

No EveMon/EveHQ/EFT/insert-random-eve-service-here would be shit. EVE would be shit without them!

June 17, 2011 at 3:21 am Reply
Mordd

By the way its "Intellectual" 3 L's riverini, but I guess if you were an intellectual you would know that already right?

June 17, 2011 at 6:09 am Reply
Mordd

I hate to say it but I cringe reading your communication with CCP, do you not even spell/grammar check formal business proposals? Ah wait but this is just a hobby though right R as you said in reply to me in the Lulzsec thread….. except as I pointed out in reply there you seem to be very business oriented about something that you claim is only a hobby… so which is it R? Is this a hobby? If so then why are you trying to enter into formal business arrangements to earn real money from the site then? Sure to pay the hosting costs of course, but its still just a hobby right? Well maybe when someone does send you some money you can use it to hire another editor, maybe i'll even apply for the job myself

June 17, 2011 at 6:22 am Reply
1. anatlasgoon
  
  "do you not even spell/grammar check formal business proposals?"
  
  You're not exactly Ernest Hemingway either.
  
  June 18, 2011 at 11:43 am Reply
Helgar Himler

Thanks for exposing your amateur negotiation logs as well as your unprofessional butthurt reaction to getting shut down by ccp. I laffed.

June 17, 2011 at 1:33 pm Reply
uglyduck

Holy cow, CCP is about to make the same mistake maybe worse than the ones who ran star wars galaxies five years ago. Subscriptions TANKED because of a very poor decision and disrespect to the customer!
When CCP implements this its subs will tank and even worse its credibility and respect will tank which will ruin future prospects.
OMG history really does repeat itself because of greed and stupidity!!!

June 17, 2011 at 2:48 pm Reply
1. riverini
  
  WoW, just read the article on the Star Wars Galaxy MMORPG on wired, so it is possible for a game to actually go into a deep dive (1 million subs to 10k) bcz of fanrage…
  
  wonder how many of those players migrated to eve?
  
  June 18, 2011 at 12:34 am Reply
  1. Peaeyedowl
    
    Now you see what I was talking about with Sony below, I was there.
    
    June 18, 2011 at 12:53 am Reply
  2. Mith
    
    /raises hand
    
    June 19, 2011 at 3:13 am Reply
News

You all work for CCP, You just don't know it yet.

- CCP, we're better than you.

June 18, 2011 at 10:24 am Reply
Just a Dude

lol CCP!

Let Dotlan, Evemon and EFT alone stop their service and your game will start bleeding customers on a very fast pace….

June 18, 2011 at 11:42 am Reply
readb4commenting

Offended. No. I'm just amazed about the shit put on CCP by people who have absolutely nfi.

Do you actually play Eve?

If YES
i) Is it because it is one of the most complex, broad scoped MMO's ever released?
ii) If it isn't the most complex, broad scoped MMO ever released, and it was produced by copy/paste naciescumbag monkeys, why are you playing it?

If NO
i) why the fuck bother with your rant?

June 19, 2011 at 4:53 am Reply
CCP THE JOKE

In most companies when they decide after many years to start charging for things that up until that point were FREE due to them being used by users/players to help make the original product even more appealing there is something else going on.

Now whether this is CCP's way of trying to help get Iceland out of the shit-hole it's currently got it's self into or whether it's just a last grab to make as much $$$ from a game as possible because there is something the customer base doesn't yet know about that could make subscriptions nose dive I do not know for sure, but I do know that when you now start combining this with the HUGE imbalances, Issues with Lag, The RMT action & side effects, A lack of all round customer service & a product that even after so many years is really still only in a stage of BETA I soon start to wonder whether CCP has it's customer base anywhere in the list of important requirements for the continuation of their business.

I know that in the last 6 months I have seen no less than several hundred people leave the game for better & cheaper entertainment value & with things the way they currently are & there being no apparent movement on doing something serious about the people who seem to be running the RMT, or the apparent side effects of it it wouldn't be a bad bet to say that many many more will join those that have moved on very shortly. (A lot of the people who are leaving are not new players either they are players that have played & been loyal to CCP & EVE for many years just to have them spit in their faces & throw their hands into their pockets)

Maybe CCP wants to move into the console world now & away from the PC gaming community?

June 19, 2011 at 6:51 am Reply
woodztsack

SONY BOUGHT A SHARE, LOOK IT UP !

June 19, 2011 at 6:46 pm Reply
Afr1can

If my wife and friends knew I was paying for shhh only 2 eve accounts.
I do occasional I use plex they would castrate me well the wife certainly would.

If this goes through I will most definitely wont be playing Eve for very much longer assure you.

These so called fan-sites are what stops me from doing a full days work.

CCP I took a month of from your broken game and rest assured I can break my addiction.

June 19, 2011 at 9:28 pm Reply
Chowda

Special people use the word "specially".

Eseriously, the people getting squeezed in this are those who take donations to pay their web bills. Those are the ones who should be mad.

June 20, 2011 at 7:02 pm Reply
UNIVERSE HATELORD

OH GOD ALL OF YOU PEOPLE WHINING MAKES ME SO HARD

In all seriousness, tho, imma gonna drop the troll act now to tell you people something: The license for non-commercial apps will be free. So if you're running some sort of free OOG goodie for the "good of the community" (Although there is no such thing), then guess what, you won't be affected by anything at all. You slap your Official-Eve-License-Plate-Thing onto your service and that's that.

The paid license, well, what the hell do you expect. Didn't that thingie smartphone app die because the developers got greedy and wanted to charge but weren't allowed to because of license issues? Well now you can charge. All CCP wants from you is to pay a price for using their brand. The brand you are now making money off. This actually sounds pretty reasonable to me.

Just admit that this whole threadnought-outrage-whine-thing is just a smokescreen to mask that all of you ""free" service offeres" are in fact not offering because you're such nice guys but because there is some sort of commercial interest behind it, be it IG or OOG.
And seriously 99€/yr is next to nothing compared with what you can make selling your shitty app for a few Euros a piece.

June 21, 2011 at 1:16 pm Reply
1. face in my hand
  
  *facepalm*
  
  Do you have any idea how much it costs in power, ISP charges and other charges related to hosting a server (like basic hack protection) actually are, not to mention having to upgrade server capacity to account for increased traffic. These people are simply saying to ccp that they offer services they work damn hard to maintain (not factoring in the human cost of time spent) a service CCP should have offered on their own, it isnt;'a free game and i pay a damn lot to play this game so ccp need to suck it stop playing the activision "everyone can pay all the time forever card" and realise that they have 50,000 individuals paying for 200,000 accounts which totals to around $2,000,000 (actually a fuck ton more) every MONTH, and they want people who want to FIX they're game to pay and be subject to their terms of service.
  
  June 22, 2011 at 12:33 pm Reply
Greed Is Good: Purportedly leaked internal bulletin shows CCP’s “refreshing” new direction.

[...] That’s up to CCP actually, but it’s a good thing am not bind by a pesky free-license, right? [...]

June 22, 2011 at 8:03 pm
Bismarck

Highlights

Simple process – Sign up on a webpage, get started straight away

Inexpensive – $99 per year, no other fees

Developer-friendly – Very few restrictions

Open-ended – You can charge subscription fees, receive donations, sell your app in an app-store and more

Non-commercial websites and apps will now require a (free) license

dunno gents but uhh…. if i read this right (correct me if i see that wrong): commercial sites have to pay. but then you are allowed to make money with it (selling stuff means somebody pays. otherwise it isnt selling, ya know…or the suscription fees). and the average fan-site has to license as well, but no fee.

so where is the problem? sounds fair so far.

June 24, 2011 at 12:36 pm Reply
My view on the current player protest - DOTLAN :: EveMaps

[...] The Cosmopewlitan – CCP: Celebrating the Creative player and Monetizing from their Apps. [...]

June 26, 2011 at 11:33 pm
Austin John

I hope you all realize that this license allows third part developers to finally MAKE MONEY off of their work. If you don't make money, you DON'T NEED THE LICENSE. In essence, Eve is finally AGREEING TO PAY THESE PEOPLE, not making them pay to work for them. The $99 fee, as they've said, was just to make things legal. My god people, I thought Eve players were smarter than this.

June 28, 2011 at 5:55 pm Reply
Watchful

Maybe Relic Entertainment needs to charge CCP for the use of their intellectual property when CCP borrowed their ship models from Homeworld. For example, the Amarr titan is clearly a Kadeshi mothership.

July 2, 2011 at 6:51 pm Reply
anon

Chribba responce is the TL;Dr

July 2, 2011 at 7:19 pm Reply
adamjamesgray

I agree with Austin John and Chowda. To everyone else: are you the same whiny brats that were rioting in Jita? Jeez, I had no idea the community was so full of greedy, one-sided, thoughtless, selfish idiots.

With this announcement:
-Development gaps that CCP hasn't the time to address (and I don't think anyone would accuse CCP of being lazy or resting on their laurels) get addressed
-Community devs have a stronger, more 'official' role – they become a more closely-knit member of the community
-CCP, for their part, gets to protect their IP in a route that is mainstream and reasonable
-The community gets requested services that increases EVE's awesomeness….

and – oh yeah – it allows 3rd party developers to MAKE MONEY off CCP's IP.

I'd GLADLY pay a small fee to use battleclinic or support Dotlan. I'd certainly pay a buck ninety-nine to buy Evemon or Capsuleer (here's hoping this will breath new life into it), and reward the respective developers for their hard work, dedication, and awesomeness.

I understand that there's a niche of people that aren't making a profit that have bills to pay. But I suspect – hope – that having to pay a fee will weed out all the crap and raise the quality – for example, I'd never pay to read this pish, whiny, article – but I'd probably pay to read real Eve-related journalism. Heck, maybe that's part of CCPs plan.

And a Newsflash for EVENEWS 24 – I've been playing happily since 2005 and have never read an article by you until now – so you might want to review how 'essential' you are to the community. Given the way you shit all over CCP, I'm hardly surprised they aren't interested in working with you.

I'm just so disgusted by the sense of entitlement you all have. EVE is CCP's product, it's in their best interest to make it as awesome as possible, and they go way farther to engage the community than any other MMO I know, and I work in the industry. And yet all you can do is whine for more. What a bunch of children.

If you whiny brats don't like it, don't play the game. I'd be happier knowing you weren't members of my community.

July 3, 2011 at 8:46 am Reply

The Cosmopewlitan – CCP: Celebrating the Creative player and Monetizing from their Apps.

Ramblings of a Madman: CCP, You So Crazy!

The Eve Tribune Presents: Vuk Quest II: Electric Boogaloo.

CCP Announces Third Party Developers “Stimulous Package” – Goes the “Apple Way” for $99 a year of use of Intelectual Property content.

The Intent

You are charging people who work for free to make your game better you asshats

Bitch, Please. rolls-eyes

Paying for the privilege of doing CCP’s job

A Thriving Elite: The GTC Cartel

CCP DOESN’T DEAL WITH AMATEURS that means YOU EN24! How Czech and River pissed CCP.

Does this mean we are all bounds to CCPs rules?

Paving the way for Official paid CCP apps.

Rather than Apple, it’s more like mid-90′s MSFT

It’s a matter of perspective

I don’t like the idea to force people to pay the 99$ license fee if they’re providing a free service to the community

You are mad for having to pay the 100 bucks a year? if not why so jelly?

Send us Intel/Corrections via dropbox or shoot us an e-mail

7926115 Comments2011-06-16+09%3A56%3A34riverini

Leave a Reply Click here to cancel reply.

The Cosmopewlitan – CCP: Celebrating the Creative player and Monetizing from their Apps.

Ramblings of a Madman: CCP, You So Crazy!

The Eve Tribune Presents: Vuk Quest II: Electric Boogaloo.

CCP Announces Third Party Developers “Stimulous Package” – Goes the “Apple Way” for $99 a year of use of Intelectual Property content.

The Intent

You are charging people who work for free to make your game better you asshats

Bitch, Please. *rolls-eyes*

Paying for the privilege of doing CCP’s job

A Thriving Elite: The GTC Cartel

CCP DOESN’T DEAL WITH AMATEURS that means YOU EN24! How Czech and River pissed CCP.

Does this mean we are all bounds to CCPs rules?

Paving the way for Official paid CCP apps.

Rather than Apple, it’s more like mid-90′s MSFT

It’s a matter of perspective

I don’t like the idea to force people to pay the 99$ license fee if they’re providing a free service to the community

You are mad for having to pay the 100 bucks a year? if not why so jelly?

Send us Intel/Corrections via dropbox or shoot us an e-mail

Leave a Reply Click here to cancel reply.

Bitch, Please. rolls-eyes